Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[jonl]

https://sdbg.github.io

Allows you to debug javascript in Eclipse when running your application in 
Chrome.  Has its limitations and is a work in progress, but it works.

On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 1:49:47 AM UTC-7, Liam Stewart wrote:
>
> Debugging javascript is a king size pain in the arse if you live and 
> breath Java, super dev mode is still nowhere near good enough to *really* use 
> when you have a lot going on and you need to step through and evaluate line 
> by line the state of the application at runtime, this becomes particularly 
> important if you are delving deeply into hibernate and hazelcast 
> environment like we do.
>
> I was tasked with evaluating IntelliJ as a viable alternative after we 
> went to GWT.create this year, I used it for a morning and wasn't impressed 
> with what I saw... it is painfully obvious you are debugging javascript as 
> the values you want are hidden down inside elements and the debugger simply 
> won't play ball at times, having to put in a debugger API call if you 
> actually do really want it to stop is ridiculous...
>
> I've attached an image of how I feel google has responded to the issue of 
> dev mode - if they really cared about the developers they would have just 
> released a dev version of chrome or something for us, not dropped us in it 
> with a super dev mode that 'will definitely be good, honest, promise... at 
> some time in the infinite future'.
>
> Grumble.
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ümit Seren]

What does debugging hibernate/hazelcast have to do anything with debugging 
the frontend (GWT) part ? 

Yes, debugging in SDM has it's pain points but apart from Dart (which has 
its own Chrome version Dartium) every transpiled/compiled languages relies 
on source maps and the browser's DevTools, so you can be sure that this 
will become better and better. 
Apart from that Chrome Dev Tools provide many pretty cool features to debug 
client side apps ranging from detecting memory leaks to performance flame 
charts, etc. 
Also being able to directly manipulate the generated HTML in the dev tools 
is quite powerful.





On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 9:49:47 AM UTC+1, Liam Stewart wrote:
>
> Debugging javascript is a king size pain in the arse if you live and 
> breath Java, super dev mode is still nowhere near good enough to *really* use 
> when you have a lot going on and you need to step through and evaluate line 
> by line the state of the application at runtime, this becomes particularly 
> important if you are delving deeply into hibernate and hazelcast 
> environment like we do.
>
> I was tasked with evaluating IntelliJ as a viable alternative after we 
> went to GWT.create this year, I used it for a morning and wasn't impressed 
> with what I saw... it is painfully obvious you are debugging javascript as 
> the values you want are hidden down inside elements and the debugger simply 
> won't play ball at times, having to put in a debugger API call if you 
> actually do really want it to stop is ridiculous...
>
> I've attached an image of how I feel google has responded to the issue of 
> dev mode - if they really cared about the developers they would have just 
> released a dev version of chrome or something for us, not dropped us in it 
> with a super dev mode that 'will definitely be good, honest, promise... at 
> some time in the infinite future'.
>
> Grumble.
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Slava Pankov]

Just tiny update. Dev mode is still working just fine on Windows with 
Chromium 38.0.2125.0 (292384) from Dart 1.8.3 distribution.

On Monday, February 3, 2014 4:01:41 PM UTC-8, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
>
> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin 
> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in 
> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>
> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working 
> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR 
> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you 
> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see 
> the issue tracker [3]. 
>
> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox 
> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>
> - Brian
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
> [2] 
> http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[David Hoffer]

That is really good news.  I haven't tried this yet (need to upgrade IDEA
to 14) but it sounds like one gets most/all the benefits of DevMode
development/debugging yet it's really using SDM.  Very impressive.

-Dave

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Jens  wrote:

> I'm using IntelliJ...I'd like to hear if/how IntelliJ can do this too.
>>
>
> With the released IntelliJ 14 things are a bit easier.
>
> - Create a new GWT run configuration and select "User Super Dev Mode" and
> at the bottom "with JavaScript debugger".
> - IntelliJ will automatically generate a JavaScript debugger run
> configuration. Open that run configuration and you should see your GWT
> project directory tree. In that tree navigate to your source folder (src or
> src/main/java) and double click on the "Remote URL" column next to it. The
> remote URL is where IntelliJ will download source map files from so you
> should paste in something like http://127.0.0.1:9876/sourcemaps/
> .
>
> Now launch the GWT SDM run configuration which should also automatically
> launch the JavaScript Debug configuration. Chrome should now tell you that
> IntelliJ is debugging your site (you may need to install the LiveEdit
> Chrome extension) and you should be able to set break points in your Java
> code and step through the code from within IntelliJ.
>
> Sometimes when you hit a break point the source map file isn't ready yet
> in IntelliJ (seems like a timing problem) and you see the pure JavaScript.
> But once you do the first "step over" IntelliJ should switch to the Java
> source by using source map information. Overall it works pretty well.
>
> But keep in mind that fields and expressions in conditional break points
> are still all JavaScript. You are not debugging Java!
>
> -- J.
>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

>
> I'm using IntelliJ...I'd like to hear if/how IntelliJ can do this too.
>

With the released IntelliJ 14 things are a bit easier.

- Create a new GWT run configuration and select "User Super Dev Mode" and 
at the bottom "with JavaScript debugger". 
- IntelliJ will automatically generate a JavaScript debugger run 
configuration. Open that run configuration and you should see your GWT 
project directory tree. In that tree navigate to your source folder (src or 
src/main/java) and double click on the "Remote URL" column next to it. The 
remote URL is where IntelliJ will download source map files from so you 
should paste in something 
like http://127.0.0.1:9876/sourcemaps/.

Now launch the GWT SDM run configuration which should also automatically 
launch the JavaScript Debug configuration. Chrome should now tell you that 
IntelliJ is debugging your site (you may need to install the LiveEdit 
Chrome extension) and you should be able to set break points in your Java 
code and step through the code from within IntelliJ.

Sometimes when you hit a break point the source map file isn't ready yet in 
IntelliJ (seems like a timing problem) and you see the pure JavaScript. But 
once you do the first "step over" IntelliJ should switch to the Java source 
by using source map information. Overall it works pretty well.

But keep in mind that fields and expressions in conditional break points 
are still all JavaScript. You are not debugging Java!

-- J.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

>
> I'm using IntelliJ...I'd like to hear if/how IntelliJ can do this too.
>

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sf9lahq0jr0AsxR74ZE-Lntf0y5ZNk0104mhD8ozEuM/edit
 

Also see the linked issue in the doc.

-- J.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[David Hoffer]

I'm using IntelliJ...I'd like to hear if/how IntelliJ can do this too.

-Dave

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Paul Robinson  wrote:

> If you're using eclipse and chrome, then sdbg is good. It's not perfect,
> but it is *much* better than browsing Java source and setting break points
> in the browser.
>
> Paul
> On 3 Nov 2014 17:49, "David Hoffer"  wrote:
>
>> I like where you might be going with your last paragraph (the IntelliJ
>> part)..."Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named
>> SDBG so you can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging
>> JS!). IntelliJ can do the same out of the box."
>>
>> Are you saying that IntelliJ can somehow use SDM and still be debugging
>> in IntelliJ?  If so I'd like to know more about this.  I was thinking
>> that for SDM to be acceptable...somehow it has to get back to the IDE so I
>> can debug, navigate & edit in one tool.  If this is possible then SDM
>> starts to look better.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Jens  wrote:
>>
>>> I definitely use a MVP/C model but not Places.  I don't think I should
 be tided to one and only one MVP approach.

>>>
>>> Places are just for navigation. They have nothing to do with MVP. You
>>> can use them without GWTs Activity class.
>>>
>>>
>>>
   However even if I did it's not clear how that would help the fact
 that the browser has a 'copy' or 'image' of the real thing...at the end of
 the day I need my IDE to make changes.

>>>
>>> Yeah it is a bit counter intuitive if you see your Java code in the
>>> browser and want to debug it. The best thing you can do is to place
>>> breakpoints and then step through the code. Navigating the code with
>>> something like ctrl + click as in Java IDEs is not possible with source
>>> maps (although you can search, open file, goto line using shortcuts). Also
>>> conditional break points obviously need to use JavaScript expressions. At
>>> the end you are debugging JavaScript that only got visually transformed
>>> into your original Java code to please your eyes.
>>>
>>> As an alternative you could try the following in Chrome:
>>> - use the SDM parameter -XmethodNameDisplayMode with your desired setting
>>> - Disable source maps in Chrome Dev Tools.
>>>
>>> Now you are dealing with the raw JavaScript (which already looks pretty
>>> similar to your Java code) but when hitting a breakpoint Chrome will
>>> display your Java class/method name for each stack element. So you kind of
>>> see a Java stack trace in Chrome but when clicking on it you see the raw JS
>>> code. The added benefit of using raw JS is that while a break point is
>>> active you can now hover JS code and Chrome will give you additional
>>> information about the code as well as a link to jump to the definition. And
>>> with the Java like stack trace it is easier to spot the code path in your
>>> IDE. Might be an interesting compromise.
>>>
>>> Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named SDBG so
>>> you can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging JS!).
>>> IntelliJ can do the same out of the box.
>>>
>>> -- J.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/google-web-toolkit/QSEjbhhHB4g/unsubscribe
>>> .
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>>>
>>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Paul Robinson]

If you're using eclipse and chrome, then sdbg is good. It's not perfect,
but it is *much* better than browsing Java source and setting break points
in the browser.

Paul
On 3 Nov 2014 17:49, "David Hoffer"  wrote:

> I like where you might be going with your last paragraph (the IntelliJ
> part)..."Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named
> SDBG so you can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging
> JS!). IntelliJ can do the same out of the box."
>
> Are you saying that IntelliJ can somehow use SDM and still be debugging in
> IntelliJ?  If so I'd like to know more about this.  I was thinking that
> for SDM to be acceptable...somehow it has to get back to the IDE so I can
> debug, navigate & edit in one tool.  If this is possible then SDM starts to
> look better.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Jens  wrote:
>
>> I definitely use a MVP/C model but not Places.  I don't think I should be
>>> tided to one and only one MVP approach.
>>>
>>
>> Places are just for navigation. They have nothing to do with MVP. You can
>> use them without GWTs Activity class.
>>
>>
>>
>>>   However even if I did it's not clear how that would help the fact that
>>> the browser has a 'copy' or 'image' of the real thing...at the end of the
>>> day I need my IDE to make changes.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah it is a bit counter intuitive if you see your Java code in the
>> browser and want to debug it. The best thing you can do is to place
>> breakpoints and then step through the code. Navigating the code with
>> something like ctrl + click as in Java IDEs is not possible with source
>> maps (although you can search, open file, goto line using shortcuts). Also
>> conditional break points obviously need to use JavaScript expressions. At
>> the end you are debugging JavaScript that only got visually transformed
>> into your original Java code to please your eyes.
>>
>> As an alternative you could try the following in Chrome:
>> - use the SDM parameter -XmethodNameDisplayMode with your desired setting
>> - Disable source maps in Chrome Dev Tools.
>>
>> Now you are dealing with the raw JavaScript (which already looks pretty
>> similar to your Java code) but when hitting a breakpoint Chrome will
>> display your Java class/method name for each stack element. So you kind of
>> see a Java stack trace in Chrome but when clicking on it you see the raw JS
>> code. The added benefit of using raw JS is that while a break point is
>> active you can now hover JS code and Chrome will give you additional
>> information about the code as well as a link to jump to the definition. And
>> with the Java like stack trace it is easier to spot the code path in your
>> IDE. Might be an interesting compromise.
>>
>> Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named SDBG so
>> you can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging JS!).
>> IntelliJ can do the same out of the box.
>>
>> -- J.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/google-web-toolkit/QSEjbhhHB4g/unsubscribe
>> .
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>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[David Hoffer]

I like where you might be going with your last paragraph (the IntelliJ part
)..."Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named SDBG so
you can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging JS!).
IntelliJ can do the same out of the box."

Are you saying that IntelliJ can somehow use SDM and still be debugging in
IntelliJ?  If so I'd like to know more about this.  I was thinking that for
SDM to be acceptable...somehow it has to get back to the IDE so I can
debug, navigate & edit in one tool.  If this is possible then SDM starts to
look better.


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Jens  wrote:

> I definitely use a MVP/C model but not Places.  I don't think I should be
>> tided to one and only one MVP approach.
>>
>
> Places are just for navigation. They have nothing to do with MVP. You can
> use them without GWTs Activity class.
>
>
>
>>   However even if I did it's not clear how that would help the fact that
>> the browser has a 'copy' or 'image' of the real thing...at the end of the
>> day I need my IDE to make changes.
>>
>
> Yeah it is a bit counter intuitive if you see your Java code in the
> browser and want to debug it. The best thing you can do is to place
> breakpoints and then step through the code. Navigating the code with
> something like ctrl + click as in Java IDEs is not possible with source
> maps (although you can search, open file, goto line using shortcuts). Also
> conditional break points obviously need to use JavaScript expressions. At
> the end you are debugging JavaScript that only got visually transformed
> into your original Java code to please your eyes.
>
> As an alternative you could try the following in Chrome:
> - use the SDM parameter -XmethodNameDisplayMode with your desired setting
> - Disable source maps in Chrome Dev Tools.
>
> Now you are dealing with the raw JavaScript (which already looks pretty
> similar to your Java code) but when hitting a breakpoint Chrome will
> display your Java class/method name for each stack element. So you kind of
> see a Java stack trace in Chrome but when clicking on it you see the raw JS
> code. The added benefit of using raw JS is that while a break point is
> active you can now hover JS code and Chrome will give you additional
> information about the code as well as a link to jump to the definition. And
> with the Java like stack trace it is easier to spot the code path in your
> IDE. Might be an interesting compromise.
>
> Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named SDBG so you
> can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging JS!). IntelliJ
> can do the same out of the box.
>
> -- J.
>
> --
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> Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

>
> I definitely use a MVP/C model but not Places.  I don't think I should be 
> tided to one and only one MVP approach.
>

Places are just for navigation. They have nothing to do with MVP. You can 
use them without GWTs Activity class.

 

>   However even if I did it's not clear how that would help the fact that 
> the browser has a 'copy' or 'image' of the real thing...at the end of the 
> day I need my IDE to make changes.
>

Yeah it is a bit counter intuitive if you see your Java code in the browser 
and want to debug it. The best thing you can do is to place breakpoints and 
then step through the code. Navigating the code with something like ctrl + 
click as in Java IDEs is not possible with source maps (although you can 
search, open file, goto line using shortcuts). Also conditional break 
points obviously need to use JavaScript expressions. At the end you are 
debugging JavaScript that only got visually transformed into your original 
Java code to please your eyes.

As an alternative you could try the following in Chrome:
- use the SDM parameter -XmethodNameDisplayMode with your desired setting
- Disable source maps in Chrome Dev Tools.

Now you are dealing with the raw JavaScript (which already looks pretty 
similar to your Java code) but when hitting a breakpoint Chrome will 
display your Java class/method name for each stack element. So you kind of 
see a Java stack trace in Chrome but when clicking on it you see the raw JS 
code. The added benefit of using raw JS is that while a break point is 
active you can now hover JS code and Chrome will give you additional 
information about the code as well as a link to jump to the definition. And 
with the Java like stack trace it is easier to spot the code path in your 
IDE. Might be an interesting compromise.

Other than that there is the experimental Eclipse plugin named SDBG so you 
can use your IDE for debugging (but you are still debugging JS!). IntelliJ 
can do the same out of the box.

-- J.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[David Hoffer]

I definitely use a MVP/C model but not Places.  I don't think I should be
tided to one and only one MVP approach.  However even if I did it's not
clear how that would help the fact that the browser has a 'copy' or 'image'
of the real thing...at the end of the day I need my IDE to make changes.

-Dave

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Timothy Michael Spear 
wrote:

> David,
>
> The problem is a fundamental disconnect in approach. In using Places, and
> the MVP model, your application is supposed to be a series of much smaller
> applications with minimal navigation required to re-enter a specific point.
> I have very mixed perceptions on this multi-entry point development.
>
> Tim
>
>
> From: David Hoffer 
> Reply-To: 
> Date: Monday, November 3, 2014 at 9:45 AM
> To: Google Web Toolkit 
> Subject: Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+
>
> IMO, the loss of DevMode is a huge problem for GWT, I understand
> SuperDevMode is its replacement but unfortunately that is no where near a
> true replacement at least not yet.
>
> It's a bit hard to explain unless you have used both approaches on a large
> project but the best way I can think of to explain it is that in
> SuperDevMode you see an 'opaque' version of your source in the browser.  So
> yes you can 'see' your Java source in the browser and you can debug
> it...but that's about it.  E.g. you get to have an image or a copy of your
> source in the browser.  However that's all you get in SuperDevMode what you
> don't get is the ability to find and edit your source code.  I have an app
> with hundreds of classes in the client side, there are no tools like my IDE
> has for finding the code i want to jump to so I can inspect, set break
> points, edit code, etc.
>
> So with SuperDevMode everything has to be done twice, you can debug in the
> browser (but navigating the code is very painful) but then when you need to
> make changes you need to re-navigate the code over in the IDE, edit the
> code, and re-deploy.  So in effect the code in the browser is an image of
> the real code...you can't do anything with it really.
>
> I find SuperDevMode to be incredibly inefficient in developing GWT
> applications, especially large ones where the strength of GWT is evident.
> SuperDevMode might be fine for later stages of development, e.g. testing
> stages where you don't need to make large code changes but rather just need
> to fine tune what GWT generated but it's inadequate for development stages.
> Personally I'm keeping an an old version of Firefox so that I can continue
> to use DevMode.
>
> Please let me know if I'm missing something here or are other approaches.
>
> -Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Leejjon  wrote:
>
>> There's a developer version of Firefox coming out:
>>
>> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/03/the-first-browser-dedicated-to-developers-is-coming/
>>
>> Maybe we can ask Mozilla to export the C++ symbols in this developer
>> version, so the GWT dev plugin can work on this developer version of
>> Firefox.
>>
>> Op dinsdag 4 februari 2014 01:01:41 UTC+1 schreef Brian Slesinsky:
>>>
>>> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin
>>> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in
>>> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>>>
>>> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working
>>> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR
>>> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you
>>> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see
>>> the issue tracker [3].
>>>
>>> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>>>
>>> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox
>>> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>>>
>>> - Brian
>>>
>>> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
>>> [2] http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/
>>> releases/24.2.0esr/
>>> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>>>
>>> --
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>> Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/google-web-toolkit/QSEjbhhHB4g/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group an

Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Timothy Michael Spear]

David,

The problem is a fundamental disconnect in approach. In using Places, and
the MVP model, your application is supposed to be a series of much smaller
applications with minimal navigation required to re-enter a specific point.
I have very mixed perceptions on this multi-entry point development.

Tim


From:  David Hoffer 
Reply-To:  
Date:  Monday, November 3, 2014 at 9:45 AM
To:  Google Web Toolkit 
Subject:  Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

IMO, the loss of DevMode is a huge problem for GWT, I understand
SuperDevMode is its replacement but unfortunately that is no where near a
true replacement at least not yet.

It's a bit hard to explain unless you have used both approaches on a large
project but the best way I can think of to explain it is that in
SuperDevMode you see an 'opaque' version of your source in the browser.  So
yes you can 'see' your Java source in the browser and you can debug it...but
that's about it.  E.g. you get to have an image or a copy of your source in
the browser.  However that's all you get in SuperDevMode what you don't get
is the ability to find and edit your source code.  I have an app with
hundreds of classes in the client side, there are no tools like my IDE has
for finding the code i want to jump to so I can inspect, set break points,
edit code, etc. 

So with SuperDevMode everything has to be done twice, you can debug in the
browser (but navigating the code is very painful) but then when you need to
make changes you need to re-navigate the code over in the IDE, edit the
code, and re-deploy.  So in effect the code in the browser is an image of
the real code...you can't do anything with it really.

I find SuperDevMode to be incredibly inefficient in developing GWT
applications, especially large ones where the strength of GWT is evident.
SuperDevMode might be fine for later stages of development, e.g. testing
stages where you don't need to make large code changes but rather just need
to fine tune what GWT generated but it's inadequate for development stages.
Personally I'm keeping an an old version of Firefox so that I can continue
to use DevMode.

Please let me know if I'm missing something here or are other approaches.

-Dave 


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Leejjon  wrote:
> There's a developer version of Firefox coming out:
> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/03/the-first-browser-dedicated-to-develo
> pers-is-coming/
> 
> Maybe we can ask Mozilla to export the C++ symbols in this developer version,
> so the GWT dev plugin can work on this developer version of Firefox.
> 
> Op dinsdag 4 februari 2014 01:01:41 UTC+1 schreef Brian Slesinsky:
>> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin relies
>> on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in any new
>> versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>> 
>> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working again
>> with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR track). If
>> you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you will need to
>> download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see the issue
>> tracker [3]. 
>> 
>> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>> 
>> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox could
>> stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>> 
>> - Brian
>> 
>> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
>> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731>
>> [2] 
>> http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
>> <http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/>
>> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>> <https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553>
>> 
> -- 
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[David Hoffer]

IMO, the loss of DevMode is a huge problem for GWT, I understand
SuperDevMode is its replacement but unfortunately that is no where near a
true replacement at least not yet.

It's a bit hard to explain unless you have used both approaches on a large
project but the best way I can think of to explain it is that in
SuperDevMode you see an 'opaque' version of your source in the browser.  So
yes you can 'see' your Java source in the browser and you can debug
it...but that's about it.  E.g. you get to have an image or a copy of your
source in the browser.  However that's all you get in SuperDevMode what you
don't get is the ability to find and edit your source code.  I have an app
with hundreds of classes in the client side, there are no tools like my IDE
has for finding the code i want to jump to so I can inspect, set break
points, edit code, etc.

So with SuperDevMode everything has to be done twice, you can debug in the
browser (but navigating the code is very painful) but then when you need to
make changes you need to re-navigate the code over in the IDE, edit the
code, and re-deploy.  So in effect the code in the browser is an image of
the real code...you can't do anything with it really.

I find SuperDevMode to be incredibly inefficient in developing GWT
applications, especially large ones where the strength of GWT is evident.
SuperDevMode might be fine for later stages of development, e.g. testing
stages where you don't need to make large code changes but rather just need
to fine tune what GWT generated but it's inadequate for development stages.
Personally I'm keeping an an old version of Firefox so that I can continue
to use DevMode.

Please let me know if I'm missing something here or are other approaches.

-Dave


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Leejjon  wrote:

> There's a developer version of Firefox coming out:
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/03/the-first-browser-dedicated-to-developers-is-coming/
>
> Maybe we can ask Mozilla to export the C++ symbols in this developer
> version, so the GWT dev plugin can work on this developer version of
> Firefox.
>
> Op dinsdag 4 februari 2014 01:01:41 UTC+1 schreef Brian Slesinsky:
>>
>> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin
>> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in
>> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>>
>> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working
>> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR
>> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you
>> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see
>> the issue tracker [3].
>>
>> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>>
>> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox
>> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>>
>> - Brian
>>
>> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
>> [2] http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/
>> releases/24.2.0esr/
>> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>>
>>  --
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[mtr]

Certainly worth to try.

On Monday, November 3, 2014 2:21:27 PM UTC+1, Leejjon wrote:
>
> There's a developer version of Firefox coming out:
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/03/the-first-browser-dedicated-to-developers-is-coming/
>
> Maybe we can ask Mozilla to export the C++ symbols in this developer 
> version, so the GWT dev plugin can work on this developer version of 
> Firefox.
>
>
>  

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Leejjon]

There's a developer version of Firefox coming out:
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/11/03/the-first-browser-dedicated-to-developers-is-coming/

Maybe we can ask Mozilla to export the C++ symbols in this developer 
version, so the GWT dev plugin can work on this developer version of 
Firefox.

Op dinsdag 4 februari 2014 01:01:41 UTC+1 schreef Brian Slesinsky:
>
> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin 
> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in 
> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>
> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working 
> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR 
> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you 
> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see 
> the issue tracker [3]. 
>
> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox 
> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>
> - Brian
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
> [2] 
> http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

>
> With SDM I'm bind to Chrome at least if I want to use source maps ?
>

Firefox and IE 11 both support source maps as well. Opera should also 
support it as it is now based on Chrome. In case source maps is not 
supported you still see nearly unoptimized JavaScript that looks very 
similar to your Java code. If you are not totally blocking JavaScript in 
your mind then you should be able to debug the JavaScript produced by SDM 
as well and transfer the result to your Java code ;-)

-- J.




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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[mtr]

Lost of Development Mode is kind of "tombstone" for GWT projects in my 
company :( Most of Java oriented developers switched to JS frameworks as 
they lost their "one common language environment" argument. JS oriented 
developers, well they were always in opposition to "slow and clumsy" java 
frameworks. I personally stick with GWT in my private projects (especially 
with Java 8 support on the horizon) but as advocate of Occam's razor 
principle I will stick to Development Mode as long as possible (still using 
FF 24 :) ). Writing, testing and debugging in one language (and IDE) was a 
reason I choose GWT long time ago. Luckily there are few other reasons to 
use GWT, and Super Dev mode should improve with time.

Still there is one question that do not let me sleep peacefully. With old 
good Dev Mode I could easily trak fragments of java code that didn't work 
properly on GIVEN browser (was it IE, Chrome or FF). With SDM I'm bind to 
Chrome at least if I want to use source maps ?

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Slava Pankov]

Also on Windows it's still possible to use Chrome 36 with devmode. Download 
Dart (I'm using 1.5.3 distribution), and use Chromium from there (it's 
portable, just copy it to any folder). Also you need 
GWT-Developer-Plugin_v1.0.11357.crx of course, see previous post.

On Friday, July 11, 2014 3:35:24 PM UTC-7, Alex Epshteyn wrote:
>
> As of now, quite sadly, the GWT plugin is no longer supported in the 
> latest of versions of Firefox nor Chrome (starting with 35). I've been 
> using GWT since 2006, and I think it's a sad state of affairs that after so 
> much work went into GWT's OOPHM (a.k.a "Development Mode"), we're back to 
> Internet Explorer being the only browser that can be used for GWT debugging 
> on Windows.  I think that SuperDevMode goes against the original "do 
> everything from your IDE" spirit of GWT, but I digress...
>
> The main reason I'm posting this is to describe my workaround to save some 
> time for anyone who still wants to use dev mode under Chrome and Firefox 
> (which I'm guessing is the majority of the people here):
>
> The hack I came up with (for Windows) was to install "portable" versions 
> of Chromium and Firefox.
>
> Portable Firefox 24: 
> http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr
> Portable Chromium 35: http://crportable.sourceforge.net/
>
> Then you need to manually install the GWT plugin into Chromium, since it's 
> now disabled on the Chrome Web Store:
> 1. download the file GWT-Developer-Plugin_v1.0.11357.crx from 
> http://chrome-extension-downloader.com/ (entering ID number 
> jpjpnpmbddbjkfaccnmhnkdgjideieim into the search field)
> 2. drag and drop the downloaded file into the chrome://extensions/ tab to 
> install the plugin
>
> The good thing about this Chromium build is that it seems to be immune 
> from Google's auto-updater, but for a limited time, you can also still get 
> Google Chrome 35 Portable at 
> http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/google_chrome_portable, and follow 
> the same procedure for manually installing the GWT plugin.
>
> I'm hoping that this hack will allow many of us to keep using the old dev 
> mode for a long time to come, and I'm also hoping that the GWT project 
> members will not abandon dev mode support.  
>
> Question for GWT project members: I understand that both FF and Chrome are 
> getting rid of the NSAPI, which enabled the GWT plugin.  Are there really 
> no other ways to keep supporting dev mode on the latest versions of those 
> browsers?  Has anyone looked into "Native Client" (
> https://developer.chrome.com/native-client)?
>
> Best,
> Alex
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Alex Epshteyn]

As of now, quite sadly, the GWT plugin is no longer supported in the latest 
of versions of Firefox nor Chrome (starting with 35). I've been using GWT 
since 2006, and I think it's a sad state of affairs that after so much work 
went into GWT's OOPHM (a.k.a "Development Mode"), we're back to Internet 
Explorer being the only browser that can be used for GWT debugging on 
Windows.  I think that SuperDevMode goes against the original "do 
everything from your IDE" spirit of GWT, but I digress...

The main reason I'm posting this is to describe my workaround to save some 
time for anyone who still wants to use dev mode under Chrome and Firefox 
(which I'm guessing is the majority of the people here):

The hack I came up with (for Windows) was to install "portable" versions of 
Chromium and Firefox.

Portable Firefox 24: 
http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr
Portable Chromium 35: http://crportable.sourceforge.net/

Then you need to manually install the GWT plugin into Chromium, since it's 
now disabled on the Chrome Web Store:
1. download the file GWT-Developer-Plugin_v1.0.11357.crx from 
http://chrome-extension-downloader.com/ (entering ID number 
jpjpnpmbddbjkfaccnmhnkdgjideieim into the search field)
2. drag and drop the downloaded file into the chrome://extensions/ tab to 
install the plugin

The good thing about this Chromium build is that it seems to be immune from 
Google's auto-updater, but for a limited time, you can also still get 
Google Chrome 35 Portable at 
http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/google_chrome_portable, and follow 
the same procedure for manually installing the GWT plugin.

I'm hoping that this hack will allow many of us to keep using the old dev 
mode for a long time to come, and I'm also hoping that the GWT project 
members will not abandon dev mode support.  

Question for GWT project members: I understand that both FF and Chrome are 
getting rid of the NSAPI, which enabled the GWT plugin.  Are there really 
no other ways to keep supporting dev mode on the latest versions of those 
browsers?  Has anyone looked into "Native Client" 
(https://developer.chrome.com/native-client)?

Best,
Alex

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Emiliano André]

Hello,
I created this guide (
http://openbpm.wordpress.com/2014/05/31/getting-gwt-plugin-to-work-on-firefox-on-ubuntu-14-04/)
 
to get multiple versions of firefox running locally in order to be able to 
have an older version with GWT working while still use the latest firefox 
version for everything else. And added the link to the bug hopefully it 
will help to get some traction in it.
Thanks!

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 1:58:30 PM UTC-3, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
>
> For the direction of an open source project, people who volunteer to do 
> actual coding are more important than marketing efforts by people who only 
> want to be users. The intersection of GWT developers and Firefox browser 
> developers seems to be the empty set, so we have very limited influence.
>
> This is a challenging time and migration can be painful, but this decision 
> fundamentally isn't up to us. We need to move forward. I think a more 
> promising direction for people who want to improve GWT on Firefox would be 
> to investigate problems with the Firefox debugger and contribute patches 
> that make it practical to use.
>
> - Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Mario Jauvin  > wrote:
>
>> People, this has been going on since beginning of February with no action 
>> on the part of Mozilla.  I have create a new mozilla bug 
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=996947 which is about the 
>> fact that GWT developper does not work in Firefox any longer.  I have 
>> proposed a workaround solution that I think is reasonable for Mozilla and 
>> the GWT developper community.  The only way we will get some traction on 
>> this is if every developper interested in having GWT developper working on 
>> Firefox (and I would think there are probably several hundreds if not 
>> thousands) should then create a bugzilla Mozilla account and vote on this 
>> bug (please remember to click change my vote to record your vote).  You can 
>> also add yourself on the CC list to get updated.  I am sure that if Mozilla 
>> gets a few hundred votes they will come up with something to get GWT 
>> developper plugin working again on Firefox.  Please forward this text to 
>> all the people who you think will be interested in voting.  Lets get the 
>> word out it can have a exponential effect.
>>
>> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=996947
>>
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>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

For the direction of an open source project, people who volunteer to do
actual coding are more important than marketing efforts by people who only
want to be users. The intersection of GWT developers and Firefox browser
developers seems to be the empty set, so we have very limited influence.

This is a challenging time and migration can be painful, but this decision
fundamentally isn't up to us. We need to move forward. I think a more
promising direction for people who want to improve GWT on Firefox would be
to investigate problems with the Firefox debugger and contribute patches
that make it practical to use.

- Brian

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Mario Jauvin  wrote:

> People, this has been going on since beginning of February with no action
> on the part of Mozilla.  I have create a new mozilla bug
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=996947 which is about the
> fact that GWT developper does not work in Firefox any longer.  I have
> proposed a workaround solution that I think is reasonable for Mozilla and
> the GWT developper community.  The only way we will get some traction on
> this is if every developper interested in having GWT developper working on
> Firefox (and I would think there are probably several hundreds if not
> thousands) should then create a bugzilla Mozilla account and vote on this
> bug (please remember to click change my vote to record your vote).  You can
> also add yourself on the CC list to get updated.  I am sure that if Mozilla
> gets a few hundred votes they will come up with something to get GWT
> developper plugin working again on Firefox.  Please forward this text to
> all the people who you think will be interested in voting.  Lets get the
> word out it can have a exponential effect.
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=996947
>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Mario Jauvin]

People, this has been going on since beginning of February with no action 
on the part of Mozilla.  I have create a new mozilla bug 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=996947 which is about the fact 
that GWT developper does not work in Firefox any longer.  I have proposed a 
workaround solution that I think is reasonable for Mozilla and the GWT 
developper community.  The only way we will get some traction on this is if 
every developper interested in having GWT developper working on Firefox 
(and I would think there are probably several hundreds if not thousands) 
should then create a bugzilla Mozilla account and vote on this bug (please 
remember to click change my vote to record your vote).  You can also add 
yourself on the CC list to get updated.  I am sure that if Mozilla gets a 
few hundred votes they will come up with something to get GWT developper 
plugin working again on Firefox.  Please forward this text to all the 
people who you think will be interested in voting.  Lets get the word out 
it can have a exponential effect.

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=996947

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

IIUC, Chrome will kill DevMode in 35 (current in beta, will reach the 
stable channel in 
May): 
http://blog.chromium.org/2014/04/chrome-35-beta-more-developer-control.html

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:01:41 AM UTC+1, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
>
> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin 
> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in 
> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>
> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working 
> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR 
> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you 
> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see 
> the issue tracker [3]. 
>
> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox 
> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>
> - Brian
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
> [2] 
> http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

Ivan, there is an existing bug that's related so I will reply there:

https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=7693


On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ivan Markov  wrote:

> The StackTraceDeobfuscator does not play very well with the Super Dev Mode
> code server though.
>
> Reason: StackTraceDeobfuscator needs to have access to the
> "AABBCD...HF.symbolMap" files generated during the last SDM compilation.
> However this directory is a moving target in the SDM code server because
> each compilation done by the SDM code server creates a *brand new*
> directory containing all the artefacts generated by this compilation (JS
> files, source maps, symbol maps). I.e.:
> - Initially, the symbol maps can be found here:
> //*compile1*
> /war/WEB-INF/deploy//SymbolMaps
> - After the second compilation, they are here:
> //*compile2*
> /war/WEB-INF/deploy//SymbolMaps
> - and so on
>
> For the JS files (and GWTRPC files) the above scheme is not a problem, as
> the code server's own HTTP service serves all artefacts generated by the
> latest compilation at this fixed URL: http://localhost
> :/
>
> ... except for the source map and the symbol map
>
> Now, the latest source map is also served by the code server, using
> another magic URL (which I don't recall at the moment).
> But no such luck for the symbol map...
>
> Brian: how hard would it be to alter the code server to serve the symbol
> map as well, at some special URL?
>
>
> 10 април 2014, четвъртък, 00:16:43 UTC+3, Brian Slesinsky написа:
>>
>> If you are debugging interactively, using "pause on uncaught exceptions"
>> can help. Then you can look at the stack frames in the debugger.
>>
>> Another workaround is to log stack traces to the server and use
>> StackTraceDeobfuscator. This will also help you in production:
>>
>> http://www.gwtproject.org/javadoc/latest/com/google/gwt/core/server/
>> StackTraceDeobfuscator.html
>>
>> I don't think we can easily deobfuscate stack traces in the GWT
>> application itself, because it requires the sourcemap which is normally
>> only loaded by the debugger. It would be possible with a round trip to the
>> Super Dev Mode code server, but this would be an asynchronous call so the
>> API would be awkward.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Chak Lai  wrote:
>>
>>>

>>>
>>>
>>> The stack-trace in Super Dev Mode is the only major issue that I have.
>>> It would be nice if the UncaughtException in SDM can tell me which line in
>>> java source is causing the problem, instead of giving me those JavaScript
>>> stack-trace messages...
>>>
>>> So far I like SDM. My current project is running a lot faster in SDM
>>> compare to Development Mode plugin.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ivan Markov]

The StackTraceDeobfuscator does not play very well with the Super Dev Mode 
code server though.

Reason: StackTraceDeobfuscator needs to have access to the 
"AABBCD...HF.symbolMap" files generated during the last SDM compilation. 
However this directory is a moving target in the SDM code server because 
each compilation done by the SDM code server creates a *brand new* 
directory containing all the artefacts generated by this compilation (JS 
files, source maps, symbol maps). I.e.:
- Initially, the symbol maps can be found here: 
//*compile1*
/war/WEB-INF/deploy//SymbolMaps
- After the second compilation, they are here: 
//*compile2*
/war/WEB-INF/deploy//SymbolMaps
- and so on

For the JS files (and GWTRPC files) the above scheme is not a problem, as 
the code server's own HTTP service serves all artefacts generated by the 
latest compilation at this fixed URL: 
http://localhost:/

... except for the source map and the symbol map

Now, the latest source map is also served by the code server, using another 
magic URL (which I don't recall at the moment).
But no such luck for the symbol map...

Brian: how hard would it be to alter the code server to serve the symbol 
map as well, at some special URL?


10 април 2014, четвъртък, 00:16:43 UTC+3, Brian Slesinsky написа:
>
> If you are debugging interactively, using "pause on uncaught exceptions" 
> can help. Then you can look at the stack frames in the debugger.
>
> Another workaround is to log stack traces to the server and use 
> StackTraceDeobfuscator. This will also help you in production:
>
>
> http://www.gwtproject.org/javadoc/latest/com/google/gwt/core/server/StackTraceDeobfuscator.html
>
> I don't think we can easily deobfuscate stack traces in the GWT 
> application itself, because it requires the sourcemap which is normally 
> only loaded by the debugger. It would be possible with a round trip to the 
> Super Dev Mode code server, but this would be an asynchronous call so the 
> API would be awkward.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Chak Lai 
> > wrote:
>
>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>> The stack-trace in Super Dev Mode is the only major issue that I have. It 
>> would be nice if the UncaughtException in SDM can tell me which line in 
>> java source is causing the problem, instead of giving me those JavaScript 
>> stack-trace messages... 
>>
>> So far I like SDM. My current project is running a lot faster in SDM 
>> compare to Development Mode plugin.
>>
>> -- 
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>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

If you are debugging interactively, using "pause on uncaught exceptions"
can help. Then you can look at the stack frames in the debugger.

Another workaround is to log stack traces to the server and use
StackTraceDeobfuscator. This will also help you in production:

http://www.gwtproject.org/javadoc/latest/com/google/gwt/core/server/StackTraceDeobfuscator.html

I don't think we can easily deobfuscate stack traces in the GWT application
itself, because it requires the sourcemap which is normally only loaded by
the debugger. It would be possible with a round trip to the Super Dev Mode
code server, but this would be an asynchronous call so the API would be
awkward.



On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Chak Lai  wrote:

>
>>
>
>
> The stack-trace in Super Dev Mode is the only major issue that I have. It
> would be nice if the UncaughtException in SDM can tell me which line in
> java source is causing the problem, instead of giving me those JavaScript
> stack-trace messages...
>
> So far I like SDM. My current project is running a lot faster in SDM
> compare to Development Mode plugin.
>
> --
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Chak Lai]

>
>  
>


The stack-trace in Super Dev Mode is the only major issue that I have. It 
would be nice if the UncaughtException in SDM can tell me which line in 
java source is causing the problem, instead of giving me those JavaScript 
stack-trace messages... 

So far I like SDM. My current project is running a lot faster in SDM 
compare to Development Mode plugin.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ivan Markov]

Regarding sourcemap support for fields/variable names deobfuscation:

1- I found some thoughts on "SourceMap.next" here: 
http://fitzgeraldnick.com/weblog/55/ . 
It goes as far as suggesting how conditional breakpoints and eval() 
expressed in the source language can work for sourcemap-based debuggers. 
(If I understand it correctly, it shifts the responsibility for 
implementing these to the transpiler. The debugger will "just" call a 
javascript function defined in the sourcemap).

2- Some thoughts how we may address the problem in SDBG (the sourcemap JS 
debugger for Eclipse): https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg/issues/6


02 април 2014, сряда, 20:04:33 UTC+3, Brian Slesinsky написа:
>
> It's true these are disadvantages.  There are some compensating advantages 
> that people are pointing out: the code executes faster, it works with 
> remote websites where latency is higher, it works with mobile phones, and 
> so on. But there's no question that losing DevMode (other than IE and 
> Firefox 24) is a loss.
>
> Our short-term plan is to speed up compiles and generate JavaScript that 
> looks more like Java for Super Dev Mode and draftCompile. But it it will 
> still be JavaScript, and we will have to adjust. Longer-term, it may be 
> possible to create a variable inspector that shows Java objects instead of 
> JavaScript objects, but that isn't even prototyped yet.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Jérôme Beau 
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Ümit,
>>
>> By "I cannot inspect Java values of Java variables" I mean that the 
>> source-mapping of the Chrome Dev Tools (which are good for JS) :
>>
>> - *shows me stuff I'm not interested into *(most of the time) : "this" 
>> is "Window[0]", DOM, JS or internal GWT-generated functions or properties 
>> appear, such as "$H", "___clazz$", "getClass$", "hasCode$", "toString" & 
>> "toString$", "attached", "eventsToSink", "proto", etc.
>> -* renames stuff I'm interested into* : "MyClass" becomes "MyClass 0" 
>> "1", etc. "this" becomes "this$static"
>> - *doesn't allow me to skip only in my code by defaut*, that 
>> is,  automatically skip "internal", gwt-generated code while stepping
>> - *doesn't allow me to use Java-expressions in breakpoints nor 
>> evaluations* : have to use JS string.length, not String.length() for 
>> instance, etc.
>>
>> You know, this just like when you debug plain Java code. Most of the 
>> time, you are not interested in debugging JDK sources. This may be 
>> interesting for understanding things and optimization (if you forget that's 
>> only draft JS code that will _not_ be the final code), but this is disabled 
>> by default. One might also consider than inspecting bytecode is good for 
>> understanding and optimization, but that's not reasonnable. 
>>
>> Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 16:26:50 UTC+2, Ümit Seren a écrit :
>>>
>>> What exactly do you mean with "I cannot inspect Java values of Java 
>>> variables" with SDM ? 
>>> Can you provide an example where you can't inspect a Java value with 
>>> Chrome Dev Tools ? 
>>>
>>> I think Dev Mode will never come back. SDM is here to stay and despite 
>>> there is a lot to be desired, with time development experience will be much 
>>> better than with normal Dev Mode. 
>>>
>>> The Chrome team is putting huge amounts of work into improving Chrome 
>>> Dev Tools. 
>>> The profiling features are crucial if you want to create performant web 
>>> apps and I prefer to do all task (profiling, fiddling with DOM/CSS and 
>>> debugging) right in the Chrome Dev Tools rather than switching between 
>>> Chrome Dev Tools and my IDE. 
>>>
>>> For those who really need the features of their IDE there are some 
>>> efforts to bring sourcemap debugging to eclipse (AFAIK IntelliJ has already 
>>> support for it built in)
>>>
>>> The biggest issue with SDM are currently compile times but that's going 
>>> to improve with the incremental compiler in GWT 2.7. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Jérôme Beau  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Jens,

 Just for the record : do you agree that using SDM you cannot inspect 
 Java values of Java variables in your browser? I agree about the mobile 
 dev, about knowing the underlying web platform, about everything but... 
 any 
 debugging session, Java or JS, have to be consistent : if I debug JS, I 
 expect to have JS inspections ; if I debug Java (even in the browser 
 through sourcemaps), I expect to see Java values and Java symbols, and I 
 expect that my conditional breakpoints occur on Java expressions, not JS 
 expressions. That's it. Otherwise I would have used a JS framework.

 Is there a tiny possibility that GWT can provide this in some future? 


 Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 12:47:45 UTC+2, Jens a écrit :

> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently 
>> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think 
>> this 
>> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if yo

Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 3:33:43 PM UTC+2, Thomas Broyer wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 3:05:22 PM UTC+2, stuckagain wrote:
>>
>> For me it will depend how well SDM works with IE because that is the main 
>> browser that I need to support. Not all GWT applications are put on the 
>> internet and in an enterprise environment (more specifically banking) IE is 
>> still king. It will already be a big battle to get them to move to IE9 or 
>> preferably IE10 or newer.
>>  
>> I could use FireFox/Chrome in dev (and I do actually) but I need to often 
>> debug in IE because of issues that only happen there and with SDM that can 
>> be painful.
>>
>
> AFAICT, for the time being, and for the coming year(s?), DevMode will 
> still be supported in IE. Specifically because IE Developer Tools aren't 
> really developers' friends and don't support Source Maps.
>

FYI, I've just been told that the new IE11 supports sourcemaps 
(http://blog.oio.de/2014/04/04/internet-explorer-11-source-map-based-debugging/)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jérôme Beau]

Thank you Brian. I can understand that, as well as I acknowledge the 
"compensating" benefits (which is not an appropriate term to me, as an 
extra arm doesn't really compensate loosing a leg). 
Hope for GWT that the long term will not be so long, before the the 
benefits of "I don't have to learn another language" disappear. 


Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 19:04:33 UTC+2, Brian Slesinsky a écrit :
>
> It's true these are disadvantages.  There are some compensating advantages 
> that people are pointing out: the code executes faster, it works with 
> remote websites where latency is higher, it works with mobile phones, and 
> so on. But there's no question that losing DevMode (other than IE and 
> Firefox 24) is a loss.
>
> Our short-term plan is to speed up compiles and generate JavaScript that 
> looks more like Java for Super Dev Mode and draftCompile. But it it will 
> still be JavaScript, and we will have to adjust. Longer-term, it may be 
> possible to create a variable inspector that shows Java objects instead of 
> JavaScript objects, but that isn't even prototyped yet.
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Slava Pankov]

DevMode is working just fine in Firefox 26 (not 24). And probably will work 
till Firefox ESR becomes 27 (it's only 24.4 now). So there is a time frame 
for normally working DevMode at least till the end of 2014. I hope SDM will 
be much better then. 
What I'm concerned about that GWT team don't broke DevMode in 2.7 and 3.0 
releases. Also it would be really nice to ask Mozilla team return back 
needed functionality for DevMode (but allow/enable it only if you run 
Firefox with specific command line parameters). I think it's completely 
possible to talk to them and explain the situation, nobody benefits from 
the situation, when GWT developers are refusing/disabling Firefox updates 
after 26 version.


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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

It's true these are disadvantages.  There are some compensating advantages
that people are pointing out: the code executes faster, it works with
remote websites where latency is higher, it works with mobile phones, and
so on. But there's no question that losing DevMode (other than IE and
Firefox 24) is a loss.

Our short-term plan is to speed up compiles and generate JavaScript that
looks more like Java for Super Dev Mode and draftCompile. But it it will
still be JavaScript, and we will have to adjust. Longer-term, it may be
possible to create a variable inspector that shows Java objects instead of
JavaScript objects, but that isn't even prototyped yet.



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Jérôme Beau  wrote:

> Hi Ümit,
>
> By "I cannot inspect Java values of Java variables" I mean that the
> source-mapping of the Chrome Dev Tools (which are good for JS) :
>
> - *shows me stuff I'm not interested into *(most of the time) : "this" is
> "Window[0]", DOM, JS or internal GWT-generated functions or properties
> appear, such as "$H", "___clazz$", "getClass$", "hasCode$", "toString" &
> "toString$", "attached", "eventsToSink", "proto", etc.
> -* renames stuff I'm interested into* : "MyClass" becomes "MyClass 0"
> "1", etc. "this" becomes "this$static"
> - *doesn't allow me to skip only in my code by defaut*, that
> is,  automatically skip "internal", gwt-generated code while stepping
> - *doesn't allow me to use Java-expressions in breakpoints nor
> evaluations* : have to use JS string.length, not String.length() for
> instance, etc.
>
> You know, this just like when you debug plain Java code. Most of the time,
> you are not interested in debugging JDK sources. This may be interesting
> for understanding things and optimization (if you forget that's only draft
> JS code that will _not_ be the final code), but this is disabled by
> default. One might also consider than inspecting bytecode is good for
> understanding and optimization, but that's not reasonnable.
>
> Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 16:26:50 UTC+2, Ümit Seren a écrit :
>>
>> What exactly do you mean with "I cannot inspect Java values of Java
>> variables" with SDM ?
>> Can you provide an example where you can't inspect a Java value with
>> Chrome Dev Tools ?
>>
>> I think Dev Mode will never come back. SDM is here to stay and despite
>> there is a lot to be desired, with time development experience will be much
>> better than with normal Dev Mode.
>>
>> The Chrome team is putting huge amounts of work into improving Chrome Dev
>> Tools.
>> The profiling features are crucial if you want to create performant web
>> apps and I prefer to do all task (profiling, fiddling with DOM/CSS and
>> debugging) right in the Chrome Dev Tools rather than switching between
>> Chrome Dev Tools and my IDE.
>>
>> For those who really need the features of their IDE there are some
>> efforts to bring sourcemap debugging to eclipse (AFAIK IntelliJ has already
>> support for it built in)
>>
>> The biggest issue with SDM are currently compile times but that's going
>> to improve with the incremental compiler in GWT 2.7.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Jérôme Beau  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jens,
>>>
>>> Just for the record : do you agree that using SDM you cannot inspect
>>> Java values of Java variables in your browser? I agree about the mobile
>>> dev, about knowing the underlying web platform, about everything but... any
>>> debugging session, Java or JS, have to be consistent : if I debug JS, I
>>> expect to have JS inspections ; if I debug Java (even in the browser
>>> through sourcemaps), I expect to see Java values and Java symbols, and I
>>> expect that my conditional breakpoints occur on Java expressions, not JS
>>> expressions. That's it. Otherwise I would have used a JS framework.
>>>
>>> Is there a tiny possibility that GWT can provide this in some future?
>>>
>>>
>>> Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 12:47:45 UTC+2, Jens a écrit :
>>>
 I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently
> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this
> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices
> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT 
> itself.
>

 But there is no other viable solution and the transition was actually
 planed more smoothly. I can understand that many people can not use SDM
 just because the SDM compilation is too slow for their project. But I don't
 understand people saying that debugging with SDM is a pain. Yeah for a Java
 developer it is strange to leave the IDE but honestly for every day
 debugging browsers provide everything you need. There may be some hiccups
 here and there but overall it is useable and it is not at all comparable to
 the situation around the time GWT was invented. Back in these days "use
 your Java debugging tools" was a very strong argument but today browsers
 have catch up and

Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jérôme Beau]

Hi Ümit,

By "I cannot inspect Java values of Java variables" I mean that the 
source-mapping of the Chrome Dev Tools (which are good for JS) :

- *shows me stuff I'm not interested into *(most of the time) : "this" is 
"Window[0]", DOM, JS or internal GWT-generated functions or properties 
appear, such as "$H", "___clazz$", "getClass$", "hasCode$", "toString" & 
"toString$", "attached", "eventsToSink", "proto", etc.
-* renames stuff I'm interested into* : "MyClass" becomes "MyClass 0" "1", 
etc. "this" becomes "this$static"
- *doesn't allow me to skip only in my code by defaut*, that 
is,  automatically skip "internal", gwt-generated code while stepping
- *doesn't allow me to use Java-expressions in breakpoints nor evaluations*: 
have to use JS string.length, not String.length() for instance, etc.

You know, this just like when you debug plain Java code. Most of the time, 
you are not interested in debugging JDK sources. This may be interesting 
for understanding things and optimization (if you forget that's only draft 
JS code that will _not_ be the final code), but this is disabled by 
default. One might also consider than inspecting bytecode is good for 
understanding and optimization, but that's not reasonnable. 

Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 16:26:50 UTC+2, Ümit Seren a écrit :
>
> What exactly do you mean with "I cannot inspect Java values of Java 
> variables" with SDM ? 
> Can you provide an example where you can't inspect a Java value with 
> Chrome Dev Tools ? 
>
> I think Dev Mode will never come back. SDM is here to stay and despite 
> there is a lot to be desired, with time development experience will be much 
> better than with normal Dev Mode. 
>
> The Chrome team is putting huge amounts of work into improving Chrome Dev 
> Tools. 
> The profiling features are crucial if you want to create performant web 
> apps and I prefer to do all task (profiling, fiddling with DOM/CSS and 
> debugging) right in the Chrome Dev Tools rather than switching between 
> Chrome Dev Tools and my IDE. 
>
> For those who really need the features of their IDE there are some efforts 
> to bring sourcemap debugging to eclipse (AFAIK IntelliJ has already support 
> for it built in)
>
> The biggest issue with SDM are currently compile times but that's going to 
> improve with the incremental compiler in GWT 2.7. 
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Jérôme Beau 
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Jens,
>>
>> Just for the record : do you agree that using SDM you cannot inspect Java 
>> values of Java variables in your browser? I agree about the mobile dev, 
>> about knowing the underlying web platform, about everything but... any 
>> debugging session, Java or JS, have to be consistent : if I debug JS, I 
>> expect to have JS inspections ; if I debug Java (even in the browser 
>> through sourcemaps), I expect to see Java values and Java symbols, and I 
>> expect that my conditional breakpoints occur on Java expressions, not JS 
>> expressions. That's it. Otherwise I would have used a JS framework.
>>
>> Is there a tiny possibility that GWT can provide this in some future? 
>>
>>
>> Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 12:47:45 UTC+2, Jens a écrit :
>>
>>> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently 
 (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this 
 is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices 
 of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT 
 itself.

>>>
>>> But there is no other viable solution and the transition was actually 
>>> planed more smoothly. I can understand that many people can not use SDM 
>>> just because the SDM compilation is too slow for their project. But I don't 
>>> understand people saying that debugging with SDM is a pain. Yeah for a Java 
>>> developer it is strange to leave the IDE but honestly for every day 
>>> debugging browsers provide everything you need. There may be some hiccups 
>>> here and there but overall it is useable and it is not at all comparable to 
>>> the situation around the time GWT was invented. Back in these days "use 
>>> your Java debugging tools" was a very strong argument but today browsers 
>>> have catch up and will continue to catch up. If GWT will provide debugging 
>>> in IDEs with SDM then it is only for convenience. 
>>>
>>> You must become a web developer even if choosing GWT and you should 
>>> understand the browser platform sooner or later just like you need to 
>>> understand Swing when doing Java Desktop apps.
>>>
>>> I think the most risky thing of GWT proper was to ignore mobile too long 
>>> and now it has to catch up quickly. With this in mind, SDM is actually a 
>>> huge plus for GWT because it enables you to build/debug mobile apps more 
>>> easily. With DevMode only, developing mobile apps is painful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

Am Mittwoch, 2. April 2014 15:57:55 UTC+2 schrieb Jérôme Beau:
>
> Hi Jens,
>
> Just for the record : do you agree that using SDM you cannot inspect Java 
> values of Java variables in your browser?
>

Yes thats true. The only Java code you see in the browser is the Java 
source file provided via source maps. Everything else is JS based because 
you are debugging JS and not Java.

 

> if I debug JS, I expect to have JS inspections ;
>

Thats what you do with SDM debugging. The only difference is that the 
browser helps you to figure out which line of code in your source language 
(in this case Java) maps to that specific piece of JS you are currently 
debugging. 
SourceMaps is not about making the browser understand Java code. You should 
not expect the browser to understand something like 
"e.getMessage().equals(MyErrorsEnum.CONSTANT)" in a conditional break 
point. The browser simply does not know how to execute that string.

 

> if I debug Java (even in the browser through sourcemaps), I expect to see 
> Java values and Java symbols, and I expect that my conditional breakpoints 
> occur on Java expressions, not JS expressions. 
>

Thats what you do with classic DevMode + browser plugin. In this situation 
you never really leave the JVM which could also mean that you never really 
spot an issue in your code because it might only occur in pure JS after the 
app is compiled. That already happened to me: Clients report errors but in 
DevMode you can not reproduce them just because you are using DevMode.


Is there a tiny possibility that GWT can provide this in some future? 
>

I think there is some work going on for IntelliJ and Eclipse to use the 
browser remote debug connection to get JS from the browser and then use 
source maps inside your IDE. And maybe, just because this now happens 
inside an IDE, that IDE is then able to do some more work to provide you a 
more Java'ish feeling while debugging.

For example take a look at: https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg as a proof of 
concept in Eclipse.

-- J.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Vassilis Virvilis]

A lot of negative feedback (maybe ) has been going for SDM. It seems a
little harsh to my eyes so here is my positive 2 cents.

We are using SDM for a new project which started from zero lines but grows
up pretty fast. We are importing older (even non GWT) modules and 3rd party
projects with a fast pace. So far we are at 15-20kloc (sloccount) and the
SDM compilation doesn't really slows us down. Of course we do tricks with
remote filesystems and ssh-tunels to run the compiler in faster machines
than our older developer machines. But the fact that we able to pull such
tricks is evident to me that the technology is sound and simple enough for
me to understand it. I have to admit that the DM with the plugin business I
never understand it enough so I could explain it to my co developers. The
SDM is pretty straight forward.

Of course I wouldn't say no to improvements in compile time (currently 8sec
for me - but may vary up to 30sec) in my i5 with 8G machine.

On another note I have to say that SDM triggered some old memories of mine.
The way the debug happens in the browser reminded me my first days in
computing with x86 debuggers where we were trying to match the compiler
output (assembly) to the higher level C input (yes I know - source maps). I
am not really using the debugger in my every day life to watch variable
values so this feature was not a big enough loss for (and can be emulated
by looking at the assembly ^H^H javascript variables).

However what I find indispensable is the browser's debug tools. Why css is
not applied? It is overrided? Who override it? Why width: 100% means 83px?
Where are my other 2 pixels? Where is the padding? What the padding is
doing here?

And of course flow related questions like: Exception? From where? From
here? I thought it was an event listener? Aah the mouse events are also
triggering the event listener. What do you know...

And for this the browser's debugging tools (chrome and (not or) firefox)
are good enough ^H^H best admittedly with some brain assisted mapping.

So far SDM represents a win for me

   Vassilis Virvilis



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Aleksander Gralak wrote:

> Do not agree. A lot of people complain about it.
>
>
> 2014-04-02 11:05 GMT+02:00 Jérôme Beau :
>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently
>> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this
>> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices
>> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.
>>
>> By non-mature, I mean a SDM that lacks features DM had, such as
>> Java-level inspection (inspecting Java values of Java variables). I am
>> amazed that nobody complains about this loss. Even if you achieve proper
>> support for debugging in SDM from the IDE, will it allow such Java-level
>> inspection ? I doubt it, you'll only allow JS-level inpections, while
>> allowing Java-level stepping, which does not fit the GWT promise of keeping
>> at the Java level. This is the reason why most of GWT developpers use it.
>>
>>
>> Le mercredi 5 mars 2014 10:15:55 UTC+1, Thomas Broyer a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:30:54 AM UTC+1, Ed wrote:

 > They have to change, they have to update their tools and move
 forward, or quit doing Web dev.
 Agree, that's why I spend a lot of grey hairs in using SDM, but it's
 simple not there yet saidly... Don't get me wrong, I wish it would as I
 certainly see the advantages.

>>>
>>> And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying SDM is either perfect nor 100%
>>> usable yet. I was just reacting to the fact people complain that DevMode
>>> won't be maintained anymore as they don't *want* to move to SDM (which is
>>> entirely different from your "I tried, it didn't work" situation).
>>> We're currently in a transition period where DevMode is already
>>> half-dead and SDM isn't 100% usable yet. Hopefully SDM should be much
>>> better by the next release, with incremental compilation (that'll have an
>>> impact on your code to really take advantage of it).
>>>
>>  --
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ümit Seren]

What exactly do you mean with "I cannot inspect Java values of Java
variables" with SDM ?
Can you provide an example where you can't inspect a Java value with Chrome
Dev Tools ?

I think Dev Mode will never come back. SDM is here to stay and despite
there is a lot to be desired, with time development experience will be much
better than with normal Dev Mode.

The Chrome team is putting huge amounts of work into improving Chrome Dev
Tools.
The profiling features are crucial if you want to create performant web
apps and I prefer to do all task (profiling, fiddling with DOM/CSS and
debugging) right in the Chrome Dev Tools rather than switching between
Chrome Dev Tools and my IDE.

For those who really need the features of their IDE there are some efforts
to bring sourcemap debugging to eclipse (AFAIK IntelliJ has already support
for it built in)

The biggest issue with SDM are currently compile times but that's going to
improve with the incremental compiler in GWT 2.7.



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Jérôme Beau  wrote:

> Hi Jens,
>
> Just for the record : do you agree that using SDM you cannot inspect Java
> values of Java variables in your browser? I agree about the mobile dev,
> about knowing the underlying web platform, about everything but... any
> debugging session, Java or JS, have to be consistent : if I debug JS, I
> expect to have JS inspections ; if I debug Java (even in the browser
> through sourcemaps), I expect to see Java values and Java symbols, and I
> expect that my conditional breakpoints occur on Java expressions, not JS
> expressions. That's it. Otherwise I would have used a JS framework.
>
> Is there a tiny possibility that GWT can provide this in some future?
>
>
> Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 12:47:45 UTC+2, Jens a écrit :
>
>> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently
>>> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this
>>> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices
>>> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.
>>>
>>
>> But there is no other viable solution and the transition was actually
>> planed more smoothly. I can understand that many people can not use SDM
>> just because the SDM compilation is too slow for their project. But I don't
>> understand people saying that debugging with SDM is a pain. Yeah for a Java
>> developer it is strange to leave the IDE but honestly for every day
>> debugging browsers provide everything you need. There may be some hiccups
>> here and there but overall it is useable and it is not at all comparable to
>> the situation around the time GWT was invented. Back in these days "use
>> your Java debugging tools" was a very strong argument but today browsers
>> have catch up and will continue to catch up. If GWT will provide debugging
>> in IDEs with SDM then it is only for convenience.
>>
>> You must become a web developer even if choosing GWT and you should
>> understand the browser platform sooner or later just like you need to
>> understand Swing when doing Java Desktop apps.
>>
>> I think the most risky thing of GWT proper was to ignore mobile too long
>> and now it has to catch up quickly. With this in mind, SDM is actually a
>> huge plus for GWT because it enables you to build/debug mobile apps more
>> easily. With DevMode only, developing mobile apps is painful.
>>
>>
>> -- J.
>>
>>  --
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jérôme Beau]

Hi Jens,

Just for the record : do you agree that using SDM you cannot inspect Java 
values of Java variables in your browser? I agree about the mobile dev, 
about knowing the underlying web platform, about everything but... any 
debugging session, Java or JS, have to be consistent : if I debug JS, I 
expect to have JS inspections ; if I debug Java (even in the browser 
through sourcemaps), I expect to see Java values and Java symbols, and I 
expect that my conditional breakpoints occur on Java expressions, not JS 
expressions. That's it. Otherwise I would have used a JS framework.

Is there a tiny possibility that GWT can provide this in some future? 


Le mercredi 2 avril 2014 12:47:45 UTC+2, Jens a écrit :
>
> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently 
>> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this 
>> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices 
>> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.
>>
>
> But there is no other viable solution and the transition was actually 
> planed more smoothly. I can understand that many people can not use SDM 
> just because the SDM compilation is too slow for their project. But I don't 
> understand people saying that debugging with SDM is a pain. Yeah for a Java 
> developer it is strange to leave the IDE but honestly for every day 
> debugging browsers provide everything you need. There may be some hiccups 
> here and there but overall it is useable and it is not at all comparable to 
> the situation around the time GWT was invented. Back in these days "use 
> your Java debugging tools" was a very strong argument but today browsers 
> have catch up and will continue to catch up. If GWT will provide debugging 
> in IDEs with SDM then it is only for convenience. 
>
> You must become a web developer even if choosing GWT and you should 
> understand the browser platform sooner or later just like you need to 
> understand Swing when doing Java Desktop apps.
>
> I think the most risky thing of GWT proper was to ignore mobile too long 
> and now it has to catch up quickly. With this in mind, SDM is actually a 
> huge plus for GWT because it enables you to build/debug mobile apps more 
> easily. With DevMode only, developing mobile apps is painful.
>
>
> -- J.
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 3:05:22 PM UTC+2, stuckagain wrote:
>
> For me it will depend how well SDM works with IE because that is the main 
> browser that I need to support. Not all GWT applications are put on the 
> internet and in an enterprise environment (more specifically banking) IE is 
> still king. It will already be a big battle to get them to move to IE9 or 
> preferably IE10 or newer.
>  
> I could use FireFox/Chrome in dev (and I do actually) but I need to often 
> debug in IE because of issues that only happen there and with SDM that can 
> be painful.
>

AFAICT, for the time being, and for the coming year(s?), DevMode will still 
be supported in IE. Specifically because IE Developer Tools aren't really 
developers' friends and don't support Source Maps.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[David]

For me it will depend how well SDM works with IE because that is the main
browser that I need to support. Not all GWT applications are put on the
internet and in an enterprise environment (more specifically banking) IE is
still king. It will already be a big battle to get them to move to IE9 or
preferably IE10 or newer.

I could use FireFox/Chrome in dev (and I do actually) but I need to often
debug in IE because of issues that only happen there and with SDM that can
be painful.



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Jens  wrote:

> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently
>> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this
>> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices
>> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.
>>
>
> But there is no other viable solution and the transition was actually
> planed more smoothly. I can understand that many people can not use SDM
> just because the SDM compilation is too slow for their project. But I don't
> understand people saying that debugging with SDM is a pain. Yeah for a Java
> developer it is strange to leave the IDE but honestly for every day
> debugging browsers provide everything you need. There may be some hiccups
> here and there but overall it is useable and it is not at all comparable to
> the situation around the time GWT was invented. Back in these days "use
> your Java debugging tools" was a very strong argument but today browsers
> have catch up and will continue to catch up. If GWT will provide debugging
> in IDEs with SDM then it is only for convenience.
>
> You must become a web developer even if choosing GWT and you should
> understand the browser platform sooner or later just like you need to
> understand Swing when doing Java Desktop apps.
>
> I think the most risky thing of GWT proper was to ignore mobile too long
> and now it has to catch up quickly. With this in mind, SDM is actually a
> huge plus for GWT because it enables you to build/debug mobile apps more
> easily. With DevMode only, developing mobile apps is painful.
>
>
> -- J.
>
>  --
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

>
> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently 
> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this 
> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices 
> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.
>

But there is no other viable solution and the transition was actually 
planed more smoothly. I can understand that many people can not use SDM 
just because the SDM compilation is too slow for their project. But I don't 
understand people saying that debugging with SDM is a pain. Yeah for a Java 
developer it is strange to leave the IDE but honestly for every day 
debugging browsers provide everything you need. There may be some hiccups 
here and there but overall it is useable and it is not at all comparable to 
the situation around the time GWT was invented. Back in these days "use 
your Java debugging tools" was a very strong argument but today browsers 
have catch up and will continue to catch up. If GWT will provide debugging 
in IDEs with SDM then it is only for convenience. 

You must become a web developer even if choosing GWT and you should 
understand the browser platform sooner or later just like you need to 
understand Swing when doing Java Desktop apps.

I think the most risky thing of GWT proper was to ignore mobile too long 
and now it has to catch up quickly. With this in mind, SDM is actually a 
huge plus for GWT because it enables you to build/debug mobile apps more 
easily. With DevMode only, developing mobile apps is painful.


-- J.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Aleksander Gralak]

Do not agree. A lot of people complain about it.


2014-04-02 11:05 GMT+02:00 Jérôme Beau :

> Hi Thomas,
>
> I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently
> (tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this
> is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices
> of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.
>
> By non-mature, I mean a SDM that lacks features DM had, such as Java-level
> inspection (inspecting Java values of Java variables). I am amazed that
> nobody complains about this loss. Even if you achieve proper support for
> debugging in SDM from the IDE, will it allow such Java-level inspection ? I
> doubt it, you'll only allow JS-level inpections, while allowing Java-level
> stepping, which does not fit the GWT promise of keeping at the Java level.
> This is the reason why most of GWT developpers use it.
>
>
> Le mercredi 5 mars 2014 10:15:55 UTC+1, Thomas Broyer a écrit :
>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:30:54 AM UTC+1, Ed wrote:
>>>
>>> > They have to change, they have to update their tools and move forward,
>>> or quit doing Web dev.
>>> Agree, that's why I spend a lot of grey hairs in using SDM, but it's
>>> simple not there yet saidly... Don't get me wrong, I wish it would as I
>>> certainly see the advantages.
>>>
>>
>> And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying SDM is either perfect nor 100%
>> usable yet. I was just reacting to the fact people complain that DevMode
>> won't be maintained anymore as they don't *want* to move to SDM (which is
>> entirely different from your “I tried, it didn't work” situation).
>> We're currently in a transition period where DevMode is already half-dead
>> and SDM isn't 100% usable yet. Hopefully SDM should be much better by the
>> next release, with incremental compilation (that'll have an impact on your
>> code to really take advantage of it).
>>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jérôme Beau]

Hi Thomas,

I just realized that lack of Firefox 27+ support for dev mode recently 
(tried it because Chrome's plugin crashed too often) and really think this 
is a shoot in the foot for GWT : even if you don't control Mozilla choices 
of course, forcing to move to a non-mature SDM is very risky for GWT itself.

By non-mature, I mean a SDM that lacks features DM had, such as Java-level 
inspection (inspecting Java values of Java variables). I am amazed that 
nobody complains about this loss. Even if you achieve proper support for 
debugging in SDM from the IDE, will it allow such Java-level inspection ? I 
doubt it, you'll only allow JS-level inpections, while allowing Java-level 
stepping, which does not fit the GWT promise of keeping at the Java level. 
This is the reason why most of GWT developpers use it.


Le mercredi 5 mars 2014 10:15:55 UTC+1, Thomas Broyer a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:30:54 AM UTC+1, Ed wrote:
>>
>> > They have to change, they have to update their tools and move forward, 
>> or quit doing Web dev.
>> Agree, that's why I spend a lot of grey hairs in using SDM, but it's 
>> simple not there yet saidly... Don't get me wrong, I wish it would as I 
>> certainly see the advantages.
>>
>
> And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying SDM is either perfect nor 100% 
> usable yet. I was just reacting to the fact people complain that DevMode 
> won't be maintained anymore as they don't *want* to move to SDM (which is 
> entirely different from your “I tried, it didn't work” situation).
> We're currently in a transition period where DevMode is already half-dead 
> and SDM isn't 100% usable yet. Hopefully SDM should be much better by the 
> next release, with incremental compilation (that'll have an impact on your 
> code to really take advantage of it).
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[dhoffer]

Could you elaborate on how you have your POM setup?  I'm trying to make the 
switch to SDM but I get errors running run-codeserver.  Your setup seems 
ideal I'd like to know how you have both of those things configured.  Not 
sure it matters but I use IntelliJ instead of Eclipse...DM worked great.

-Dave

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:36:41 PM UTC-7, Joseph Lust wrote:
>
> I'm surprised more folks are not excited to jump ship to SuperDevMode. 
>
> I'd argue Eclipse DevMode is more pain than it's worth. Certainly, it is 
> very cool to have your backend and frontend breakpoints set and hit on the 
> same screen. Yet I've spent a lot of time trying to all of the *Run 
> Configurations* setup properly. Have a multi-module project? Have an OSGi 
> project? Trying to debug a remote server? Working with JSO's? It's a bit of 
> trial and error and not always possible. Startup is slow. Recompile is even 
> slower and it's a memory hog, crashing with OutOfMemory more than I'd like. 
> Plus, you need a ring of chicken blood around your computer to ward of 
> breakages with new browser upgrades.
>
> Enter SDM. I open one console type *mvn tomcat7:run-war*. I open a second 
> and run *mvn gwt:run-codeserver*. No need for configuration settings 
> windows and embedded Jetty's. No need to *even have an IDE at all*! 
> Personally I find simpler, imperative tooling much easier to use and 
> troubleshoot. Add to this Chrome Dev Tools will be a full fledged IDE soon 
> at the rate they're adding features and FF Dev Tools have also come a very 
> long way since FireBug.
>
> Finally, don't we want the GWT team to spend their time building new 
> features rather than keeping old tooling alive in the ICU? I think GWT's 
> hit an inflection point where dumping IE everything and DevMode would free 
> up a lot of resources. Many projects never make such painful decisions and 
> become dinosaurs for it. I hope GWT does not.
>
> Sincerely,
> Joseph
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Juan Pablo Gardella]

Hello James,

after replace ui.xml by pure javadoes the application compile faster? I
thought ui.xml views increment a lot the compiler time.

Juan


2014-03-27 23:58 GMT-03:00 James Wendel :

> My company got screwed by using GXT2 with gxt-uibinder library that broke
> with GWT 2.5 due to compiler changes. We've been stuck on GWT 2.4 for that
> reason as we had 100+ .ui.xml files to convert to pure java. We finally did
> the work, but it was definitely a painful lesson.
>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ed Bras]

Can't agree more. Same experience, even contributed to mygwt (previous name
of GXT)...
The nice thing about GWT: making easy/fast small lib's, is also a risk; not
being maintained..

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Friday, March 28, 2014 3:58:00 AM UTC+1, James Wendel wrote:
>
> My company got screwed by using GXT2 with gxt-uibinder library that broke 
> with GWT 2.5 due to compiler changes. We've been stuck on GWT 2.4 for that 
> reason as we had 100+ .ui.xml files to convert to pure java. We finally did 
> the work, but it was definitely a painful lesson.


I hope the lesson is to avoid relying too much on hacks (particularly when 
coming from a third party).
(been there, done that)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[James Wendel]

My company got screwed by using GXT2 with gxt-uibinder library that broke with 
GWT 2.5 due to compiler changes. We've been stuck on GWT 2.4 for that reason as 
we had 100+ .ui.xml files to convert to pure java. We finally did the work, but 
it was definitely a painful lesson. 

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:30:54 AM UTC+1, Ed wrote:
>
> > They have to change, they have to update their tools and move forward, 
> or quit doing Web dev.
> Agree, that's why I spend a lot of grey hairs in using SDM, but it's 
> simple not there yet saidly... Don't get me wrong, I wish it would as I 
> certainly see the advantages.
>

And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying SDM is either perfect nor 100% 
usable yet. I was just reacting to the fact people complain that DevMode 
won't be maintained anymore as they don't *want* to move to SDM (which is 
entirely different from your “I tried, it didn't work” situation).
We're currently in a transition period where DevMode is already half-dead 
and SDM isn't 100% usable yet. Hopefully SDM should be much better by the 
next release, with incremental compilation (that'll have an impact on your 
code to really take advantage of it).

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ed Bras]

> They have to change, they have to update their tools and move forward, or
quit doing Web dev.
Agree, that's why I spend a lot of grey hairs in using SDM, but it's simple
not there yet saidly... Don't get me wrong, I wish it would as I certainly
see the advantages.

I noticed that it's hard to understand these reasons by people that have
their focus on "Hello world" app's or hardly touch enterprise alike GWT
app's...

BTW: for none enterprise app's, I use others JS frameworks like JQuery.
GWT: heavier business logica (= call it Enterprise app's or some other
beautiful trendy name), share with backend...

Just my 50 cents to have a good understanding what we talk about..

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

And as a corollary, Enterprise culture has a HUGE resistance to change. There 
are people out there still using GWT 2.4 (more than 2 years old already!) or 
even older versions. The problem is with these people and that culture; most of 
the time they chose GWT (and webapps) for bad reasons, and fall into the 
Enterprisey over engineering trap that makes GWT painful to use (bloated apps). 
They have to change, they have to update their tools and move forward, or quit 
doing Web dev.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ed Bras]

> I'm surprised more folks are not excited to jump ship to SuperDevMode.
I think because many dev peeps use GWT for enterprise projects.(and
they should of course)...
And for bigger projects, SDM is (still) hard to use (as explained in this
post, and I "really" tried/used it several times).
Really hoping this will change soon...

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Joseph Lust]

I'm surprised more folks are not excited to jump ship to SuperDevMode. 

I'd argue Eclipse DevMode is more pain than it's worth. Certainly, it is 
very cool to have your backend and frontend breakpoints set and hit on the 
same screen. Yet I've spent a lot of time trying to all of the *Run 
Configurations* setup properly. Have a multi-module project? Have an OSGi 
project? Trying to debug a remote server? Working with JSO's? It's a bit of 
trial and error and not always possible. Startup is slow. Recompile is even 
slower and it's a memory hog, crashing with OutOfMemory more than I'd like. 
Plus, you need a ring of chicken blood around your computer to ward of 
breakages with new browser upgrades.

Enter SDM. I open one console type *mvn tomcat7:run-war*. I open a second 
and run *mvn gwt:run-codeserver*. No need for configuration settings 
windows and embedded Jetty's. No need to *even have an IDE at all*! 
Personally I find simpler, imperative tooling much easier to use and 
troubleshoot. Add to this Chrome Dev Tools will be a full fledged IDE soon 
at the rate they're adding features and FF Dev Tools have also come a very 
long way since FireBug.

Finally, don't we want the GWT team to spend their time building new 
features rather than keeping old tooling alive in the ICU? I think GWT's 
hit an inflection point where dumping IE everything and DevMode would free 
up a lot of resources. Many projects never make such painful decisions and 
become dinosaurs for it. I hope GWT does not.

Sincerely,
Joseph

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:48:25 PM UTC+1, joerg.h...@googlemail.com 
wrote:
>
> Hi Jens,
>
> > Maybe you should just give it a serious try ?
> I already gave SDM several tries. However it never worked in my case at 
> all. The problem is that I am not just doing a hello world with GWT but 
> some rather complex UI framework with some special aspects. I hope that I 
> do not appear just to be a ignorant jerk. Maybe SDM can convince me some 
> day...
> Hopefully someone can help me. I always get this:
>
> workDir: 
> C:\Users\hohwille\AppData\Local\Temp\gwt-codeserver-8835691028753667732.tmp
> log4j:WARN No appenders could be found for logger 
> (org.eclipse.jetty.util.log).
> log4j:WARN Please initialize the log4j system properly.
> log4j:WARN See http://logging.apache.org/log4j/1.2/faq.html#noconfig for 
> more info.
> binding: user.agent=safari
> binding: compiler.useSourceMaps=true
> binding: locale=en
> Compiling module net.sf.mmm.app.Mmm
>Validating units:
>   Ignored 17 units with compilation errors in first pass.
> Compile with -strict or with -logLevel set to TRACE or DEBUG to see all 
> errors.
>Finding entry point classes
>   [ERROR] Unable to find type 'net.sf.mmm.app.client.Mmm'
>  [ERROR] Hint: Check that the type name 
> 'net.sf.mmm.app.client.Mmm' is really what you meant
>  [ERROR] Hint: Check that your classpath includes all required 
> source roots
> [ERROR] Compiler returned false
> com.google.gwt.core.ext.UnableToCompleteException: (see previous log 
> entries)
> at 
> com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.Recompiler.compile(Recompiler.java:128)
> at 
> com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.ModuleState.(ModuleState.java:58)
> at 
> com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.makeModules(CodeServer.java:120)
> at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.start(CodeServer.java:95)
> at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.main(CodeServer.java:71)
> at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.main(CodeServer.java:49)
>
> This is all confusing:
> > Unable to find type 'net.sf.mmm.app.client.Mmm'
> That is actually my entry Point and it is available in the m2e project 
> from that I run the SDM. Also didn't GWT say the following so it should 
> have already found the type:
> > Compiling module net.sf.mmm.app.Mmm
>

That's the module (gwt.xml), which references the entry point.

How are you launching SDM? Using M2E or just a “Java application” Eclipse 
launch configuration? How is it configured?
 

> Also confusing:
> > Compile with -strict or with -logLevel set to TRACE or DEBUG to see all 
> errors.
> IMHO there is no such option for com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer
>

That's right.
 

> > [ERROR] Hint: Check that your classpath includes all required source 
> roots
> I am using m2e in Eclipse and my codebase is VERY modular. Maybe that is 
> the source of the problem.
>

Maybe, maybe not. Hard to tell without knowing more about the way you 
launch SDM.

(also: maybe better to start a new thread, for others that could search the 
group archives in the future)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[joerg.hohwil...@googlemail.com]

Hi Jens,

> Maybe you should just give it a serious try ?
I already gave SDM several tries. However it never worked in my case at 
all. The problem is that I am not just doing a hello world with GWT but 
some rather complex UI framework with some special aspects. I hope that I 
do not appear just to be a ignorant jerk. Maybe SDM can convince me some 
day...
Hopefully someone can help me. I always get this:

workDir: 
C:\Users\hohwille\AppData\Local\Temp\gwt-codeserver-8835691028753667732.tmp
log4j:WARN No appenders could be found for logger 
(org.eclipse.jetty.util.log).
log4j:WARN Please initialize the log4j system properly.
log4j:WARN See http://logging.apache.org/log4j/1.2/faq.html#noconfig for 
more info.
binding: user.agent=safari
binding: compiler.useSourceMaps=true
binding: locale=en
Compiling module net.sf.mmm.app.Mmm
   Validating units:
  Ignored 17 units with compilation errors in first pass.
Compile with -strict or with -logLevel set to TRACE or DEBUG to see all 
errors.
   Finding entry point classes
  [ERROR] Unable to find type 'net.sf.mmm.app.client.Mmm'
 [ERROR] Hint: Check that the type name 'net.sf.mmm.app.client.Mmm' 
is really what you meant
 [ERROR] Hint: Check that your classpath includes all required 
source roots
[ERROR] Compiler returned false
com.google.gwt.core.ext.UnableToCompleteException: (see previous log 
entries)
at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.Recompiler.compile(Recompiler.java:128)
at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.ModuleState.(ModuleState.java:58)
at 
com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.makeModules(CodeServer.java:120)
at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.start(CodeServer.java:95)
at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.main(CodeServer.java:71)
at com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer.main(CodeServer.java:49)

This is all confusing:
> Unable to find type 'net.sf.mmm.app.client.Mmm'
That is actually my entry Point and it is available in the m2e project from 
that I run the SDM. Also didn't GWT say the following so it should have 
already found the type:
> Compiling module net.sf.mmm.app.Mmm
Also confusing:
> Compile with -strict or with -logLevel set to TRACE or DEBUG to see all 
errors.
IMHO there is no such option for com.google.gwt.dev.codeserver.CodeServer
> [ERROR] Hint: Check that your classpath includes all required source roots
I am using m2e in Eclipse and my codebase is VERY modular. Maybe that is 
the source of the problem.

Any help would be highly appreciated...
BTW: I found some workarounds for my Jetty problem and can at least run 
DevMode with FF 26 on 2.6.0 now.

Regards
  Jörg

Am Freitag, 28. Februar 2014 09:59:10 UTC+1 schrieb Jens:
>
> you can evaluate deeply into variables and objects,
>>
>
> You can do that in Chrome 
>  
>
>> add conditional breakpoints, 
>>
>
> You can do that in Chrome 
>  
>
>> exception breakpoints, 
>>
>
> You can do that in Chrome 
>  
>
>> dynamically evaluate expressions, 
>>
>
> You can do that in Chrome 
>
>
> So the most important things are covered. Maybe you should just give it a 
> serious try ?
>
> -- J.
>
>  
>
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Friday, February 28, 2014 1:59:24 AM UTC+1, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what the Jetty problems are but they should be fixed. Do we 
> have a good bug report for them?
>

There's a strange classloader 
issue: https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8585
And a small regression on something we never really actually 
supported: https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8526
…and now that we're using Jetty 8, people are sking for more 
;-) https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8472

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Nagin Kothari]

I do not know what Jetty problem  Jörg  is talking about. I am using GWT
2.6 with FF 26 and I am able to use DevMode.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:21 AM, joerg.hohwil...@googlemail.com <
joerg.hohwil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I can understand that it is a hard task to maintain the GWT and especially
> DevMode with its plugins.
> However, the hole thing about GWT is that you can do pure Java and use the
> Java tooling.
> Developers know how to work with Eclipse. And within the Eclipse debugger
> you can evaluate deeply into variables and objects, add conditional
> breakpoints, exception breakpoints, dynamically evaluate expressions, have
> step filters, drop to frame, etc., etc.
> I am a power user and going to SDM with chrome debugger is simply no
> alternative and will IMHO never be.
> With GWT 2.6.0 DevMode even stopped working due to Jetty problems so I can
> not even use it with older FF versions.
> This is a real pain for me. I am wondering if I wasted the last years
> building on GWT all nights (
> https://github.com/m-m-m/mmm/tree/master/mmm-client/mmm-client-ui/mmm-client-ui-widget/mmm-client-ui-widget-impl-web-gwt).
> Then I could also assimilate with JS hell and go for AngularJS.
> Sorry for being so negative but I am really frustrated. Thanks for all
> your support on GWT (2.6.0 brings J1.7 syntax support, etc. what is really
> cool) and your will to improve it in the future. Maybe you can change my
> mind one fine day and bring me back...
>
> Regards
>   Jörg
>
> Am Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2014 11:57:30 UTC+1 schrieb Thomas Broyer:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, m...@touk.pl wrote:
>>>
>>> Couldn't agree more... debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE
>>> debugger (Eclipse in my case) is base of my every day work :(
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure the SDBG devs would love to hear your feedback ;-)
>> https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg
>>
>>
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> "Google Web Toolkit" group.
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-- 
Nagin Kothari
Co-founder,
Zilicus Solutions
www.zilicus.com

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

>
> you can evaluate deeply into variables and objects,
>

You can do that in Chrome 
 

> add conditional breakpoints, 
>

You can do that in Chrome 
 

> exception breakpoints, 
>

You can do that in Chrome 
 

> dynamically evaluate expressions, 
>

You can do that in Chrome 


So the most important things are covered. Maybe you should just give it a 
serious try ?

-- J.

 


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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ümit Seren]

The Chrome Dev Tools support actually most of  eclipse's debugger features 
like: 
  - Evaluating deeply into variables
  - Conditional breakpoints
  - Exception breakpoints (break on uncaught exception and any exception)
  - Dynamically evaluating expressions 

Missing features are AFAIK "Drop to frame" and "step filters". 

However an advantage of SDM is that you can visually evaluate and the DOM 
and also inspect javascript objects (both are not really possible in 
eclipse).

  

On Friday, February 28, 2014 1:51:45 AM UTC+1, joerg.h...@googlemail.comwrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I can understand that it is a hard task to maintain the GWT and especially 
> DevMode with its plugins.
> However, the hole thing about GWT is that you can do pure Java and use the 
> Java tooling.
> Developers know how to work with Eclipse. And within the Eclipse debugger 
> you can evaluate deeply into variables and objects, add conditional 
> breakpoints, exception breakpoints, dynamically evaluate expressions, have 
> step filters, drop to frame, etc., etc.
> I am a power user and going to SDM with chrome debugger is simply no 
> alternative and will IMHO never be.
> With GWT 2.6.0 DevMode even stopped working due to Jetty problems so I can 
> not even use it with older FF versions.
> This is a real pain for me. I am wondering if I wasted the last years 
> building on GWT all nights (
> https://github.com/m-m-m/mmm/tree/master/mmm-client/mmm-client-ui/mmm-client-ui-widget/mmm-client-ui-widget-impl-web-gwt).
>  
> Then I could also assimilate with JS hell and go for AngularJS.
> Sorry for being so negative but I am really frustrated. Thanks for all 
> your support on GWT (2.6.0 brings J1.7 syntax support, etc. what is really 
> cool) and your will to improve it in the future. Maybe you can change my 
> mind one fine day and bring me back...
>
> Regards
>   Jörg
>
> Am Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2014 11:57:30 UTC+1 schrieb Thomas Broyer:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, m...@touk.pl wrote:
>>>
>>> Couldn't agree more... debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE 
>>> debugger (Eclipse in my case) is base of my every day work :(
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure the SDBG devs would love to hear your feedback ;-)
>> https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg
>>  
>>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

I'm not sure what the Jetty problems are but they should be fixed. Do we
have a good bug report for them?

(In our setup we see stack traces but Jetty still runs.)

- Brian



On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 4:51 PM, joerg.hohwil...@googlemail.com <
joerg.hohwil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I can understand that it is a hard task to maintain the GWT and especially
> DevMode with its plugins.
> However, the hole thing about GWT is that you can do pure Java and use the
> Java tooling.
> Developers know how to work with Eclipse. And within the Eclipse debugger
> you can evaluate deeply into variables and objects, add conditional
> breakpoints, exception breakpoints, dynamically evaluate expressions, have
> step filters, drop to frame, etc., etc.
> I am a power user and going to SDM with chrome debugger is simply no
> alternative and will IMHO never be.
> With GWT 2.6.0 DevMode even stopped working due to Jetty problems so I can
> not even use it with older FF versions.
> This is a real pain for me. I am wondering if I wasted the last years
> building on GWT all nights (
> https://github.com/m-m-m/mmm/tree/master/mmm-client/mmm-client-ui/mmm-client-ui-widget/mmm-client-ui-widget-impl-web-gwt).
> Then I could also assimilate with JS hell and go for AngularJS.
> Sorry for being so negative but I am really frustrated. Thanks for all
> your support on GWT (2.6.0 brings J1.7 syntax support, etc. what is really
> cool) and your will to improve it in the future. Maybe you can change my
> mind one fine day and bring me back...
>
> Regards
>   Jörg
>
> Am Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2014 11:57:30 UTC+1 schrieb Thomas Broyer:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, m...@touk.pl wrote:
>>>
>>> Couldn't agree more... debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE
>>> debugger (Eclipse in my case) is base of my every day work :(
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure the SDBG devs would love to hear your feedback ;-)
>> https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg
>>
>>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[joerg.hohwil...@googlemail.com]

Hi there,

I can understand that it is a hard task to maintain the GWT and especially 
DevMode with its plugins.
However, the hole thing about GWT is that you can do pure Java and use the 
Java tooling.
Developers know how to work with Eclipse. And within the Eclipse debugger 
you can evaluate deeply into variables and objects, add conditional 
breakpoints, exception breakpoints, dynamically evaluate expressions, have 
step filters, drop to frame, etc., etc.
I am a power user and going to SDM with chrome debugger is simply no 
alternative and will IMHO never be.
With GWT 2.6.0 DevMode even stopped working due to Jetty problems so I can 
not even use it with older FF versions.
This is a real pain for me. I am wondering if I wasted the last years 
building on GWT all nights 
(https://github.com/m-m-m/mmm/tree/master/mmm-client/mmm-client-ui/mmm-client-ui-widget/mmm-client-ui-widget-impl-web-gwt).
 
Then I could also assimilate with JS hell and go for AngularJS.
Sorry for being so negative but I am really frustrated. Thanks for all your 
support on GWT (2.6.0 brings J1.7 syntax support, etc. what is really cool) 
and your will to improve it in the future. Maybe you can change my mind one 
fine day and bring me back...

Regards
  Jörg

Am Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2014 11:57:30 UTC+1 schrieb Thomas Broyer:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, m...@touk.pl wrote:
>>
>> Couldn't agree more... debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE 
>> debugger (Eclipse in my case) is base of my every day work :(
>>
>
> I'm sure the SDBG devs would love to hear your feedback ;-)
> https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg
>  
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

I'm not sure there's much to discuss. Firefox 27 is already released, and
we do want to move off of Dev Mode sooner or later for other reasons. I
don't feel comfortable asking them to bring back an API that they never
officially supported anyway and it seems unlikely that they'd agree.
Running Firefox 24 seems like an acceptable workaround.

Regarding the Firefox-specific debugger API's, I'm not sure it's worth even
figuring out if it's feasible or not since our plan is to move to Super Dev
Mode. But if someone wants to take a look then go ahead.

- Brian



On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Benjamin Bitdiddle <
benbitdiddl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Would anyone like to follow up the last comment on the bugzilla thread,
> where a FF dev claims that:
>
> Most C++ JSAPI usage in extensions can in fact be replaced by a combination 
> of privileged script and the debugger APIs
>>
>>
> I assume we wouldn't be seeing this thread if that was really true as you
> guys would have just updated the plugin.
>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Benjamin Bitdiddle]

Would anyone like to follow up the last comment on the bugzilla thread, 
where a FF dev claims that:

Most C++ JSAPI usage in extensions can in fact be replaced by a combination of 
privileged script and the debugger APIs
>
>
I assume we wouldn't be seeing this thread if that was really true as you 
guys would have just updated the plugin.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[bruciadmin]

This is a pretty important change for me - looks like it's a downgrade to 
FF 26 a workaround is found. I had never heard of Super Dev mode but sounds 
like it's still got a fair way to go - and right now I need to focus on ROI 
for my work (retooling in the last 90% of a project is not an option with 
given deadlines).

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[mtr]

On Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:57:30 AM UTC+1, Thomas Broyer wrote:

> I'm sure the SDBG devs would love to hear your feedback ;-)
> https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg
>  
>

SDBG has a long way to come (it is still in proof of concept stage, there 
is no support for other browser then chrome), nether the less what else we 
can do but to help them.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, m...@touk.pl wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more... debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE 
> debugger (Eclipse in my case) is base of my every day work :(
>

I'm sure the SDBG devs would love to hear your feedback ;-)
https://github.com/sdbg/sdbg
 

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[mtr]

Couldn't agree more... debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE 
debugger (Eclipse in my case) is base of my every day work :(

On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:37:01 PM UTC+1, Jeff Evans wrote:
>
>
> Can someone clarify what is meant by "fully functional" for Super dev 
> mode?  In my view, debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE debugger, 
> alongside server-side Java code, is the "killer feature."  I can't believe 
> anyone would ever consider in-browser Javascript debugging to be an 
> acceptable replacement.  Or perhaps I'm missing something?
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ed Bras]

>  The Chrome debugger is quite good and I recommend learning it well;
It depends on your project. I been down this road, tried it several times
with several projects (few months ago last one).
Currently the Super Dev mode is "Hello World ready", but not "Enterprise
ready"

With new projects, I like to start with Super dev mode, but when it becomes
bigger... I am forced to jump back to FF/Chrome plugin usage.

Using it with bigger code base makes it slow and a code puzzle in chrome
debug.
For bigger projects, Chrome debugger should offer more IDE features that
make debugging easy and friendly, just like we are used to using IDE tools
like Eclipse.
Of course this will change, and I hope this will be soon..

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jeff Evans]

On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 1:03:15 PM UTC-5, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
>
> Super Dev Mode works and we have many teams that use it. The Chrome 
> debugger is quite good and I recommend learning it well; anyone working on 
> web apps will benefit from knowing this tool. For other browsers, adding a 
> GWT.debugger() call to the Java code and recompiling is an easy way to stop 
> in the right place. I discussed other workarounds in my GWT.create talk [1].
>
> It's an unfortunate transition and this experience is not as smooth as it 
> could be yet, but that's where we are.
>
> - Brian
>
> [1] 
> https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/presentation/d/1DTWZ_06dQsTPhinIwzHSdoPMndRr92wpZoZWicK97YQ/edit?forcehl=1&hl=en#s
>

Thanks, this presentation looks useful.
 

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

Super Dev Mode works and we have many teams that use it. The Chrome
debugger is quite good and I recommend learning it well; anyone working on
web apps will benefit from knowing this tool. For other browsers, adding a
GWT.debugger() call to the Java code and recompiling is an easy way to stop
in the right place. I discussed other workarounds in my GWT.create talk [1].

It's an unfortunate transition and this experience is not as smooth as it
could be yet, but that's where we are.

- Brian

[1]
https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/presentation/d/1DTWZ_06dQsTPhinIwzHSdoPMndRr92wpZoZWicK97YQ/edit?forcehl=1&hl=en#s

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Jeff Evans  wrote:

> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:30:50 AM UTC-5, Aleksander Gralak wrote:
>>
>> That is pretty bad information for all GWT developers.
>> For now I can stick with FF 24.2, however in the future we need to
>> develop on the most up to date browsers.
>>
>> When do you estimate Super Dev Mode will be production ready? If it is
>> more then 6 months then we should think of some workaround. Is is possible
>> to do a custom build of FF with all necessery symbols exported? According to
>>
>> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
>>
>> they have switched it off. But if someone (sorry I am not C++ developer
>> so I will not do it myself) can build GWT development version with those
>> symbols. Then we would be able to do development for several more months on
>> the latest browser and wait till Super Dev Mode if fully functional.
>>
>
> Can someone clarify what is meant by "fully functional" for Super dev
> mode?  In my view, debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE debugger,
> alongside server-side Java code, is the "killer feature."  I can't believe
> anyone would ever consider in-browser Javascript debugging to be an
> acceptable replacement.  Or perhaps I'm missing something?
>
> --
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jeff Evans]

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:30:50 AM UTC-5, Aleksander Gralak wrote:
>
> That is pretty bad information for all GWT developers. 
> For now I can stick with FF 24.2, however in the future we need to develop 
> on the most up to date browsers. 
>
> When do you estimate Super Dev Mode will be production ready? If it is 
> more then 6 months then we should think of some workaround. Is is possible 
> to do a custom build of FF with all necessery symbols exported? According to
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
>
> they have switched it off. But if someone (sorry I am not C++ developer so 
> I will not do it myself) can build GWT development version with those 
> symbols. Then we would be able to do development for several more months on 
> the latest browser and wait till Super Dev Mode if fully functional.
>
 
Can someone clarify what is meant by "fully functional" for Super dev mode? 
 In my view, debugging the client-side GWT code in the IDE debugger, 
alongside server-side Java code, is the "killer feature."  I can't believe 
anyone would ever consider in-browser Javascript debugging to be an 
acceptable replacement.  Or perhaps I'm missing something?

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Aleksander Gralak]

That is pretty bad information for all GWT developers. 
For now I can stick with FF 24.2, however in the future we need to develop 
on the most up to date browsers. 

When do you estimate Super Dev Mode will be production ready? If it is more 
then 6 months then we should think of some workaround. Is is possible to do 
a custom build of FF with all necessery symbols exported? According to

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731

they have switched it off. But if someone (sorry I am not C++ developer so 
I will not do it myself) can build GWT development version with those 
symbols. Then we would be able to do development for several more months on 
the latest browser and wait till Super Dev Mode if fully functional.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[sabin_97]

well. no more gwt for me then, until mozilla gives google access again. 
downgrading the browser(either by using chrome or an earlier version of 
firefox) is not acceptable for me. but i can wait. got lots of non-google 
projects to work on.


On Monday, February 3, 2014 8:01:41 PM UTC-4, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
>
> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin 
> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in 
> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>
> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working 
> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR 
> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you 
> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see 
> the issue tracker [3]. 
>
> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox 
> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>
> - Brian
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
> [2] 
> http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

I don't have a Mac. Chrome remote debug works great cross platform (tested with 
Chrome for Android, on Linux and Windows; should work w/ Chrome for iOS 
AFAICT). Firefox for Android (and FirefoxOS) should too (though I haven't 
tested it)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ed Bras]

> Remote debug works great too ;-)
Yes, if you have a Mac ;)  (I assume you mean Safari remote debugging ?
Else let me know, device independent (iphone, android))


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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

Remote debug works great too ;-)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ed]

Usage example of the chrome debugger (not as part of the Chrome browser): 
Wienre: http://people.apache.org/~pmuellr/weinre/docs/latest/
(A very nice tool btw for controlling your DOM on a mobile device)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Thursday, February 6, 2014 10:03:35 AM UTC+1, Kirill Prazdnikov wrote:
>
> Does the Chrome expose any kind of debugging interface so that any 
> front-end IDE can use and visualize it ?
>

https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/debugger-protocol 

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Kirill Prazdnikov]

Does the Chrome expose any kind of debugging interface so that any 
front-end IDE can use and visualize it ? 

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Wayne Rasmuss]

I second the bi-directional breakpoints idea. That's the biggest pain point 
for me with SDM. It stinks to track down some code in your IDE then have to 
track it down again in your browser to set the break point. If I didn't 
have to do that, I wouldn't miss debugging in the IDE much.

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 7:52:18 AM UTC-6, Ümit Seren wrote:
>
> Playing devil's advocate here: 
> I code in IntelliJ but I must say that I really like the experience that 
> the Chrome Developer Tools are providing. 
> From pure debugging point of view (stepping through the code) I actually 
> prefer the Dev Tools over the IDE because with the Dev Tools I can easily 
> change CSS styles, modify the DOM and see the results directly in the 
> browser. 
> Furthermore Chrome Dev Tools has some really good performance and 
> profiling tools built in. 
>
> There are a couple of pain points of course and things I would like to see 
> changed. 
> - Bi-directional breakpoints:  Currently if I want to set a breakpoint I 
> have to do it inside Chrome Deve Tools. It would be nice to be able to set 
> the breakpoint in my IDE and then debug inside Chrome Dev Tools and vice 
> versa. 
> - Sometimes Dev Tools crash or freeze (if you debug a huge project) or try 
> to display an array with many values. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:05:30 PM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No, really, the way forward is better tooling for SuperDevMode to 
>>> provide a similar experience to DevMode (i.e. never leave the IDE), and 
>>> even allow setting breakpoints and do step-by-step within JSNI.
>>>  
>>> Oh if this is possible than I'm ok, I was thinking that with 
>> SuperDevMode I would had been obliged to debug and breakpointing on browser 
>> development tools.
>> Then I need to have a look at it. 
>>
>> ...and yes if that is possible I agree that it is the way forward.
>>
>>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Ümit Seren]

Playing devil's advocate here: 
I code in IntelliJ but I must say that I really like the experience that 
the Chrome Developer Tools are providing. 
>From pure debugging point of view (stepping through the code) I actually 
prefer the Dev Tools over the IDE because with the Dev Tools I can easily 
change CSS styles, modify the DOM and see the results directly in the 
browser. 
Furthermore Chrome Dev Tools has some really good performance and profiling 
tools built in. 

There are a couple of pain points of course and things I would like to see 
changed. 
- Bi-directional breakpoints:  Currently if I want to set a breakpoint I 
have to do it inside Chrome Deve Tools. It would be nice to be able to set 
the breakpoint in my IDE and then debug inside Chrome Dev Tools and vice 
versa. 
- Sometimes Dev Tools crash or freeze (if you debug a huge project) or try 
to display an array with many values. 



On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:05:30 PM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>
>
>> No, really, the way forward is better tooling for SuperDevMode to provide 
>> a similar experience to DevMode (i.e. never leave the IDE), and even allow 
>> setting breakpoints and do step-by-step within JSNI.
>>  
>> Oh if this is possible than I'm ok, I was thinking that with SuperDevMode 
> I would had been obliged to debug and breakpointing on browser development 
> tools.
> Then I need to have a look at it. 
>
> ...and yes if that is possible I agree that it is the way forward.
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Cristiano Costantini]

>
>
> No, really, the way forward is better tooling for SuperDevMode to provide
> a similar experience to DevMode (i.e. never leave the IDE), and even allow
> setting breakpoints and do step-by-step within JSNI.
>
> Oh if this is possible than I'm ok, I was thinking that with SuperDevMode
I would had been obliged to debug and breakpointing on browser development
tools.
Then I need to have a look at it.

...and yes if that is possible I agree that it is the way forward.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 11:01:15 AM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>
> Anyway it would be great to find a workaround that don't require either 
> Flash or browser plugin or Java Applet...
>

Flash or applets wouldn't work, because a) they're going asynchronous too 
(Flash at least) and b) they can't get access to the internal APIs we need 
in DevMode plugins to make them work (and that have just been removed in 
Firefox 27); basically knowing the lifecycle of JS objects so we can send a 
message to the DevMode code server to free the corresponding Java 
objects/references and reclaim memory (but there might be other things we 
need).

As I said, using the debugger APIs/protocols could work, except again for 
detecting JS objects "finalization" (maybe if one day we see WeakRef in 
JavaScript, but it's not there yet).

No, really, the way forward is better tooling for SuperDevMode to provide a 
similar experience to DevMode (i.e. never leave the IDE), and even allow 
setting breakpoints and do step-by-step within JSNI.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Jens]

Anything people can look into to improve SDM performance? For example is it 
still worth it refactoring generators to be incremental generators or does 
the upcoming incremental compile of GWT does a better job at the end and it 
would be better to take a look at other things to improve SDM?

I think it would be great to have plan written down or at least very well 
organized issues in the bug tracker so that more people can work on 
improving SDM. With Firefox 27 not supporting DevMode and Chrome can break 
any time in the next months it may take too long for Brain alone to make 
SDM more useful.

-- J.

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Cristiano Costantini]

looking at the docs of webworkers and even them don't share any state, so
it won't work it too...
Anyway it would be great to find a workaround that don't require either
Flash or browser plugin or Java Applet...


2014-02-04 Cristiano Costantini :

> webworkers?
>
>
> 2014-02-04 Thomas Broyer :
>
>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 10:38:34 AM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>>>
>>>
 No, because we need blocking I/O, synchronous communication with the
 DevMode code server.

>>>
>>> mmm, good point...
>>> can we just block with a while?
>>>
>>
>> Because JS is single-threaded, you'll never know when to break out of the
>> while.
>>
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>>
>
>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Cristiano Costantini]

webworkers?


2014-02-04 Thomas Broyer :

>
>
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 10:38:34 AM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No, because we need blocking I/O, synchronous communication with the
>>> DevMode code server.
>>>
>>
>> mmm, good point...
>> can we just block with a while?
>>
>
> Because JS is single-threaded, you'll never know when to break out of the
> while.
>
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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 10:38:34 AM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>
>
>> No, because we need blocking I/O, synchronous communication with the 
>> DevMode code server.
>>
>
> mmm, good point...
> can we just block with a while?
>

Because JS is single-threaded, you'll never know when to break out of the 
while.

>

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Cristiano Costantini]

>
>
> No, because we need blocking I/O, synchronous communication with the
> DevMode code server.
>

mmm, good point...
can we just block with a while?


> The only solution would be to use the remote debugging protocols so you
> can really pause the execution in the browser while you do things in Java.
> I had started a proof of concept using the Flash Debugger to connect to an
> Adobe AIR runtime a while ago, could be used as a starting point if you
> want; but connecting a remote debugger (or using the debugger APIs from an
> extension) generally disables the browser's dev tools (at least it's the
> case in Chrome, don't know about Firefox).
>
> https://code.google.com/p/gwt-in-the-air/source/browse/branches/oophm/oophm/src/net/ltgt/gwt/air/shell/
>

I'll take a look.

Cristiano

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Thomas Broyer]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:05:16 AM UTC+1, Cristiano wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> I wonder how does it works the development mode plugin?
> Isn't it possible to replace it with something in pure javascript that is 
> based on Web Sockets?
>

No, because we need blocking I/O, synchronous communication with the 
DevMode code server.

Leif Åstrand (from Vaadin) tried something using synchronous 
XMLHttpRequests, but even synchronous XMLHttpRequests are going to 
disappear.

The only solution would be to use the remote debugging protocols so you can 
really pause the execution in the browser while you do things in Java. I 
had started a proof of concept using the Flash Debugger to connect to an 
Adobe AIR runtime a while ago, could be used as a starting point if you 
want; but connecting a remote debugger (or using the debugger APIs from an 
extension) generally disables the browser's dev tools (at least it's the 
case in Chrome, don't know about Firefox).
https://code.google.com/p/gwt-in-the-air/source/browse/branches/oophm/oophm/src/net/ltgt/gwt/air/shell/

Debugging in Eclipse the Javascript code is one of the most important 
> aspect of using GWT for me and I would be happy if it is possible to save 
> it.
>

The idea going forward is to use SourceMaps and remote debugging from the 
IDE, leveraging the same IDE code (and effort!) as for other "compiled to 
JS" languages (CoffeeScript, etc. or even just JS with a minifier or js2js 
compiler)

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Re: Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Cristiano Costantini]

Hi Brian,

I wonder how does it works the development mode plugin?
Isn't it possible to replace it with something in pure javascript that is
based on Web Sockets?

Yesterday I was making some test with this technology (see
https://github.com/cristcost/gwt-websocket) and it it seems it has good
support at least on latest Chrome, Firefox and IE (Safari don't works but
I've not investigated deeply why). For the server side, I used the Jetty 7
WebSocket implementation.

I would enjoy to have a look a the code but GWT src is big, could you
please tell where to look for if I would like to study the feasibility of
this idea?


Debugging in Eclipse the Javascript code is one of the most important
aspect of using GWT for me and I would be happy if it is possible to save
it.

Cristiano




2014-02-04 Brian Slesinsky :

> Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin
> relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in
> any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.
>
> As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working
> again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR
> track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you
> will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see
> the issue tracker [3].
>
> Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.
>
> I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox
> could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.
>
> - Brian
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
> [2]
> http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
> [3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553
>
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Development Mode will not be supported in Firefox 27+

[Brian Slesinsky]

Mozilla has stopped exporting some C++ symbols that the Firefox plugin 
relies on [1]. Therefore it's not possible to support Development Mode in 
any new versions of Firefox starting with 27.

As a workaround, I am doing one last release to get the plugin working 
again with Firefox 24.2 (and hopefully newer point releases on the ESR 
track). If you wish to continue to use Development Mode on Firefox, you 
will need to download this version from Mozilla [2]. For more details see 
the issue tracker [3]. 

Long-term, the plan is to improve Super Dev Mode.

I apologize for the late notice; when I said at GWT.create that Firefox 
could stop working with any release, I didn't expect it to be the next one.

- Brian

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=920731
[2] 
http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/24.2.0esr/
[3] https://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=8553

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