[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-14 Thread Anders
Here is the application I was talking about:

http://www.wavelot.com/

I just released a 'beta' version.

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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-11 Thread Anders
Ok, yeah only two participants that are needed for my application to
work. Maybe a few more in the future, but I will try to keep the
number of needed default robots at a minimum. Basically the idea is to
have the application be like a container for public waves sorted into
predefined topics, similar to a general Internet forum. And only have
restrictions when they are really needed. For example, in addition to
re-adding the two participants it will have a captcha for creating new
waves. Otherwise spammers etc could heavily abuse the automatic wave
creation functionality. Yikes!

On Jun 11, 5:18 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
wrote:
> That's what I'm saying - people should be allowed to remove themselves - but
> I didn't realise that your robot only kept two robots in the wave.
>
> On 11 June 2010 08:11, Anders  wrote:
>
> > But participants may want to be able to remove themselves. So my robot
> > only re-adds two robots at the moment (that are needed for my
> > application to function correctly).
>
> > On Jun 11, 8:41 am, Nathanael Abbotts 
> > wrote:
> > > One test you should include - check if the person removed themselves (for
> > i
> > > in event.participants_removed: if i != event.modified_by: add(i) )
>
> > > On 10 June 2010 22:42, Anders  wrote:
>
> > > > I have written a robot that re-adds participants. It works really
> > > > great! When one of the participants that gets re-added is removed by a
> > > > user the robot instantly adds it back again. Within a fraction of a
> > > > second. This hopefully solves the problem with keeping the waves
> > > > public. An improvement would be to be able to set a filter so that my
> > > > robot only gets called for those particular robots (only two at the
> > > > moment) that I want to re-add. Because as it is now my robot of course
> > > > gets called every time a participant is added or removed. That's a
> > > > minor problem and will only become a larger problem if lots of people
> > > > would use my application.
>
> > > > --
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> > 
>
> > > > .
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Re: [Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-11 Thread Nathanael Abbotts
That's what I'm saying - people should be allowed to remove themselves - but
I didn't realise that your robot only kept two robots in the wave.


On 11 June 2010 08:11, Anders  wrote:

> But participants may want to be able to remove themselves. So my robot
> only re-adds two robots at the moment (that are needed for my
> application to function correctly).
>
> On Jun 11, 8:41 am, Nathanael Abbotts 
> wrote:
> > One test you should include - check if the person removed themselves (for
> i
> > in event.participants_removed: if i != event.modified_by: add(i) )
> >
> > On 10 June 2010 22:42, Anders  wrote:
> >
> > > I have written a robot that re-adds participants. It works really
> > > great! When one of the participants that gets re-added is removed by a
> > > user the robot instantly adds it back again. Within a fraction of a
> > > second. This hopefully solves the problem with keeping the waves
> > > public. An improvement would be to be able to set a filter so that my
> > > robot only gets called for those particular robots (only two at the
> > > moment) that I want to re-add. Because as it is now my robot of course
> > > gets called every time a participant is added or removed. That's a
> > > minor problem and will only become a larger problem if lots of people
> > > would use my application.
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> 
> >
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-11 Thread Anders
But participants may want to be able to remove themselves. So my robot
only re-adds two robots at the moment (that are needed for my
application to function correctly).

On Jun 11, 8:41 am, Nathanael Abbotts 
wrote:
> One test you should include - check if the person removed themselves (for i
> in event.participants_removed: if i != event.modified_by: add(i) )
>
> On 10 June 2010 22:42, Anders  wrote:
>
> > I have written a robot that re-adds participants. It works really
> > great! When one of the participants that gets re-added is removed by a
> > user the robot instantly adds it back again. Within a fraction of a
> > second. This hopefully solves the problem with keeping the waves
> > public. An improvement would be to be able to set a filter so that my
> > robot only gets called for those particular robots (only two at the
> > moment) that I want to re-add. Because as it is now my robot of course
> > gets called every time a participant is added or removed. That's a
> > minor problem and will only become a larger problem if lots of people
> > would use my application.
>
> > --
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.

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Re: [Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-10 Thread Nathanael Abbotts
One test you should include - check if the person removed themselves (for i
in event.participants_removed: if i != event.modified_by: add(i) )

On 10 June 2010 22:42, Anders  wrote:

> I have written a robot that re-adds participants. It works really
> great! When one of the participants that gets re-added is removed by a
> user the robot instantly adds it back again. Within a fraction of a
> second. This hopefully solves the problem with keeping the waves
> public. An improvement would be to be able to set a filter so that my
> robot only gets called for those particular robots (only two at the
> moment) that I want to re-add. Because as it is now my robot of course
> gets called every time a participant is added or removed. That's a
> minor problem and will only become a larger problem if lots of people
> would use my application.
>
> --
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> "Google Wave API" group.
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> google-wave-api+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
>

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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-10 Thread Anders
I have written a robot that re-adds participants. It works really
great! When one of the participants that gets re-added is removed by a
user the robot instantly adds it back again. Within a fraction of a
second. This hopefully solves the problem with keeping the waves
public. An improvement would be to be able to set a filter so that my
robot only gets called for those particular robots (only two at the
moment) that I want to re-add. Because as it is now my robot of course
gets called every time a participant is added or removed. That's a
minor problem and will only become a larger problem if lots of people
would use my application.

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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-10 Thread Anders
As I have planned it at the moment there will be no need for the robot
to remove participants. All waves in my application will be public.
Including the possibility for public users to add all kinds of robots
and gadgets to the waves. That will be very powerful but I hope it
will not cause too much problems and mess.

On Jun 10, 8:19 am, RAVINDER MAAN  wrote:
> An other point which may relate to this is that at present robot can not
> remove participant.Any thought to deal with this issue?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Anders  wrote:
> > I was thinking of having one robot creating all the waves in my
> > application, and each time a wave is created the robot adds the public
> > participant to the wave plus one or a few robots to provide default
> > functionality (such as support for emoticons).
>
> > So when a user creates a wave in my application, it's the one robot
> > that always is the creator of the wave. And each time a participant
> > tries to remove the public participant or any of the default robots in
> > a wave, then the robot who created the wave gets informed about that
> > through WaveletParticipantsChanged() and immediately re-adds the robot
> > that was removed from the wave.
>
> > Anyone can remove all the other participants in any of the waves in my
> > application, but since the public participant is always re-added
> > immediately, nobody is blocked from any of the waves and I thought it
> > would be nice to allow anyone to add or remove their own robots to the
> > waves which would potentially provide for powerful capabilities in the
> > waves.
>
> > I haven't checked if all these things are possible in practice but
> > that's my plan at the moment. And I don't know all the details yet.
> > For example is it possible to catch an event and then consume it
> > before any action has taken place? Or when a robot receives an event,
> > then the action has already happened.
>
> > On Jun 9, 8:05 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
> > wrote:
> > > Yes - but the robot adding public would be able to be removed also,
> > unless
> > > it created the wave.
>
> > > On 8 June 2010 23:53, Anders  wrote:
>
> > > > Oh, now I discovered this:
>
> > > > class WaveletParticipantsChanged(Event):
> > > >  """Event triggered when the participants on a wave change.
>
> > > > I assume that it can be used for catching all cases when participants
> > > > are removed from waves. That would be good enough. At least until more
> > > > fine-grained control has been implemented which I saw is planned for
> > > > the wave roadmap.
>
> > > > On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > If it helps - I'm working on a robot that you can use to create waves
> > for
> > > > > you, and it will re-add anyone that was removed, unless they remove
> > > > > themselves. (This robot would have created the wave, so it cannot be
> > > > > removed).
>
> > > > > On 8 June 2010 21:00, Anders  wrote:
>
> > > > > > I have started developing a wave application with public waves. One
> > > > > > problem is that the Public participant pub...@a.gwave.com can be
> > > > > > removed by anyone, and then the wave is no longer public! Not good.
>
> > > > > > Another problem is that anyone can remove robots from a public
> > wave,
> > > > > > which also is a problem.
>
> > > > > > I would like to have the waves public when it comes to writing to
> > the
> > > > > > wave, but not public when it comes to removing participants, such
> > as
> > > > > > the Public participant and robots.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups
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> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > google-wave-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > > google-wave-api+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > 
>
> > > > 
> > 
>
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
> > > > --
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>
> > > > .
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>
> > --
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>
> --
> Regards,
> Ravinder Singh Maan

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Re: [Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-09 Thread RAVINDER MAAN
An other point which may relate to this is that at present robot can not
remove participant.Any thought to deal with this issue?

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Anders  wrote:

> I was thinking of having one robot creating all the waves in my
> application, and each time a wave is created the robot adds the public
> participant to the wave plus one or a few robots to provide default
> functionality (such as support for emoticons).
>
> So when a user creates a wave in my application, it's the one robot
> that always is the creator of the wave. And each time a participant
> tries to remove the public participant or any of the default robots in
> a wave, then the robot who created the wave gets informed about that
> through WaveletParticipantsChanged() and immediately re-adds the robot
> that was removed from the wave.
>
> Anyone can remove all the other participants in any of the waves in my
> application, but since the public participant is always re-added
> immediately, nobody is blocked from any of the waves and I thought it
> would be nice to allow anyone to add or remove their own robots to the
> waves which would potentially provide for powerful capabilities in the
> waves.
>
> I haven't checked if all these things are possible in practice but
> that's my plan at the moment. And I don't know all the details yet.
> For example is it possible to catch an event and then consume it
> before any action has taken place? Or when a robot receives an event,
> then the action has already happened.
>
> On Jun 9, 8:05 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
> wrote:
> > Yes - but the robot adding public would be able to be removed also,
> unless
> > it created the wave.
> >
> > On 8 June 2010 23:53, Anders  wrote:
> >
> > > Oh, now I discovered this:
> >
> > > class WaveletParticipantsChanged(Event):
> > >  """Event triggered when the participants on a wave change.
> >
> > > I assume that it can be used for catching all cases when participants
> > > are removed from waves. That would be good enough. At least until more
> > > fine-grained control has been implemented which I saw is planned for
> > > the wave roadmap.
> >
> > > On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
> > > wrote:
> > > > If it helps - I'm working on a robot that you can use to create waves
> for
> > > > you, and it will re-add anyone that was removed, unless they remove
> > > > themselves. (This robot would have created the wave, so it cannot be
> > > > removed).
> >
> > > > On 8 June 2010 21:00, Anders  wrote:
> >
> > > > > I have started developing a wave application with public waves. One
> > > > > problem is that the Public participant pub...@a.gwave.com can be
> > > > > removed by anyone, and then the wave is no longer public! Not good.
> >
> > > > > Another problem is that anyone can remove robots from a public
> wave,
> > > > > which also is a problem.
> >
> > > > > I would like to have the waves public when it comes to writing to
> the
> > > > > wave, but not public when it comes to removing participants, such
> as
> > > > > the Public participant and robots.
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Google Wave API" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> google-wave-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > google-wave-api+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> 
> >
> > > 
> 
> >
> >
> > > > > .
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
> >
> > > --
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> >
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>


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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-09 Thread Anders
I was thinking of having one robot creating all the waves in my
application, and each time a wave is created the robot adds the public
participant to the wave plus one or a few robots to provide default
functionality (such as support for emoticons).

So when a user creates a wave in my application, it's the one robot
that always is the creator of the wave. And each time a participant
tries to remove the public participant or any of the default robots in
a wave, then the robot who created the wave gets informed about that
through WaveletParticipantsChanged() and immediately re-adds the robot
that was removed from the wave.

Anyone can remove all the other participants in any of the waves in my
application, but since the public participant is always re-added
immediately, nobody is blocked from any of the waves and I thought it
would be nice to allow anyone to add or remove their own robots to the
waves which would potentially provide for powerful capabilities in the
waves.

I haven't checked if all these things are possible in practice but
that's my plan at the moment. And I don't know all the details yet.
For example is it possible to catch an event and then consume it
before any action has taken place? Or when a robot receives an event,
then the action has already happened.

On Jun 9, 8:05 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
wrote:
> Yes - but the robot adding public would be able to be removed also, unless
> it created the wave.
>
> On 8 June 2010 23:53, Anders  wrote:
>
> > Oh, now I discovered this:
>
> > class WaveletParticipantsChanged(Event):
> >  """Event triggered when the participants on a wave change.
>
> > I assume that it can be used for catching all cases when participants
> > are removed from waves. That would be good enough. At least until more
> > fine-grained control has been implemented which I saw is planned for
> > the wave roadmap.
>
> > On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
> > wrote:
> > > If it helps - I'm working on a robot that you can use to create waves for
> > > you, and it will re-add anyone that was removed, unless they remove
> > > themselves. (This robot would have created the wave, so it cannot be
> > > removed).
>
> > > On 8 June 2010 21:00, Anders  wrote:
>
> > > > I have started developing a wave application with public waves. One
> > > > problem is that the Public participant pub...@a.gwave.com can be
> > > > removed by anyone, and then the wave is no longer public! Not good.
>
> > > > Another problem is that anyone can remove robots from a public wave,
> > > > which also is a problem.
>
> > > > I would like to have the waves public when it comes to writing to the
> > > > wave, but not public when it comes to removing participants, such as
> > > > the Public participant and robots.
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Google Wave API" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to google-wave-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > google-wave-api+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > 
>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > .
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Re: [Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-09 Thread Nathanael Abbotts
Yes - but the robot adding public would be able to be removed also, unless
it created the wave.

On 8 June 2010 23:53, Anders  wrote:

> Oh, now I discovered this:
>
> class WaveletParticipantsChanged(Event):
>  """Event triggered when the participants on a wave change.
>
> I assume that it can be used for catching all cases when participants
> are removed from waves. That would be good enough. At least until more
> fine-grained control has been implemented which I saw is planned for
> the wave roadmap.
>
> On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
> wrote:
> > If it helps - I'm working on a robot that you can use to create waves for
> > you, and it will re-add anyone that was removed, unless they remove
> > themselves. (This robot would have created the wave, so it cannot be
> > removed).
> >
> > On 8 June 2010 21:00, Anders  wrote:
> >
> > > I have started developing a wave application with public waves. One
> > > problem is that the Public participant pub...@a.gwave.com can be
> > > removed by anyone, and then the wave is no longer public! Not good.
> >
> > > Another problem is that anyone can remove robots from a public wave,
> > > which also is a problem.
> >
> > > I would like to have the waves public when it comes to writing to the
> > > wave, but not public when it comes to removing participants, such as
> > > the Public participant and robots.
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-08 Thread Anders
Oh, now I discovered this:

class WaveletParticipantsChanged(Event):
  """Event triggered when the participants on a wave change.

I assume that it can be used for catching all cases when participants
are removed from waves. That would be good enough. At least until more
fine-grained control has been implemented which I saw is planned for
the wave roadmap.

On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
wrote:
> If it helps - I'm working on a robot that you can use to create waves for
> you, and it will re-add anyone that was removed, unless they remove
> themselves. (This robot would have created the wave, so it cannot be
> removed).
>
> On 8 June 2010 21:00, Anders  wrote:
>
> > I have started developing a wave application with public waves. One
> > problem is that the Public participant pub...@a.gwave.com can be
> > removed by anyone, and then the wave is no longer public! Not good.
>
> > Another problem is that anyone can remove robots from a public wave,
> > which also is a problem.
>
> > I would like to have the waves public when it comes to writing to the
> > wave, but not public when it comes to removing participants, such as
> > the Public participant and robots.
>
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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-08 Thread Anders
Another problem is that someone could use a kind of terminator robot
that automatically removes participants from my public waves. And then
there would be a kind of war between my robot re-adding participants
and some 'denial of service' robot frequently removing participants
(such as the Public participant and robots) from my waves.

So a re-adding solution would perhaps not be fully satisfying. And
there is also a potential timing problem, because even human
participants can remove the Public participant at any time from my
waves and my robot would not be able to fully protect against some
users suddenly not being able to use the waves because they no longer
are public.

I would like to have the option to mark some participants, such as the
Public participant and robots as being permanent to the waves, i.e.
they can not be removed by anyone else than the participant who
created the waves. It's a strange kind of logic to have a public wave
that anyone suddenly can make non-public.

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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-08 Thread Anders
I just posted a comment about that! The re-add solution might work. I
think I will implement the robot myself, but it would be good to see
some example code for how it can be done (I'm new to Google Wave).

On Jun 8, 10:44 pm, Nathanael Abbotts 
wrote:
> If it helps - I'm working on a robot that you can use to create waves for
> you, and it will re-add anyone that was removed, unless they remove
> themselves. (This robot would have created the wave, so it cannot be
> removed).
>
> On 8 June 2010 21:00, Anders  wrote:
>
> > I have started developing a wave application with public waves. One
> > problem is that the Public participant pub...@a.gwave.com can be
> > removed by anyone, and then the wave is no longer public! Not good.
>
> > Another problem is that anyone can remove robots from a public wave,
> > which also is a problem.
>
> > I would like to have the waves public when it comes to writing to the
> > wave, but not public when it comes to removing participants, such as
> > the Public participant and robots.
>
> > --
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> > "Google Wave API" group.
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[Google Wave APIs] Re: Public waves can be made non-public by anyone

2010-06-08 Thread Anders
One solution could perhaps be to have a robot adding the Public
participant and the needed robots each time a user opens a wave in my
application. I'm new to Google Wave but I read that robots can add
participants (and perhaps even check if a participant is added to a
wave or not). I don't know though if that extra check and adding of
participants when missing would create too much of an overhead.

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