Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
If you're trying to create a write-through cache, you may want to look at
this code:
http://code.google.com/p/objectify-appengine/source/browse/trunk/src/com/googlecode/objectify/cache/CachingAsyncDatastoreService.java
It will remain transactionally locked to the datastore except in one
condition: a DeadlineExceededException. As long as you don't get a hard
cutoff, no amount of write contention can cause it to go out of sync. It
doesn't require a write lock, but it does make heavy use of CAS. And
transactions ignore the cache until commit, which is really the appropriate
behavior.
Jeff
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Crizegg wrote:
> Looking into this solution, I've jumped farther down the rabbit hole
> than anticipated. First off, memcache write failures are not very
> common and neglecting to use compare and set was probably the main
> source of my issues.
> However memcache writes can still fail and regardless of whether they
> throw errors, can cause stale data in race conditions. Also, since gae
> transactions live solely within the datastore, you cannot solve this
> problem elegantly with transactions. See here for more info:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/appengine-ndb-discuss/browse_thread/thread/cd05c3c8ac7b27cf#
>
> On Dec 1, 2:36 pm, Crizegg wrote:
> > Setting the cache is where my pain point lies. I see zero log messages
> > indicating a memcache failed write on the python side. I can't think
> > of a case where you WOULDN'T want to know memcache failed to overwrite
> > stale data. Since the next update is going to read the stale data from
> > memcache and write it to the datastore!
> >
> > > In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService
> >
> > @Jeff, this is the exact type of solution I'm after for Python. I'm
> > thinking proxy hooks with backed off retries.
> >
> > Will post soon.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 10:43 am, "Brandon Wirtz" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Yes,
> >
> > > But that is "Drawer failed to open"
> >
> > > Memcache and the drawer should error when theyfailto be a place that
> may
> > > or may not contain data.
> >
> > > Drawer is too busy an can't be bothered right now to check if it has
> your
> > > socks, is different than there are no socks. Drawer is suffering from
> > > non-existence issues there is no drawer. Or if you are on MS. Drawer
> only
> > > allows you to read socks but you can't store new socks at this time so
> stop
> > > asking.
> >
> > > From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schnitzer
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:13 AM
> > > To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache
> tofail
> > >silently?
> >
> > > FWIW, there are good reasons to ask when memcache fails - I mean a real
> > > failure (say, timeout exception) rather than mere lack of data.
> >
> > > For example, if you are put()ing a new value in memcache and you want
> to
> > > make sure the old value is replaced, you really want to be able to
> retry if
> > > the put() fails.
> >
> > > In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService -
> the
> > > default is to log and ignore errors but you can set a strict error
> handler
> > > that propagates exceptions. Dunno what the equivalent for Python is.
> >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Brandon Wirtz
> wrote:
> >
> > > My socks are not in the drawer.
> >
> > > Return Error ("What has the Maid been doing all day?"
> >
> > > Just because the socks aren't in the drawer doesn't mean the drawer is
> in
> > > error.
> >
> > > From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
> > > To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache tofail
> > >silently?
> >
> > > Hi
> >
> > > Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the
> cache, (it
> > > is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.)
> >
> > > Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate.
> >
> > > Rgds
> >
> > > Tim
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visithttps://
> groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/A3p__F-3o1kJ.
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> .
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> .
> > > To unsubscribe from this gro
[google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
Looking into this solution, I've jumped farther down the rabbit hole
than anticipated. First off, memcache write failures are not very
common and neglecting to use compare and set was probably the main
source of my issues.
However memcache writes can still fail and regardless of whether they
throw errors, can cause stale data in race conditions. Also, since gae
transactions live solely within the datastore, you cannot solve this
problem elegantly with transactions. See here for more info:
http://groups.google.com/group/appengine-ndb-discuss/browse_thread/thread/cd05c3c8ac7b27cf#
On Dec 1, 2:36 pm, Crizegg wrote:
> Setting the cache is where my pain point lies. I see zero log messages
> indicating a memcache failed write on the python side. I can't think
> of a case where you WOULDN'T want to know memcache failed to overwrite
> stale data. Since the next update is going to read the stale data from
> memcache and write it to the datastore!
>
> > In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService
>
> @Jeff, this is the exact type of solution I'm after for Python. I'm
> thinking proxy hooks with backed off retries.
>
> Will post soon.
>
> On Nov 30, 10:43 am, "Brandon Wirtz" wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yes,
>
> > But that is "Drawer failed to open"
>
> > Memcache and the drawer should error when theyfailto be a place that may
> > or may not contain data.
>
> > Drawer is too busy an can't be bothered right now to check if it has your
> > socks, is different than there are no socks. Drawer is suffering from
> > non-existence issues there is no drawer. Or if you are on MS. Drawer only
> > allows you to read socks but you can't store new socks at this time so stop
> > asking.
>
> > From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schnitzer
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:13 AM
> > To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache tofail
> >silently?
>
> > FWIW, there are good reasons to ask when memcache fails - I mean a real
> > failure (say, timeout exception) rather than mere lack of data.
>
> > For example, if you are put()ing a new value in memcache and you want to
> > make sure the old value is replaced, you really want to be able to retry if
> > the put() fails.
>
> > In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService - the
> > default is to log and ignore errors but you can set a strict error handler
> > that propagates exceptions. Dunno what the equivalent for Python is.
>
> > Jeff
>
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>
> > My socks are not in the drawer.
>
> > Return Error ("What has the Maid been doing all day?"
>
> > Just because the socks aren't in the drawer doesn't mean the drawer is in
> > error.
>
> > From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
> > To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache tofail
> >silently?
>
> > Hi
>
> > Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the cache, (it
> > is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.)
>
> > Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate.
>
> > Rgds
>
> > Tim
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web
> > visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/A3p__F-3o1kJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > --
>
> > I am the 20%
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
Are you experiencing issues where Memcache holds data beyond expiration? Or
just fails to over-write when you update with new before the old expires?
-Original Message-
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Crizegg
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 1:37 PM
To: Google App Engine
Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
silently?
Setting the cache is where my pain point lies. I see zero log messages
indicating a memcache failed write on the python side. I can't think of a
case where you WOULDN'T want to know memcache failed to overwrite stale
data. Since the next update is going to read the stale data from memcache
and write it to the datastore!
> In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService
@Jeff, this is the exact type of solution I'm after for Python. I'm thinking
proxy hooks with backed off retries.
Will post soon.
On Nov 30, 10:43 am, "Brandon Wirtz" wrote:
> Yes,
>
> But that is "Drawer failed to open"
>
> Memcache and the drawer should error when they fail to be a place that
> may or may not contain data.
>
> Drawer is too busy an can't be bothered right now to check if it has
> your socks, is different than there are no socks. Drawer is suffering
> from non-existence issues there is no drawer. Or if you are on MS.
> Drawer only allows you to read socks but you can't store new socks at
> this time so stop asking.
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schnitzer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:13 AM
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to
> fail silently?
>
> FWIW, there are good reasons to ask when memcache fails - I mean a
> real failure (say, timeout exception) rather than mere lack of data.
>
> For example, if you are put()ing a new value in memcache and you want
> to make sure the old value is replaced, you really want to be able to
> retry if the put() fails.
>
> In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService -
> the default is to log and ignore errors but you can set a strict error
> handler that propagates exceptions. Dunno what the equivalent for Python
is.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Brandon Wirtz
wrote:
>
> My socks are not in the drawer.
>
> Return Error ("What has the Maid been doing all day?"
>
> Just because the socks aren't in the drawer doesn't mean the drawer is
> in error.
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
> silently?
>
> Hi
>
> Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the
> cache, (it is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.)
>
> Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate.
>
> Rgds
>
> Tim
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web
visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/A3p__F-3o1kJ.
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group
athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> .
> For more options, visit this group
athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> --
>
> I am the 20%
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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To unsubsc
[google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
Setting the cache is where my pain point lies. I see zero log messages
indicating a memcache failed write on the python side. I can't think
of a case where you WOULDN'T want to know memcache failed to overwrite
stale data. Since the next update is going to read the stale data from
memcache and write it to the datastore!
> In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService
@Jeff, this is the exact type of solution I'm after for Python. I'm
thinking proxy hooks with backed off retries.
Will post soon.
On Nov 30, 10:43 am, "Brandon Wirtz" wrote:
> Yes,
>
> But that is "Drawer failed to open"
>
> Memcache and the drawer should error when they fail to be a place that may
> or may not contain data.
>
> Drawer is too busy an can't be bothered right now to check if it has your
> socks, is different than there are no socks. Drawer is suffering from
> non-existence issues there is no drawer. Or if you are on MS. Drawer only
> allows you to read socks but you can't store new socks at this time so stop
> asking.
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schnitzer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:13 AM
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
> silently?
>
> FWIW, there are good reasons to ask when memcache fails - I mean a real
> failure (say, timeout exception) rather than mere lack of data.
>
> For example, if you are put()ing a new value in memcache and you want to
> make sure the old value is replaced, you really want to be able to retry if
> the put() fails.
>
> In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService - the
> default is to log and ignore errors but you can set a strict error handler
> that propagates exceptions. Dunno what the equivalent for Python is.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>
> My socks are not in the drawer.
>
> Return Error ("What has the Maid been doing all day?"
>
> Just because the socks aren't in the drawer doesn't mean the drawer is in
> error.
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
> silently?
>
> Hi
>
> Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the cache, (it
> is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.)
>
> Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate.
>
> Rgds
>
> Tim
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web
> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/A3p__F-3o1kJ.
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> .
> For more options, visit this group
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> --
>
> I am the 20%
>
> --
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
Yes,
But that is "Drawer failed to open"
Memcache and the drawer should error when they fail to be a place that may
or may not contain data.
Drawer is too busy an can't be bothered right now to check if it has your
socks, is different than there are no socks. Drawer is suffering from
non-existence issues there is no drawer. Or if you are on MS. Drawer only
allows you to read socks but you can't store new socks at this time so stop
asking.
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Schnitzer
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:13 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
silently?
FWIW, there are good reasons to ask when memcache fails - I mean a real
failure (say, timeout exception) rather than mere lack of data.
For example, if you are put()ing a new value in memcache and you want to
make sure the old value is replaced, you really want to be able to retry if
the put() fails.
In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService - the
default is to log and ignore errors but you can set a strict error handler
that propagates exceptions. Dunno what the equivalent for Python is.
Jeff
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
My socks are not in the drawer.
Return Error ("What has the Maid been doing all day?"
Just because the socks aren't in the drawer doesn't mean the drawer is in
error.
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
silently?
Hi
Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the cache, (it
is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.)
Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate.
Rgds
Tim
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
FWIW, there are good reasons to ask when memcache fails - I mean a real failure (say, timeout exception) rather than mere lack of data. For example, if you are put()ing a new value in memcache and you want to make sure the old value is replaced, you really want to be able to retry if the put() fails. In Javaland there is an error handler you can set on MemcacheService - the default is to log and ignore errors but you can set a strict error handler that propagates exceptions. Dunno what the equivalent for Python is. Jeff On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote: > My socks are not in the drawer. > > Return Error (“What has the Maid been doing all day?” > > ** ** > > Just because the socks aren’t in the drawer doesn’t mean the drawer is in > error. > > ** ** > > *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto: > google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim Hoffman > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM > *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail > silently? > > ** ** > > Hi > > ** ** > > Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the cache, > (it is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.) > > ** ** > > Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate. > > ** ** > > Rgds > > ** ** > > Tim > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/A3p__F-3o1kJ. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > -- I am the 20% -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
RE: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
My socks are not in the drawer.
Return Error ("What has the Maid been doing all day?"
Just because the socks aren't in the drawer doesn't mean the drawer is in
error.
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hoffman
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: [google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail
silently?
Hi
Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the cache, (it
is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.)
Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate.
Rgds
Tim
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[google-appengine] Re: What if I dpn't want memcache to fail silently?
Hi Its not generally considered an error if something is not in the cache, (it is after all a cache, not a guarunteed storage.) Use a decorator to raise KeyError or whatever you feel is appropriate. Rgds Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/A3p__F-3o1kJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
