Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader...
But did you notice there are no women? Not even one! Every time I think I've spotted one, I realize it's just a man in poofy pants. *grumble*... There must have been *some* kind of woman, at *some* point, who came on one of those ships! :-P I think it was against Japanese law of the time for there to be namban women in Japan. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader...
Though you've already helped some, by writing "namban" instead of "nanban"... Now to do some more Googling... _ nam ban = southern barbarian viet nam - southern provence ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War
I found the reference to Judith Lopez's work on buttonhole closures: a short report, "Buttonholes: Some Differences in Gender-related Front Closures," In Dress, vol. 20, 1993. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Looking For Fabric Info
I was wondering if the amazingly knowledgable folks on this list could give me some feedback on what eras a woolen fabric would be appropriate for? I have a picture of it posted at my LiveJournal for those interested in taking a look. It's wool, the colors are good for most eras, and the slightly open twill is good for most of the eras I'd want to make. I'm just not sure about the overall look of the fabric. Opinions? http://seamstrix.livejournal.com/ Karen Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking For Fabric Info
At 09:20 AM 1/19/2007, you wrote: I was wondering if the amazingly knowledgable folks on this list could give me some feedback on what eras a woolen fabric would be appropriate for? I have a picture of it posted at my LiveJournal for those interested in taking a look. It's wool, the colors are good for most eras, and the slightly open twill is good for most of the eras I'd want to make. I'm just not sure about the overall look of the fabric. Opinions? http://seamstrix.livejournal.com/ Karen Seamstrix I would not hesitate to use it for 19th century outerwear, but I would not be comfortable using it for, say, Elizabethan. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking For Fabric Info
To me, the colors and overall look of the pattern is fine but looking closely at the weave pattern, it looks very modern. Diana > > I was wondering if the amazingly knowledgable folks on this list could > give me some feedback on what eras a woolen fabric would be appropriate > for? I have a picture of it posted at my LiveJournal for those interested > in taking a look. It's wool, the colors are good for most eras, and the > slightly open twill is good for most of the eras I'd want to make. I'm > just not sure about the overall look of the fabric. Opinions? > > http://seamstrix.livejournal.com/ > > Karen > Seamstrix > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Aprons (again)
These make me wonder whether the supposedly square / rectangular waist aprons, without a separate waistband, are extended in a similar way to provide ties. You need an extremely large square to be able to just tie the corners around your waist. But it does seem very wasteful if they are cut in one piece as they seem to be. Jean Lauren Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote It looks like waist-height aprons were often a square of linen with the top corners tied behind the back. In these Manesse Codex aprons, the smiths' aprons look as if they could be tied like napkins around the neck. The seed-sower here in October of The Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Barry http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/october.jpg is definitely wearing some kind of simple square or rectangle tied round the neck. But this seed-sower seems to have a more constructed version: http://classes.bnf.fr/idrisi/grand/1_04.htm (Peasants in the field in Le Régime des princes) A woman blacksmith and a man in The Holkham Bible Picture Book c. 1327-1335, http://www.bl.uk/learning/images/medieval/year/ large2163.html, seem to have aprons where the napkin has been slashed somehow to provide shoulder straps and waist ties. Does anyone have any thoughts on how these bib aprons might have been shaped or constructed? Thanks for your thoughts. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 13, 2007, at 3:51 PM, otsisto wrote: And the Manesse Codex but men. 1340 http://www.tempora-nostra.de/tempora-nostra/manesse.php?id=203&tfl=124 But not the waist tie ones. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Looking For Fabric Info
I believe that twill can be found in the Nordic culture 1000s. All I can say is the pattern looks feasable. They were creating intricate woven bands, I do not see why they would not be able to create this pattern. Maybe this will help some. http://www.vikingagevessels.org/documents/C_%20Viking%20Womens%20Costume.pdf De -Original Message- To me, the colors and overall look of the pattern is fine but looking closely at the weave pattern, it looks very modern. Diana > > I was wondering if the amazingly knowledgable folks on this list could > give me some feedback on what eras a woolen fabric would be appropriate > for? I have a picture of it posted at my LiveJournal for those interested > in taking a look. It's wool, the colors are good for most eras, and the > slightly open twill is good for most of the eras I'd want to make. I'm > just not sure about the overall look of the fabric. Opinions? > > http://seamstrix.livejournal.com/ > > Karen > Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Aprons (again)
Yes, that's among the problems for me -- if a standard loom width was in the 22 to 36-inch range, well, they are lucky they were skinnier than we are, and that fabric will skew when tugged at the corners. But the woman blacksmith's apron in particular seems to be sort of pulling and draping as if the shoulder straps were originally part of the horizontal somehow. Having just played with a nice 40-inch hemmed linen square I happen to have here, I find that while some of those drapes do happen with it, a lot of the look in the pictures is more bias-y somehow. The straight-cut square makes even more drapes and folds than I'm seeing in the apron pictures. So I wonder if these simple aprons were cut on the diagonal. But the way the bottom hems are straight makes me doubt this. I will be mucking about with linen over the next week or so for other reasons anyway (I have shifts and veils and caps and coifs to make!) and will try some experiments in the apron direction while I am at it. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 19, 2007, at 2:01 PM, Jean Waddie wrote: These make me wonder whether the supposedly square / rectangular waist aprons, without a separate waistband, are extended in a similar way to provide ties. You need an extremely large square to be able to just tie the corners around your waist. But it does seem very wasteful if they are cut in one piece as they seem to be. Jean Lauren Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote It looks like waist-height aprons were often a square of linen with the top corners tied behind the back. In these Manesse Codex aprons, the smiths' aprons look as if they could be tied like napkins around the neck. The seed-sower here in October of The Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Barry http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/october.jpg is definitely wearing some kind of simple square or rectangle tied round the neck. But this seed-sower seems to have a more constructed version: http://classes.bnf.fr/idrisi/grand/1_04.htm (Peasants in the field in Le Régime des princes) A woman blacksmith and a man in The Holkham Bible Picture Book c. 1327-1335, http://www.bl.uk/learning/images/medieval/year/ large2163.html, seem to have aprons where the napkin has been slashed somehow to provide shoulder straps and waist ties. Does anyone have any thoughts on how these bib aprons might have been shaped or constructed? Thanks for your thoughts. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 13, 2007, at 3:51 PM, otsisto wrote: And the Manesse Codex but men. 1340 http://www.tempora-nostra.de/tempora-nostra/manesse.php? id=203&tfl=124 But not the waist tie ones. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking For Fabric Info
I love checked and patterned wools, so I do not want to be discouraging! On p. 72 of _Woven Into The Earth_, Else Ostegard writes, "In Denmark check weaves can be traced from 2000-year-old ornamental weaves in light and dark check through a fine red and blue checked textile from the slightly later Lonne Heath find to Viking Era check weaves." So you can go WAY back with checks. But this fabric telegraphs 19th century to me, if you can find a Victorian coat or suit for it. BECAUSE I love checked and patterned wools, I would also concur with De that you might use it for some of the Northern and Western European cultures around 1000 or somewhat earlier. There are some three-shed twills with checks and stripes from the first half of the 14th century shown in _Textiles and Clothing_ , and also some references to 10th and 11th century examples -- the earlier ones apparently used different natural colors of wool to get the effect, which I think your palette of browns could emulate. After the 14th century fashions changed, and I'd be hard pressed to place this cloth between then and the Victorians. But that's just my 2¢. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 19, 2007, at 5:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering if the amazingly knowledgable folks on this list could give me some feedback on what eras a woolen fabric would be appropriate for? I have a picture of it posted at my LiveJournal for those interested in taking a look. It's wool, the colors are good for most eras, and the slightly open twill is good for most of the eras I'd want to make. I'm just not sure about the overall look of the fabric. Opinions? http://seamstrix.livejournal.com/ Karen Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking For Fabric Info
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering if the amazingly knowledgable folks on this list could give me some feedback on what eras a woolen fabric would be appropriate for? I have a picture of it posted at my LiveJournal for those interested in taking a look. It's wool, the colors are good for most eras, and the slightly open twill is good for most of the eras I'd want to make. I'm just not sure about the overall look of the fabric. Opinions? http://seamstrix.livejournal.com/ It's telling me it wants to be one of those little Chanel-inspired suits from about 1965. http://muze.sabanciuniv.edu/english/sergiler/eser_detay.php?eser_id=46&sergi_id=3&k=0 http://honors.umd.edu/HONR269J/projects/petzko/progressive/chanel.jpg Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Aprons (again)
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007, Jean Waddie wrote: > These make me wonder whether the supposedly square / rectangular waist > aprons, without a separate waistband, are extended in a similar way to > provide ties. You need an extremely large square to be able to just > tie the corners around your waist. But it does seem very wasteful if > they are cut in one piece as they seem to be. When I need an apron, I take a linen rectangle (which I normally use as a napkin), tie a ribbon or cord around my waist with the bow in front, fold over the short edge of the napkin by a handsbreadth, and tuck it into the ribbon to hold it across my front. You wouldn't be able to tell from a distance that the ribbon isn't attached. I have no authority for how I do this and wouldn't present it as "authentic," but it works, uses known technology, and looks like the pictures. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Aprons (again)
Robin Netherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote On Fri, 19 Jan 2007, Jean Waddie wrote: These make me wonder whether the supposedly square / rectangular waist aprons, without a separate waistband, are extended in a similar way to provide ties. You need an extremely large square to be able to just tie the corners around your waist. But it does seem very wasteful if they are cut in one piece as they seem to be. When I need an apron, I take a linen rectangle (which I normally use as a napkin), tie a ribbon or cord around my waist with the bow in front, fold over the short edge of the napkin by a handsbreadth, and tuck it into the ribbon to hold it across my front. You wouldn't be able to tell from a distance that the ribbon isn't attached. I have no authority for how I do this and wouldn't present it as "authentic," but it works, uses known technology, and looks like the pictures. --Robin I can see that for the narrow ones that hang flat. But can you reproduce the look of the ones that pull and drape, like the Bakery and Buttermaking ones? I find it particularly interesting that these don't seem to tie around the actual waist, but hang lower. -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] man's coat
http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_251.htm http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_32.htm Bjarne og Leif Drews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Oh gosh, Thanks for posting :-) Bjarne - Original Message - From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: [h-cost] man's coat > Thought some would like to see this. > http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_32.htm > > De > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr. Seuss Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. Ralph Waldo Emerson - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Aprons (again)
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007, Jean Waddie wrote: > I can see that for the narrow ones that hang flat. But can you > reproduce the look of the ones that pull and drape, like the Bakery > and Buttermaking ones? I find it particularly interesting that these > don't seem to tie around the actual waist, but hang lower. No -- I haven't made a thorough study of these. I found one that worked for what I needed on the spot, and stuck with it. It would be interesting to see what someone could come up with after a broader perusal of the sources. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nanban trader...
Hmm... but I need them to be 1600-ish... Look thru early ukiyo-e, Japanese colored woodblock prints. The art form was in full swing in 16th c Edo (Tokyo). There is a magnificent ukiyo-e Museum in Tokyo that I spent time at. Wonderful exhibits that changed every few weeks as their hang space was quite small, but the collection was over 12K prints. Ota Memorial Museum of Art. Check out Toyko National Museum, and look thru the painted scrolls, too. If you happen to be in/near SF the DeYoung has a Japanese collection, too. You will also find print of Westerners labeled "Southern Barbarians". Look also for 16th c waterfront views of famous port towns like Yokohama. Namban thanks I think you helped Actually, it's quite common to see Japanese words with "n" or "m" spelled either way when transliterated. Ditto the hard "g" & "k". Eventually the standard spelling gets codified in English. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] lovely 1880s dress
http://www.antiquedress.com/item4691.htm De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
