Re: [google-appengine] Re: Performance comparison between Master/Slave and High Replication

[Matija]

Hi Keakon,

could you put benchmark results for master/slave and high replication 
datastore with 20 entities (for get and fetch) and 1 entity for put and 
delete instead of 500. We present data in 20 entity size batch and save only 
one entity (or entity group) per request so to us this would be more 
realistic benchmark. Please use original code without single entity group.

Tnx, MATijA.

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[google-appengine] Re: Uploading Files.

[Shoubhik]

Ohkay... Thanks T :)

On Jan 4, 4:45 pm, Tim Hoffman  wrote:
> Hi
>
> Time to read your getting started guide.  You can't upload/write to the
> filesystem.
> Everything must be stored in either the datastore, blobstore, or memcache.
>  Thats it there
> is no where else the application can put data inside the appengine
> ecosystem.
>
> Rgds
>
> T

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Is default sort order by __key__ for query without a specified order?

[Teemu Ikonen]

Is there way to get results reversed key order without custom index? That 
would save couple of custom indexes in searches that now use 'created' 
timestamp or similar property.

Thanks

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Is default sort order by __key__ for query without a specified order?

[Peter Ondruska]

Not that I know of. But if the returned set is not too big you can sort 
outside datastore.

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[google-appengine] Migrating data to HR

[Sahid Orentino Ferdjaoui]

Hello!

I would like migrate my data to an another app  configured with HR
but the time to migrate data is too much. I need to down my website about 
1day...
(i have try to migrate my data last night (without read only mode) ...the 
morning i have transferred less than half of part.)

- It exist a solution to migrate data (about 35giga) to HR without take a 
too much time?
- I have saw in my log many error, data transferate are sur?

Thanks a lot!
--sahid

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Re: [google-appengine] Migrating data to HR

[Wim den Ouden]

Hello Sahid,
A lot off data,
Probably you have to write a utility on the new site, when a user
needs data check in the new datastore, not there fetch it from the old
site show it and save it to the new datastore.
For the users there is a little more wait time but there is no offline time.
gr
wim

2011/1/7 Sahid Orentino Ferdjaoui 
>
> Hello!
> I would like migrate my data to an another app  configured with HR
> but the time to migrate data is too much. I need to down my website about 
> 1day...
> (i have try to migrate my data last night (without read only mode) ...the 
> morning i have transferred less than half of part.)
> - It exist a solution to migrate data (about 35giga) to HR without take a too 
> much time?
> - I have saw in my log many error, data transferate are sur?
> Thanks a lot!
> --sahid
>
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--
gr
Wim den Ouden
Custom applications
Free E-commerce framework (web) apps
Free open source
Gae developer tips

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[google-appengine] Where to report Internal Server Error ?

[Matija]

Hi, I have problem with application upload at 'Uploading index definitions.' 
stage. My appid is kurirska-dostava and log is:

Unable to update:
java.io.IOException: Error posting to URL: 
https://appengine.google.com/api/datastore/index/add?app_id=kurirska-dostava&version=1&;
500 Internal Server Error

Server Error (500)
A server error has occurred.

at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.send(ServerConnection.java:149)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.post(ServerConnection.java:82)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.send(AppVersionUpload.java:582)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.updateIndexes(AppVersionUpload.java:275)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.doUpload(AppVersionUpload.java:134)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:56)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg$UpdateAction.execute(AppCfg.java:547)
at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:138)
at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:61)
at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.main(AppCfg.java:57)
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AdminException: Unable to update app: Error 
posting to URL: 
https://appengine.google.com/api/datastore/index/add?app_id=kurirska-dostava&version=1&;
500 Internal Server Error

Server Error (500)
A server error has occurred.

at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:62)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg$UpdateAction.execute(AppCfg.java:547)
at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:138)
at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:61)
at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.main(AppCfg.java:57)
Caused by: java.io.IOException: Error posting to URL: 
https://appengine.google.com/api/datastore/index/add?app_id=kurirska-dostava&version=1&;
500 Internal Server Error

Server Error (500)
A server error has occurred.

at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.send(ServerConnection.java:149)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.post(ServerConnection.java:82)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.send(AppVersionUpload.java:582)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.updateIndexes(AppVersionUpload.java:275)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.doUpload(AppVersionUpload.java:134)
at 
com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:56)
... 4 more

Gae team can you help me ?

Is there some other way to report these kinds of problem or do I need simply 
to post it on groups and actually spam others because they don't need to 
know this ? 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Performance comparison between Master/Slave and High Replication

[风笑雪]

Hi Matija,

Code:

from time import time
from google.appengine.ext import db

class Test(db.Model):
pass

keys = [db.Key.from_path('Test', i) for i in xrange(1, 21)]
tests = [Test(key=key) for key in keys]
db.put(tests)

t = time()
Test.all().fetch(20)
print 'fetch 20:', time() - t

t = time()
db.get(keys)
print 'get 20:', time() - t

t = time()
config = db.create_config(deadline=5, read_policy=db.EVENTUAL_CONSISTENCY)
db.get(keys, config=config)
print 'get 20 (EVENTUAL_CONSISTENCY):', time() - t

key = db.Key.from_path('Test', 21)
test = Test(key=key)

t = time()
test.put()
print 'put 1:', time() - t

db.delete(keys + [key])


Result:

Master/Slave:

> fetch 20: 0.0107522010803

get 20: 0.0108997821808

get 20 (EVENTUAL_CONSISTENCY): 0.0107271671295

put 1: 0.0120298862457


> ms=193 cpu_ms=2085 api_cpu_ms=2015 cpm_usd=0.058186



High Replication:

> fetch 20: 0.0176739692688

get 20: 0.101014137268

get 20 (EVENTUAL_CONSISTENCY): 0.0169019699097

put 1: 0.0453717708588


> ms=690 cpu_ms=5078 api_cpu_ms=4987 cpm_usd=0.141334



I think you can ignore the differences because the dataset is too small, but
the time would be longer if you have many properties.
--
keakon

My blog(Chinese): www.keakon.net
Blog source code: https://bitbucket.org/keakon/doodle/



On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Matija  wrote:

> Hi Keakon,
>
> could you put benchmark results for master/slave and high replication
> datastore with 20 entities (for get and fetch) and 1 entity for put and
> delete instead of 500. We present data in 20 entity size batch and save only
> one entity (or entity group) per request so to us this would be more
> realistic benchmark. Please use original code without single entity group.
>
> Tnx, MATijA.
>
> --
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> .
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>

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Re: [google-appengine] What does offline URL Fetch mean?

[Maxim Veksler]

Not sure I'm inline with this.

How 10min URLFetch limit is relevant is request is limited to 30seconds?
What am I missing something?

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Nick Johnson (Google) <
nick.john...@google.com> wrote:

> Hi Keakon,
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:17 PM, 风笑雪  wrote:
>
>> I found the SDK 1.4.1 has increased the limit, but I don't know what's
>> the offline URL Fetch:
>>
>> The deadline for offline URL Fetch API requests for Python and Java have
>>> been increased to a maximum of 10 minutes. The default deadline for offline
>>> URL Fetch requests remains the same.
>>
>>
>> Does it mean the URL Fetch requests sent from cron jobs or tasks?
>>
>
> That's correct. We refer to cron jobs and task queue tasks as 'offline'
> requests.
>
> -Nick
>
>
>> --
>> keakon
>>
>> My blog(Chinese): www.keakon.net
>> Blog source code: https://bitbucket.org/keakon/doodle/
>>
>>  --
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine
> Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number:
> 368047
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Performance comparison between Master/Slave and High Replication

[Matija]

Thank you.

I think that we will stay on master/slave version. Now storing one entity 
group (two entities) with many indexed properties and several composite 
indexes in master/slave datastore is at around 1500 cpu ms and average 
latency 300 ms. With 3 times more cost it will be at often over 1000ms 
average latency limit, not to mention problem of needed ancestors queries to 
present customer stored data in previous request. Maybe with next gen 
queries (I assume around may 2011 right before next IO) I will need smaller 
composite indexes and cost will be bearable. 

Matija.

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Re: [google-appengine] Where to report Internal Server Error ?

[Ravi Sharma]

same here...tried few time. no success

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Matija  wrote:

> Hi, I have problem with application upload at 'Uploading index
> definitions.' stage. My appid is kurirska-dostava and log is:
>
> Unable to update:
> java.io.IOException: Error posting to URL:
> https://appengine.google.com/api/datastore/index/add?app_id=kurirska-dostava&version=1&;
> 500 Internal Server Error
>
> Server Error (500)
> A server error has occurred.
>
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.send(ServerConnection.java:149)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.post(ServerConnection.java:82)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.send(AppVersionUpload.java:582)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.updateIndexes(AppVersionUpload.java:275)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.doUpload(AppVersionUpload.java:134)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:56)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg$UpdateAction.execute(AppCfg.java:547)
> at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:138)
> at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:61)
> at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.main(AppCfg.java:57)
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AdminException: Unable to update app:
> Error posting to URL:
> https://appengine.google.com/api/datastore/index/add?app_id=kurirska-dostava&version=1&;
> 500 Internal Server Error
>
> Server Error (500)
> A server error has occurred.
>
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:62)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg$UpdateAction.execute(AppCfg.java:547)
> at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:138)
> at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.(AppCfg.java:61)
> at com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppCfg.main(AppCfg.java:57)
> Caused by: java.io.IOException: Error posting to URL:
> https://appengine.google.com/api/datastore/index/add?app_id=kurirska-dostava&version=1&;
> 500 Internal Server Error
>
> Server Error (500)
> A server error has occurred.
>
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.send(ServerConnection.java:149)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.ServerConnection.post(ServerConnection.java:82)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.send(AppVersionUpload.java:582)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.updateIndexes(AppVersionUpload.java:275)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.doUpload(AppVersionUpload.java:134)
> at
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:56)
> ... 4 more
>
> Gae team can you help me ?
>
> Is there some other way to report these kinds of problem or do I need
> simply to post it on groups and actually spam others because they don't need
> to know this ?
>
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> "Google App Engine" group.
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Announcing the High Replication Datastore for App Engine

[Stephen]

On Friday, January 7, 2011 12:04:36 AM UTC, Ikai Lan (Google) wrote:
>
> Stephen,
>
> The times I gave earlier were estimates of how much replication delay is 
> introduced in each replication scheme. The "eventually consistent" flag is 
> for reads only and dictates whether or not you care to read from the 
> "Master" datastore - reads will go to a slave if there are issues reaching 
> the master.
>

Ah, I misread your original answer as relating only to the high replication 
datastore - thanks.

This is kind of a surprising answer: replication between data centres 
(hi-rep) takes 100ms; replication within a data centre (M/S) takes 
3000-1ms.  I suppose this is a trade-off: because the default for MS is 
strong consistency you can sacrifice replication lag for higher 
throughput...?

After I asked the question I came across the original blog announcement for 
the EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT option, and it already contains the answer:

  
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2010/03/read-consistency-deadlines-more-control.html

  "The secondary location may not have all of the changes made to the 
primary location at the time the data is read, but it should be very close. 
In the most common case, it will have all of the changes, and for a small 
percentage of requests, it may be a few hundred milliseconds to a few 
seconds behind."

Which is somewhat different than an avg of 3000ms and up to 1ms. The 
figures from the blog post suggests to me that a query with the 
EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT flag is basically not-quite-transactional, where as 
the latest figures of 3-10mins sounds more like stale results. Is this a 
policy change?

Regardless, it would be good to have these figures directly in the docs to 
help folks decide when they can use this feature and to decide between 
hi-rep and m/s.

Couple of other questions related to this:

- What percentage of reads block due to unavailability of a primary? That 
is, how often is setting the EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT flag likely to make any 
difference at all?

- For reads which do block, what is the average wait time for successful 
waits and the failure rate for reads which timeout (without an explicitly 
set deadline)?

- And, how is unavailability of a primary determined? Is it a time out, and 
if so, how long? (I would use this figure to help determine a suitable 
deadline for queries which I want to fail over with eventual consistency.)

Thanks.

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[google-appengine] Re: What does offline URL Fetch mean?

[Geoffrey Spear]

On Jan 7, 9:04 am, Maxim Veksler  wrote:
> Not sure I'm inline with this.
>
> How 10min URLFetch limit is relevant is request is limited to 30seconds?
> What am I missing something?

Offline tasks are not limited to 30 seconds anymore.  This change was
made with the last (or the one before it?) release.

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[google-appengine] Re: Performance comparison between Master/Slave and High Replication

[Philip]

Hi Ikai,

you mentioned that queries are faster on HR because they do not
guarantee consistency and therefore aren't using transactions. Is it
possible to get the same behaviour for some queries at Master/Slave
datastore?

Best Regards
Philip

On Jan 7, 3:13 pm, Matija  wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> I think that we will stay on master/slave version. Now storing one entity
> group (two entities) with many indexed properties and several composite
> indexes in master/slave datastore is at around 1500 cpu ms and average
> latency 300 ms. With 3 times more cost it will be at often over 1000ms
> average latency limit, not to mention problem of needed ancestors queries to
> present customer stored data in previous request. Maybe with next gen
> queries (I assume around may 2011 right before next IO) I will need smaller
> composite indexes and cost will be bearable.
>
> Matija.

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[google-appengine] Need to map a subfolder to a owned domain

[Miguel]

Hi,
I am trying to do something that seems impossible: I am developing a
Java GAE application in .appspot.com account.
With a RESTful approach I am creating several "web-applications" to
these urls:
- .appspot.com/applications/
- .appspot.com/applications/
- .appspot.com/applications/
- ..

At this point I have a question: is there a way to map the domain
www.myapplication1.com to .appspot.com/applications/?

I succeeded:
- to map www.myapplication.com to .appspot.com (with the Google
Apps standard service)
- to redirect www.myapplication1.com to .appspot.com/
applications/ (with the enom.com advanced service)

.. but I don't really want to just "redirect" the http call: I would
like to complete hide the appspot domain with my own domain.

>From what I understood about the DNS "CNAME" I should create a
subdomain of .appspot.com for each "web-applications", but I
really don't know how to do this in Java. I saw some tutorials only
for python.

Thank you very much,
Miguel

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[google-appengine] Verify Your Account by SMS: The phone number has been sent too many messages or has already been used to confirm an account.

[ZS]

Hi All,
when I try to get my *verification code,* I see this error:

*The phone number has been sent too many messages or has already been used 
to confirm an account.
*
I already used my mobile number to get a *verification code*, but I've 
deleted my old Google account. Can you remove my mobile number from the 
Google database, please?

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[google-appengine] Search Engine in GAE

[William_SO]

Hello Guys

Firstly a Happy New Year to everyone!

I'm in need of help. I want to use a search engine (Lucene, Solr,
Sphinx ...) in the GAE.
But I'm having some trouble doing this.
Does anyone have any idea how I do it?

Grateful to everyone now.

Hugs,
William Santos de Oliveira.

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine and Google Web Toolkit?

[Thuy Nhien]

Thanks Robert! But why do we have 2 seperated Google groups about two
related components of a software suite?

On Jan 7, 12:42 am, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> GWT: client side.http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/overview.html
>
> GAE: server 
> side.http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/whatisgoogleappengine.html
>
> Robert
>


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine and Google Web Toolkit?

[Robert Kluin]

Aside from internet focused products made / provided by Google, I am
not sure there is a relationship between the two.  One is an
application hosting platform, the other is a client side development
tool.







On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 21:32, Thuy Nhien  wrote:
> Thanks Robert! But why do we have 2 seperated Google groups about two
> related components of a software suite?
>
> On Jan 7, 12:42 am, Robert Kluin  wrote:
>> GWT: client side.http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/overview.html
>>
>> GAE: server 
>> side.http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/whatisgoogleappengine.html
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
>
> --
> Thuy Nhien DOAN
> Mobile phone: +84 923 862 630
> OFFSHORING 2.1: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_13400954319&ap=1
> -
> “Your heart is my piñata.”
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine and Google Web Toolkit?

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

You can build GWT apps without App Engine, and App Engine apps without GWT.
That's why there are two groups.

Only a portion of developers in the GWT group deploy on App Engine, just as
it is true only a portion of developers using App Engine choose GWT for
their front-end framework.

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On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Robert Kluin  wrote:

> Aside from internet focused products made / provided by Google, I am
> not sure there is a relationship between the two.  One is an
> application hosting platform, the other is a client side development
> tool.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 21:32, Thuy Nhien  wrote:
> > Thanks Robert! But why do we have 2 seperated Google groups about two
> > related components of a software suite?
> >
> > On Jan 7, 12:42 am, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> >> GWT: client side.http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/overview.html
> >>
> >> GAE: server side.
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/whatisgoogleappengine.html
> >>
> >> Robert
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thuy Nhien DOAN
> > Mobile phone: +84 923 862 630
> > OFFSHORING 2.1:
> http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_13400954319&ap=1
> > -
> > “Your heart is my piñata.”
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> >
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Verify Your Account by SMS: The phone number has been sent too many messages or has already been used to confirm an account.

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

Please submit an issue with the SMS issues form. You can find the link by
searching this group:

http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/search?group=google-appengine&q=sms+issues&qt_g=Search+this+group

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On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:38 AM, ZS  wrote:

> Hi All,
> when I try to get my *verification code,* I see this error:
>
> *The phone number has been sent too many messages or has already been used
> to confirm an account.
> *
> I already used my mobile number to get a *verification code*, but I've
> deleted my old Google account. Can you remove my mobile number from the
> Google database, please?
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Search Engine in GAE

[Davide Cerbo]

Give a look to http://code.google.com/p/gaelucene/

But there are some limitation on it.

My suggest maybe an hybrid solution with Solr or similar installed on
another server like Amazon or a VPS and the other parts of applicazion
on GAE.

bye,
Davide

2011/1/6 William_SO :
> Hello Guys
>
> Firstly a Happy New Year to everyone!
>
> I'm in need of help. I want to use a search engine (Lucene, Solr,
> Sphinx ...) in the GAE.
> But I'm having some trouble doing this.
> Does anyone have any idea how I do it?
>
> Grateful to everyone now.
>
> Hugs,
> William Santos de Oliveira.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Domain redirect failing

[Tommy]

This problem has been fixed.  Even though it looked like we had a CNAME 
record, somehow it got messed up.  It was actually inconsistent in that it 
sometimes worked and sometimes didn't.  I guess some servers had a valid 
record and some had a bad one or none at all.  Eventually the record 
disappeared completely.

So our hosting service refreshed the CNAME record.  Once it had time to 
propagate, it seemed to start working consistently again.

Thank you to everyone who helped us with this yesterday.

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[google-appengine] Re: Search Engine in GAE

[Sahid Orentino Ferdjaoui]

Hello William,

Happy New Year you too.

For my part, i use a third part server on AWS with Sorl.
I have a handler in my app to make the possibility has Solr to get a delta 
import every each time by a cron (you need to implement a security system).
About the search, I use 'urlfetch' to make a query in Solr. It returns only 
all keys matched.

In python you have also "Python Whoosh". (I have read an example from Ikai.)
Also i think 
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/source/browse/trunk/python/google/appengine/api/matcher/matcher.py?r=126
 is 
also a possibility,
but it is not implemented in prod... (has confirmed).

--sahid


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Announcing the High Replication Datastore for App Engine

[Stephen Johnson]

In Ikai's post he says it takes
  "the average replication lag is about 3 minutes with an upper bound of 10
minutes." He says "minutes" not milliseconds.

   so that's not 3000ms to 1ms, that is 18ms to 60ms

if I'm reading your comments correctly. So is it minutes or milliseconds???

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:19 AM, Stephen  wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, January 7, 2011 12:04:36 AM UTC, Ikai Lan (Google) wrote:
>>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> The times I gave earlier were estimates of how much replication delay is
>> introduced in each replication scheme. The "eventually consistent" flag is
>> for reads only and dictates whether or not you care to read from the
>> "Master" datastore - reads will go to a slave if there are issues reaching
>> the master.
>>
>
> Ah, I misread your original answer as relating only to the high replication
> datastore - thanks.
>
> This is kind of a surprising answer: replication between data centres
> (hi-rep) takes 100ms; replication within a data centre (M/S) takes
> 3000-1ms.  I suppose this is a trade-off: because the default for MS is
> strong consistency you can sacrifice replication lag for higher
> throughput...?
>
> After I asked the question I came across the original blog announcement for
> the EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT option, and it already contains the answer:
>
>
> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2010/03/read-consistency-deadlines-more-control.html
>
>   "The secondary location may not have all of the changes made to the
> primary location at the time the data is read, but it should be very close.
> In the most common case, it will have all of the changes, and for a small
> percentage of requests, it may be a few hundred milliseconds to a few
> seconds behind."
>
> Which is somewhat different than an avg of 3000ms and up to 1ms. The
> figures from the blog post suggests to me that a query with the
> EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT flag is basically not-quite-transactional, where as
> the latest figures of 3-10mins sounds more like stale results. Is this a
> policy change?
>
> Regardless, it would be good to have these figures directly in the docs to
> help folks decide when they can use this feature and to decide between
> hi-rep and m/s.
>
> Couple of other questions related to this:
>
> - What percentage of reads block due to unavailability of a primary? That
> is, how often is setting the EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT flag likely to make any
> difference at all?
>
> - For reads which do block, what is the average wait time for successful
> waits and the failure rate for reads which timeout (without an explicitly
> set deadline)?
>
> - And, how is unavailability of a primary determined? Is it a time out, and
> if so, how long? (I would use this figure to help determine a suitable
> deadline for queries which I want to fail over with eventual consistency.)
>
> Thanks.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Announcing the High Replication Datastore for App Engine

[Stephen]

On Friday, January 7, 2011 5:51:06 PM UTC, Stephen Johnson wrote:
>
> In Ikai's post he says it takes
>   "the average replication lag is about 3 minutes with an upper bound of 10 
> minutes." He says "minutes" not milliseconds.
>
>so that's not 3000ms to 1ms, that is 18ms to 60ms
>
> if I'm reading your comments correctly. So is it minutes or milliseconds???
>

Yes, I should have wrote '3-10 minutes'. 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Announcing the High Replication Datastore for App Engine

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

Thanks for the update, Stephen (I am now realizing that there are 2 Stephens
in this thread and that you were not having a dialogue in public with
yourself)! I misspoke earlier: the numbers I cited were latency numbers in
the event of a failure in the Slave datastore. The actual numbers for the
majority (99+%) of requests is still a few hundred milliseconds. In most
cases, replication is even synchronous. It's in the error cases where the
average replication lag is 3 minutes.

- The number of errors is less than a fraction of a fraction of a fraction
of a percent. I don't think a percent number makes sense here: it's the fact
that the errors are not evenly distributed. That is - a request that blocks
due to unavailability is likely to follow be several requests and lead to a
sudden spike of instability in your application that may depend on many
small, fast calls.

To answer your last two questions, it makes more sense to explain how
eventually consistent reads work:

1. Fire off an RPC to the datastore service internally.
2. Wait a grace period for this RPC to return. This grace period is in the
tens of milliseconds. Most requests (99+%) will return in a time that is
far, far under this grace period
3. If the grace period has been surpassed, we send out an RPC to the slave
datastore. Now - we just wait to see who returned first: the original RPC to
the master datastore or the second RPC to the slave datastore. Again, in
most cases, the master datastore is likely to respond first simply because
it was given a head start

I really appreciate you asking for clarification. This is confusing, and
your questions have given us some good direction about how to improve the
documentation.

--
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Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine



On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Stephen  wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, January 7, 2011 12:04:36 AM UTC, Ikai Lan (Google) wrote:
>>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> The times I gave earlier were estimates of how much replication delay is
>> introduced in each replication scheme. The "eventually consistent" flag is
>> for reads only and dictates whether or not you care to read from the
>> "Master" datastore - reads will go to a slave if there are issues reaching
>> the master.
>>
>
> Ah, I misread your original answer as relating only to the high replication
> datastore - thanks.
>
> This is kind of a surprising answer: replication between data centres
> (hi-rep) takes 100ms; replication within a data centre (M/S) takes
> 3000-1ms.  I suppose this is a trade-off: because the default for MS is
> strong consistency you can sacrifice replication lag for higher
> throughput...?
>
> After I asked the question I came across the original blog announcement for
> the EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT option, and it already contains the answer:
>
>
> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2010/03/read-consistency-deadlines-more-control.html
>
>   "The secondary location may not have all of the changes made to the
> primary location at the time the data is read, but it should be very close.
> In the most common case, it will have all of the changes, and for a small
> percentage of requests, it may be a few hundred milliseconds to a few
> seconds behind."
>
> Which is somewhat different than an avg of 3000ms and up to 1ms. The
> figures from the blog post suggests to me that a query with the
> EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT flag is basically not-quite-transactional, where as
> the latest figures of 3-10mins sounds more like stale results. Is this a
> policy change?
>
> Regardless, it would be good to have these figures directly in the docs to
> help folks decide when they can use this feature and to decide between
> hi-rep and m/s.
>
> Couple of other questions related to this:
>
> - What percentage of reads block due to unavailability of a primary? That
> is, how often is setting the EVENTUALLY_CONSISTENT flag likely to make any
> difference at all?
>
> - For reads which do block, what is the average wait time for successful
> waits and the failure rate for reads which timeout (without an explicitly
> set deadline)?
>
> - And, how is unavailability of a primary determined? Is it a time out, and
> if so, how long? (I would use this figure to help determine a suitable
> deadline for queries which I want to fail over with eventual consistency.)
>
> Thanks.
>
>  --
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> "Google App Engine" group.
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Announcing the High Replication Datastore for App Engine

[Waldemar Kornewald]

Hi Ikai,

On Friday, January 7, 2011 12:09:24 AM UTC+1, Ikai Lan (Google) wrote:
>
> Hey guys, some answers to your questions that we've compiled from various 
> team members (mostly Alfred, presenter of "Next Gen Queries" and the fourth 
> one from the left in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg0TEIRQePg
> ):
>
> - Typically, how long does it take for HR query data to become consistent 
> (a ballpark figure)?
>
> 100ms is the estimate. However - we have seen cases where this can be 
> higher. If you were to use the eventual consistency read option in the 
> master-slave configuration, we've seen that the average replication lag is 
> about 3 minutes with an upper bound of 10 minutes.
>

Does the eventual consistency lag only affect DB indexes (i.e. the query 
results contain up-to-date entities as if fetched via db.get(), but they 
might not really match the query, anymore)? Or does the lag affect the 
actual entity data returned by the query (i.e. the results contain 
*outdated* entities, IOW returning older data than db.get())?

Bye,
Waldemar Kornewald

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Announcing the High Replication Datastore for App Engine

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

The replication lag affects actual entity data as well as indexes.

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Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine



On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Waldemar Kornewald wrote:

> Hi Ikai,
>
> On Friday, January 7, 2011 12:09:24 AM UTC+1, Ikai Lan (Google) wrote:
>>
>> Hey guys, some answers to your questions that we've compiled from various
>> team members (mostly Alfred, presenter of "Next Gen Queries" and the fourth
>> one from the left in this video
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg0TEIRQePg):
>>
>> - Typically, how long does it take for HR query data to become consistent
>> (a ballpark figure)?
>>
>> 100ms is the estimate. However - we have seen cases where this can be
>> higher. If you were to use the eventual consistency read option in the
>> master-slave configuration, we've seen that the average replication lag is
>> about 3 minutes with an upper bound of 10 minutes.
>>
>
> Does the eventual consistency lag only affect DB indexes (i.e. the query
> results contain up-to-date entities as if fetched via db.get(), but they
> might not really match the query, anymore)? Or does the lag affect the
> actual entity data returned by the query (i.e. the results contain
> *outdated* entities, IOW returning older data than db.get())?
>
> Bye,
> Waldemar Kornewald
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Very high task queue delays

[vlad]

Bump

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[google-appengine] Delete stranded account

[Mahron]

Hi,

I have an account I can not access anymore because of login problems due to 
email migration to google apps.

It is still showing up in the apps dashboard but it can not be disabled or 
anything else and is probably still running.

Is it possible to delete it somehow ?

...and maybe miraculously free the appid for it to be reused in high 
replication mode ? :)

thanks.


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[google-appengine] Re: Living on the web - Chrome Cr-48 quiz not starting up

[scisci]

This now appears to be fixed.


On Jan 5, 5:42 pm, harijay  wrote:
> Hi I just tried to use the living on the web Quiz . However the application
> refused to start despite a few attempts. My Browser is Chrome (8.0.552.224).
> After a few tried it directed me to this page and asked that I report the
> problem.
>
> Hope this helps
> Hari

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[google-appengine] Limit on length of characters in Text property

[Nicky]

It seems that the Text property is limited to 100 characters. I can't 
find this in the documentation but I hit this exception below. Can anyone 
confirm this?


   1. 
   
   Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: string property contents is 
too long.  It cannot exceed 100 characters.
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreApiHelper.translateError(DatastoreApiHelper.java:36)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreApiHelper$1.convertException(DatastoreApiHelper.java:98)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.utils.FutureWrapper.get(FutureWrapper.java:69)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper$CumulativeAggregateFuture.get(FutureHelper.java:136)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper.getInternal(FutureHelper.java:71)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper.quietGet(FutureHelper.java:32)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl$2.runInternal(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:113)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl$2.runInternal(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:110)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.TransactionRunner.runInTransaction(TransactionRunner.java:31)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl.put(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:110)
at 
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl.put(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:94)
   
   
   2. E01-07 02:00PM 13.585
   
   
   at 
org.datanucleus.store.appengine.RuntimeExceptionWrappingDatastoreService.put(RuntimeExceptionWrappingDatastoreService.java:93)
at 
org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:180)
at 
org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:139)
at 
org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:134)
at 
org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.updateObject(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:536)
at 
org.datanucleus.state.JDOStateManagerImpl.flush(JDOStateManagerImpl.java:4576)
at 
org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.flushInternal(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2814)
at org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.flush(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2754)
at 
org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.preCommit(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2893)
at 
org.datanucleus.TransactionImpl.internalPreCommit(TransactionImpl.java:369)
at org.datanucleus.TransactionImpl.commit(TransactionImpl.java:256)
at org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.close(ObjectManagerImpl.java:801)
at 
org.datanucleus.jdo.JDOPersistenceManager.close(JDOPersistenceManager.java:271)
... 39 more
   
   

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[google-appengine] Re: Appengine's Turkey problem

[Kaan Soral]

Thanks for the help, it solves the problem

On Dec 19 2010, 1:49 am, Ufuk Kayserilioglu 
wrote:
> Robert,
>
> You are right, and that is exactly the reason why GAE is blocked right now.
> I am afraid Kaan is a little behind the times with the YouTube ban, which
> has since been lifted. The most recent ban, that also affects one of the IP
> addresses that ghs.google.com resolves to, is related to a copyright
> violation by a site running on GAE or Blogger. For people who are interested
> (and can read Turkish), you can find a copy of the court order 
> here:http://imgur.com/gYzPl.jpg. The IP address 74.125.43.121 is clearly
> visible.
>
> Kaan,
>
> Turkish authorities have reverted to blocking IP address for good now. I
> don't think they will change that soon, since they have seen DNS blocking
> does not work as they want (too easy to circumvent). About your reachability
> problem, I am afraid there is hardly anything Google can do about it. I know
> it is frustrating (I have an app or two on GAE as well) but as others have
> said there are ways around it:
>
>    1. You can go the reverse proxy route. Others have suggested (I am afraid
>    I don't remember who) on this very mailing list, to use a small Linux VPS
>    instance on RackSpace to setup a reverse proxy for your site. It seems the
>    ping times from there to GAE are very low and the cost is only around $10 a
>    month. I already had some Windows services hosted on an EC2 instance on AWS
>    and set up ARR on the IIS7 server to do the reverse proxy in about 10
>    minutes, and haven't looked back.
>    2. I came upon an alternative just the other day. It appears that if you
>    set your DNS records to point to one of alternate the IP addresses of
>    ghs.google.com, you won't have any problems. (source:
>    http://www.burcakcubukcu.com/2010/12/bloggerda-bulunan-alan-adl-sitem...)
>    Now, I haven't tried this myself, but I presume it would work for GAE as
>    well. I suggest you setup an A record for yourself such as "
>    redirect.example.com" with the IP address contained in the linked article
>    and CNAME you primary site (let's say "www.example.com" to "
>    redirect.example.com"). If, and, hopefully, when, the ban is lifted, you
>    can change the "redirect.example.com" from an A record to a CNAME record
>    that points to "ghs.google.com" and you will be all set. YMMV, though.
>
> Best,
>
> Ufuk
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:20 AM, Robert Kluin wrote:
>
> > So what happens when they find an app hosted on App Engine they don't
> > like and block that?
>
> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 14:57, Kaan Soral  wrote:
> > > Actually Turkey doesn't block google, they block Youtube IP's, so the
> > > problem is probebly caused by shared IP's.
>
> > > So in my opinion the problem can be solved if Google uses seperate
> > > IP's for components.
>
> > > And for government blocking, they normally block domain names rather
> > > than IP's but for some reason they only block Youtube IP's because
> > > people just enter the site using seperate DNS etc.
>
> > > On Dec 17, 2:29 am, Tim Hoffman  wrote:
> > >> Hi
>
> > >> I don't really believe it is solvable by google.
>
> > >> If they add a new pool of addresses for appengine, and some apps turn up
> > on
> > >> appengine that
> > >> any particular government doesn't like, they will block access to that
> > range
> > >> and you are
> > >> back in the same situation.
>
> > >> All anyone can do is educate and lobby their government.
>
> > >> Rgds
>
> > >> Tim Hoffman
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.

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[google-appengine] Uploading alternate version not updating

[InspiradoGames]

Hi,

I've been making changes to the CSS of our app for the last few days. 
Everything has been updating fine until today. Now App Engine is only 
serving older revisions of the version I'm updating.

I've tried with SDK 1.4.0 and 1.4.1, with and without --no_precompilation. 
I've also tried reducing the expiration time in app.yaml for static files 
with no success. I finally tried to delete the version entirely and upload 
my latest code, but even that didn't work. I'd be surprised if it's a 
browser cache issue, since I've asked several people to try it and Adobe's 
BrowserLab gives the same results. I've tried the URL with and without the 
"latest" revision (minor version?) included. Is there an issue with updating 
alternate versions starting sometime today, or am I missing something silly?

Thanks!

~Owen

App-ID: gardenmind-beta
Version: 2-dev

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Re: [google-appengine] Limit on length of characters in Text property

[风笑雪]

Hi Nicky,

The max size of an entity is 1MB, so all of its properties cannot exceed
100 bytes.

--
keakon

My blog(Chinese): www.keakon.net
Blog source code: https://bitbucket.org/keakon/doodle/



On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:13 AM, Nicky  wrote:

> It seems that the Text property is limited to 100 characters. I can't
> find this in the documentation but I hit this exception below. Can anyone
> confirm this?
>
>
>1.
>
>Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: string property contents is 
> too long.  It cannot exceed 100 characters.
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreApiHelper.translateError(DatastoreApiHelper.java:36)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreApiHelper$1.convertException(DatastoreApiHelper.java:98)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.utils.FutureWrapper.get(FutureWrapper.java:69)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper$CumulativeAggregateFuture.get(FutureHelper.java:136)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper.getInternal(FutureHelper.java:71)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper.quietGet(FutureHelper.java:32)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl$2.runInternal(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:113)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl$2.runInternal(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:110)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.TransactionRunner.runInTransaction(TransactionRunner.java:31)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl.put(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:110)
>   at 
> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl.put(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:94)
>
>
>2. E01-07 02:00PM 13.585
>
>
>at 
> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.RuntimeExceptionWrappingDatastoreService.put(RuntimeExceptionWrappingDatastoreService.java:93)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:180)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:139)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:134)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.updateObject(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:536)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.state.JDOStateManagerImpl.flush(JDOStateManagerImpl.java:4576)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.flushInternal(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2814)
>   at org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.flush(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2754)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.preCommit(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2893)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.TransactionImpl.internalPreCommit(TransactionImpl.java:369)
>   at org.datanucleus.TransactionImpl.commit(TransactionImpl.java:256)
>   at org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.close(ObjectManagerImpl.java:801)
>   at 
> org.datanucleus.jdo.JDOPersistenceManager.close(JDOPersistenceManager.java:271)
>   ... 39 more
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Limit on length of characters in Text property

[A. Stevko]

I can't say for sure but I believe I've stored more than 1 MB into a Text
data member.

According to the
javadoc
Text
types are not limited to the 1MB max Entity size limit.

Text wraps around a string of unlimited size. Ordinary Java strings stored
> as properties in Entity objects are limited to 500 characters. However,
> Text objects can also be stored in properties, and are unlimited in size.
> However, they will not be indexed for query purposes.


>


On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:05 PM, 风笑雪  wrote:

> Hi Nicky,
>
> The max size of an entity is 1MB, so all of its properties cannot exceed
> 100 bytes.
>
> --
> keakon
>
> My blog(Chinese): www.keakon.net
> Blog source code: https://bitbucket.org/keakon/doodle/
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 6:13 AM, Nicky  wrote:
>
>> It seems that the Text property is limited to 100 characters. I can't
>> find this in the documentation but I hit this exception below. Can anyone
>> confirm this?
>>
>>
>>1.
>>
>>Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: string property contents 
>> is too long.  It cannot exceed 100 characters.
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreApiHelper.translateError(DatastoreApiHelper.java:36)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreApiHelper$1.convertException(DatastoreApiHelper.java:98)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.utils.FutureWrapper.get(FutureWrapper.java:69)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper$CumulativeAggregateFuture.get(FutureHelper.java:136)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper.getInternal(FutureHelper.java:71)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.FutureHelper.quietGet(FutureHelper.java:32)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl$2.runInternal(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:113)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl$2.runInternal(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:110)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.TransactionRunner.runInTransaction(TransactionRunner.java:31)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl.put(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:110)
>>  at 
>> com.google.appengine.api.datastore.DatastoreServiceImpl.put(DatastoreServiceImpl.java:94)
>>
>>
>>2.  E01-07 02:00PM 13.585
>>
>>
>>at 
>> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.RuntimeExceptionWrappingDatastoreService.put(RuntimeExceptionWrappingDatastoreService.java:93)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:180)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:139)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.put(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:134)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.store.appengine.DatastorePersistenceHandler.updateObject(DatastorePersistenceHandler.java:536)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.state.JDOStateManagerImpl.flush(JDOStateManagerImpl.java:4576)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.flushInternal(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2814)
>>  at org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.flush(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2754)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.preCommit(ObjectManagerImpl.java:2893)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.TransactionImpl.internalPreCommit(TransactionImpl.java:369)
>>  at org.datanucleus.TransactionImpl.commit(TransactionImpl.java:256)
>>  at org.datanucleus.ObjectManagerImpl.close(ObjectManagerImpl.java:801)
>>  at 
>> org.datanucleus.jdo.JDOPersistenceManager.close(JDOPersistenceManager.java:271)
>>  ... 39 more
>>
>>
>>  --
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>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
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-- 
-- A. Stevko
===
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." M.
Andretti

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