[h-cost] Finding information:
Hello everyone, I have just been observing your posts to one another, fascinated by the topics. Earlier periods aren't quite my interest but I find the bits of knowledge you contain very interesting. That is my second problem as a costumer, scholarly research. Aside from going onto websites and reading in timeline books where all the information is already researched and digested for others to read, which is my main source of learning, where do you find this stuff? The only thing I have thought of is to go to a library but than I wonder, where to beging digging deep into the collection to find original sources of info. The Victorian fashion era seems to be vwidely available on an informal research scale but where may I look for resources of the hardcore information that serious historians and researchers study before relaying all they've learned to the rest of us? One of these I will hit the FIT book store up in the fashion district, since they have not only a large collection but a course focusing on preservation and curatorial studies. Take care:) Justine More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] repeated posts
Is it just me, or has everyone received these last three posts several times? Laurie Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:31:42 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Money weights in accounts CC:At 01:43 19/02/2008, you wrote:the foreparte of the George of Dyamountes the Mayleof the curates and Rivet of the same of Siluer halfgilte with a sworde in his hand of gold a lozenged Dyamounte like a sheelde and a Dragon of gold weyingtogether iij oz di di quarter a little George of gold to hang at a Collar of garters weying one ounce quarter di Thanks for any help with this. KimikoJoan, I believe, has the right explanation for the above citation, but be careful. In some cases, a reference will be clear that the odd units refer to money rather than weight. Such as:'Item for the lynyng and mendyng of 2 vardgales 14d.' 1555. Petrie ArchivesIn this example, the costs are is 14d, where the d is denarius = a unit of money. I'm not clear how or why the Brits kept using d to refer to the old shilling coin. Perhaps it was a silver coin just as the roman denarius was? I leave to someone from the other side of the pond to explain further. I believe that d is actually pence, not shillings, in English money. We used to have, prior to decimalisation on 15/2/71, a system of pounds, shillings and pence, shortened to £.s.d. Therefore the 14d mentioned above is actually 14 pence, not shillings. I will try and check the origins of the notation - but am busy, so it might take a while. Suzi Thanks Suzi (and nice to hear from you!) Were there silver pennies in the 16th c? Still stuck on the denarius thing, ya see, And BTW, Kimiko, that's one big diamond George jewel that you've got described there. The three oz of gold alone makes a pricey bauble at today's rates. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] repeated posts
I see you haven't received a response in the past 4 hours. I only received it once. LynnD On 2/20/08, zelda crusher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it just me, or has everyone received these last three posts several times? Laurie Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:31:42 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Money weights in accounts CC:At 01:43 19/02/2008, you wrote:the foreparte of the George of Dyamountes the Mayleof the curates and Rivet of the same of Siluer halfgilte with a sworde in his hand of gold a lozenged Dyamounte like a sheelde and a Dragon of gold weyingtogether iij oz di di quarter a little George of gold to hang at a Collar ofgarters weying one ounce quarter di Thanks for any help with this. KimikoJoan, I believe, has the right explanation for the above citation, but be careful. In some cases, a reference will be clear that the odd units refer to money rather than weight. Such as:'Item for the lynyng and mendyng of 2 vardgales 14d.' 1555. Petrie ArchivesIn this example, the costs are is 14d, where the d is denarius = a unit of money. I'm not clear how or why the Brits kept using d to refer to the old shilling coin. Perhaps it was a silver coin just as the roman denarius was? I leave to someone from the other side of the pond to explain further. I believe that d is actually pence, not shillings, in English money. We used to have, prior to decimalisation on 15/2/71, a system of pounds, shillings and pence, shortened to £.s.d. Therefore the 14d mentioned above is actually 14 pence, not shillings. I will try and check the origins of the notation - but am busy, so it might take a while. Suzi Thanks Suzi (and nice to hear from you!) Were there silver pennies in the 16th c? Still stuck on the denarius thing, ya see, And BTW, Kimiko, that's one big diamond George jewel that you've got described there. The three oz of gold alone makes a pricey bauble at today's rates. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Finding information
Justine wrote: ...That is my second problem as a costumer, scholarly research. Aside from going onto websites and reading in timeline books where all the information is already researched and digested for others to read, which is my main source of learning, where do you find this stuff? The only thing I have thought of is to go to a library but than I wonder, where to begin digging deep into the collection to find original sources of info. First, you can always ask on this and other mailing lists. If you explain what types of things, centuries and geographic areas you're looking for, there will probably be lots of people who can give you book and article titles as a place to start. The more specific you can be, the better. You can also ask whether a particular book is considered to be a good one -- Iris Peacock's costume books, for instance, are not. With regards to libraries, you're on the right track. There is *much* more information available in book form than online (and it's often easier to tell whether the information is any good). People who teach research classes now have to hammer it into their students' heads that the Internet is *not* your best or only source for serious research. The bigger the library, the better the chances of it having useful material; university and college libraries are often the best place to start, especially if you don't live in a big city (big-city libraries are often good, too). Most university libraries are open to anyone who wants to walk in and look at things, and you can generally photocopy things even if you can't take them out. My local public university has a Friends of the Library program and I've had a card through them for years that lets me take out up to 10 books. The way I always start when researching a new area is to look up the call numbers (whatever system your library uses) for a few books in the right general subject area (in your case, historical clothing). A reference librarian can almost always help you with such a search, and many libraries now have their catalogs online. It doesn't much matter exactly which titles you start with. Step 2 is to go to the section of the shelves where those books are, and start looking at everything on the shelf that looks interesting or relevant. Pick out the ones where it looks as though the authors are basing what they say on actual research (i.e. probably _not_ So-and-so's Book of Quick'n'Easy Stage Costumes ;). Step 3 (and this is the key!) is to turn to the back of the book and read the BIBLIOGRAPHY. This will list the books and papers the authors used for reference. *This* is the important section to photocopy, because now you can go looking for any of _those_ books and articles that look relevant. Find those and repeat the process ;) One of the best sources of information on the nitty-gritty details of clothing is articles published in professional journals in history. The most practical way to discover which articles to look for is to get the references from someone else's bibliography. Again a reference librarian can help you sort out the cryptic note in the bibliography that says something like J. Hist. Text. 48:3-39 (I made that one up). Bound copies of the journal may be available in the library or on microfilm, even if they're not near the main bookshelf you started with. Of course, you will very soon begin to find books and articles that sound absolutely fascinating but that the library doesn't have. Inter-library loan is your friend here. You can generally ILL a specific book through your public library, although some library systems do this much better and more quickly than others (and some have to charge for the service, though most don't). Hope this helps -- ask more questions anytime. 0 Chris Laning | [EMAIL PROTECTED] + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
Help!! My consort and I are preparing a class about visual sources and why they should not be taken as 100% gospel when doing costuming research, and as usual once I get past about 1300 I hit a snag. :-) If you want to discourse on the changes in sleeve geometry from 1200 to 1300 in England and France, I'm your girl. Anything after that, though, and I am at a total loss. Our stated time frame is up to 1600, and we have sources up to and including 1300. However, we would also like to use examples from post 1300 as well, and that's where I come to all you later-period specialists. I have been told that there are several portraits out there, by the same artist, of different sitters, but using the same or almost the same dress. Is this in fact the case, and if so, where can I find images of these portraits? My consort tells me that there are also portraits of various male members of a family all portrayed in the same suit of armor--again, if anyone has any references I can chase down that would be incredibly helpful. And yes, I plan on using the portrait of Elizabeth in the eyes-and-ears gown as an example of symbolism. Many many many thanks, pixel/Jen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Finding information
In a message dated 2/20/2008 4:50:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The only thing I have thought of is to go to a library but than I wonder, where to begin digging deep into the collection to find original sources of info. The notes in secondary sources should send you to the primary sources, many of which you may have access to--see below. Your local university libary probably has its catalogue on-line. I, for example, live near the University of Maryland. If I find a primary source listed in a book, the first place I look is the Maryland card catalogue. It is absolutely amazing what is available there on microfilm. (Godey's Lady's Book and Peterson's magazine, for example, both great sources for the second half of the nineteenth century, should be available on microfilm--the only drawback is that they are in black and white, not color.) As was pointed out, you can usually walk in and use a university library, no questions asked. If you live near the institution from which you graduated, check on alumni privileges. Some allow members of the alumni association borrowing privileges. I splurge for the $150 Friends of the Library membership at Maryland because that also gets me inter-library loan privileges. I don't know how other state work, but, here in Maryland, if one has a public library card, one can access almost all the other libraries in the state and have books from those other libraries sent to your local one--again, you can do the hunting and the requesting on-line. This is probably not so useful for primary source material, but may help you find that sought-after out-of-print 20th century costume book. It's all about the hunt, you know--you just keep going and going. Ann Wass **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
Janet Arnold has some excellent examples of this in her book A Handbook of Costume. One really good example is on pages 22-23 where she compares 4 different portraits of Jane Seymour where, although all clearly intended to be the same outfit, there are significant differences in the details. Karen Seamstrix -- Pixel, Goddess and Queen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help!! My consort and I are preparing a class about visual sources and why they should not be taken as 100% gospel when doing costuming research, and as usual once I get past about 1300 I hit a snag. :-) If you want to discourse on the changes in sleeve geometry from 1200 to 1300 in England and France, I'm your girl. Anything after that, though, and I am at a total loss. Our stated time frame is up to 1600, and we have sources up to and including 1300. However, we would also like to use examples from post 1300 as well, and that's where I come to all you later-period specialists. I have been told that there are several portraits out there, by the same artist, of different sitters, but using the same or almost the same dress. Is this in fact the case, and if so, where can I find images of these portraits? My consort tells me that there are also portraits of various male members of a family all portrayed in the same suit of armor--again, if anyone has any references I can chase down that would be incredibly helpful. And yes, I plan on using the portrait of Elizabeth in the eyes-and-ears gown as an example of symbolism. Many many many thanks, pixel/Jen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m6eOwsIAqYrWRrLqXuOmhmvqLMh2rbl1rQQGCwH8RUTLfYs/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mari to the white courtesy phone
(answered privately) On Feb 19, 2008, at 4:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Mari Alexander on this list? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
This is not Tudor or Elizabethan, but Bronzino did at leasttwo of the same person in the same dress with different sleeves. Margaret Help!! My consort and I are preparing a class about visual sources and why they should not be taken as 100% gospel when doing costuming research, and as usual once I get past about 1300 I hit a snag. :-) If you want to discourse on the changes in sleeve geometry from 1200 to 1300 in England and France, I'm your girl. Anything after that, though, and I am at a total loss. Our stated time frame is up to 1600, and we have sources up to and including 1300. However, we would also like to use examples from post 1300 as well, and that's where I come to all you later-period specialists. I have been told that there are several portraits out there, by the same artist, of different sitters, but using the same or almost the same dress. Is this in fact the case, and if so, where can I find images of these portraits? My consort tells me that there are also portraits of various male members of a family all portrayed in the same suit of armor--again, if anyone has any references I can chase down that would be incredibly helpful. And yes, I plan on using the portrait of Elizabeth in the eyes-and-ears gown as an example of symbolism. Many many many thanks, pixel/Jen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Finding information
The notes in secondary sources should send you to the primary sources, many of which you may have access to--see below. This is probably the first best way to start out:) I also recommend finding out what Inter-library Loan (ILL) scheme your local library has. Some books you request will not be allowed out of another collection but you may just get lucky. Also google books is a marvelous place for finding transcriptions of historic texts, I just recently (re)found a few myself: http://pinkdiamond.livejournal.com/870338.html Basically I did a search for a fabric term that I knew was in use in the time I was most interested in (sadly my German specific terms don't turn up much of anything). And using other spelling variants turns up even more books:) Project Guttenburg also turns up some interesting works and there are all manner of catalogues online for similar types of searches which you can then take to your library's ILL librarian:) Regards, Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
