[h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
If a woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black? Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
I've never read anything to that effect. Certainly by the 1870s or 80s, every thread of mourning was advertised, and I don't recall any underwear being black. Ann in CT From: penn...@costumegallery.com penn...@costumegallery.com If a woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black? Penny Ladnier, owner ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
The only black Victorian underwear I've seen, besides corsets, was made of silk, and judging by the trimming, certainly wasn't for mourning. Melusine From: penn...@costumegallery.com penn...@costumegallery.com If a woman is in mourning during the 1860s, were her underpinnings black? Penny Ladnier, ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
The perception that Victorian colored corsets and underclothing are risque is a modern perception promoted by books and websites that also promote the idea that corsets and underclothing are inherently erotic. I'm not disputing that underclothing might have been used for erotic purposes by some Victorians, but the perception that that was its main purpose. One very important aspect of woolen and silk underclothes, and of corsets, is that they are harder to clean than white cottons and linens. That does not mean no one wore them, but it does mean that colors were a practical choice. My own book Reconstruction Era Fashions, which contains Harper's Bazar patterns of late 1867 through 1868, contains a pattern for a black alpaca underskirt trimmed (a wide bottom border) with striped red and black satin, and a corset of brown drilling. Red flannel was a perennial favorite for warm winter petticoats. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com On 1/18/2012 6:22 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote: penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
On 1/18/2012 6:35 PM, hhalb94...@aol.com wrote: Women only wearing white because it was pure and they didn't want to be thought of as a floosie is, I think, a modern romantic view, not actual history. White corsets and underclothing were also status symbols to some extent--they showed the wearer could afford to keep them clean and if they became too grubby to clean well, to replace them. This did not mean they were necessarily visible to anyone but a husband, a female family member (who might help her daughter, sister, etc., to dress), a lady's maid, a laundress, or a dressmaker who fitted dresses over her client's corset and underclothes. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
On 1/18/2012 6:22 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote: penny,? as you know, I am away from home and my referrences, but Cunnington has severel citations about underwear in general and?I think at least one I have seen re mourning.? Since (fashionable) women were just beginning to wear drawers and with the layers of chemise, corset and corset cover, etc, the color white was the only acceptable color for a Lady; other colors and trims that adorned the female form were only worn by the demi-monde or women who did not know better. Ehite stood for purity and respectability. It is only in the last quarter of the 19th c that hints of color began to be used. I too have never seen a black corset before...well, almost the 1950's...except in films or on the stage (and we all know what kind of woman would stoop to such seductive measures). Underwear was not to be seen...so for a woman in mourning to appear in anything that might be seen...off color...would be strange. There are referrences I believe that describe even Victoria wore White! kathleen? I own an original 1884 corset that is made of black satin coutil, with the remains of a red organza ruffle on the top edge. I have also seen and handled corset covers, drawers and combinations made of black silk from the 1880's, and petticoats of every color of the rainbow, including red, black and bright pink. None of these, however, had any indication that they were for mourning--quite the contrary, they were more embellished and of fabrics that would indicate them being for very fancy wear. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
Many thanks to everyone for your responses. I had never thought about it before and a friend asked me the question. I thought I would ask those people in the know! Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
1860's underpinnings were white ** They are also traditionally red. Especially in wool. Like wool flannel petticoats or bloomers. But I've seen red bustles and hoopskirts and cage hoops. Also red silk petticoats. I've never seen a red chemise though The only black underpinning items I've seen are corsets and petticoats, Usually silk. Usually very fine. Of course mourning has all kinds of rules. It depends on how fussy one wants to get as to how close one follows them. There's usually 1st a period of all black, then a time where white collars and cuffs and things can be worn with the black. Then a period where purple is OK. And then of course there's 1/2 mourning. None of these require black undies though.. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
