Re: [google-appengine] Re: "One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google"
I agree. I thought that article was basically a fluff piece written by
someone who has never actually used GAE.
Nobody ever cared about the "subset of Java" issue except Sun who, as
non-users, count only as whiners ("no, Java's mine, you have to use it the
way I want!"). And the very old version of python was fixed (2.7, well,
yes, it's still old but let's face it half the Python community hasn't made
it to 3.0 yet).
IMHO, the biggest issue is that human beings are slow to adopt new things.
Most web developers never move beyond the first stack they learn (usually
LAMP or Rails). Ask them to go outside of their MySQL comfort zone and they
get all nervous and sweaty. GAE is something different, and the truth is
that even programmers are a conservative lot.
There are real problems with GAE (those two items chief among them) but I
think the main reason Google is focusing so much on Compute Engine instead
of GAE is that the vast bulk of developers haven't bought into the concept
of PaaS yet. They've just barely made the mental transition off of
colocated boxes. IaaS is an easier sell, even if it's a dumb choice.
Jeff
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Tapir wrote:
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:11:15 AM UTC+8, Emanuele Ziglioli wrote:
>
>> I would find hard to disagree:
>>
>> *IBM, Google, and Oracle are all equally at pains to deliver a message
>>> that makes them uniquely attractive. In this regard, Google's inability to
>>> recover from the botched roll-out of Google App Engine (GAE) will surely go
>>> down as one of the oddest business cases. It launched the product with
>>> great fanfare. But developers who flocked to it initially found a difficult
>>> platform that supported only a subset of Java and a very old version of
>>> Python. Moreover, the interfaces to the proprietary database were poorly
>>> thought out, so that almost everything in GAE required platform-specific
>>> code-arounds. While GAE has improved in a limited sense since then, Google
>>> has not done what Microsoft did — revamp the product from top to bottom to
>>> make it easy to use. Nor has it leveraged its natural connection to
>>> developers. One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google.*
>>
>>
>> http://www.drdobbs.com/cloud/whose-cloud-will-you-use/240169229
>>
>
> GAE really has two problems, neither of them are belong to what mentioned
> in this article. On the contrary, what mentioned the article are really
> good point, IMO.
>
> The two problems are:
> 1. high price, for both instance hours and bigtable operations.
> 2. long Java instance startup time.
>
> In my GAE experience, it is very reliable. BigTable is very powerful and
> easy to use.
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: "One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google"
Google officially 'abandoned' this forum when they moved general support to stackoverflow, so that's nothing new. And let's be honest, there was really only one person reliably following this forum before then - Ikai. Occasionally other @google.com folks would chime in but it was pretty much a one man show, and that one man wanted a change. It happens. The bigger reason to suspect diminishing commitment to GAE (other than fairly slow pace of new feature rollouts) is that GAE gets little mention at I/O. On the other hand, Google is going "big" into cloud services in general, and GAE is now just one part of that offering. On the plus side, GAE benefits a lot by riding that wave - managed VMs, datastore integration with Compute Engine, a whole new admin console, etc. On the downside, I'm guessing there's a lot of institutional distraction, and all the "cool kids" want to work on Compute Engine or whatnot. And let's not forget that GAE rolled out PHP relatively recently. That must have taken a lot of development effort (sigh). Jeff On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:55 AM, PK wrote: > Here are some of my thoughts on topics raised in this thread: > > 1. Google has definitely abandoned this forum, no doubt about this… I am > not sure if this is on purpose to force more people to buy paid support or > just because of lack of leadership/ownership as @pdknsk suggests. But it is > a fact. > 2. However, abandoning the forum is not the same as Google abandoning > Google App Engine. By many of my metrics GAE has been improving, I admit > not with the pace I would have liked but it has been improving. > 3. The arguments used to reach the conclusion of the paragraph cited > mostly do not resonate with me. However, the conclusion does. > 4. But so what? 89% of Google's revenue still comes from advertising. > Even when it comes to cloud computing, the big battle is happening in IaaS > and not in PaaS, and there AWS is the major player. So it is to be expected > that GAE is not a major priority. But again so what? Google has about > 45,000 full time employees. What if only, let’s say, 250 employees—I made > this number up---work directly on GAE? It is a minor priority but it could > still be a great platform especially when it leverages the Google > infrastructure. > > So, I remain cautiously optimistic…. > > PK > http://www.gae123.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[google-appengine] Re: "One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google"
On Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:11:15 AM UTC+8, Emanuele Ziglioli wrote: > I would find hard to disagree: > > *IBM, Google, and Oracle are all equally at pains to deliver a message >> that makes them uniquely attractive. In this regard, Google's inability to >> recover from the botched roll-out of Google App Engine (GAE) will surely go >> down as one of the oddest business cases. It launched the product with >> great fanfare. But developers who flocked to it initially found a difficult >> platform that supported only a subset of Java and a very old version of >> Python. Moreover, the interfaces to the proprietary database were poorly >> thought out, so that almost everything in GAE required platform-specific >> code-arounds. While GAE has improved in a limited sense since then, Google >> has not done what Microsoft did — revamp the product from top to bottom to >> make it easy to use. Nor has it leveraged its natural connection to >> developers. One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google.* > > > http://www.drdobbs.com/cloud/whose-cloud-will-you-use/240169229 > GAE really has two problems, neither of them are belong to what mentioned in this article. On the contrary, what mentioned the article are really good point, IMO. The two problems are: 1. high price, for both instance hours and bigtable operations. 2. long Java instance startup time. In my GAE experience, it is very reliable. BigTable is very powerful and easy to use. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: "One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google"
Here are some of my thoughts on topics raised in this thread: 1. Google has definitely abandoned this forum, no doubt about this… I am not sure if this is on purpose to force more people to buy paid support or just because of lack of leadership/ownership as @pdknsk suggests. But it is a fact. 2. However, abandoning the forum is not the same as Google abandoning Google App Engine. By many of my metrics GAE has been improving, I admit not with the pace I would have liked but it has been improving. 3. The arguments used to reach the conclusion of the paragraph cited mostly do not resonate with me. However, the conclusion does. 4. But so what? 89% of Google's revenue still comes from advertising. Even when it comes to cloud computing, the big battle is happening in IaaS and not in PaaS, and there AWS is the major player. So it is to be expected that GAE is not a major priority. But again so what? Google has about 45,000 full time employees. What if only, let’s say, 250 employees—I made this number up---work directly on GAE? It is a minor priority but it could still be a great platform especially when it leverages the Google infrastructure. So, I remain cautiously optimistic…. PK http://www.gae123.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[google-appengine] Re: "One senses GAE is just not a major priority for Google"
Well, it isn't a major priority, but maybe it doesn't need to be. I think the main problem is that nobody at Google seems to take ownership of App Engine. PMs are rotated in and out at high frequency. I have no insight of any kind, so I may be wrong. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
