Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of
ArwinMesquita wrote; (1) I understand that you respect people's views based in Goa who are campaiging for Goa's Crtical issues like Identity, Mega-Project Menace, Destructive Development Migrant Control etc; as your premise that words would carry weight if people were based in Goa. Please confirm Mervyn. Arwin, I would first suggest that you take the time to properly note down your queries. The above paragraph of yours is difficult to read. However, if I have understood you correctly, yes, I will reiterate that I respect the views of anyone in Goa dealing with the issues there. (2) Also please can you advise me on you list of what you think Pleasant Occupations; perhaps you can convince all the ignorants out there to follow the same. Again, your sentence construction is atrocious. To answer your question though, pleasant occupations are those which the worker enjoys doing while earning a remuneration that allows for savings. As for your last suggestion, I can assure you that there are more than a few people who are happy today because they understood the reason why and and bought some gold at my urging. Let me assure you that I am not a missionary, I do not have any compulsion to convince all the 'ignorants,' as you call them, to do the same. Mervyn1404Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Marshal wrote: Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries in the world have the highest number of psychiatric cases. Comment: Marshall, we do not need to support our case on the number of psychiatric cases in USA and Canada. All we need to do is measure the Goan prosperity after transition from farming to white collar and foreign jobs. Goa has now been declared the diabetes capital of India. We have doctors and clinics flourishing at every nook and corner of the State. Even our government hospitals are now being turned into private super speciality hospitals. The pharmaceutical campanies are thriving. It is not uncommon to find a Goan with a by-pass or stent or pace maker. Leave aside the cholestrol affected Goan trying to desperately fight the condition by spending thousands in the gym. Farming brings you poverty but economic prosperity brings even the cardio-vascular surgeon to your doorstep, leave aside the bank manager from the neighbouring State. -soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Marshal, just because Indian society frowns upon mental illness and keeps it behind the closet and just because the medical institutions do not have the resources to properly diagnose mental illness, does not mean that there is less of it there! Soter, it is not economic prosperity that is leading to the surge in diabetes and cardio-vascular issues, but rather ignorance about diet and health. Yet another misdiagnosis by Soter, who seems to be advocating a return to an age of poverty and ignorance instead of affluence and enlightenment. Marlon From: soter so...@bsnl.in Marshal wrote: Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries in the world have the highest number of psychiatric cases. Comment: Marshall, we do not need to support our case on the number of psychiatric cases in USA and Canada. All we need to do is measure the Goan prosperity after transition from farming to white collar and foreign jobs. Goa has now been declared the diabetes capital of India. We have doctors and clinics flourishing at every nook and corner of the State. Even our government hospitals are now being turned into private super speciality hospitals. The pharmaceutical campanies are thriving. It is not uncommon to find a Goan with a by-pass or stent or pace maker. Leave aside the cholestrol affected Goan trying to desperately fight the condition by spending thousands in the gym. Farming brings you poverty but economic prosperity brings even the cardio-vascular surgeon to your doorstep, leave aside the bank manager from the neighbouring State. -soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
What Soter says about prices of produce is correct. But is it not the unchecked powers of the government that is responsible for this? It works both ways - sometimes in favor of the farmers and sometimes in favor of the consumers. When the government imposes price controls or bans exports, the farmer cannot get the market price for his produce. When the government subsidies water usage for the farmer (mostly ground water), it encourages waste and a receding water table. Ditto for fertilizers, diesel fuel, electricity . What does not change however, is regardless of whether the government giveth or taketh, it always gets its cut. Unfortunately, leftists like Soter believe that the government is the solution, when it is in fact the main problem. As far as mechanization, it has been already stated that this has not been implemented very successfully thanks to farm sizes being relatively small in Goa. Marlon From: soter so...@bsnl.in Mervyn wrote: As a former farm labourer, I can assure all here that farm work is back breaking and the sure path to poverty. Real economic progress comes from industrialisation. Green/golden rice fields should remain only in the realms of nostalgics and dreamers. comment: This is typical 'town boy' argument as Pinheiro has rightly labelled it in one of his posts. If it is cheap labour that was the problem then the machines have now been put into operation in several areas. This should fix the problem if it is so simple. Mervyn acknowledges that farm work is back breaking but no sooner the onions and potato prices increase, we have the 'town boys' screaming against price rice urging government to put curbs on exports and so on. Farming is back breaking for those who become habitual with living on other people's so to say blood and sweat. While we have a fast growing tribe of blood sucker 'town boys' who sell their services and skills to the highest bidder in the inudstrialised market, when it comes to agricultural produce this very 'town boy' wants cheap labour and his vegetables and milk at a throw away price. For his own rare product, he will keep a high price but when it comes to buying his food the same parameters will never be acceptable to 'Town boys'. This is the hypocrisy of an urbanised industrial economy and its exploitative mindsets. -Soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Marlon wrote: Soter, it is not economic prosperity that is leading to the surge in diabetes and cardio-vascular issues, but rather ignorance about diet and health. Yet another misdiagnosis by Soter, who seems to be advocating a return to an age of poverty and ignorance instead of affluence and enlightenment. Comment: So all those experts who dub diabetes as a disease of life style are fools. It is this affliction with Marlon's so found affluence and enlightenment from a market driven economy that ensures the prosperity of diabetes and other chronic ailments. May the tribe of Marlon increase and may the medical fraternity prosper. Poor are the those who have forgotten their past and ignorant are those who fail to understand the truths of the ages. -Soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Marlon wrote: What Soter says about prices of produce is correct. But is it not the unchecked powers of the government that is responsible for this? It works both ways - sometimes in favor of the farmers and sometimes in favor of the consumers. When the government imposes price controls or bans exports, the farmer cannot get the market price for his produce. When the government subsidies water usage for the farmer (mostly ground water), it encourages waste and a receding water table. Ditto for fertilizers, diesel fuel, electricity . What does not change however, is regardless of whether the government giveth or taketh, it always gets its cut. Unfortunately, leftists like Soter believe that the government is the solution, when it is in fact the main problem. As far as mechanization, it has been already stated that this has not been implemented very successfully thanks to farm sizes being relatively small in Goa. Comment: Soter believes that the government is solution? Marlon fortunately is focussing only on my left hand. Thank God for once someone is ascribing a pro-government colour to my opinions and needs to convey this to Digu bab. Now marlon attributes non-implementation of mechanisation to farm sizes. Are xannea, Goa's agricultural lands have a varied soil strata and therefore what works in Ker and Morods will not work in khazans and vice versa. Not that gadgets are not available but have to be imported and therefore costly. Government of Goa has not invested enough in research on low cost tools and equipment for agriculture. We depend on Kerala for its innovations. Appears that some are raising points just to pass their time. So I will not repsond after this on any of this rubbish. Goa's young enlightened tribe is at its peak. -Soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of
ArwinMesquita wrote: If you stop looking at all CANT DO's and look at CAN DO's; instead of packing your bags and running away, perhaps we can stop the permanent migration of Goans from Goa. Arwin, Your words would carry some weight if you were based in Goa. But you are not. Yet you want to decide what the youth there should be doing. This is the same fallacy as those who believe that growing rice and vegetables in Goa is a pleasant occupation. Mervyn1395Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of
Mervyn With ref to you comments below (1) I understand that you respect people's views based in Goa who are campaiging for Goa's Crtical issues like Identity, Mega-Project Menace, Destructive Development Migrant Control etc; as your premise that words would carry weight if people were based in Goa. Please confirm Mervyn. (2) Also please can you advise me on you list of what you think Pleasant Occupations; perhaps you can convince all the ignorants out there to follow the same. Arwin Message: 10 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of Message-ID: 556407.47934...@web130124.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ArwinMesquita wrote: If you stop looking at all CANT DO's and look at CAN DO's; instead of packing your bags and running away, perhaps we can stop the permanent migration of Goans from Goa. Arwin, Your words would carry some weight if you were based in Goa. But you are not. Yet you want to decide what the youth there should be doing. This is the same fallacy as those who believe that growing rice and vegetables in Goa is a pleasant occupation. Mervyn1395Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields due to lack of manual labor
Vivian A. DSouza wrote: Merwyn says that farming is for those with little or no education. how little does he know ! Farming today is becoming hi-tech. The agricultural bounty produced on US and Canadian farms today are by the new generation of tech savyfamers who depend on the internet to decide what and when to sow their crops, and sometimes what crops to grow depending on market conditions (price trends). These farmers are linked to Agricultural Extension officials, who provide invaluable guidance. - BwanaD'souza, Let me try and explain how large scale farming works in N. America today. Multi-billion companies provide farmers with seeds and a fixed price contract for the crop produced from those seeds. So regardless of whether there is a bumper crop or not, the farmer is assured of a fixed price for his output. This may seem like a rosy scenario but there is one problem. When there is sever drought or flooding, the farmer has no income and still has to pay the agricultural co for the seeds. Then there are expenses for fertilizers, fuel etc. Two successive years of low crops often results in the farmer being unable to pay back his loans for the seeds and the bank calling in the mortgage on the farm. The farmer then loses his assets and heads to town where the only job he can get is flipping burgers. Commercial farmers do have one important ally though. In rural communities, they vote in block for the politician that promises them the most govt subsidies. For example, the US govt provides farmers a tax refund on the diesel they purchases for the agricultural machines. I find this disgusting as it gives the US farmer a unfair advantage over his competitor in say, India. Here in Canada, the luckier farmers have formed co-operatives which also receive subsidies on fertilizers, marketing etc. The US farmers cry foul and unfair trade when the Canadian subsidies are greater than those in the US. Lastly, farming is an activity that depends on the blessings of the gods. When the gods are unkind, the weather acts to defeat all the labours of the farmer. In addition, the gods can also send locusts and other creations to destroy crops just before they are harvested. I still maintain that anyone who is still engaged in hunting, gathering or farming is doing so because he is either not capable of or has not been given the chance of doing something else. Mervyn1404Lobo PS 1: The seeds provided by the multi-billion companies are phenomenally good. They produce high yielding crops regardless of whether there are extremely dry conditions, freezing weather or excessive rains. The seeds are also genetically modified to resist know strains of crop fungus. There was a time when one could make a lot of money betting on the futures markets whenever there were vulgarities in the weather. The new seeds are so adaptable that crop expectations are usually constant/reliable now. The people making real money on the price of commodities today are the speculators, not the farmers. The main reason commodity prices are going up is because the US dollar is depreciating and commodity prices are quoted in US dollars. PS 2.I fully agree with the rest of your points.
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost II
soter wrote: I think you are just passing your time now. Now you embark upon comparing a youth in Canada with that in Goa. Is that a fair parallel you are trying to draw? Yes, the youth in Goa wants to sell his services to the highest bidder and today is not restricted to the highest bidder in Goa. If you want that youth to remain in Goa, you better open your eyes to what is available to him/her. The least thing s/he would want to develop is farming skills which would mean s/he retains skills that would sustain the youth at poverty levels both in and outside Goa. Someone sitting in Canada is not in a position to judge our level of contentment and progress. Would you call farmers in Haryana, and Punjab poor? If at all they have been reduced to poverty it is the western world's introduction of biotechnologically modified seed and the whole lot of fertilizers and pesticides dumped on developing countries. India's 'geen revolution' based on western agricultural sciences was the beginning of disaster. I spent the last week in N. India. The poverty there is sickening. Peasants and farmers are walking around like living skeletons, looking for work. I am sorry, as you say we live in different worlds and we are happy in our world. We do not measure our progress in dollars and pounds. Money is not everything for us. I get it. You go to work for altruistic reasons. So, I close this topic here as we have better things to do. For a moment there I was unsure if you had any points to defend. I wish you luck on your better things. Mervyn1408Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of
Mervyn If you stop looking at all CANT DO's and look at CAN DO's; instead of packing your bags and running away, perhaps we can stop the permanent migration of Goans from Goa. Arwin From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca To: soter so...@bsnl.in, Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Subject: Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low costII Message-ID: 145873.51342...@web130109.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii soter wrote: I think you are just passing your time now. Now you embark upon comparing a youth in Canada with that in Goa. Is that a fair parallel you are trying to draw? Yes, the youth in Goa wants to sell his services to the highest bidder and today is not restricted to the highest bidder in Goa. If you want that youth to remain in Goa, you better open your eyes to what is available to him/her. The least thing s/he would want to develop is farming skills which would mean s/he retains skills that would sustain the youth at poverty levels both in and outside Goa. -- Please post your comments on my Blog: http://goanidentity.blogspot.com/ Please also see below: 1. Benaulim Village Action Committee: http://www.bvacbenaulim.blogspot.com/ 2. Rape of Goa : http://www.parrikar.com/blog/the-rape-of-goa/ 3. MAND - an adivasi-rights resource centre : http://mandgoa.blogspot.com/ 4. EVERY GOAN SHOULD SEE THIS VIDEO: http://infochangeindia.org/Infochange-documentary.html 5. Goa's Identity Movement group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com//#/group.php?gid=193497031686 6. Official Government Site NRI Office (GOA): http://www.globalgoans.org.in/
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Marshall Mendonza wrote: Incidentally, the USA and Canada among the most affluent countries in the world have the highest number of psychiatric cases. Marshall, I this part of the belief system or do you have the evidence to support your statement? Mervyn1409Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
soter wrote: If it is cheap labour that was the problem then the machines have now been put into operation in several areas. This should fix the problem if it is so simple. Mervyn acknowledges that farm work is back breaking but no sooner the onions and potato prices increase, we have the 'town boys' screaming against price rice urging government to put curbs on exports and so on. Farming is back breaking for those who become habitual with living on other people's so to say blood and sweat. While we have a fast growing tribe of blood sucker 'town boys' who sell their services and skills to the highest bidder in the inudstrialised market, when it comes to agricultural produce this very 'town boy' wants cheap labour and his vegetables and milk at a throw away price. For his own rare product, he will keep a high price but when it comes to buying his food the same parameters will never be acceptable to 'Town boys'. This is the hypocrisy of an urbanised industrial economy and its exploitative mindsets. Soter, I grew up in Africa. Govts there kept the prices of agricultural products, both food and cash crops, under tight control. The IMF and World Bank complained for decades that the African farmer had to sell his crop for pittance to the town dwellers. Here in N. America, it is commodity traders who decide the price of every thing from oil to chocolate. The price is decided on supply and demand. There is no trading house or cabal of trading houses that can set the price of any commodity as competitors are just waiting to find faults in pricing and severely punish those who have made the wrong bet. Again, the farmer has little or no control on what he gets paid for this efforts. Now let me try and make my point as clear as I can. Hunting, gathering and farming are occupations for those with little or no education. Those who have to make their living from these activities, are in economic hardships. Those who have moved away from these activities have a better chance of economic prosperity. The bottom line is that I have yet to see an economy that is prospering because of its great agricultural policy. Eat from the tree of knowledge. Else you will remain dependent on the whims of others for your survival. Mervyn1389Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Mervyn wrote: Now let me try and make my point as clear as I can. Hunting, gathering and farming are occupations for those with little or no education. Those who have to make their living from these activities, are in economic hardships. Those who have moved away from these activities have a better chance of economic prosperity. The bottom line is that I have yet to see an economy that is prospering because of its great agricultural policy. Comment: Jumbo Bwana. I am really ashamed to read such claims from a someone who grew up in Africa. It is my childhood in Africa and particularly the taste of kitchen gardening in my school curriculam there that gave me my first taste for the subject and my deep love for nature. Leave aside my great days thereafter in Goa with my grandmother who cultivated a cart load of onions and the famous Aldona chillies besides paddy and nachni and other vegetables. I have never witnessed any poverty. Do labour toiling in factories not experience hardship? Hiware Bazar in Ahmednagar district is one village which is 100% agriculture had as many as 50 millionaires 2 years ago. A village which receives just 2 inches of rainfall per annum and was in abject poverty and drunkenness 15 years ago is today in the news as the one of the most progressive village in Maharashtra. Every famuily has a monthly saving of Rs. 5000. So what are you talking about? Do you want more stories from India? I know a woman from Ponda taluka who just makes a living by growing 'Zaieo' flowers and vegetables and has an annual income of around 1 lakh. She has educated 3 children who have also graduated but continue to help her. I know a farmer in Mapusa whose 2 sons have graduated and continue in farming and are among the progressive farmers leading the farmers movement . I just cannot understand from where you have gathered this idea that agriculture spells poverty. Which economy and agricultural policy are you talking about? -soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields due to lack of manual labor
Merwyn says that farming is for those with little or no education. how little does he know ! Farming today is becoming hi-tech. The agricultural bounty produced on US and Canadian farms today are by the new generation of tech savy famers who depend on the internet to decide what and when to sow their crops, and sometimes what crops to grow depending on market conditions (price trends). These farmers are linked to Agricultural Extension officials, who provide invaluable guidance. If everyone is educated, as the trend is nowadays, and nobody goes into farming, all we will grow is concrete jungles. What will we eat - Concrete ?? Goa is yet to catch up with the rest of the world and with the tech savy farmers of Punjab here in India. Unfortunately the agricultural model in Goa is designed for farmers with small plots where the entire family is involved in growing and harvesting their crops for the coming year. With the dearth of labor, and the aging of the old-time farmers increasingly our fields here in Goa are going fallow. Unless someone with vision allows the consolidation of fields by corporates or farmers with the means to bring in large agricultural combine machinery to mechanize our farming, and harvest the crops, we will continue to see a decline in Goa's agriculture. Behind my residence in Goa is a large field, with sections (shirs) owned by at least 30 odd owners, none of who cultivate the fields. I would have loved to purchase a field to grow my own rice and vegetables. Since I am not an Indian national, I am prohibited by law from owning agricultural property. This is another obstacle in developing India's vast agricultural potential. Again this is myopic vision by India's political leaders. Someone has to grow food to feed the rest of us. Growing crops on small plots of land is no longer financially viable. A complete re-look and re-vamp of India's Agricultural policies are the need of the hour. And yes, we need educated farmers. linked to the world wide web, to discern weather patterns,and who can get their soil tested to decide what fertilizer nutrients need to be added to the soil to maximize their output. In short we need a new Green revolution. From my armchair - An American bhatcar in Goa.
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
soter wrote: I know a woman from Pondataluka who just makes a living by growing 'Zaieo' flowers and vegetables and has an annual income of around 1 lakh. She has educated 3 children who have also graduated but continue to help her. I know a farmer in Mapusa whose 2 sons have graduated and continue in farming and are among the progressive farmers leading the farmers movement . I just cannot understand from where you have gathered this idea that agriculture spells poverty. Which economy and agricultural policy are you talking about? -- -soter, We live on the same planet but in different worlds. Here in Canada, a teenager, working at his first job, can earn 1 lakh rupees PER MONTH. That kind of income would still leave him at poverty levels. Any farmer with an ANNUAL income of 1 lakh rupees can only be living a life of sustenance. For economic progress, one needs savings. To answer your last question, I am talking about the agriculture policy of any country or economy. All I ask is you to show me an economy that is progressing because of its great agricultural policy. Mervyn1395Lobo
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Mervyn wrote: Here in Canada, a teenager, working at his first job, can earn 1 lakh rupees PER MONTH. That kind of income would still leave him at poverty levels. Any farmer with an ANNUAL income of 1 lakh rupees can only be living a life of sustenance. For economic progress, one needs savings. Comment: I think you are just passing your time now. Now you embark upon comparing a youth in Canada with that in Goa. Is that a fair parallel you are trying to draw? Someone sitting in Canada is not in a position to judge our level of contentment and progress. Would you call farmers in Haryana, and Punjab poor? If at all they have been reduced to poverty it is the western world's introduction of biotechnologically modified seed and the whole lot of fertilizers and pesticides dumped on developing countries. India's 'geen revolution' based on western agricultural sciences was the beginning of disaster. I am sorry, as you say we live in different worlds and we are happy in our world. We do not measure our progress in dollars and pounds. Money is not everything for us. So, I close this topic here as we have better things to do. Soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
pinheiro wrote: Why United States the so-called free market economy powerhouse/the world superpower gives subsidies to its farmers? Are these subsidies found/grown in US farms too? http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=0 --- Folks, It is not only the US that gives subsidies to its farmers. Japan does the same for its rice growers and nearly every country in the EU has large subsidy programs for their farmers. The bottom line is that because of the subsidies, it becomes almost impossible for a farmer in the developing world, who earns $4 A DAY, to compete against his counterpart from the developed world where the minimum wage for farm hands is $4 PER HOUR. As for Goa's fields, I recently spoke to some land owners in my ancestral village. They have been unable to cultivated their rice fields for a number of years now. Their explanation is always the same. There is a sever shortage of labour as no one wants to work in the fields after they are educated. As a former farm labourer, I can assure all here that farm work is back breaking and the sure path to poverty. Real economic progress comes from industrialisation. Green/golden rice fields should remain only in the realms of nostalgics and dreamers. Lastly, the economies of India and China remained stagnant when the central planers focused on the activities of peasants and farmers. Thankfully those in power today, in both countries, are directing their energies into sectors other than agriculture. Mervyn1389Lobo .
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Mervyn wrote: As a former farm labourer, I can assure all here that farm work is back breaking and the sure path to poverty. Real economic progress comes from industrialisation. Green/golden rice fields should remain only in the realms of nostalgics and dreamers. comment: This is typical 'town boy' argument as Pinheiro has rightly labelled it in one of his posts. If it is cheap labour that was the problem then the machines have now been put into operation in several areas. This should fix the problem if it is so simple. Mervyn acknowledges that farm work is back breaking but no sooner the onions and potato prices increase, we have the 'town boys' screaming against price rice urging government to put curbs on exports and so on. Farming is back breaking for those who become habitual with living on other people's so to say blood and sweat. While we have a fast growing tribe of blood sucker 'town boys' who sell their services and skills to the highest bidder in the inudstrialised market, when it comes to agricultural produce this very 'town boy' wants cheap labour and his vegetables and milk at a throw away price. For his own rare product, he will keep a high price but when it comes to buying his food the same parameters will never be acceptable to 'Town boys'. This is the hypocrisy of an urbanised industrial economy and its exploitative mindsets. -Soter
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields
To Goanet - In 2008 the government of Goa had invited people into the Assembly to come and express their views on various policy matters. I had made my presentation to the panel (of MLAs, Directors etc). Expectedly it was a dog pony show. Nothing every would come out of it. I recall requesting a through review of the agricultural policy at the time (even though the session was not about agriculture per se, I related it to labour etc - I don't remember the details). When I pointed out how northeastern Goa (still rural) should not exploited for Mopa, there was visible unease on the face of the MLA of that region (Laxmikant Parsekar). At any rate, the document of the session is here - http://goavidhansabha.gov.in/uploads/docs/466_ff_1ST%20INDLABTOR.pdf (Attendees are mentioned on pages 4/5) Regards, r
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost
Pinheiro, No matter how you (or Soter) attempt to slice and dice it - the fact remains that the obsolete labor intensive methods of agriculture cannot survive without low cost labor. If in case you missed it, I vaguely mentioned it on the subject header. Unless you wish to invent a backwards time machine, it is highly unlikely you will get cheap Goan labor in the future. I also agree with you and Soter that the solution to the problem of high food prices - is even higher cost, low volume agricultural practices. You suggested subsidies for farmers to enhance more agriculture. Presumably the money for this would also grow in the paddy fields. As for Parrikar, the hindi speaking pseudo Goan migrant who has a penchant for picturesque verbal diarrhea, may I suggest he use his dung to promote sustainable agriculture in Soter's and Pinheiro's communes. Marlon From: pinheiro gift.pinhe...@gmail.com Back then (before 90's) the paddy cultivation in Goan households was more of family and neighbors affair. Back then, the Family structure was not as we see it today (1 or 2 kids) as most families had four or more children or they were living with extended families. Did some wrote on this forum that he cannot see many pregnant ladies in Goa. The field work was carried out by within each house hold or in barter system. The people use to work in each others fields (no money paid) even if outside labour was used, they were paid in kind (paddy) not cash. With the change in lifestyle and thanks to faulty education system the paddy cultivation and agriculture as a whole is on decline. Successive government failed to come with sustainable agricultural policies. Cumminidade land gifted to tiller who have no interest in paddy cultivation or any other crop. One solution for revival of paddy cultivation would be formation of co-operative movement and then government extending support to them by give free or subsidies to buy small / medium size machines to till and harvest paddy. From: Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com Translation: Although I, Marlon I-know-how-to-spell Menezes, got called out bullsh*tting on matters I know nothing about, I will continue to make an ass of myself in a public forum. Marlon-bhaiyya (as in UP bhaiyya) should wonder no more. Big daddy P is related to me, as is potato-head Digu.
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields
To Goanet - Marlon Menezes wrote: Perhaps Parrikar's name is real. In fact, one wonders if Parrikar is related to his big daddy namesake in the opposition and is ranting against current government officials to foster his master's agenda? Translation: Although I, Marlon I-know-how-to-spell Menezes, got called out bullsh*tting on matters I know nothing about, I will continue to make an ass of myself in a public forum. Marlon-bhaiyya (as in UP bhaiyya) should wonder no more. Big daddy P is related to me, as is potato-head Digu. Next question. Regards, r
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labor
Elvino wrote: It is not the exact truth why agriculture is a dying industry in Goa that it is because of the lack of manpower. People have stopped cultivating lands because it is not feasible due to high cost of Labour in Goa now. The migrant if welcomed by Marlon they are still excessively available in Goa but Goans still find the labour is very expensive. Since they (migrants) are already available in very excessive numbers whether Arwin, Soter or Rajan like it or not but the agriculture labour still very expensive and to much laborious. This is the real reason and Marlon got it wrong why the lands are not cultivated. Comment: I agree with a lot of what Elvino says. Firstly, Goa's agriculture land holdings were meant to build self-reliant and self-sustained families and were not meant for profits. There are families in maharashtra sustaining themselves on 1 acre of land. Our agriculture was not meant to hire labour. Family members chipped in. If at all extra labour was need it worked on a barter system called 'bodlo'. I give 3 days in your field you give me 3 days in return in my field. If at all wages were paid for those who did not have fields, they were given a worth in kind like so many measures of paddy and so on. Thereby the food stock of landless persons was also built up. Secondly, The migrants have not done any favour to Goans. Instead they have carefully orchestrated a situation whereby they eliminated all local labour. The migrants are now exploiting the situation which has made them unaffordable to the Goan. How did they do it? When our local labour wage was Rs. 120, these migrants were ready to work for Rs. 80. This is similar to how Philipino labour displaced Indian labour in the gulf. Foolish Goans prefered to employ the migrants to save the Rs. 40. But the work of local labour was of far superior quality when compared to that of the migrant and any Goan who has personally worked in the fields will vouch for that. The local labour is very aware of his worth and is not ready to be exploited by the employer. So gradually the local labour finding no employment prefered to stray away into other streams of livelihood No sooner that happened the migrants raised their demands much more than what the local labour was demanding. Secondly the migrant work force that works in the field descend into Goa only after they have finished with their work in the fields back home. Thereby there is a loss of time in the agriculture operations in Goa. They treat Goa like the gulf and make as much money as they can and go return to their village. The migrants in turn contribute to so many social and health problems. Thirdly, the soil conditions and other physical conditions have deteriorated due to pollution of all kinds. Air and sunlight has been blocked by high rise building, waste water, eroded soil finds its way into the fields along with it is non bio-degradable garbage and so on. The bundhs have not been maintained and often the mafia break the sluice gates and flood the fields for fish farming. So also, the plough or power tillers are not available in time and so on. These factors further increases the burden for the farmer and makes agriculture non-profitable. Fourthly, in case of paddy there is a hell lot of work till it reaches the mill. Spaces for drying and boiling the paddy are diminishing. The present generation of youngsters have not cultivated the physique and stamina for such kind of work. The psyche of everyone is to look for a job in some industry. So matters are not so simple as is being made out by marlon and company.
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields - thanks to the lack of low cost manual labour
COMMENT : Soter has forgotten one main reason that started the downfall of our rice cultivation. Both the Acts, Mundkar Act and the Agricultural tenancy Act were vote oriented Acts by Bandodkar. It was put into the heads of the populace that they were bonded labourers like in the counterparts of India. They relished the idea of becoming ‘batcars’ overnight without any effort. I remember their election slogan: “Mundcaranc batt, Xethcaranc Xeth”. Then came free education and the overnight landowner farmers themselves used to state that their children will now be doctors, engineers, etc. and in fact sneer at the original land owners. These people are all not yet dead, some live to see the outcome of their conceitedness. Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields due to lack of low cost manual labour
Low cost manual labor ? Gotta be kidding. I live in Goa and need labor occasionally for specific tasks. So I go to the decrepit and defunct Bazaar area in Porvorim where the migrant labor congregate to offer their services. Going rate right now ? Rs. 300 per day (it was Rs 250 last year, and who knows how much it will be next year !). Try to hire one, and they (probably looking out for each other) demand that you hire two or they wont come. They will work from 8:30 to 5:30 with a 2-hour mid-day lunch/siesta break. At 5:00 p.m. they start washing up and dressing in preparation to go home. You have to provide transportation from the Bazaar to your home and back. Then they tell you what work they will do and what they will NOT do. You have to closely supervise them, or very little gets done. I caught some of them taking long breaks to ingest some type of stimulant, I think it was tobacco and limestone powder. You ask them where they come from, and they say Bihar, Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, Orrisa and sometimes Karnataka. So even the origin of the migrant workers has changed. It used to be that what we sometimes called Ghatis came from over the Ghats in neighboring Maharashtra or Karnataka. Word has spread afar that Goa is the land of milk and honey. Re Field (Agricultural) work. They have no idea about the type of Agricultural work we do in Goa. They can dig a ditch, move a pile of stones from here to there, carry a few bags of cement or chirre (cut stones), clear brush etc. Has to be relatively simple stuff. So who is going to till the fields ?? My fellow villagers tell me that the only reliable workers they occasionally get are mostly from Maharashtra who time their arrival in Goa at the time of harvesting the rice. They specialize in scything the rice stalks and foot stomping/thrashing the rice stalks to separate the grain from the stalk. Its a sellers market. They survey the size of the field to be harvested and quote a price. Take it or leave it. They are in demand, and no haggling over the price. Take it or let your grain rot ! At least these workers come to Goa for a specific task and return to their home villages in Maharashtra when the work is done, unlike the workers from the faraway states who build shacks on anybody's vacant land and live with their families, procreating, children running about naked, and defecating anywhere. Another neighbor needed workers to clear her Cashew plantation. The hills where the cashews are grown are choked with weeds and thorny brush after the monsoons. The cashew plantations have to be cleared of the brush and weeds so that the cashews can be collected. Hardly any laborers are willing to undertake the onerous task. I can foresee a time when cashews cannot be collected and our beloved Feni will be scarcer than it is right now. These are the personal observations of a Bhatcar in Goa.
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields
Perhaps Parrikar's name is real. In fact, one wonders if Parrikar is related to his big daddy namesake in the opposition and is ranting against current government officials to foster his master's agenda? As far as cheap labor is concerned, I guess, he shares Soter's leftist views in restricting the free mobility of labor. At least Soter lives in Goa. Perhaps non-immigrants, like him and Arwin should move back to Goa and replace the manual ghanti labor they so despise. They would both be well qualified for this work. Marlon From: Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com But on the topic of fields being destroyed, Marlon Menezes is talking out of his behind. I had given the specific example of Taleigao, where communidade land has been commandeered by Monserrate and his band of thugs for construction. The space for cultivation for the local gaude has shrunk to a patch here and a patch there. Exactly the same thing has happened everywhere else in Goa. Fields - often communidade fields - have been converted from agricultural to commercial purposes for the express purpose of erecting concrete structures and filling the pockets of politicos, sarpanchas, panchas, and of course the builders. All this is so well known that it is surprising that Marlon Menezes is so out of touch with Goa. Perhaps he is a non-Goan masquerading as a Goan. Many ghatis in Goa these days change their names from, say, Rudrappa, to Ronald D'Souza. Who knows, Marlon I-know-how-to-spell Menezes may well be one of those. Regards, r
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields
I know of Goan real estate brokers who are making brisk sales of Goan lands to outsiders from Noida and Gujarat on grounds that either Goans cannot afford to buy lands at the prices offered by outsiders or Goans do not make prompt payments. When I tell them that, with such activity, Goans will soon cease to have a majority in the Goa legfislative assembly, they are most unconcerned. Money is their God. Goan MP in the Rajya Sabha, Shantaram Laxman Naik, had promised that he would move the Government of India to declare Goa a protected state like the North Eastern states. What is the progress on that front? John Menezes From: Rajan P. Parrikar To Goanet - Quick brief - On the way back to Panjim this morning from an early photo shoot in Loutolim, I saw a Goan farmer selling fresh vegetables by the roadside in Agacaim. Gaunthi vaingim - http://www.parrikar.org/images/samples/vaingim.jpg
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields
True - this was what struck me too. The fenced fields were looking lush and appealing. Witnessed this on 9th feb 2011 Ashley -Original Message- From: goanet-boun...@lists.goanet.org [mailto:goanet-boun...@lists.goanet.org] On Behalf Of Rajan P. Parrikar Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:57 AM To: goa...@goanet.org Subject: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields To Goanet - Quick brief - On the way back to Panjim this morning from an early photo shoot in Loutolim, I saw a Goan farmer selling fresh vegetables by the roadside in Agacaim. Gaunthi vaingim - http://www.parrikar.org/images/samples/vaingim.jpg Looking at these magnificent brinjals I couldn't help but reflect on what might have been if Goan agriculture - and with it our traditional farmers, mostly gaude - had not been systematically destroyed and diminished. You can't get this quality of produce and its taste anywhere in the world, not even in fertile California. Goa could have been self-sufficient, and farming could have been an export industry as well. We could have employed all our traditional folks, saved our open spaces and fields, and thwarted the take-over by ghatis. Shame on us. The thug Monserrate has destroyed live cultivable fields in Taleigao to make way for monster concrete buildings, mostly to be lapped up by outsiders. If you have sampled the vaingim from Taleigao you will know what real vaingim taste like. Regards, r
Re: [Goanet] Death of Goa's fields
To Goanet - Marlon Menezes wrote: This is another example of hypocrisy by anti-immigrant, non-resident pseudo Goans like Arwin and Rajan. One reason why agriculture is a dying industry in Goa because of the lack of manpower. There is limited manpower thanks to the large out flow of Goans, like Arwin and Rajan to other parts of India and the world. Landowners would like to get access to manual labor to get farm work done, but we have anti-immigrant bashers like Arwin and Rajan, and extreme leftists like Soter who oppose such free movement of labor to satisfy market needs. Have these anti-free market, anti-immigrant clowns ever spoken to farmers and landowners about the problems they face? With the land lying fallow, it makes a lot of sense for the landowners to sell their properties to the construction industry. It is almost as if the anti-immigrant groups are working hand in glove with the land sharks. Marlon Menezes is right only about one thing: I am against migration into Goa. We are bursting at the seams here. I have laid out my reasons in some detail over many posts here on Goanet. But on the topic of fields being destroyed, Marlon Menezes is talking out of his behind. I had given the specific example of Taleigao, where communidade land has been commandeered by Monserrate and his band of thugs for construction. The space for cultivation for the local gaude has shrunk to a patch here and a patch there. Exactly the same thing has happened everywhere else in Goa. Fields - often communidade fields - have been converted from agricultural to commercial purposes for the express purpose of erecting concrete structures and filling the pockets of politicos, sarpanchas, panchas, and of course the builders. The gaude could have been elevated form subsistence farming to a sustainable operation. I am not surprised by Marlon's bullpucky about manpower. Exactly the same reasons are trotted by others here who want cheap ghati labour. All this is so well known that it is surprising that Marlon Menezes is so out of touch with Goa. Perhaps he is a non-Goan masquerading as a Goan. Many ghatis in Goa these days change their names from, say, Rudrappa, to Ronald D'Souza. Who knows, Marlon I-know-how-to-spell Menezes may well be one of those. Regards, r
