Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric

[Bonnie Booker]

These only go back to the 18th c. I'm sure they were using something
similar earlier. I wasn't thinking pinking, but slashing, straight cuts.


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:01 AM, Kate Bunting 
wrote:

> Julie wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the responses. I knew the slashings could be done so they
> >wouldn't fray. I guess the part I was really surprised by was saying that
> >they slashed the clothing that was too small so it could be worn. I don' t
> >know if that's just an origin story or what, but the Landsknect clothing
> >I've seen was beautifully slashed in decorative ways and not in ways to
> >make it larger.
>
> Surely, to get into garments that are too small you would need to cut the
> armholes, waistband etc, not just stretch the body of the fabric? I'd vote
> for the "conspicuous consumption" theory.
>
> BTW, the spelling is KNECHT (related to the English word "knight" which
> originally meant a manservant, then a military follower).
>
> Kate Bunting
> Retired librarian & 17th century reenactor
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Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric

[Bonnie Booker]

I don't know that much about Lanskneckt, I'm more into women's fashions.
However, I do know they would also do a buttonhole stitch around the edges
to accent it more in other places in Europe. Sometimes there may be a
lining they would sew the slashes to. Remember, they hand sewed everything.
As far as a chisel for cutting, a blade works better and is easier. I would
think this is what they would use.


On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Magge Genie  wrote:

> When you look at the Lanskneckt research out there, much of it looks like
> a uniform. That leg short with an optional legging, that one to the knee
> and a long sock tied at the knee. One of the soldiers was an artist,
> sketching his comrades, and recorded the consistency of the clothing. The
> higher rank you achieved, the better and more fancy the uniform. I don't
> always recommend Osprey, but the reproductions of the drawings in the
> Lanskneckt sp? Book are really cool.
>
> Genie
>
> > On Jul 22, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Julie  wrote:
> >
> > I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on
> > this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth?
> >
> > " I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the
> > decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not
> earlier.
> > It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing
> > of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these
> > were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes
> so
> > that they could still wear them.  (look up "landschkinects") This was of
> > course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't
> > disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices.  And the
> > fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were
> > definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were
> > some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the
> frayed
> > edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving
> (like
> > velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the
> tailors
> > to do the cutting with."
> >
> > Thanks for your wisdom
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM,  wrote:
> >>
> >> Send h-costume mailing list submissions to
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> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>   1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com)
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT)
> >> From: cc2010m...@cs.com
> >> To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> >> Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale
> >> Message-ID: <8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I
> am
> >> asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon.
> >>Henry Osier
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >> End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62
> >> *
> >>
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Re: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question

[Bonnie Booker]

Janet Arnold shows the edges all being whipped down around the edges. Then
they were joined by either being whipped together or faggoting.


On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Wicked Frau  wrote:

> This what the Tudor Tailor (TT) has to say about shirts/smocks finishing:
>  "The fact that shirts and smocks were intended to survive regular washing
> is evident in the construction of extant examples.  The stitches are very
> regular and tiny, often so small as to be invisible to the naked eye.  The
> strength of the selvedges was exploited in the long seams down the sides
> which were butted together.  Seams made along a cut edge have the raw part
> carefully folded under and enclosed with another row of stitching."
>
> A number of years ago I picked up a man's shirt at a yard sale in Germany.
>  I took it to the Dennita Sewell, the fashion curator at the Phoenix Art
> Museum with the idea of donating it to the museum (they were very happy to
> add it to their collection).  She said it was probably 19th century, but
> certainly constructed just like they had been in the 16th and 17th
> centuries.  As stated in the TT the long side seams are butted with an
> overcast on the inside.  The cut portions are sewn and then folded over.
>  The folded over seams are hardly bigger than an 1/8 ".  There is a lot of
> entredeux work on the cuffs, and drawn work on the neck opening.
>
> The straight top stitching is so tiny and perfect that it is really hard to
> imagine it was not done by machine, but as the rest of it is clearly hand
> sewn, I think it is as well.
>
> I have yet to actually turn this garment over to the Museum.  I intend to
> photograph it carefully and post pictures before I do give it to them.  I
> will post pictures as soon as I have done this.
>
> Saragrace
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Ginni Morgan  >wrote:
>
> > I think Arnold covered this in Patterns of Fashion, but I could be wrong.
> >  I'm at work and all my costume books are packed up anyway.  My guess is
> a
> > small rolled hem on any cut edge.  The openwork stitching that attached
> one
> > piece of cloth to another needs something to anchor it that won't fray
> > apart under strain.  It is my understanding that the garments were often
> > taken apart for washing and sunbleaching.  Thus each piece would need to
> be
> > finished.
> >
> > Ginni
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Liz H.
> > Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 9:55 AM
> > To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > Subject: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question
> >
> > I'm sure sometime has answered this sometime over the years, but I can't
> > seen to find it...
> >
> > In the 1480-1600 period of time, does anyone know how the edges of the
> > cloth, or seams of under-tunics/shifts/shirts/chemises would have been
> > finished?  I figure that as they would have been the most often washed
> > garment, something would have been done to help prevent the edges of the
> > cloth from unraveling...but I haven't been able to figure out what,
> during
> > that period of time.
> >
> > (Me, I either zigzag or whip-stitch the edges usually...but I'm wondering
> > what would have been done *then*)
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -Elisabeth/Liz
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> or
> > disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the
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Re: [h-cost] Fwd: 1/2 scale design challenge, any period, "Fashion Icons through the Ages"

[Bonnie Booker]

I don't understand. I can see using a half-scale for design, but don't you
need a full scale to make it fit right?


On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Wicked Frau  wrote:

> Great opportunity for us Historical types to show off what we can do!
>
> I saw this in my Threads Magazine.  It looks like a lot of fun!   Very good
> deal too.
>
> "Participants purchase the competition kit ($99), which includes a
> professional half-scale dress form and access to four high-definition
> online video lessons presented by Joi. The lessons are 20- to
> 35-minute-long tutorials on the design process, fashion sketching, draping,
> and submitting challenge entries. A downloadable croquis and complete
> half-scale sloper set are provided. Videos are available for viewing at any
> time after receiving the access code. The entry fee covers the cost of the
> half-scale form and its shipping."
>
>
> https://www.threadsmagazine.com/item/36531/half-scale-design-competition-for-ase-2014
>
> NOTE:  The link to the contest entry form from the threads page does not
> work,  Use this one or click on the "contest" button on the menu.
>
> http://www.americansewingexpo.com/Contests.html<
> http://www.americansewingexpo.com/Contests.htmla>
> --
> -Sg-
>
>
>
> --
> -Sg-
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Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians

[Bonnie Booker]

Corsets weren't worn in early Tudor times. I research 1490 give or take 20
years.


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Carol Kocian  wrote:

>
> On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:15 AM, michaeljdeib...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Elastic panels could help bit perhaps adapting the style would be better.
>> A mesh or sports corset might provide enough give while also providing
>> enough support for the period.
>>
>
> The problem there, though, is that the gown worn over a corset does not
> have any give to it. The corset creates a smooth line for the gown to fit.
> If the corset stretches, the gown would also need a stretch section or a
> pleat to handle it. Is there a 19thC version of a Watteau back for a gown?
>
> -Carol
>
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing today?

[Bonnie Booker]

Suzie is wearing a sheer undergown in pink and brown on white. Over this
goes a brown and gold 16th c. Italian with natural waistline and hanging
sleeves lined with a brownish-gold. Promised to a friend.



On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:53 AM,  wrote:

> One of them is about to be dressed splendidly in an 1895 two-piece indigo
> velvet dress with cream lace decoration that I  bought at an auction in
> July.  Another is dressed in a gorgeous 1887 black dressof heavy satin,
> with a bustle and incredible beadwork on the collar, bodice and cuffs.
> The third iswearingwhat will be my costume for the Haunt I'll be
> performing at: a Redneck Zombie Grandma, with a zombie squirrel on my
> shoulder (the squirrel has to have the attachments made so it will stay
> solidly attached to me).
>
> Yours in costumign, Lisa Ashton
>
> AKA Miss Lizzy, Miss Lizzy's Traveling Historical Fashion Show
>
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Re: [h-cost] "Medieval brides wore red."

[Bonnie Booker]

I have read that Rom wear red skirts only on their wedding day. Scarlet was
an expensive fabric, not necessarily red. That causes a lot of confusion.
My studies show they wore their best outfit, no matter the color.
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Re: [h-cost] historical costume books

[Bonnie Booker]

Right now I can send you by pay pal $150 for the Late Gothic Period book
and the lesser Elizabeth unlocked. I can use paypal. I'm in Florida.

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Re: [h-cost] Question on Court Fashion in 1500

[Bonnie Booker]

You might check out the Hispanic Costume book, as Juana la Loca (oldest
daughter of Isabella) was married to the Magnificent Max. The styles they
wore were very similiar.
Aspasia

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Sharon Henderson  wrote:

> Good evening all,
>
> In the SCA, my kingdom 12th Night for this season has a theme of the
> Court of Maximilian, Holy Roman Emperor, basically a Night in Vienna
> in 1500.  1500 is such an interesting year.  :)  I've looked at a lot
> of images lately.  Seriously a transitional time for noble clothing.
> I've seen some things clearly based on Burgundian high-waisted gowns
> and some that look like early Tudor (Elizabeth of York, Katherine of
> Aragon, who was after all related to the Emperor).  There have
> even been some images that show Maximilian and his lady in older-style
> clothing: for example, the Empress in one of those drop-waisted gowns
> that have the massively voluminous skirts and the almost shield-shaped
> upper parts over a cotehardie-style under-gown.  I don't think I'll go
> that latter route, but here's what I'm thinking.
>
> I have Reconstructing History's Cranach gown pattern (1506-1520s,
> basically), as well as their under-kirtle and gown for the pre-Tudor
> 1490s.  In the case of the former, it might be possible to work
> backward toward creating an earlier form of that--much as if the
> fashion was just starting and some lady wanted to be completely,
> daringly au fait and wear it to Court for 12th Night.  In the latter
> case, it might be possible to start with the 1490s look and postulate
> forward to the vague era between the two fashion periods.  Headgear
> could be anything from a truncated Burgundian cone over a transitional
> hood (seen this a lot in the images) or just a hood by itself with a
> brooch pinned to the fold-back... or... what?  Were those fascinating
> linen German headdresses worn to Court-level functions?  So many
> questions!!  So!
>
> If you were able to go back in time and visit Maximilian's court in
> January of 1500 and wanted to fit in, would you start with the Cranach
> and try to work backward in fashion?  Or would you start with the
> pre-1490s set and work forward?  And what would you do for hair/hat
> styling?  I figure if I start now, I have half a hope of actually
> finishing something  :)
>
> Cheers,
> Meli
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Re: [h-cost] Fashion/costume wall calendars for 2012

[Bonnie Booker]

Still no fashions pre-1600?

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Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh

[Bonnie Booker]

Did you see the write-up on one of the Maria books?
" Maria is the daughter of a robber baron who marries an ambitious young
Norman knight."
Why would the Baron marry a Knight? LOL
The little things bother me too. The author should have approval of the
blurbs too.

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Re: [h-cost] a question about passementerie

[Bonnie Booker]

I use gold cord and braid as I go. This way I can easily pul the ends to the
wrong side, like couching. I can also make it as wide or narrow as I want.
When I do use braid I glue the ends and begin and end at a seam if I can. If
not, I turn the ends under itself and sew them down.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Catherine Kinsey  wrote:

> My question is, what should I do, in future, to finish the ends of the
> braid so that they do not unravel? This first construction used Elmer's
> glue (it was what was to hand) and that is obviously the wrong answer if
> one ever plans on washing the garment.
>
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Re: [h-cost] Linen for dyeing

[Bonnie Booker]

You order them on line. They are free. You can order up to 5. Click the
symbol  next to the picture.


> Is there any linen there you'd especially recommend?  I've asked them about
> swatches but they have not replied.
> *8
> --
>
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Re: [h-cost] Hair styles

[Bonnie Booker]

Thanks. My hair is long enough to sit on and I'm not good with hair. I
appreciate the good "how tos" to try to do something besides a braid or
ponytail.


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Re: [h-cost] coifs

[Bonnie Booker]

That's the way I read it. Thanx

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Kimiko Small  wrote:

> No, don't change your notes. It is only listed on my web site, to show what
> a coif that may have been worn under a French hood might look like. It is
> most likely 15th century as the artist died in 1502.
>
> Kimiko
>
>
> On May 24, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Bonnie Booker wrote:
>
> > That's the one. Guess I'll have to change my notes to 16th c. Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Kimiko Small 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Do you mean this image?
> >>
> >>
> http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/earlyforms/OctavienIllustration.html
> >>
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] coifs

[Bonnie Booker]

That's the one. Guess I'll have to change my notes to 16th c. Thanks.



On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Kimiko Small  wrote:

> Do you mean this image?
>
> http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/earlyforms/OctavienIllustration.html
>
> Kimiko
>
>
> On May 24, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Bonnie Booker wrote:
>
> > I have a book (somewhere...I just moved) that shows a girl wearing an
> > emboidered or brocade coif in the 15th century. It is an *Illustration by
> > Octavien de Saint-Gelias. 1468-1502.
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] coifs

[Bonnie Booker]

I have a book (somewhere...I just moved) that shows a girl wearing an
emboidered or brocade coif in the 15th century. It is an *Illustration by
Octavien de Saint-Gelias. 1468-1502. It wouldn't copy and paste, but you
might google it. I could find only plain ones earlier. However, they would
often wear hats over embroidered coifs as well in later period.*

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Re: [h-cost] Looking for more information on a portrait of Henry VIII

[Bonnie Booker]

>
>  Hi everyone,
>>
>> I was looking at portraits of Henry VIII today and found this portrait I
>> hadn't seen before
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/60861613@N00/3711035063/sizes/o/in/set-72157617185980487/
>> It looks to be a copy of the famous Holbein portrait but with very little
>> decoration (as my embroidery skills are not up to much it seems much more
>> feasible)
>> So, my question is does anybody know of a larger version of this image or
>> more details (e.g. artist or collection) so I can narrow my search.
>>
>> You could look for a brocade that looks right for that period and cut it
in strips for the embroidery...

>
>>
> *Maitresse Aspasia *
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Re: [h-cost] Wool supplier?

[Bonnie Booker]

You might check out gypsycaravan.com they import wool on an irregular basis.
Being a co-op it us cheaper depending on how many orders. They are working
on an order now. Most of theirs is from England or Scotland. I like their
wool melton.

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Re: [h-cost] Textiles in the fifteenth century

[Bonnie Booker]

I believe there is an article in one of the books of the series Robin
Netherton writes for. I don't remember which one.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Linda Walton
 wrote:
> Please, can anyone recommend to me a really reliable source for information
> about the sorts of textiles, especially silk, being used in England in the
> fifteenth century?
>
> Any suggestions, and any comments about books you know, (both good and bad
> ones), will be greatly appreciated by
> Linda Walton.
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Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600

[Bonnie Booker]

>
> For that same shirt project, now that I have woken up and recognized the
> many resources already present in my studio, I'm hung up on fabric.  Well,
> not really hung up as I can certainly use 100% linen and end up with a
> reasonably period shirt.  But the shirt that he already has is 100% cotton -
> I know - not period - but very comfy and again, he likes it.
>
Cotton not period? Sure it is. I know it was used in Spain and Itialy
in the Rennaisance (Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 by Ruth Matilda
Anderson p.183 worn by Empress Isabel) and Germany, where it was also
mixed with linen. Muslin (aka calico in Europe) is ideal.
-- 
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Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern

[Bonnie Booker]

Will look for it. Next week I should have my notebooks of
documentation unpacked. It will be in it.
Aspasia

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Franchesca  wrote:
> Try
> http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/search-old.cgi?s=drawstring+shift+&l=hcos06
>
> I did not see the URL there but if you find it post it here!
>
> Franchesca
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-
>> boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bonnie Booker
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:24 AM
>> To: Historical Costume
>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern
>>
>> > We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and the
>> consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn gathers round
>> the neck and wrists.
>> >
>> > I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on the
> 17th
>> century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed the above
>> statement.
>> --
>> There was a drawstring shift found in Scandinavia from either the 14th or
>> 15th century. It was from an archelogical dig there. I don't have all my
> books
>> with me right now, but I ran off a copy. I think it might have been on the
>> Historical Costume List.. I should have bookmarked it.
>>
>> Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern

[Bonnie Booker]

> We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and the 
> consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn gathers round 
> the neck and wrists.
>
> I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on the 17th 
> century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed the above 
> statement.
-- 
There was a drawstring shift found in Scandinavia from either the 14th
or 15th century. It was from an archelogical dig there. I don't have
all my books with me right now, but I ran off a copy. I think it might
have been on the Historical Costume List.. I should have bookmarked
it.

Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] A question on sewing fur

[Bonnie Booker]

No, fabric has more give than skins. Direct skin to  skin would wear
holes and make the seam give. This way you can remove it for washing
too.

On 3/13/10, AVCHASE  wrote:
> What I was taught as a child: use a fine leather needle and a waxed thread
> when sewing fur by hand.
> I lay fake fur in the carport and chalk the pattern on the reverse then cut
> only the fabric, being careful to cut as little fur as possible.
>
> Audy
>
> in the high boonies of Central Texas
>
> 
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
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Re: [h-cost] A question on sewing fur

[Bonnie Booker]

> Does anyone have any good resources on how to sew fur? I am trying to work
> up a class on fur in historical costuming and although I have found a few
> books that cover the topic but they get mixed reviews.
>
-- 
One of my Apprentices is a taxidermist and furrier. She says not to
sew skin to skin as it will eventally give way. Attach it to bias tape
or cloth strips, then sew them together. This way the fur stays
undamaged and you can remove it from costume when it needs washing.
She also draws the pattern on the underside and cuts with a blade.

Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] Tag Lines and Spanish/Portugese Undergarments

[Bonnie Booker]

Try The Hispanic Costume Book 1480-1530 by Ruth Matilda Andewrson.
They have a whole section with pictures.



> If anyone about has any information on what the Spanish and/or Portugese
> called the Smock/Camisia/Chemise I would dearly love to know!
>
>

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Re: [h-cost] Help!

[Bonnie Booker]

The easiest way for me is to use a yardstick. Copy the pattern piece,
cut it out and attach to a corner of a newspaper. Measure in cm. then
multiply by 8 or by 4, whichever scale it is. Draw a straight line
from that point on the pattern to where the measure ends, lining it up
with the corner of the paper. Hit the main points, where the pattern
turns, where there is a curve, etc. You will need scotch tape to
fasten on more newspapers. Then I use this pattern to make adjustments
as needed, then use the pattern to cut it out of an old sheet or some
such. I can then baste it together and see if more adjustments are
needed. Do them and use the sheet as a pattern.

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Re: [h-cost] Italian sleeve question

[Bonnie Booker]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:47 PM, otsisto  wrote:
> The caps the cuffs and bodice look more like a part of the fabric then
> embroidery. The bodice, if you enlarge the pictures appears to be pleated.
> http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CARIANISeduction.JPG
> http://tinyurl.com/8q48hy
>
> There are other paintings that have pleated or gathered fronts.
> ex:
> http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LadyParapet.jpg
> http://tinyurl.com/8gepo9
>
> Perhaps brocade is not the correct term. What I am saying is that the fabric
> may have had a design woven on one of the selvage ends (similar to some sari
> fabrics), including the "yellow" band and the seamstress may have made use
> of it by cutting the fabric and sewing it so that the design would end up at
> the cuffs, bodice and caps. The band seen is to big for a simple running
> stitch.

That may be. I have also seen yarn threads ran along pieces for the
same effect.
The second picture looks to me to be gathered and the cloth sewn down
on top. This was very common in Italy in the 15th c. as it was for
chemises. The reason I thought the chemise in the first one may have
been smocked was the way the gathers lay flat against the design and
didn't seem to have line for a break. Of course it could be the Artist
interpretation. None of us could be sure without a time machine.
Smocking was used in Germany and Italy in the 15th c. and occasionally
in France and Spain.


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Re: [h-cost] extra RE: Italian sleeve question

[Bonnie Booker]

> I don't think that it is embroidery but a similar colored brocade or a
> fabric that had an edge that had a gold thread design interwoven. this would
> make sense with the two part sleeve and that the bodice looks to be pleated
> as well to match the cuff ruffle and the sleeve cap.
> Side note: She seems to be wearing a shift under her camicia.
*>

The chemise looks like it is smocked to me. The tiny pleats and near
same color embroidery would match.
 Is that a necklace underneath or a sheer partlet?
 As for the sleeves, it looks like embroidery to me. Much of what we
think is brocade from period was actually embroidered, not woven.
Expecially if it had coat of arms on it. I see running stitches across
the sleeves, caps, and wrist ruffles, but not the bodice itself. It
looks to me like a contrast piece for the upper bodice and sleeve tops
with a stitch to bring the sleeve tops and the caps together visually

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Re: [h-cost] celtic embroidery design

[Bonnie Booker]

You are looking at couching. You just take 3 cords and lay them down
and cross them at matched interrvals. Pin them at where they cross and
couch them down. This looks like a silver cord, but it could be done
with any color. It is one of the easiest kinds of knotwork to do. It
can be done in cross stictch and is in a lot of cross stitch books
that have knotwork.
Good luck.

*(* Aspasia


>
> I've already spent ages looking for one very simple celtic knotwork 
> embroidery pattern (.hus, .pes and other embroidery formats), and this list 
> is probably my last chance. Does anyone by accident know where to purchase 
> this style of endless embroidery?
> http://www.rivendellbridal.com/files/celticstarbackcloce.jpg
>
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Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help

[Bonnie Booker]

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lynn Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I usually just lurk on this list and occasionally ask questions or respond.  
> My question is when making a dress like this one with a close front bodice, 
> where do you put the lacing?  I've read if it's english that it goes in the 
> back, but haven't been able to confirm or deny this.  Also, if you were doing 
> a spanish one, where would the lacing go?  Did they always use lacing in this 
> period or did they also use hookand eye, and if so where did they use 
> it.Lllynn
>
Juan de Alcega was printed in a later period, however the styles
seemed not to move much in Spain after the beginning of the 15th c.
There were many different styles, they were the leaders at the time.
The Hispanic Costume Book shows where they fasten up with an open
front, closed laced front, back  and side closures. I can't see what
kind of closures.
Yes, many of them with the over "robe" and high waist look like they
could be pregnant, even the children. What a good coverup.

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Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help

[Bonnie Booker]

> least one figure in the Herod scene has a close front bodice and if
> you haven't already started the bodice that might be a way to go.
> http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/o/ordonez/d_felipe.html
> http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/lazarus2.html
> http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/herodias.html
> http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b/borgona/ladyhare.html
> http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gallego/catholic.html
> Those are examples from 1490-1515 with the closed front and no hoops.
> I think the bust portrait you have (also on WGA and by Juan de
> Flandres) is of a no hooped sort too.
>

Thanks for the help. What really caught my eye was the portrait of
Juana la Loca. I looked for a bodice in the 1490s that carried out
that theme. I have the kirtle underneath. The bodice is cut out and
the eyes bought for the laces. I have a lot of embroidery throughout.
I have most of my good gowns with closed bodices, lacing in the back,
side, front. I wanted something I had nothing of for some special silk
a friend brought me back from China. I have had to study completely
new cuts and ideas for this. I love the ideas.
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Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help

[Bonnie Booker]

Thanks. That was what I was thinking, but I wanted confirmation. You
can see what I'm working on at www.myspace/1aspasia.com It isn't one
dress, but a combination. I'm in a wheel chair and can't do hoops. It
has been a while since I have updated, but just my running thoughts
and pictures and documentation as I go.


> On an educated guess, since you didn't post an image you are working from, 
> but I am thinking the skirt also opens in front, as a slit down from the 
> laced opening a short ways, just enough to help you get the dress over the 
> head.
>
> That is what I will be doing with my 1500s working dress I am working on.

>


>> I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm
>> getting ready to attach
>> the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front.
>> It is open
>> like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me
>> how the
>> skirt opens?
>>>
>
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[h-cost] 1490s Spanish help

[Bonnie Booker]

I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm getting ready to attach
the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front. It is open
like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me how the
skirt opens?

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Re: [h-cost] crochet 18th C

[Bonnie Booker]

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Lynn Downward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wow, that  looks exactly like a mesh crochet stitch. I saw a lot of it when
> I used it for the sleeves of the Irish lace over-tunic of my wedding dress.
> I would never have thought of it for something that early. Are we agreeing
> that since it's basically a chain stitch attached here and there, it's more
> than possible that this is really what we're looking at this early in the
> history of crochet?

> >
> >> >
> > http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/Dress_Robe_a_la_Fran_aise/ViewObject.aspx?depNm=the_costume_institute&pID=1&kWd=&OID=80001010&vW=0&Pg=1&St=5&StOd=1&vT=2
> >
> > You can zoom in,it is very unusual trim, not what everyone thinks of
> > as trim from that period.  very interesting.  I wish the zoom was a
> > bit more closeup!  There's a detail in the book of the fly fringe.


> > > When tomorrow it is lighter, i shall photograph the dress from the book
> > and
> > >  post it for you all to see. It looks authentic to me!
> > >
> > >  Bjarne
> > >
I think you are right. There has been mention from 15th c. of Queen
Elizabeth's favorite cauls being made of chains. Could this have been
done the same? There were "crochets and hooks" counted in Queen Mary's
belongings when she returned to the court of Henry VIII. Then there is
a cope in a Spanish museum they say is trimmed in corochet. It seems
strange these things keep popping up but everyone says crochet didn't
exist until the 19th century. Maybe it just wasn't the fad until then.

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[h-cost] lacing holes

[Bonnie Booker]

I wasn't sure if it was this list that was discussin lacing holes, or
the garb list, so I'll send to both.
TEXTILES AND CLOTHING 1150-1450 put out by Musium of London in 1992 on
p. 164 has extent textiles from the 14th century showing lacing holes
done with a buttonhole stitch with the bead in the hole. The did a
wide spaced stitch around it, then filled it in with close spaced
stitches.
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Re: [h-cost] Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe

[Bonnie Booker]

On Dec 26, 2007 12:13 PM, Ruth Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Unless Wicked Frau has access to one of the very rare original copies of
> Alcega, surely there's a copyright issue involved here.
>Certainly in most of Europe, and I assume in the USA too, there is no
> right to offer and distribute copyright material freely to others without
> permission, even if supplied without charge. We have not authorised any
> display of Alcega patterns on line either.
>

I have a copy of the original copied from microfilm, complete with
waterspots. Unfortunately I loaned it to a friend who hasn't returned
it yet. She says she will have it back within a week, if the mail
allows. We will see.
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Re: [h-cost] Underwear

[Bonnie Booker]

On 9/14/07, Tori Ruhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I understand the "there is no evidence one way or the other" about women 
> wearing underpants in pre-16th century Europe.
> but what about during their menses?

They wore them in 15th c. Spain per The Hispanic Costume Book
1480-1530. They adopted them from the Moors sarawil and were made of
linen and were tied with a drawstring around the waist. They reached
to just below the knee where they met the stockings.
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Re: [h-cost] Walmart cloth...good news/bad news...

[Bonnie Booker]

The little one in Dade City, Florida is keeping theirs. Good thing
too, it's 50 miles to the closest JoAnns!  However, many others in the
state closed their out.
**
> >I was in our Norfolk, Va. Walmart last week, and also noticed that the
> >$1.00 bolt table was restocked. I found my favorite sales lady and she
> >said that indeed, they were keeping their fabric department and were
> >replacing the racks that had been removed! YIPPPE!
> >She said that everything was planned to go back to the way it used to
> >be.
> >--
**
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[h-cost] Embroidered cuff

[Bonnie Booker]

have a question regarding Blackwork.  How do you embroider on a cuff?
If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the
best wa y to do it?  Lynn

Embroidering a cuff depends on what kind of cuff you are doing. As we
were talking about Blackwork I presume you are talking about counted
patterns.  I measure the wrist and add an inch. Then I decide how wide
I want the cuff, usually about 2 ". I draw this with a pencil on
linen, careful to follow the line of the thread of the linen. If it is
hard to see, I draw a thread, measure 2" then draw another thread.
This way I know it is straight.

I count the pattern and divide be the number of threads. If the design
is 10 spaces high, for example, and I want to fill 1" which is say 49
threads I round it off to 5 threads per stitch. It will come out
slightly larger than 1", but works. This is ONLY for ADVANCED
embroiders.

However, for a beginner, I would say use the waste canvas you can get
at most hobby stores. They are much easier to work with. You baste
them over the area as a guide. Work the design. You can also do a
sleeve without a cuff this way.

I then cut out the cuff and proceed as usual. For a collar I do the
same, draw in pencil, embroider, then cut out. I work then on scrap
linen and run water soluable (school glue) around the edges so it
doesn't unravel. For a sleeve without a cuff, I finish the sleeve
first if there is it is large enough. If not, I at least sew down far
enough to make sure the design matches up.

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Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery

[Bonnie Booker]

That would be another string altogether. "Let's try embroidered cuff."

On 5/6/07, Lynn Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have a question regarding Blackwork.  How do you embroider on a cuff?  If you 
make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? 
 Lynn

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Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery

[Bonnie Booker]

Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci
Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few
years ago. It is more correctly known as "monochrome embroidery" and
was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her
collar with blackwork inside and outside. It was also sited in Viking
Embroidery. There technically are no limits to stitches used. However,
what most people think of is the 16th century designs made popular by
the Holbein paintings, therefore the Hobein stitch.

To see if something could have been done doublesided take graph paper
and follow the design with a pencil. If you can do it, even with
drawing back over the design with the pencil without lifting the
pencil off the paper it can be done double sided. Look for designs on
artifacts that can be done this way. Then check with the museums to
see if they can tell you if it is done that way. That is the best I
can offer you. I work mostly with duplicating designs.


I am not an embroiderer, and my knowledge of medeival embroidery is
skeletal -- enough to recognize situations in which it occurs, and to know
when to go to others with a question.

This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's
working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation
of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on
both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like
something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished
looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things like
cuff and collar edges that might be turned out.

So, questions:

1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork?
Or any other kind of historic embroidery style?



Of one kind of border designs usually used on undergarments and tunic edges.



2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern
examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a
technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in
different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in
particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about
1400.



Many, with many different stitches, in many different countries,
including Persia.



3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use
of such a "two right sides" technique to a medieval artifact?


Not "two right sides" but the back side looks as good as the front.



Ultimately my friend would like to have a citation that shows the use of
such inside/outside embroidery from around 1400. Doesn't have to be
blackwork.

Failing that, it would be helpful to have a citation of such a technique
from a later period, even if it's not c. 1400.

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[h-cost] chemise styles

[Bonnie Booker]

I am looking through Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 and it keeps
mentioning chemises in "the Spanish style: or in "the French style" or
in "the German style."  I see all kinds of necklines. Can anyone tell
me the difference?
Thank you.
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Re: [h-cost] Messages history

[Bonnie Booker]

Thank you everyone.

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[h-cost] Messages history

[Bonnie Booker]

Is there any way to get message history. There are some things I know
were discussed in the past and I would like to look at them again
without hashing it all out over again.

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Re: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site

[Bonnie Booker]

Definately! Thank you.  15th c. personna, embroiderer


>Thought this might interest you.
>
>http://medieval.webcon.net.au/period_15th_c.html


Sorry - meant for a private message but what the heck - it may
interest some of you too.


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Re: [h-cost] Re: History of measuring tools + seeking a replica set of scales

[Bonnie Booker]

Try http://www.preciousplunder.com. He does jewelry, but he has done
working scales for years. He says it is something any good viking
should have.  After all, our household is known as The House of
Shining Scales. Tell him I sent you and the price should be good.

 Something with a price tag that wouldn't call for me to take-out a
second Mortgage to afford to buy the scales, would be nice?

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Re: [h-cost] in search of a lost person

[Bonnie Booker]

On 5/25/06, Sue Clemenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I was laureled back when Artemisia was still a fairly young principality
in
Atenveldt, and with one (very inactive) exception, am actually the
"oldest"
laurel in the whole state of Montana.



I got mine at 3:00 in the morning.  We had one of those forever courts
Trimaris used to have. I think they now have a cut-off time. Half the court
left to party.  The other half had gone to bed. Only a few strays were left,
so it was low keyed. The Laurel Circle in Trimaris (Florida) was very small
then, around a dozen I think, and a fairly new kingdom. No one else did it,
or even researched it. I did the Jane Seymour sleeves with a magnifying
glass and graph paper. We had no Internet, only books to go by.  I was a
librarian at the time, so that was handy. Love that ILL too.
My "masterwork piece" was a linen coif done in silk, Blackwork touched with
gold, that I gave my Laurel. Duchess Elspeth is Elizabethan, I'm 15th
century. It toured this country in a display and twice in England as a
replica. The design came from a pillow at V/A.

At any rate, peerages back then were pretty much all drive-by's, with a

little more attention paid to the Chiv.  No warning, no special outfits,
no
vigils, nada.  Wham, bam, thank you ma'am...next? sort of thing.



The knights got all kinds of attention when elevated...vigils, cleansing,
the whole bit. The other peers got a good luck back then.  Now they can have
something special only if they let it be known.

I have always done all kinds of crafts.  I grew up in the country where
nothing was wasted. I had to make a handkerchief for each of my grandmothers
for Christmas every year. It could be embroidered, have crochet or tatted
lace, drawn work, or whatever, but it had to be special. I learned all kinds
of things to prevent being bored.

Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] in search of a lost person

[Bonnie Booker]

On 5/25/06, Sue Clemenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Oh, cool! There's another one of us! ;o)
--sue, who got laureled for blackwork, she thinks (wierd peerage
ceremony...what can I say?)

"Blackwork, Lace, Costuming, and a myrid of other things." Some 15 years
ago.  And you?
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Re: [h-cost] in search of a lost person

[Bonnie Booker]

There was most likely several of us. Was I one?  SCA Blackwork Laurel.
Studied for 22 years.

On 5/23/06, Cynthia J Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Would the kind individual who wrote me about blackwork please do so
again? Your letter was accidentally deleted, for which I apologize. :(

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Aspasia Moonwind

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Re: [h-cost] Redwork

[Bonnie Booker]

>
> Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more
> about the painting that this detail is from?


I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of
internet classes for St. Leo University.  I have to sneak in time to even
check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of
Hardwick.  The others I will have to check.  I have care of  3 yr old and 6
yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too
distracted when I'm alone with them.  I will try.  Maybe someone else can
find them sooner.

Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] Redwork

[Bonnie Booker]

On 2/23/06, Carletta da Nicolosi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity and basically ignorance on this style of embroidery, what
> is the earliest documentable date redwork was used on garments?  It is
> stunning!


I teach Blackwork...which includes Redwork and other Monochrome embroidery.
I have found photos from the 16th century from the Hardwick collection at
http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/portraits/hardwickphoto.jpg and others at
http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/portraits/jesus.jpg and
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/moroni/moroni2.jpg

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> Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] mid 19th century lace what to look for

[Bonnie Booker]

> US publishers are also required to give free copies of every book to the
> Library of Congress, at least if they get any cataloging data off the
> LOC.  But the LOC, being short of storage space, simply discards a great
> many books, I don't know by what means.
>
> It means they put them on a shelf in the basement for a period of time.
> They allow non-profit organizations to select any they can use.  I was
> allowed some for my Kingdom, using our non-profit status a few years ago.
> They didn't have much at the time.  Most of them were old copies of things
> that had updated copies or well out of date. I don't know where they go from
> there.
>
> --
> Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] New Medieval Gallery at the Museum of London

[Bonnie Booker]

> Tonight I went to a private viewing of the new Medieval Gallery at
> the Museum of London (c400-1558.) For a wonder the cases are well
> lit, and to an extent you can get to the sides, and sometimes round
> the back. For the interest of this list there are tiny knitted
> garments for children, knitted caps, a fragment of sleeve with
> buttons, (in the Crowfoot/Staniland book), thimbles, pins, jewellery,
> madder dyed textiles, a leather jerkin, belts, a garter of wool,
> shoes, patterns, a cod piece and various other relevant things like
> for weaving, about which I know nothing. The wire frame for the Gable
> Headdress, which I copied for the Museum, was on display, and also a
> frame for a French hood!!! The think I find most personal is a
> beautiful fine hairnet, which I had the good fortune to handle many
> years ago, and it was very evocative of a real person.

 For us travel limited, do they have a place on line? My daughter was there
many times when she spent 6 mo. last winter, but I'm disabled and have
problems getting around.


> Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] crochet

[Bonnie Booker]

>
>
> Bonnie mentioned:
> >...thousands of "hooks and crochets" listed in the inventory of the
> >belongings of Queen Mary I of England when returning to the court of her
> >father, King Henry VIII.
>
> Yes, but from the surviving specimens and the way they are described in
> the inventories, these are clearly "dress hooks" (imagine the hook part of
> giant hook-and-eye fasteners). They have a semi-circular open hook, less
> than 1 inch of shaft, and end with a flat plate pierced with holes for
> sewing onto the garment. They would be impossible to use as tools.
>
> I differ with you, but not being able to time travel, neither of us can
> present definitive proof. There is clearly lace on the collars, cuffs, and
> headpieces of the time. Also what looks to be lace on the passements that
> time and before. It may or may not be. This does not pass away the
> "crochets" part of the listing nor why it is listed in conjunction with the
> hooks. Some people have also said it is buttoning hooks. Crochets could be
> anything from heavy yarns for bedhangings to decorative fine lace. There was
> also mentions of Elizabeth being fond of her fine chain headpieces. Again,
> may or may not be. There is no conclusive evidence either way. It seems to
> be too much circumstansal evidence to say nay.
> --
> Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] crochet

[Bonnie Booker]

On 11/1/05, Lloyd Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Can someone point me in the way of needlework history of the development
> of crochet? Warren and Pullan indicate that it was used in ancient times by
> shepherds as a means of converting sheared wool into garments. Other
> references I have turned up give notice to tambour work, guipuire Maltese
> laces and such. Is there any direct documented use of this form of lace
> making in the 18th C? In any case, it seems to relate to more primitive and
> coarse lace work.
> Comments?

 I'm afraid those sources aren't the best. Where they got their information
doesn't hold up.
However, see attachments 1, AN INTRODUCTION TO LACE by Gabrielle Pond.
Scribner's, NY, 1973. p.40-41.
attachment 2, LEGACY OF LACE ny Kathleen Warnick and Shirley Nilsson. Drown,
NY, 1989. p.12.
and thousands of "hooks and crochets" listed in the inventory of the
belongings of Queen Mary I of England when returning to the court of her
father, King Henry VIII. CALENDAR OF STATE PAPERS AND MANUSCRIPTS, RELATING
TO ENGLISH AFFAIRS Existing in Archives and Collections of Venice, edited
bhy Rawdon Brown and Allen B. Hinds. Vol. 38. Longman & C,m Kibdibm
1864-1947. p.92

Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Blackwork coif

[Bonnie Booker]

>
>
> I don't know how much embroidery you have done but if you are wanting a
> counted type pattern on the shirt, give a try at just eyeballing it :).

 I don't recommend this as the pattern could become way off.

Also, a lot of the shirts, and the coifs, were not done in counted
> patterns but used a variety of stitches. Stem/outline stitch was very
> common.

 Holbein, or double running stitch is much more common outline stitch and
more authentic for a simple design. For more elaborate designs braid stitch
etc. If you aren't much of an embroider I recommend the Holbein.You can find
good simple designs at
www.blackworkarchives.comand
http://aeg.atlantia.sca.org/index.htm can give you patterns and refer you to
other places. There is a referal page on each to sites with period patterns.

There is a Blackwork group on Yahoo that also might be able to help.
> As stroll through the picture files will give you a lot of inspiration
> too.

 I recommend it. I'm a member. Also look at the photogallery for ideas.

--
> Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] Blackwork coif

[Bonnie Booker]

>
>
> I'm not sure how to go about it with the coif. I have found several sites
> on how to make the coif but I'm not sure if I should do an outline of the
> coif pattern on the material then do the blackwork on the pre-cut coif.

 Draw the outline of the coif on the linen. It is one piece. Then put the
embroidery design on the coif. If you are willing to use modern methods, cut
out a piece of tracing paper in the shape of the coif and trace the
developed design onto the paper with a transfer pencil and iron it on the
outlined coif. Or if you want to be period, draw it on (cartooning) on draw
it on butcher paper and poke holes in it and sprinkle charcoal in the holes.
I recommend the first.

 Also, I've noticed that many of the fabric and craft stores (Michael's) has
> like 28 or 32 count pieces of linen - is this fabric okay to use for the
> coif or should I buy regular even weave linen fabric?

 You can use this, but I use medium weight even weave white linen. Either
way, I line it with white linen.

 I basically have the same question for a man's shirt. I've figured out how
> to do the cuffs but not sure how to go about any other part of the shirt

 You can count threads on the coif and shirt, or on the shirt you can use
waste canvas. Instructions come on the package and you can get it at
Michael's. 14 count is the most common. That means 14 stitches to the inch,
but you can get a higher count (smaller design.)


 Aspasia Moonwind
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Re: [h-cost] Costume Books on eBay

[Bonnie Booker]

On 10/24/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm delurking to mention that I just listed several hard to find costume
> books on eBay that I just got at an estate sale (I had to buy them all to
> get the ones I wanted, the ones on eBay are outside of my area of interest).
> The easiest thing to do is a seller search for MAYFLOWER, they are all
> listed with "Buy it Now" prices, they are mostly related to 15th and 16th
> century costuming, but there is one about Regency costume and one about
> English chlidren's costume from 1300-1900.
>
> Perry
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