[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Appengine has got two modes of operation. High traffic applications are served directly out of the cache within a second for example. For low traffic applications first the uploded code has to be prepared (unzipped for example) and put into the cache before it can be served. Thus low traffic applications necessarly need a longer request time - three seconds for example. To my experience low traffic is everything below about 500 requests per hour. New machine instantiations, which we all know happens quite frequently New pages usually haven't a lot of visitors yet and thus are low traffic apps. But a lot of longer existing pages have got low traffic too. Low traffic means additionally that each request consumes more resources. Usually that doesn't matter as for almost all low traffic pages these additional resources stay within the free quota. When comparing perfomance of different solutions it's important that the solutions themselves are comparable. If you don't need session management, user name, user account and administration you probably don't need Django and should use a simple and faster solution. What concerns the performance of a Django solution my tests with the aep-sample copied to my own appID three month ago varied for high traffic between 0.5 - 1.0 seconds request time for low traffic between 2.5 - 4.5 seconds request time I would be very interested to hear of current test results. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Hi Andy, On Aug 14, 7:05 pm, Andy a...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: I've not compared appengine-patch and google-app-engine-django for performance but when using google-app-engine-django r86 (which used django 1.0 via zipimport) I was getting a high-cpu warning for every second or third page load and for each of these pages the logs showed that zipimport wa re-loading django. When I moved across to google-app- engine-django r90, which uses the built in django 1.0 libraries this issue went away and my cpu usage and page load times dropped significantly. How did you check this? Did you go to the logs and then select Minimum severity: Requests only? The zipimporter always adds INFO logging messages, so you'll notice Django loads. Without zipimport you have to go to the request level to see Django loads. I'm pretty sure you'll find some requests with unusually high CPU and long response times. I'm really interested in some real-world data on whether there is a difference between integrated and external libraries - this is not an aep vs helper battle. Bye, Waldemar Kornewald --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
I am very interested in this also. There are features of the Patch I'd really like to use, but I keep hearing that startup times (for new machine instantiations, which we all know happens quite frequently) are significantly higher than bundled Django, which in turn are significantly higher than using just web_app. Can anyone quantify this? On Aug 15, 1:53 am, Waldemar Kornewald wkornew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Andy, On Aug 14, 7:05 pm, Andy a...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: I've not compared appengine-patch and google-app-engine-django for performance but when using google-app-engine-django r86 (which used django 1.0 via zipimport) I was getting a high-cpu warning for every second or third page load and for each of these pages the logs showed that zipimport wa re-loading django. When I moved across to google-app- engine-django r90, which uses the built in django 1.0 libraries this issue went away and my cpu usage and page load times dropped significantly. How did you check this? Did you go to the logs and then select Minimum severity: Requests only? The zipimporter always adds INFO logging messages, so you'll notice Django loads. Without zipimport you have to go to the request level to see Django loads. I'm pretty sure you'll find some requests with unusually high CPU and long response times. I'm really interested in some real-world data on whether there is a difference between integrated and external libraries - this is not an aep vs helper battle. Bye, Waldemar Kornewald --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Holger The project I am working on was originally developed under appengine- patch. I ported it to google-app-engine-django when I came across an issue with appengine-patch which took quite some time to resolve. To be fair to the appengine-patch project issue has now been fixed but I would still rather not spend the time porting the application back to appengine-patch again if I can avoid it. Also, the project I am working on has a very low usage pattern. It is written for my friend's electrical contracting company and there's only 3 of them! This results in zipimport being used a lot and negatively affecting application response times. Since the application is built to be used on mobile browsers and over a mobile data network the response is already pretty slow and adding an extra 1-2 seconds to every second or third page hit really doesn't help! google-app-engine- django allows me to use the build in django 1.0 libraries which removes this workload. (To be fair, the 1.0.2.3 release may have removed the zipimport requirement for django 1.0. I didn't check) Andy On Aug 13, 7:03 pm, Holger w...@arcor.de wrote: Hi Andy, you are right, appenginepatch has got a lot of additional features. If you don't need them, simply switch them off, as explained in the manual: 'The Media Generator is pre-configured ... You can disable it by removing mediautils from your INSTALLED_APPS. 'http://code.google.com/p/app-engine-patch/wiki/MediaGenerator Holger --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Hi Andy, On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Andy a...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: Also, the project I am working on has a very low usage pattern. It is written for my friend's electrical contracting company and there's only 3 of them! This results in zipimport being used a lot and negatively affecting application response times. I tested zipimport performance and Django starts almost 2x faster with zipimport, so you're actually losing performance. I'd still be interested in startup performance of google-app-engine- django vs app-engine-patch. Did you actually measure the difference between sites that are configured exactly the same (i.e., disable app- engine-patch modules that are not needed, etc.)? Bye, Waldemar Kornewald --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Hi Waldemar I've not compared appengine-patch and google-app-engine-django for performance but when using google-app-engine-django r86 (which used django 1.0 via zipimport) I was getting a high-cpu warning for every second or third page load and for each of these pages the logs showed that zipimport wa re-loading django. When I moved across to google-app- engine-django r90, which uses the built in django 1.0 libraries this issue went away and my cpu usage and page load times dropped significantly. I think perhaps the important factor here is the very low concurrency for this specific application. As I said, it was written for a very small company which means that most of the time no-one at all using it and at most there are only ever one or two people. This leads to an extended time between hits on the application which causes the django zip to be re-imported at best every 2-3 page loads (my guess is that the entire app is being flushed from memory). If I hit pages on the application in quick succession this doesn't happen, which may explain the figures you obtained for zipimport performance. If the application was being more heavily used then I'm sure that the zipimport overhead would not be an issue at all. I'm a little worried that this has turned into an appengine-patch vs google-app-engine-django argument, which it really isn't meant to be at all. I think appengine-patch is a fantastic bit of software and I fully intend to use it in the future but this specific application is written using google-app-engine-django. Zipimport issues aside I'd rather not spend the time porting it back to appengine patch but I want to be able to continue supporting it moving forwards which is the sole reason I asked on this mailing list about the status of the google-app-engine-django project. Thanks Andy On Aug 14, 3:04 pm, Waldemar Kornewald wkornew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Andy, On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Andy a...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: Also, the project I am working on has a very low usage pattern. It is written for my friend's electrical contracting company and there's only 3 of them! This results in zipimport being used a lot and negatively affecting application response times. I tested zipimport performance and Django starts almost 2x faster with zipimport, so you're actually losing performance. I'd still be interested in startup performance of google-app-engine- django vs app-engine-patch. Did you actually measure the difference between sites that are configured exactly the same (i.e., disable app- engine-patch modules that are not needed, etc.)? Bye, Waldemar Kornewald --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Concern the project too 2009/8/12 Ian Lewis ianmle...@gmail.com Andy, I believe the project's goal was to support django 1.0 on appengine but since 1.0 is now available there isn't much point to continuing the project. I think that the appengine folks plan to have django available on appengine without using google-app-engine-django Ian On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Andya...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: Hello Does anyone know what the current status of the google-app-engine- django project at http://code.google.com/p/google-app-engine-django/ All the downloads have been deprecated for a few weeks now, though it is possible to get more recent releases from subversion. Thanks Andy -- === 株式会社ビープラウド イアン・ルイス 〒150-0012 東京都渋谷区広尾1-11-2アイオス広尾ビル604 email: ianmle...@beproud.jp TEL：03-5795-2707 FAX：03-5795-2708 http://www.beproud.jp/ === -- gae-django-cms (GD-cms) a multi-user CMS running on GAE sample http://www.19tm.cn/ or http://cmsdome.appspot.com/ projects http://code.google.com/p/gae-django-cms/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Hello Ian The google-app-engine-django project does rather more than simply making the django-1.0 libraries available under GAE, which is what the 1.2.3 update did, it also allows you to use many other features of django such as application structure, development utilities (manage.py), django's memcached based caching and a whole bunch of other good stuff. Andy On Aug 12, 12:29 pm, Ian Lewis ianmle...@gmail.com wrote: Andy, I believe the project's goal was to support django 1.0 on appengine but since 1.0 is now available there isn't much point to continuing the project. I think that the appengine folks plan to have django available on appengine without using google-app-engine-django Ian On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Andya...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: Hello Does anyone know what the current status of the google-app-engine- django project athttp://code.google.com/p/google-app-engine-django/ All the downloads have been deprecated for a few weeks now, though it is possible to get more recent releases from subversion. Thanks Andy -- === 株式会社ビープラウド イアン・ルイス 〒150-0012 東京都渋谷区広尾1-11-2アイオス広尾ビル604 email: ianmle...@beproud.jp TEL：03-5795-2707 FAX：03-5795-2708http://www.beproud.jp/ === --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
it also allows you to use many other features of django such as application structure, development utilities (manage.py), django's memcached based caching and a whole bunch of other good stuff. Such features are available live even for Django 1.1 http://aep-sample.appspot.com/ After coding this AppenginePatch project its author is involved in the development of a native Django port for cloud computing inclusive Appengine http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers/browse_thread/thread/410b69006addf41?pli=1 Developpers intersted in paticipating are welcome. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Hi Holger, I'm aware of the appengine patch project. It's a very impressive bit of work but it comes with a whole bunch of extra's included (such as the media generator). I like google-app-engine-django for it's simplicity, which is why I am asking about the status of the project. Andy On Aug 13, 2:34 pm, Holger w...@arcor.de wrote: it also allows you to use many other features of django such as application structure, development utilities (manage.py), django's memcached based caching and a whole bunch of other good stuff. Such features are available live even for Django 1.1http://aep-sample.appspot.com/ After coding this AppenginePatch project its author is involved in the development of a native Django port for cloud computing inclusive Appenginehttp://groups.google.com/group/django-developers/browse_thread/thread... Developpers intersted in paticipating are welcome. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Hi Andy, you are right, appenginepatch has got a lot of additional features. If you don't need them, simply switch them off, as explained in the manual: 'The Media Generator is pre-configured ... You can disable it by removing mediautils from your INSTALLED_APPS. ' http://code.google.com/p/app-engine-patch/wiki/MediaGenerator Holger --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: google-app-engine-django
Andy, I believe the project's goal was to support django 1.0 on appengine but since 1.0 is now available there isn't much point to continuing the project. I think that the appengine folks plan to have django available on appengine without using google-app-engine-django Ian On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Andya...@robotlovesyou.com wrote: Hello Does anyone know what the current status of the google-app-engine- django project at http://code.google.com/p/google-app-engine-django/ All the downloads have been deprecated for a few weeks now, though it is possible to get more recent releases from subversion. Thanks Andy -- === 株式会社ビープラウド イアン・ルイス 〒150-0012 東京都渋谷区広尾1-11-2アイオス広尾ビル604 email: ianmle...@beproud.jp TEL：03-5795-2707 FAX：03-5795-2708 http://www.beproud.jp/ === --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: Google app engine django helper, manage.py update, and (1,0,'final')
Hmmm, I'm at this again and unfortunately I can't get the helper form SVN to work at all. All I get is: Traceback (most recent call last): File manage.py, line 18, in module InstallAppengineHelperForDjango() File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/appengine_django/ __init__.py, line 451, in InstallAppengineHelperForDjango InstallAppengineDatabaseBackend() File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/appengine_django/ __init__.py, line 175, in InstallAppengineDatabaseBackend PatchTestDBCreationFunctions() File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/appengine_django/ __init__.py, line 188, in PatchTestDBCreationFunctions from django.test import utils File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/.google_appengine/lib/ django/django/test/__init__.py, line 6, in module from django.test.testcases import TestCase File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/.google_appengine/lib/ django/django/test/testcases.py, line 2, in module from django.db import transaction File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/.google_appengine/lib/ django/django/db/__init__.py, line 22, in module (settings.DATABASE_ENGINE, , .join(map(repr, available_backends))) django.core.exceptions.ImproperlyConfigured: 'appengine' isn't an available database backend. Available options are: 'ado_mssql', 'dummy', 'mysql', 'mysql_old', 'oracle', 'postgresql', 'postgresql_psycopg2', 'sqlite3' Many thanks, Josh On Sep 23, 2:01 pm, Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Matt. I'll try using the helper directly from svn. Cheers, Josh On Sep 22, 1:44 am, Matt Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aral Balkan wrote: Can someone respond as to the roadmap for Django 1.0 compatibility? The currently released version of the helper (r52) supports Django 0.96 and the early Django 1.0 alpha versions. Support for Django 1.0 final is present in the HEAD (r60) of the helper. I'd like to add support for loading Django 1.0 from a zipfile via the zipimport functionality in version 1.1.3 of the SDK before making a new release of the helper with Django 1.0 support. In the meantime you should be able to use the helper and Django 1.0 together by checking out the helper directly from svn. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: Google app engine django helper, manage.py update, and (1,0,'final')
Aral Balkan wrote: Can someone respond as to the roadmap for Django 1.0 compatibility? The currently released version of the helper (r52) supports Django 0.96 and the early Django 1.0 alpha versions. Support for Django 1.0 final is present in the HEAD (r60) of the helper. I'd like to add support for loading Django 1.0 from a zipfile via the zipimport functionality in version 1.1.3 of the SDK before making a new release of the helper with Django 1.0 support. In the meantime you should be able to use the helper and Django 1.0 together by checking out the helper directly from svn. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: Google app engine django helper, manage.py update, and (1,0,'final')
I believe I was able to solve this problem by syncing my django install to revision 8250'ish. Using that version these obvious errors go away... I just don't get to use the newest (best?) release of django. On Sep 20, 3:46 pm, Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, I've been following the instructions here:http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/appengine_helper_for_django... And everything's worked well, until I tried to use: python manage.py update I ran into the expected problem of: Error: Your action, 'update', was invalid. Because my django version that comes with app engine is 0.96 It seems the solution should be copying in my new, up-to-date django version, which is version (1,0,'final'). But now when I run python manage.py I always see: Traceback (most recent call last): File manage.py, line 20, in module InstallAppengineHelperForDjango() File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/appengine_django/ __init__.py, line 441, in InstallAppengineHelperForDjango InstallModelForm() File /home/jestelle/django/projects/mysite/appengine_django/ __init__.py, line 495, in InstallModelForm from django import newforms as forms ImportError: cannot import name newforms Does the app engine django helper not work with version 1.0? Thanks, Josh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[google-appengine] Re: Google app engine django helper, manage.py update, and (1,0,'final')
I was thinking of updating to the latest versions of Django and the helper but will be holding off based on these issues. Can someone respond as to the roadmap for Django 1.0 compatibility? Thanks, Aral On Sep 21, 9:46 pm, Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe I was able to solve this problem by syncing my django install to revision 8250'ish. Using that version these obvious errors go away... I just don't get to use the newest (best?) release of django. snip --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
