Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern, Now taking pre-orders!

[otsisto]

This pattern appears to be Early Tudor, pre 1550s. I had thought that the
farthingale came into play in England about the 1550s. The Spanish and some
Italian states had the farthingale in 1540s. .
Example of 1528-30
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gablehood_front-back_c1535.jpg
There doesn't seem to be a farthingale.

Anne of Brittany
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/bilimoff/images/anne-de-bretagne.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Anne_de_bretagne.jpg

Note:
Reconstructing History has a pattern for early and late Tudor
http://tinyurl.com/nnz7jo
Note the figure on the right is wearing early Tudor, similar to Margo's
pattern.

De


-Original Message-
Is there a farthingale pattern? That seems to be the only significant thing
missing, you've got all the accessories and the underwear except for a
farthingale and possibly petticoats. It doesn't seem like a complete package
without a farthingale, as you can't get the proper 1540s-50s upper class
silhouette without one.
Elizabeth

-Original Message-
By popular request, we are delighted to present our long awaited Tudor
Lady's Wardrobe pattern!

snip
Thanks,

Margo


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Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern, Now taking pre-orders!

[Elizabeth Walpole]

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Monday, 15 June 2009 6:17 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern, Now taking pre-orders!

This pattern appears to be Early Tudor, pre 1550s. I had thought that the
farthingale came into play in England about the 1550s. The Spanish and some
Italian states had the farthingale in 1540s. .
Example of 1528-30
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gablehood_front-back_c1535.jpg
There doesn't seem to be a farthingale.

Anne of Brittany
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/bilimoff/images/anne-de-bretagne.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Anne_de_bretagne.jpg

Note:
Reconstructing History has a pattern for early and late Tudor
http://tinyurl.com/nnz7jo Note the figure on the right is wearing early
Tudor, similar to Margo's pattern.

De
___
I would say this pattern covers roughly the 1520s-1550s (in England, French
fashions were slightly different) I would be hesitant to use it for the
earlier 1490s-1510s period as I suspect the bodice was quite different not
just the sleeves (the neckline definitely looks very different)
Evidence for the farthingale is clear in portraits from the 1540s (end of
Henry VIII's reign) and 1550s (Edward VI and Mary I reigns)
E.g. Catherine Parr http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/kparr.jpg (Henry
VIII's 6th wife)
Princess Elizabeth c.1545 http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/kideliz.jpg
And Queen Mary http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/blackmary.jpg
It may even have been around in the 1530s see Jane Seymour c.1536
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg (the skirt is laying very
smooth, which suggests some sort of support, but if it is a farthingale it's
quite narrow)
Like I said a farthingale is necessary for court wear of the 1540s and 1550s
Once you get into the 1560s and Elizabeth is on the throne this style of
dress largely disappears.
Elizabeth
---
Elizabeth Walpole   
Canberra, Australia 
http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/

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Re: [h-cost] Need Ruff Making Advice

[Melanie Schuessler]

Hi Penny,

That's a interesting ruff.  The setts are round on the top but  
creased on the bottom.  If you want to starch it, I have instructions  
online at


http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html

You would probably use the curling iron for the rounded top and, as I  
think someone else suggested, iron creases into the bottom.


Putting it together, if you want to starch it, is the easiest thing  
in the world.  Just gather the ruffle very tightly into the top of a  
neckband.  It fans out when you starch it to the setts at the outer  
circumference.  I would not recommend pleating of any kind if you  
intend to starch it--pleats get in the way and make life difficult.


However, if what you want is a theatrical ruff that can be laundered  
and come out still set, use the suggestions people have sent for non- 
starched options (using horsehair braid inside folded fabric for the  
ruffle, putting fishing line in the edge), and cartridge pleat.  The  
problem you'll have is that you want the ruff to be so tall that the  
height of it won't fit on the neckband.  Cartridge pleats, when done  
on a straight strip of fabric, are the same height on the inside edge  
as the outside edge.  So if you want to do cartridge pleats, you'll  
need to cut the ruffle on a curve so that it can fan out from the  
neck to the outer edge.  I've done the math to figure this out for a  
neckline ruffle, and I ended up solving a quadratic equation for two  
variables.  Maybe someone else has an easier way.


As Sharon noted, starching really isn't that hard, and in this case  
it might be much the easier way.  The only thing is that due to the  
size of the ruff you want to make, you'll need quite a lot of fabric  
gathered into the neckband.  I recommend a really lightweight  
fabric.  Also, instead of doing machine gathering, do teeny tiny itty  
bitty cartridge pleats (gauge it with two identical lines of hand- 
basting--like smocking) by hand.  The stitches will probably end up  
being 3/16-3/8" long, but you'll have to experiment to get the right  
size.  This is the method used in extant ruffs as described by Janet  
Arnold, and in my experience you can get MUCH more fabric in than  
when you do a machine-baste and pull the bobbin threads.


Good luck,
Melanie Schuessler

On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote:

A first for me, I am making a ruff.  I read the ruff advice area on  
Drea's website, but am confused if it is better to cartridge pleat  
or just gather pleats in groups.  Is there a good site with  
illustrations about how to make the ruff?


My son and I are making an anime costume http://www.geocities.com/ 
eyesofaclown/images/Perriot.JPG .  Does anyone have advice on how  
to attach the ruffles to the band.  I followed the ruff calculator  
on Drea's site and put in the measurements as follows:

ruff depth: 5 inches
width of each sett: 2 inches
ruff height: 4 inches

Will the ruff height at the band be 4 inches?  If not, how high  
will it be at the neckband?  Will it fan to 4 inches at the outer  
edge?


I am also looking for advice on starching a ruff.

Many thanks in advance.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com
11 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history
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Re: [h-cost] Need Ruff Making Advice

[AlbertCat]

 
In a message dated 6/15/2009 9:09:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
mela...@faucet.net writes:

The  setts are round on the top but  
creased on the  bottom. 


***
 
I saw that too. But I think that may just be the drawing style, because the 
 cuffs don't seem to do it.
 
And since this is a costume of an anime version of a Comedia del arte  
character, I don't know how "period" one needs to go. A more "space age" feel  
might be more appropriate with a stiff synthetic or non-fabric choice (like  
pelon) and the ol' cartridge pleated on a wide neckband construction. 
 
Now having said that, a more traditional ruff, set in an nontraditional way 
 would also be very interesting, Especially if the rest of the costume has  
some traditional elements to it.
**Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your 
fingertips. 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0004)
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[h-cost] Balloon couture

[Cin]

A friend just sent this and I know you all appreciate good design and fine
workmanship. Enjoy!
http://www.diamondjam.com/fashionshow.htm
Amazing.  I'd never seen it before.
--cin
Cynthia Barnes
cinbar...@gmail.com
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Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern, Now taking pre-orders!

[Maggie]

Margo has a farthingale, bum roll, corsets, and a couple of shifts in the
Underpinnings package.
http://www.margospatterns.com/Products/ElizUndpn.html

MaggiRos


Maggie Secara
~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603
Available at your favorite online bookseller
See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress


On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:13 AM, Elizabeth Walpole <
ewalp...@grapevine.com.au> wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
> Behalf Of otsisto
> Sent: Monday, 15 June 2009 6:17 PM
> To: Historical Costume
> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern, Now taking pre-orders!
>
> This pattern appears to be Early Tudor, pre 1550s. I had thought that the
> farthingale came into play in England about the 1550s. The Spanish and some
> Italian states had the farthingale in 1540s. .
> Example of 1528-30
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gablehood_front-back_c1535.jpg
> There doesn't seem to be a farthingale.
>
> Anne of Brittany
> http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/bilimoff/images/anne-de-bretagne.jpg
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Anne_de_bretagne.jpg
>
> Note:
> Reconstructing History has a pattern for early and late Tudor
> http://tinyurl.com/nnz7jo Note the figure on the right is wearing early
> Tudor, similar to Margo's pattern.
>
> De
> ___
> I would say this pattern covers roughly the 1520s-1550s (in England, French
> fashions were slightly different) I would be hesitant to use it for the
> earlier 1490s-1510s period as I suspect the bodice was quite different not
> just the sleeves (the neckline definitely looks very different)
> Evidence for the farthingale is clear in portraits from the 1540s (end of
> Henry VIII's reign) and 1550s (Edward VI and Mary I reigns)
> E.g. Catherine Parr 
> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/kparr.jpg(Henry
> VIII's 6th wife)
> Princess Elizabeth c.1545 
> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/kideliz.jpg
> And Queen Mary 
> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/blackmary.jpg
> It may even have been around in the 1530s see Jane Seymour c.1536
> http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg(the
>  skirt is laying very
> smooth, which suggests some sort of support, but if it is a farthingale
> it's
> quite narrow)
> Like I said a farthingale is necessary for court wear of the 1540s and
> 1550s
> Once you get into the 1560s and Elizabeth is on the throne this style of
> dress largely disappears.
> Elizabeth
> ---
> Elizabeth Walpole
> Canberra, Australia
> http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
>
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> h-costume mailing list
> h-costume@mail.indra.com
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>
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Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern, Now taking pre-orders!

[Kimiko Small]

The research I did was for the middle to almost the end of Henry VIII's reign, 
roughly from the 1520s-1545. I did not get into the specific fashions of Edward 
or Mary's reigns. While some speculated that Jane Seymour's portrait showed a 
farthingale (to me it showed a smooth front with too much hidden by sleeves to 
know for sure either way), or that Catherine of Aragon brought the Spanish 
farthingale to court, the records seemed to support that farthingales in 
England were not used by the English court until Elizabeth gets hers in 1545 as 
noted in the tailors record. Admittedly, the records are incomplete. But this 
seems to fit the general images of the time period. Henry VIII died in 1547, so 
during the majority of his reign women didn't use farthingales. Also, the style 
of sleeves seems to shift to larger, grander designs once the farthingale gains 
prominence.

As to the early part of Henry's reign, it is possible to slightly modify 
Margo's pattern to fit that part of the reign. 

For those who want to use a farthingale, Margo's Underpinnings pattern already 
has one included, and it is based on Alcega's design.

On a non-research related note but from one of my own experiences, it is my 
hope to get people away from using a farthingale at Henrician events, as it is 
a fall-back undergarment that everyone seems to wear for convenience, 
aesthetics, and for other reasons. While I don't know the specific reasons 
Margo didn't include it anyway (she could have), I hope that in not having one, 
people will come to understand that farthingales are not required under every 
Henrician gown. While this may be a given for those who already understand the 
fashions of the time period, most people don't have this basic understanding, 
at least among those I've worked with... and that included myself some time 
back.

Kimiko


--- On Sun, 6/14/09, Elizabeth Walpole  wrote:

> Is there a farthingale pattern? That
> seems to be the only significant thing
> missing, you've got all the accessories and the underwear
> except for a
> farthingale and possibly petticoats. It doesn't seem like a
> complete package
> without a farthingale, as you can't get the proper
> 1540s-50s upper class
> silhouette without one.
> Elizabeth



  
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Re: [h-cost] Tudor Lady's Wardrobe Pattern

[Margo Anderson]

On Jun 15, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Kimiko Small wrote:

 While I don't know the specific reasons Margo didn't include it  
anyway (she could have),


Mostly, it was a matter of space.  One more tissue sheet would have  
made the package too big to fit in our standard packaging or in a  
Priority Mail envelope, and I would have had to split the pattern up  
and create a separate underwear package.  Since the farthingale would  
have been virtually identical to the one in my Elizabethan  
underpinnings package, I chose to leave it out and let those who want  
to use a farthingale and/or separate corset, purchase that one.


For those who want a later Tudor look, as in the portrait of  
Elizabeth as a princess, I added a second set of cutting lines to the  
bodice so that it can be made with a pointed waist, and made sure  
that the skirt was full enough to accommodate a farthingale.


Margo
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[h-cost] Black beads Princess Elizabeth image

[Becky Rautine]

After all the discussion about the black beads in other portraits, I see the 
black squares in the Princess ELizabeth portrait as the black with a white spot 
like someone said. Could these be diamonds instead of onyx or some other black 
stones?The pearls are black here, but maybe the others are.
 One site that reproduces Renaissance jewelry has this as a white diamond 
instead of the black square on the necklace part. I'm making this complete 
outfit for my daughter. Are these suppose to be white diamonds instead of the 
black squares? I never thought about it until the recent eye-opening research 
on black pearls in paintings.

Sincerely,
Rebecca Rautine


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[h-cost] FW: Black beads Princess Elizabeth image

[Becky Rautine]

Along this same line how does the girdle end? It doesn't show in the 
portraits I have seen.. I never noticed it wasn't shown in the images before.
I made the little urn shapes, the beads and all the part that hangs
down in front. I haven't gotten to the pearls yet, but they are sorted
and waiting... what is the concensus of how it should end???
Sincerely,
Rebecca Rautine



From: zearti...@hotmail.com
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Black beads Princess Elizabeth image
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:28:28 -0400








After all the discussion about the black beads in other portraits, I see the 
black squares in the Princess ELizabeth portrait as the black with a white spot 
like someone said. Could these be diamonds instead of onyx or some other black 
stones?The pearls are black here, but maybe the others are.
 One site that reproduces Renaissance jewelry has this as a white diamond 
instead of the black square on the necklace part. I'm making this complete 
outfit for my daughter. Are these suppose to be white diamonds instead of the 
black squares? I never thought about it until the recent eye-opening research 
on black pearls in paintings.

Sincerely,
Rebecca Rautine


Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.  See how.
_
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[h-cost] Question about a portrait

[Becky Rautine]

This is a portrait I haven't seen before... of Lady Jane Grey.
http://www.bitterwisdom.com/ladyjanegrey/life/panel-2-lady-jane-grey.jpg
I found this and like the doublet style. Can anyone tell me what the white 
things are on the shoulders? What can you tell me about the making of this gown?
Sincerely,
Rebecca Rautine



> From: zearti...@hotmail.com
> To: h-cost...@indra.com
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:31:00 -0400
> Subject: [h-cost] FW: Black beads Princess Elizabeth image
> 
> 
> Along this same line how does the girdle end? It doesn't show in the 
> portraits I have seen.. I never noticed it wasn't shown in the images before.
> I made the little urn shapes, the beads and all the part that hangs
> down in front. I haven't gotten to the pearls yet, but they are sorted
> and waiting... what is the concensus of how it should end???
> Sincerely,
> Rebecca Rautine
> 
> 
> 
> From: zearti...@hotmail.com
> To: h-cost...@indra.com
> Subject: Black beads Princess Elizabeth image
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:28:28 -0400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After all the discussion about the black beads in other portraits, I see the 
> black squares in the Princess ELizabeth portrait as the black with a white 
> spot like someone said. Could these be diamonds instead of onyx or some other 
> black stones?The pearls are black here, but maybe the others are.
>  One site that reproduces Renaissance jewelry has this as a white diamond 
> instead of the black square on the necklace part. I'm making this complete 
> outfit for my daughter. Are these suppose to be white diamonds instead of the 
> black squares? I never thought about it until the recent eye-opening research 
> on black pearls in paintings.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Rebecca Rautine
> 
> 
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.  See how.
> _
> Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com
> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume

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Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait

[Kimiko Small]

Hi Rebecca,

First of all, it looks to be a later image, meaning a painting not done during 
her lifetime. Most likely this is a Victorian image or even more modern, I 
don't know for sure. But the background looks familiar. I think we talked about 
a similar painting here before.

The doublet as you've named it is her bodice, most likely square necked with a 
partlet over the top of it; in this case with a standing collar in what is 
modernly called "medici" style. It is odd that the bottom of the bodice is 
black, when the rest of the gown is not black. This tells me that the artist 
didn't really understand Tudor fashions. Usually, if any part of the gown were 
to contrast, it would be the partlet worn over the upper half of the chest, 
along with the foresleeves and forepart (the decorative parts of the kirtle). 
The whole gown usually is of one fabric.

As to the white things on her shoulder... I would say it is a linen rail; a 
large linen square being worn much like a shawl, but how it is only on the 
sleeves... maybe pinned?. I have an image showing a similarly worn rail that is 
contemporary.
http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/TudorWomen/1530/MargaretPole.html

hth,

Kimiko


--- On Mon, 6/15/09, Becky Rautine  wrote:
> This is a portrait I haven't seen before... of Lady Jane
> Grey.
> http://www.bitterwisdom.com/ladyjanegrey/life/panel-2-lady-jane-grey.jpg
> I found this and like the doublet style. Can anyone tell me
> what the white things are on the shoulders? What can you
> tell me about the making of this gown?
> Sincerely,
> Rebecca Rautine



  
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