[Goanet] Thank you, Selma-bai
Dear Frederick-bab, You may or may not have brought up some interesting issues in your fairly lengthy discourse ( which has followed the mailing I sent to Selma )however , I do not think I shouldget any credit for throwing up these interesting issues . If you have a look back at my reply to Selma-bai, ( and usea degree of logic ), you will note that I was not being in any way apologetic for not being a very devout Hindu.All I was trying to say that if the previous posting madeby her was hurtful to someone like myself , it was likelyto cause a much more severe reaction in those who aremore concerned above their religious affiliation than I am. Excuse me for not going into too much more detail withrespect to your very considerable literary effort. Whileit is not easy for me to decipher your no doubt very professional effort, the vague and sweeping remarkslike the one which says that Catholic institutions in Goadisallow the developement of liberal and forward thinkingpersonalities , do make me wonder about which institutionsand ,even , which Goa you are speaking about.In passing, if this is your idea about Catholic schools , youwill be delighted to know that Manohar Parrikar went toLoyola High School in the course of his education..that , my dear friend , is my personal gift to you in your one point mission to whip up more sentiments against the one threat to the current Congress goverment's onepoint mission to destroy Goa . luv and regards,anand ( Dr Anand Virgincar ) Messenger on the move. Text MSN to 63463 now! _ Share what Santa brought you https://www.mycooluncool.com
[Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- Dear Selma-bai, Although you had made a sharp comment about the kars of Goa, I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see below )does raise a few points . Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me and all kars to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians. I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself. In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the one you sign off with ) With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and reproduce verbatim a posting you made on this forum : A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death visits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet 1) This statement is totally out of context to any discussion about Goa or about Goan communities ( It was in relation to the assassination of Benazir Bhutto and her democratic credentials ) 2) Even after repeated perusal, I cannot find any humorous and/or satirical element in th posting. 3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God. I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion. BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME AND HURT A LOT 4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth ( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back what was posted because this could well be termed as an incitation for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples ) To,conclude on a similar note as your letter below, dear Selma-bai, there are many things whch make us fundamentally human...one of the most important though, is the way we interact with each other in our speech,writing,actions and even thoughts. I hope you, the moderators and owners of Goanet ( who I am surprised, if not shocked, let the above posting through ) and the readers can now decide whether such rheotoric is justified and/or proves that we are fundamentally good human beings. luv and regards, anand ( Dr Anand Virgncar ) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:54:10 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sorry, Dr Virgincar! and being human /to Chari --- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- --- Kamalaksh Chari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for not supporting fellow Goan and praising mistakes done by Non-Goans. Keep it up.Regards,Kamalaksh Oh dearie me! There's a common misconception in India, that it is Catholic Goans who feel a cultural dissonance with the rest of India. Reading Rajan's recent call for autonomy, the rabid use of the the word ghantis by the BJP coterie, the calls for Ghanti go home, and the venom with which RNK has been attacked for being a madrassi trying to tell Goans about Goenkarponn, that misconception has been shattered, alongwith several other misconceptions such as Goa is the epitome of cultural and religious tolerance. Whatever cultural dissonance Goan Catholics may feel in heartland India, has been long mitigated by having
Re: [Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- Anand You took up this thread at the wrong end. I think the subject under discussion was indeed about communalism in which we all took part thoughout last year (I have only been a member of Goanet for a year). Selma if anything is one of the least people to consider as a hate-monger on this forum. I notice that there are times when Selma will dig poke to get a reaction from some posters who are continually brash on issues, this is not meant in the way this comes over to you. Reading her post that you have subject lined in your post does come across as a rebel rouser but believe me she is far from that. Some of her posts are meant to be tongue in cheek remarks on subjects as diverse as those discussed here. Please do not take offence, nor feel hurt when you find something in you inbox from Selma. Last year I regarded her as one of the top ten posters who will I will read first before any other, in case I do not have time to go through all 50 to 80 emails in my inbox, not to mention other private emails which number about the same. I think you will find that if you go back a year and slowly go through the archives you will find the thread where Selma's opinions may well ring true, if only sometimes provocative to the point of putting a smile on your face. Not everything is as it should be on Goanet, we all get our posts rigorously checked by the moderators sometimes we are all annoyed when a certain post you have sent to Goanet, is rejected. Its either because it was getting boring (subject discussed for too long), or the thread has gone too far to be almost obscure. I have read some posts in the past years that I would have liked to have strung up the author by the ankles left dangling over the Mandovi, but everyone has a right to an opinion if expressed on this forum, we can then deal with them individually. But welcome in any case, we can see you are as sensitive as the rest of us, when it comes to certain issues so dont lose this gut feeling it's what makes contributions to this forum so genuine, albeit this time perhaps you may have felt something was wrong, it really was not I think meant to be so hurtful, but I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it. Oh by the way, I too was in LHS in the late 1950's until time to leave Goa, in 1961, as so many others on this forum have either attended there or been associated with this school. I hope to return end of the year, the Gods willing. Best wishes to you. John Monteiro --- anand virgincar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- Dear Selma-bai, Although you had made a sharp comment about the kars of Goa, I had resisted replying to you as I felt I would not be adding in any way to the discusion. However, your follow up to the thread (see below )does raise a few points . Before we proceed,however,let me thank you for your advice to me and all kars to learn from the liberal and broad minded South Indians. I can assure you that I am willing to learn from any sensible person wherever they come from the world. I have,however,found many people with the characteristics you describe above in Goa itself. In fact, I owe a lot to a wonderful lady called Carvalho who was one of my first teachers in Loyola High School, Margao ( and unlike your distaste for my surname,I have tremendous respect for the one you sign off with ) With respect to your mail below, I note the strong plea you make towards religious and cultural harmony.I shall now rewind back and reproduce verbatim a posting you made on this forum : A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! There is a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they are armed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Death
[Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai - to Anand
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- Selma said says Anand: A similar fate awaits Goan Catholics in Goa,I am sure of it ! Thereis a whole generation of young Goan Hindus being systemetically trained to hate Christians.Their cadres are organised and they arearmed.Voices like Gadgil and Pravin will be whispers or perhaps even whimpers in the dust left behind.I can only wish the Angel of Deathvisits me before I am visited by the likes of some who frequent Goanet And, Anand says: BUT...WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE HURT ME AND HURT A LOT4) As far as I am aware, what you say above is a blatant untruth( and I hope you and the moderators had evidence to back whatwas posted because this could well be termed as an incitation for fuelling communal tension between Goan peoples ) ** Reply: I fully support what Selma wrote. The Selma's text that you reproduced. I don't see her pointing a finger at the 'cars' or 'kars' of Goa who have been to Catholic schools in Goa but the 90% of the BJP/RSS supporters in Goa who have not been humanly educated. And, the Porrikars who have been educated by the catholic system are not doing Goans any favour by sitting on the fence. For you to take a personal hurt for what she said determines that you are one of the members of the RSS Elite Group who fund the training of these young vulnerable youths (non don boscos) to do the dirty work for you, while you write sweet sacrosanct letters to avoid detection and throw us off the scent. There is no smoke without fire, and there is evidence that during the election Porrikar brought BJP/RSS thugs from outside to create trouble in Goa. THERE IS EVIDENCE. Go back to Goanet archives and you will find it there. ED.
Re: [Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai - to Anand
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- --- Edward Desilva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see her pointing a finger at the 'cars' or 'kars' of Goa who have been to Catholic schools in Goa but the 90% of the BJP/RSS supporters in Goa who have not been humanly educated. What percentage of the Goan population does this amount to? How many of these people are Hindus, Christians and Muslims? It would also be nice to know what is meant by being humanly educated. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- Dr Anand's posts raise interesting issues On 26/01/2008, anand virgincar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3) Now,although born into that religion , I am not a terribly devout Hindu. I enjoy my Pork Sorpotel and Beef Vindaloo and do not necessarily picture a Hindu deity in my mind when I pray to God. How is your religious beliefs relevant here? Should you at all come across as apologetic about being a terribly devout Hindu? In any case, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Hinduism is primarily about dietary habits and such superficialities. In fact, I am suspicious about people who claim they are not religious and yet show a very high intolerant streak towards The Other. For that matter, I would be far happier to deal with a religious man (of any religion) who has tolerance to someone who subscribes to a different religious ideology. Some examples: Gandhi was a very religious man, but his religion never came in the way of him building bridges with the Indian Muslim and doing his best to understand the latter. Jinnah and Advani both term themselves non-religious, and we know the levels of their intolerance/communalism. Someone might call this nationalism, but I wouldn't! Others who were not very religious were very intolerant too. Adolf Hitler, while getting the support of the hierarchy of the Church, wasn't a very religious man personally, and perhaps this allowed him to slaughter millions of Jews without too much of a problem of conscience. Being religious is not a negative thing in itself. It depends on whether those views help one to be a better person or otherwise. I have nothing against the followers of any religion; I have everything against ideologies of hate that (mis)use religion for political purposes, and threaten to create volcanoes of bitterness while doing so. Whichever religion these base their politics on (and we know, from history, that no religion has a monopoly over bigotry... every religion and non-religious ideology has been used, misused and abused). I have been to a Jesuit school ( as Cedrico-bab will confirm ), my daughters go to a Catholic school in the UK out of choice and I have by far more Christian friends than Hindus.I am vehemently against bigotry and violence in the name of any religion. The first part of the above statement reminds me of another famous statement by L K Advani. When visiting Goa once, he pompously declared, I learnt my lessons of tolerance at St Patrick's (the famous school) in Karachi. He said this at one of the functions at Agnelganv, Verna, if I recall right. Three months later, he presided over the demolition of the Babri Masjid at Ayodhya! Which brings me to a related point... at the Goanetters meet, I was a little surprised to learn that Rajan Parrikar was a student of Don Bosco's Panjim. And a couple of years earlier, I was equally surprised to learn that Manohar Parrikar had been an alumni of St Xavier's Mapusa. So, what's it in the Catholic institutions that disallows them from creating more liberal and forward-looking people, specially in a place like Goa? (It might work differently in other parts of India, as my friend Rahul Shrivastava was arguing the other day.) Till I was about 17 myself, I used to be fairly bigoted in my worldview. Perhaps I should not blame the institutions I studied in, but that's how it was. I think Catholic institutions in Goa, with their emphasis on discipline and order, could be creating a mind-set that is suited to the 18th century, not the 21st. Some of our educationists took pride in adopting near-Fascist approaches, and themselves shared a rather conservative approach that carried traces of a hangover from colonial times (which lasted as early as till the early 1960s in Goa!) Goa's Catholic institutions (specially the better-off ones) were arrogant enough to create enclaves where the non-Catholics (as they were condescendingly referred to) were probably treated like the second-rate citizens that the Nazis or the Hindutva lobby would like others to become in their scheme of things. It's wholly another matter that the boot is on the other foot today, After the 1991 'medium of instruction' policies put in place by Shashikala Kakodkar and the Alemao-Barbosa PDF government, the Catholic middle classes have amputated themselves from Catholic-schools, opening up the latter to a wider base of students, thus making them more reflective of the demographic mix of Goa (including migrant kids of the
Re: [Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai - to Anand
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Symposium on Pre-Primary Primary School Education Primary School Students Chess Tournament More information at: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-January/068222.html --- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:45:27 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Thank you,Selma-bai - to Anand It would also be nice to know what is meant by being humanly educated. Cheers, Santosh Perhaps, Eddie means 'humanely'? AT _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
