Re: [google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-10-15 Thread 'Harmit Rishi (Cloud Platform Support)' via Google App Engine 


Hello Kaan,

Thank you for following up on Google Groups. We appreciate the time and 
effort users take in providing the information to us for processing their 
requests.

After reviewing your filed issues of not being able to track error logs 
before App-Engine, I was able to verify that the Feature Request you had 
filed has been reopened . I 
would like to let you know that all features regardless of their support 
level are always taken seriously. The implementation time of requested 
features depends on its complexity, feasibility and popularity. Please see 
the following link  
for more information on what to expect when you’ve opened an issue.

You had discussed the support process in your initial message, I would like 
to reassure you that our flexible support extends all users. For instance, 
our Support Options  
page provide a overview of what we offer (Basic, Role-Based, Enterprise). 
You can navigate to the “Free Support Resources” section of the page. This 
section provides users the ability to access Support Documentation 
, Reference Guides 
, Community Support 
 as well as Billing 
 and Phone 
Billing . 

Among the Free Support Resources discussed above, there is also a option 
called “Free Trial Technical Support 
”. Once you 
fill out the form and highlight which area you would like to receive 
Support in. You can usually expect the requested Support within 1 business 
day.

Our products and platforms rely on experienced users as yourself. Although 
the Feature Request (#112668010 ) 
has been reopened already. We encourage users to create Feature Requests 
and Issue Bug Reports 
 as this will help us 
make our products better.  


On Friday, October 12, 2018 at 4:45:56 AM UTC-4, Kaan Soral wrote:
>
> As a follow up, I've logged around 90 502/503 errors around `date: Thu, 11 
> Oct 2018 23:15:27 GMT` - Caused by multiple ~minutely outages, I personally 
> experienced one of them, and checked my logs/noticed the issue, it's been 
> happening a lot, but it's so much that I don't even bother to check any more
>
> *As usual, If you look at the App Engine error logs, you can't see any of 
> these errors or any signs*
>
> At this point it's no different than a fraud, I've reported this issue 
> more than 2 months ago, it should've been solved by now - I'm not saying 
> errors can't or shouldn't happen, but they should be transparent, hiding 
> errors and outages like this is a deception (my suggestion, add a new log 
> level, something like a "Network" level error, and log these in that 
> section, otherwise, these errors will flood everyone's logs)
>
> I don't even bother making SLA requests any more, the minuscule amounts of 
> compensations doesn't even make up for the time hunting these issues - and 
> things don't get better, only worse
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-10-12 Thread Kaan Soral 
As a follow up, I've logged around 90 502/503 errors around `date: Thu, 11 
Oct 2018 23:15:27 GMT` - Caused by multiple ~minutely outages, I personally 
experienced one of them, and checked my logs/noticed the issue, it's been 
happening a lot, but it's so much that I don't even bother to check any more

*As usual, If you look at the App Engine error logs, you can't see any of 
these errors or any signs*

At this point it's no different than a fraud, I've reported this issue more 
than 2 months ago, it should've been solved by now - I'm not saying errors 
can't or shouldn't happen, but they should be transparent, hiding errors 
and outages like this is a deception (my suggestion, add a new log level, 
something like a "Network" level error, and log these in that section, 
otherwise, these errors will flood everyone's logs)

I don't even bother making SLA requests any more, the minuscule amounts of 
compensations doesn't even make up for the time hunting these issues - and 
things don't get better, only worse

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-28 Thread 'Katayoon (Cloud Platform Support)' via Google App Engine 


Hi Kaan,

As mentioned in your feature request #112668010 
, I have forwarded your request 
to Cloud App Engine product team to be evaluated, however there is no ETA 
or guarantee of implementation. All further updates should occur there.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-28 Thread Kaan Soral 
An update

1) John Lowry adopted my issue and debugged it with me, he was very 
transparent and helpful and genuinely interested in helping

2) I improved my system, logged both Cloudflare wrapped and raw appspot.com 
500 errors, verified that these 500 issues do happen, and they are 
invisible to the logs (it's not a cloudflare issue, easier to observe with 
appspot.com)

*Result: If you are using App Engine, you might be losing traffic, losing 
customers, and as far as you and your logs are concerned, these issues are 
invisible - sadly, both from responses to issue, and my issue tracker 
threads (one example: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/112668010 - 
there are other major/minor issues reported by me, none of them are solved, 
usually the responses are aimed to stonewall issues ) - None of these 
issues are being solved, no one is interested in improving anything it 
seems*

This specific issue is in the network layer, so basically, the problem is 
that, it's not being propagated to App Engine logs, it's a major breach of 
trust in my opinion, I'm not complaining about errors, errors do happen, 
apps should adapt, but the problem is, if you can't observe errors, you 
can't adapt, I'm only able to log these issues by catching them (appengine 
is down when you catch them) - keep them for 40 seconds, and report them 
after 40 seconds, at which time, assumably the network is back up, so maybe 
my logging logic is failing, maybe the network isn't back up after 40 
seconds, and I'm missing some of them too, I can't know, I likely need a 
3rd party logging solution

The most saddening aspect is, I again invested a lot of my time and energy 
in debugging the issue, helping find the cause, trying my best, yet, has 
anything changed? Nope.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-13 Thread Maximiliano Contartesi 
We also had that problem with cloudflare.

Is very diffuclt identify these problems with the proxy.

For this reason we decided to remove cloudflare from all our services.


Maximiliano Contartesi | mcontart...@tecnogo.com | +54 11 5680-3350 |
www.tecnogo.com



El lun., 13 de ago. de 2018 a la(s) 15:50, 'John Lowry' via Google App
Engine (google-appengine@googlegroups.com) escribió:

> Hi Kaan,
>
> Sorry that you're experiencing these issues.
>
> As Attila-Mihaly Balazs pointed out above, intermittent network issues are
> very difficult to debug.
>
> I'm going to grab your support case (16573520) and will follow up
> privately to help you get to the bottom of this issue.
>
> To help others who may be experiencing similar issues, it can be useful to
> understand the network path. In this case, it is:
>
> Client -> ISP network -> Cloudflare -> Maglev (Google network load
> balancer) -> Google Frontend -> Cloud Load Balancer -> App Engine traffic
> router -> Appserver -> App
>
> The server side logs are written by the Appserver, but requests can fail
> at any layer along the path above, and the errors won't necessarily get
> plumbed back to your app.
>
> It helps to have good client-side monitoring to try to figure out the
> commonalities between the clients that are experiencing the problems.
>
> On the Google side, we have increasingly good logging and monitoring the
> further upstream the request reaches.
>
> The troubleshooting methodology will be to try to get as much information
> from you on the problem experienced by clients and then try to figure out
> which layer of the stack is most likely to be the culprit. We can then dig
> into logs and monitoring at that layer in the stack.
>
> For example, if the client gets an HTTP response from the GFE then it will
> be clearly labelled as such in the response headers and we know that the
> request reached Google's network.
>
> If the client does not get an HTTP response then the problem most likely
> occurred before the GFE.
>
> We recognize that this is a pain point for customers and are looking at
> ways to make this easier to debug.
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 6:45:02 AM UTC-7, Kaan Soral wrote:
>>
>> For almost 10** years
>>
>> On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 4:44:02 PM UTC+3, Kaan Soral wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, but the main problem is requests not reaching the logs, or appengine
>>>
>>> By the way, the new support strategy is now loop+exhaust
>>>
>>> Whenever I open a support ticket, I'm being looped to another place, in
>>> my last attempt, I've been told this issue is not covered by SLA's:
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-appengine-downtime-notify/wiXNbETOYgA
>>>  (full
>>> downtime, and not covered, bizarre) - and I need to open a ticket on the
>>> cloud platform sla page
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm exhausted
>>>
>>> This is coming from someone who has been using App Engine *for almost a
>>> year**, I've been using App Engine in simpler and simpler ways over the
>>> times, as anything complex, and you hit issues that were hard to debug in
>>> the past, and with the current support levels, almost impossible, for my
>>> next project, I'll try not using App Engine at all, I don't know whether I
>>> can dump my experience/knowledge of the platform, but I'll certainly try,
>>> it's very saddening :(
>>>
>>> I really wish we could regain the dynamism of the older days, where we
>>> got actual helped and found solutions to the problems, rather than passing
>>> the day and ignoring issues
>>>
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> .
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[google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-13 Thread 'John Lowry' via Google App Engine 
Hi Kaan,

Sorry that you're experiencing these issues.

As Attila-Mihaly Balazs pointed out above, intermittent network issues are 
very difficult to debug.

I'm going to grab your support case (16573520) and will follow up privately 
to help you get to the bottom of this issue.

To help others who may be experiencing similar issues, it can be useful to 
understand the network path. In this case, it is:

Client -> ISP network -> Cloudflare -> Maglev (Google network load 
balancer) -> Google Frontend -> Cloud Load Balancer -> App Engine traffic 
router -> Appserver -> App

The server side logs are written by the Appserver, but requests can fail at 
any layer along the path above, and the errors won't necessarily get 
plumbed back to your app.

It helps to have good client-side monitoring to try to figure out the 
commonalities between the clients that are experiencing the problems. 

On the Google side, we have increasingly good logging and monitoring the 
further upstream the request reaches.

The troubleshooting methodology will be to try to get as much information 
from you on the problem experienced by clients and then try to figure out 
which layer of the stack is most likely to be the culprit. We can then dig 
into logs and monitoring at that layer in the stack.

For example, if the client gets an HTTP response from the GFE then it will 
be clearly labelled as such in the response headers and we know that the 
request reached Google's network.

If the client does not get an HTTP response then the problem most likely 
occurred before the GFE.

We recognize that this is a pain point for customers and are looking at 
ways to make this easier to debug.



On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 6:45:02 AM UTC-7, Kaan Soral wrote:
>
> For almost 10** years
>
> On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 4:44:02 PM UTC+3, Kaan Soral wrote:
>>
>> Yes, but the main problem is requests not reaching the logs, or appengine
>>
>> By the way, the new support strategy is now loop+exhaust
>>
>> Whenever I open a support ticket, I'm being looped to another place, in 
>> my last attempt, I've been told this issue is not covered by SLA's: 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-appengine-downtime-notify/wiXNbETOYgA
>>  (full 
>> downtime, and not covered, bizarre) - and I need to open a ticket on the 
>> cloud platform sla page
>>
>> Anyway, I'm exhausted
>>
>> This is coming from someone who has been using App Engine *for almost a 
>> year**, I've been using App Engine in simpler and simpler ways over the 
>> times, as anything complex, and you hit issues that were hard to debug in 
>> the past, and with the current support levels, almost impossible, for my 
>> next project, I'll try not using App Engine at all, I don't know whether I 
>> can dump my experience/knowledge of the platform, but I'll certainly try, 
>> it's very saddening :(
>>
>> I really wish we could regain the dynamism of the older days, where we 
>> got actual helped and found solutions to the problems, rather than passing 
>> the day and ignoring issues
>>
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-13 Thread Kaan Soral 
For almost 10** years

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 4:44:02 PM UTC+3, Kaan Soral wrote:
>
> Yes, but the main problem is requests not reaching the logs, or appengine
>
> By the way, the new support strategy is now loop+exhaust
>
> Whenever I open a support ticket, I'm being looped to another place, in my 
> last attempt, I've been told this issue is not covered by SLA's: 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-appengine-downtime-notify/wiXNbETOYgA
>  (full 
> downtime, and not covered, bizarre) - and I need to open a ticket on the 
> cloud platform sla page
>
> Anyway, I'm exhausted
>
> This is coming from someone who has been using App Engine *for almost a 
> year**, I've been using App Engine in simpler and simpler ways over the 
> times, as anything complex, and you hit issues that were hard to debug in 
> the past, and with the current support levels, almost impossible, for my 
> next project, I'll try not using App Engine at all, I don't know whether I 
> can dump my experience/knowledge of the platform, but I'll certainly try, 
> it's very saddening :(
>
> I really wish we could regain the dynamism of the older days, where we got 
> actual helped and found solutions to the problems, rather than passing the 
> day and ignoring issues
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-13 Thread Kaan Soral 
Yes, but the main problem is requests not reaching the logs, or appengine

By the way, the new support strategy is now loop+exhaust

Whenever I open a support ticket, I'm being looped to another place, in my 
last attempt, I've been told this issue is not covered by SLA's: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-appengine-downtime-notify/wiXNbETOYgA
 (full 
downtime, and not covered, bizarre) - and I need to open a ticket on the 
cloud platform sla page

Anyway, I'm exhausted

This is coming from someone who has been using App Engine for almost a 
year, I've been using App Engine in simpler and simpler ways over the 
times, as anything complex, and you hit issues that were hard to debug in 
the past, and with the current support levels, almost impossible, for my 
next project, I'll try not using App Engine at all, I don't know whether I 
can dump my experience/knowledge of the platform, but I'll certainly try, 
it's very saddening :(

I really wish we could regain the dynamism of the older days, where we got 
actual helped and found solutions to the problems, rather than passing the 
day and ignoring issues

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[google-appengine] Re: Extremely dissatisfied with App Engine lately, Network Issues, Support doesn't help and loops

2018-08-07 Thread Attila-Mihaly Balazs 
Just adding my two cents here: yes, debugging connectivity problems with 
AppEngine can be very frustrating - but in my book that's just the price I 
pay for not needing and IT department 99.999% of the time :)

Also, regarding your Cloudflare comment: you get the 
"x-cloud-trace-context" header in your GAE responses which can be used to 
find it in the logs.

All the best,
Attila

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