Re: [google-appengine] Frameworks on GAE
+1 to this reply. Frameworks are OK, sometimes. The real question that you have to ask yourself is, what are you using from the framework, and does it justify copying the entire framework library in. Sometimes you absolutely need the framework, but you only need a portion of it. Fine, tear out the parts you don't need, and leave the rest in. Other times, you're using the framework for services that App Engine already provides. A lot of people will point to authentication and security for reasons why they need a framework. While I understand that, it's also important to understand that using AppEngine's authentication capabilities are frequently faster and (depending on your application) simpler. App Engine can authenticate through Google Accounts (pretty much everybody has at least a Gmail account) or Federated authentication via OpenID. I have an apps that authenticate through one or the other service, and it only requires a few lines of code. On Sunday, July 22, 2012 4:43:25 AM UTC-5, Brandon Wirtz wrote: In an argument we often polarize beyond what is entirely true… Libraries… More than Frameworks are “OK” Some Frameworks are closer to libraries, and some Libraries are closer to frameworks. *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto: google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *glimmung *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2012 2:33 AM *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [google-appengine] Frameworks on GAE Hi All, I've been reading, initially with amusement but more recently with concern, the dialogue (for want of a better word) between Brandom Wirtz and Jeff Schnitzer re. startup time/optimisation. Brandom has now made the following very strong statement: NO FRAMEWORKS. NONE. Deal with it. This leads me to ask the Google team for their position on this: Is it your position that GAE is an unsuitable platform for framework-driven apps? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/VJ_eFuwZ_OUJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
RE: [google-appengine] Frameworks on GAE
In an argument we often polarize beyond what is entirely true. Libraries. More than Frameworks are OK Some Frameworks are closer to libraries, and some Libraries are closer to frameworks. You should always look at what your frame work gets you and what it costs you. Putting a timer before your load of the framework is a good way to make that judgment. Sometimes it means stripping out everything you aren't using from a frame work. Other times it means using the framework as a stop gap until you can replace it with your own code. And sometimes it means doing the optimizations yourself. I am working on a project that uses the Python Natural Language Tool Kit. That doesn't even Fit in an F4 instance. Just loading the NLTK times out and never does anything. So I stripped it down to just the parts I needed, and then optimized how it uses memory. That is a Sucky way to spend 2 weeks. BUT I didn't have to write my own Sentence and parts of speech parser which would have been a sucky way to spend 9 months. From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of glimmung Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 2:33 AM To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com Subject: [google-appengine] Frameworks on GAE Hi All, I've been reading, initially with amusement but more recently with concern, the dialogue (for want of a better word) between Brandom Wirtz and Jeff Schnitzer re. startup time/optimisation. Brandom has now made the following very strong statement: NO FRAMEWORKS. NONE. Deal with it. This leads me to ask the Google team for their position on this: Is it your position that GAE is an unsuitable platform for framework-driven apps? I'm using a framework, and trust the framework's authors to optimise their part of the piece as much as possible, but I'm paid to solve business problems, and am not about to dive into that timesink of esoterica. It's outside my skill-set, and properly so in my view. I've only really tinkered with GAE so far, and this is putting me off investing more time in what is starting to look like a risky platform for me. So Google peeps, if I want to write B2B apps using a framework, am I your market or not? Or is it your position that the low-level optimisation to balance start-up time and hosting cost will always be required? -- Cheers, PhilK -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/sRtfq4gGlwYJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google App Engine group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
