Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
--- On Thu, 8/14/08, Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Eugene, You provided a service to Goans by giving us the story behind the story and a segway for others who provided the 'not so pleasant facts' like the poor attendance. I have no idea why an intelligent professional like Gilbert posts rubbish on this forum on a variety of topics. By his own admission Eugene had a drink at the ball and wrote his one-sided piece which I was surprised was allowed by a Goanet moderator (since it violated Goanet rules of attacking people). Also surprised to see it on the Goan Voice- UK website, devaluing the website which Eddie has worked so hard to build. I think Goan conventions should be held in places with a large Goan population. This also provides an opportunity for the local community to show-case its successes and achievements. The convention held in Goa (a large Goan population) two years ago had about 60 people, many of them Goa govt. officials. An arrest was made at that convention. The Goa convention had paid staff with a lot of money spent and was still a failure. By comparison, the Toronto convention had volunteers (no paid staff), hundreds of attendees at the tiatr, ball, a grand fashion show, mando performance, etc. and 80+ at the workshops. Try and find 80+ serious Goans to discuss serious Goan topics anywhere. THE TORONTO CONVENTION WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL (see Filomena, Virignia, Acaria's posts). The rest of Gilbert's comments can be dismissed as coming from one who was NOT involved in the action, rather third-party empty armchair advice. Regards, George
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Well, I am just back from a couple of days outside the province. A lot of stuff has been posted re: the above issue. I will answer the post-dated cheque (did it bounce?), the visa for the woman and other issues. Eugene
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
I completely agree with George's observation. It is particularly paradoxical to note how Eugene Correia complains about the absence of younger generations at the Convention, and then, at the same time, engages in the ladainha of personal, social and inter-organisational petty tirades and disputes which are the main reason why young diasporic Goans stay away from these initiatives. At a more general level, I was not able to attend the Convention, but although I am sure that if I had done so, I would have a handful of constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement, I would also like to congratulate all who made it possible, especially all who volunteered. Parabens! Constantino H. Xavier New Delhi / Lisbon (currently in Verna, Goa) --- George Pinto georgejpinto at yahoo.com Sat Aug 2 21:34:50 PDT 2008 Dear Eugene I am disappointed by your Notes from the Goan Convention posts. They are vinegar posts. So much hard work, goodwill, positive accomplishments all from very fine people in the Toronto Goan community and you have overlooked that, instead we are presented negatives. I know from personal experience how difficult and time-consuming these ventures are to undertake and pull-off. Goans must be encouraging and grateful. In the near future, I will post a write-up from one of the attendees. Regards, George _ Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games Trivia Contest http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Santosh Helekar wrote: 1: I have always believed that a sound critique based on facts is essential to any form of honest discourse. 2: Gilbert fails to recognize what is based on gossip, hearsay and personal opinion, and what is based on fact. 3: He also seems not to recognize the principle of not divulging private information about others in a public forum. Earlier: Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4: I did not attend the meeting. 5: I thought Eugene's write up was factual without malice Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 08:17:40 -0400 From: J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED] and How does he know that the information revealed by Eugene was 'factual'.? Did he do due diligence. Just for the record, I spoke for a total of 3 hours and 37 minutes to different individuals in Toronto, asking ALL kinds of questions and counter questions, before I put my post in the form of 12 questions. Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:24:50 +0530 From: floriano [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to venture into summing up this litany of yours vis a vis Eugene Correia and the Toronto Convention in just one flat sentence: Gabe Menezes gabe.menezes at gmail.com Sun Aug 3 07:41:56 PDT 2008 perhaps what Eugene writes is true or perhaps no one wants to dignify Eugene's posts on the subject matter. I have met all the players mentioned and have nothing but respect for their undertakings. One of the persons elected, to the next Convention, was a defaulter of the Goan Association U.K. and really should have been an ex member. Mario asks: Am I missing something, or aren't the people best qualified to engage in discussing the denouement of the recently concluded Goan Convention those who actually attended the conference and those who organized such a complex international event? And shouldn't those who should listen most carefully to everything being said are those who have stuck their necks out to organize the next one? Your turn in the hotseat will not be long in coming:-)) If anyone lost their own money in this endeavor because others failed to do their fair share, or pay their dues as agreed, etc. shame on them. No sooner had the convention ended that I noticed the long knives being drawn to continue old battles and other personality conflicts that may have nothing to do with this conference or the next one, where if some of the participants involving themselves in this surprisingly contentious discussion are true to form, all this will be repeated once again, next year. They don't refer to it as the Goan crab mentality for nothing. We see it on display on Goanet on a daily basis, so why would it suddenly disappear after such a monumental undertaking as the Toronto Convention? Regardless of what happened or did not happen in Toronto, I would like to commend all those who must have spent endless personal time at the expense of their normal business and work schedules and families in order to pull of such a complex international convention. Even if there were shortcomings and mis-steps, I'm sure most of them did their best - why would they not after sticking their heads out - but you always see the odd resume padder, or the odd malcontent and piker who does not pay their dues, intentionally or unintentionally. The resume padder should be sidelined and the piker should not be registered at the next convention unless they pay their arrears in full. If you as an attendee had a very personal and unique problem or inconvenience, get over it. These events are for the benefit of most of the attendees and the people who tend to have a tolerant and positive outlook on life also tend to enjoy such events the most. You will rarely hear from the 99% who had a great time. My view of such events is that they are great for meeting people and networking, sharing in the pride in ancestry, enjoying the food and fellowship and renewing old ties, and telling tall tales about the giant fishes that got away since last they met:-)) Meeting and greeting may lead to alliances that may be able to address one or another issue back in the Motherland, but if anyone thinks these conventions can solve a single major problem in Goa, they need to calm down and get right back down to earth:-))
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
--- On Sun, 8/3/08, Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish to add my two cents to this debate. How come the same individuals that take Eugene to task have not / do not practice what they are preaching to Eugene? I hope at least in the future, they will practice what they preach; or they can be part of the 'crab-codi'. Perhaps, out of some kind of fear of naming names, Gilbert does not say that he is referring to George, Selma, Frederick and/or myself in the above excerpt. His derogatory remarks and innuendo directed at me and/or them are utterly baseless. Speaking for myself, I want to say I have always believed that a sound critique based on facts is essential to any form of honest discourse. In accordance with this conviction, I have tried to practice the use of facts, and facts alone, to support my critique of any post on Goanet. I have never relied on gossip or hearsay, and I have never revealed private personal information about others in a public forum. Furthermore, it is clear from what Gilbert has written in his quote below that his assessment of critiques is not very sound. He fails to recognize what is based on gossip, hearsay and personal opinion, and what is based on fact. He also seems not to recognize the principle of not divulging private information about others in a public forum. As evidence for these points, please note that he does not seem to have a problem with the following from the critique in question: I am informed that Kevin gave Al the award because Al is not keeping good health. Al informed me that he underwent lung surgery a couple of months earlier and that the top lobe of his right lung has been removed. He said he was feeling fine and the doctors have assured me that there no traces of cancer are left. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not attend the meeting. I thought Eugene's write up was factual without malice or never- ending and personal opinions that Goanetters are prone to dwell upon. I think Gabe's comments were as usual very insightful. I met Ben Antao once and he is a fine man. I know some other organizers via Goanet. What I find interesting now that it is their turn to deliver, (instead of critiquing the work of others on Goanet), they appreciate how hard real success is. It is so much easier to critique others in the past ... way past (prior generations) ... or way way past (history).
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Selma, if i may add...By people without any reputation Dear Santosh et al, Of late I have refrained from posting on Goanet. It has become a forum to ruin people's reputations. The newspapers said that Oscar Rebello resigned on account of the hate-campaign started against him on the internet. The internet has become a powerful yet vicious tool. selma --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I too was disappointed by the critique referred to by George, and also by the infighting that is going on between all the Goan fighters and organizations. It is hard to understand why people rely so much on pure gossip, misunderstanding and personal bias. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1: I have always believed that a sound critique based on facts is essential to any form of honest discourse. 2: Gilbert fails to recognize what is based on gossip, hearsay and personal opinion, and what is based on fact. 3: He also seems not to recognize the principle of not divulging private information about others in a public forum. earlier: Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4: I did not attend the meeting. 5: I thought Eugene's write up was factual without malice == jc's response (final on this topic ...unless) Dear Santoshbab, I absolutely agree with your above (excerpted) points. I was horrified to read Eugene's post. I am sure that other people (when they are tired, upset, drunk) will say anything to us. Some of it may be true and some of it not. There are always (temporary) inter-personal issues when a group is organising an event. If the event fails, the blame always falls on the 'event coordinator / manager etc'. That is why one chooses a strong and hard-working person to get the job done; not some drunk loose-lips or a lazy woos who does little constructive. Strong people always demand much and deliver much. Some among us have a problem with strong leadership especially when the leader happens to be a woman. Happens! Sometimes too - in a weak moment - some say many things to others (in confidence). Some of it is true, some of it is not. It is important to verify - as much as we can and to ask IF that information can be quoted in a public forum. It is never our business (if we are sensible) to reveal confidential personal information about others. Does Gilbert not practice the principle of confidentiality wrt personal information? and How does he know that the information revealed by Eugene was 'factual'.? Did he do due diligence. Just for the record, I spoke for a total of 3 hours and 37 minutes to different individuals in Toronto, asking ALL kinds of questions and counter questions, before I put my post in the form of 12 questions. I intentionally avoided question number 13 in the public forum - as it involved a third party (a woman) and something about a Canadian visa to attend the convention. I did put that question (in a non-public forum post) to Eugene as it is my information that he had a link to that issue. He may choose to address that issue or he may choose to ignore them and abuse further. I did however repeat my question about the payment (or future-payment) of registration fees. This is yet another invitation to Eugene Correia to answer this question: Has he cleared the registration dues, YET? From what I understand, the convention concluded over a week ago. sincerely jc As Velim based Kon fucius once said: He who throws fators on other people's windows, will have no windows himself. So much for 'exposure'.(;-)
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Dear Eugene I am disappointed by your Notes from the Goan Convention posts. They are vinegar posts. So much hard work, goodwill, positive accomplishments all from very fine people in the Toronto Goan community and you have overlooked that, instead we are presented negatives. I know from personal experience how difficult and time-consuming these ventures are to undertake and pull-off. Goans must be encouraging and grateful. In the near future, I will post a write-up from one of the attendees. Regards, George
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Dear Santosh et al, Of late I have refrained from posting on Goanet. It has become a forum to ruin people's reputations. The newspapers said that Oscar Rebello resigned on account of the hate-campaign started against him on the internet. The internet has become a powerful yet vicious tool. selma --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention To: Goanet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 3:42 AM I too was disappointed by the critique referred to by George, and also by the infighting that is going on between all the Goan fighters and organizations. It is hard to understand why people rely so much on pure gossip, misunderstanding and personal bias. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/2/08, George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Eugene I am disappointed by your Notes from the Goan Convention posts. They are vinegar posts. So much hard work, goodwill, positive accomplishments all from very fine people in the Toronto Goan community and you have overlooked that, instead we are presented negatives. I know from personal experience how difficult and time-consuming these ventures are to undertake and pull-off. Goans must be encouraging and grateful. In the near future, I will post a write-up from one of the attendees.
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
I too was disappointed by the critique referred to by George, and also by the infighting that is going on between all the Goan fighters and organizations. It is hard to understand why people rely so much on pure gossip, misunderstanding and personal bias. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/2/08, George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Eugene I am disappointed by your Notes from the Goan Convention posts. They are vinegar posts. So much hard work, goodwill, positive accomplishments all from very fine people in the Toronto Goan community and you have overlooked that, instead we are presented negatives. I know from personal experience how difficult and time-consuming these ventures are to undertake and pull-off. Goans must be encouraging and grateful. In the near future, I will post a write-up from one of the attendees.
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
2008/8/3 Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Santosh et al, Of late I have refrained from posting on Goanet. It has become a forum to ruin people's reputations. The newspapers said that Oscar Rebello resigned on account of the hate-campaign started against him on the internet. The internet has become a powerful yet vicious tool. selma RESPONSE: Well what Rebello stated might be true but it was not here on Goanet, that his name and reputation was tarnished, by People from his own side! Quite the opposite, I got the distinct impression, warranted or not, that Mr. Braganza defended him on his forum on more than one occasion. -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London.
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Gabe, I think you're under-estimating Goanet's ability to set the agenda ... in ways both positive and negative! FN 2008/8/3 Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/8/3 Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Santosh et al, Of late I have refrained from posting on Goanet. It has become a forum to ruin people's reputations. The newspapers said that Oscar Rebello resigned on account of the hate-campaign started against him on the internet. The internet has become a powerful yet vicious tool. selma RESPONSE: Well what Rebello stated might be true but it was not here on Goanet, that his name and reputation was tarnished, by People from his own side! Quite the opposite, I got the distinct impression, warranted or not, that Mr. Braganza defended him on his forum on more than one occasion. -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London. -- FN * Independent Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org 784 Nr Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402 16,000+ photos from Goa: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
2008/8/3 Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gabe, I think you're under-estimating Goanet's ability to set the agenda ... in ways both positive and negative! FN RESPONSE: Thanks for the information, now we can truly say, indeed, the 'pen is mightier than the sword' -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London.
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
Mightier? Deadlier? More lethal? More despicable? Take your pick. History will judge us, as Fidel Castro is wont to say :-) FN 2008/8/3 Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/8/3 Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gabe, I think you're under-estimating Goanet's ability to set the agenda ... in ways both positive and negative! FN RESPONSE: Thanks for the information, now we can truly say, indeed, the 'pen is mightier than the sword' -- FN * Independent Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org 784 Nr Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402 16,000+ photos from Goa: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention
2008/8/3 Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I too was disappointed by the critique referred to by George, and also by the infighting that is going on between all the Goan fighters and organizations. It is hard to understand why people rely so much on pure gossip, misunderstanding and personal bias. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/2/08, George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Eugene I am disappointed by your Notes from the Goan Convention posts. They are vinegar posts. So much hard work, goodwill, positive accomplishments all from very fine people in the Toronto Goan community and you have overlooked that, instead we are presented negatives. I know from personal experience how difficult and time-consuming these ventures are to undertake and pull-off. Goans must be encouraging and grateful. In the near future, I will post a write-up from one of the attendees. RESPONSE: It is easy to take issue with what Eugene has written; we shall never learn lessons, if issues to be confronted, are not brought to the fore. The powers that be, whether in the Goa Govt. the various Goan organizations and what have you, would be more than happy that only praise is heaped. In fact, pronouncements have been made here in London as well'we do not want controversy' Which means please overlook the bad stuff . I believe the organizers of the convention and perhaps Kevin himself has suffered where it hurts - the bottom line - with him picking up the hefty tab; could be others as well. To add insult to injury, we now have all and sundry reading about it, here on Goanet. There has been no closing of ranks as yet and/or denials; perhaps what Eugene writes is true or perhaps no one wants to dignify Eugene's posts on the subject matter. I have met all the players mentioned and have nothing but respect for their undertakings. I am sure lessons have been learnt and I am also sure that those involved will not venture into any further undertakings, where Goans are concerned. Once bitten twice shy... I have been asked on several occasions to take over our local Goan Organization; I have told them, I need it like a bullet in the head...although I have stated, that I will always give a helping hand. What I would like to know is how the process takes place: Who decides where the next convention will take place and who decides who is qualified to take on the task. In short who decided that London is the next venue and who decided on the election of persons for the next committee. I would not want to sully the next convention, with my presence. One of the persons elected, to the next Convention, was a defaulter of the Goan Association U.K. and really should have been an ex member. We were gracious enough to allow the person to pay all the back dues. This came to light because the person had co-signed as sponsor, a new member, while being 'out of membership' when we rejected the new applicants membership, on this basis, the guy was peeved. I must hasten to add that, I then co-signed the membership request form. This ordinary member has been one of the most disruptive persons, ever to adorn a seat on the Board of Directors of the G.O.A U.K. Ltd. I trust and hope that the G.O.A. U.K Ltd has neither given a blank cheque nor, will they retrospecively agree to fund this cause. I was one of 17 founder members of the Association, having signed a letter of intent in the mid 60's; I am also a Life Member of the Association. The Association is already nursing a substantial paper loss on property, which we are to take possesion of, in the fall. This could be conservatively in the region of a 20 percent hit to our bottom line. -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London.
Re: [Goanet] Notes from the Goan Convention -- Part I and Part 2
Hi Eugene It was nice meeting you for the first time at the Goan Convention, Toronto and I hope you will remember to kindly let me have Professor Frank de Souza's book on the Goan character, written in Bombay, that I requested as well as its price and cost when posted to me. I have read your two long posts about the Convention and clearly, you appear to know a lot more than I could possibly know, about any intrigues surrounding the Convention and the Goan organisations in Toronto. OK, it is easy to be critical about any event or organisation but I wonder if perhaps you have been a wee bit too critical and less constructively so and if your critique could have been done more dispassionately? Just a thought, bearing in mind the phenomenal effort that obviously went into the organisation and management of the Convention. I am sure we do not want to discourage others from taking on this enormous task in future years, but no doubt, note will be made of some of the operational issues you have highlighted. Kind regards Cornel --- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not write earlier as I expected the organisers to give us their primary report. Ben Antao is listed as Media Director and I thought he would give us a rundown of the convention. Since it has not come so far, I will provide my own views and opinions...
