Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
But wool has scales on the fibres that help the felting process hair doesn't. Nylon net. . . well, I don't want any of that stuff on my scalp :-D (of course, this _is_ Penny's topic, not mine!) == Marjorie On May 3, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: You could try nylon net--bigger holes. Or needle felt the hair, like what my son did at school for an art project. The needles have burrs on them (something like that) so it felts the wool together. It might work on hair, too. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
But wool has scales on the fibres that help the felting process hair doesn't. Nylon net. . . well, I don't want any of that stuff on my scalp :-D (of course, this _is_ Penny's topic, not mine!) Hair does have scales, just not the same as wool. Anyway -- scales are not necessary for needle felting. You can successfully needle felt nearly any fiber, including synthetics. Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
Oh yes, hair has scales and will felt! I had a lock of human hair that I dyed along with some other thing I was dying black. I had to basically card the hair afterwards to work out all the matting, think dred locks... alex On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:17 AM, landofoz lando...@netins.net wrote: But wool has scales on the fibres that help the felting process hair doesn't. Nylon net. . . well, I don't want any of that stuff on my scalp :-D (of course, this _is_ Penny's topic, not mine!) Hair does have scales, just not the same as wool. Anyway -- scales are not necessary for needle felting. You can successfully needle felt nearly any fiber, including synthetics. Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
I have a past life as a theatrical hairdresser working in New York and regionally in plays, musicals and operas, and we built rats out of nylon net to use for wigs and hairstyles with the actors' own hair. Simply pick a color of net similar to the hair shade, draw up a shirred length with needle and thread, encompass it with more net and sew to secure, making a net burrito. It's more sanitary than human hair because it's easier to wash and disinfect, it's inexpensive, it won't crumple, you can make any size you need and it's not nearly so slippery and very easy to pin into -- plus you don't have to wait to amass all the hair. I realize that it's maybe not as aesthetically desirable as using one's own hair, but it's an easy and available option. Richard in MI ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
Someone in another post mentioned hair receptacle. I purchased an antique ceramic hair receptacle a few months ago at an estate sale. I have no idea how old it is. It is in two pieces that are donut shaped they sit one upon the other. I have been collecting hair after washing my hair and brushing my hair the putting it in the hair receptacle. I have also collected my hair after having it trimmed. It has taken me a couple of months to fill the receptacle. I am surprised how quickly it filled up. Now, for making the rat...would it work best to place the hair in panty hose before using it in my hair? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Penny Ladnier penn...@costumegallery.comwrote: Now, for making the rat...would it work best to place the hair in panty hose before using it in my hair? I've heard 'invisible' hair nets plus some hairspray recommended by those who've done it before. Pantyhose might work but one of the great benefits of making a ratt from your own hair is that it is already colour matched. Finding pantyhose to match your hair colour (especially if you're not a brunette) is trickier. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
Many years ago, about 6 now as a matter of fact, when I first decided to start growing my hair out I bought a bakelite receiver from a local antique shop (it was all I could find and afford at the time) and start using it. What I did was take the hair from the brush BEFORE washing and I should have cleaned it but hadn't thought of it at the time. I ended up with a bag full of various sized rats and even tried the hair net approach but they just never worked. Chances are I wasn't doing it right, making the pieces too small, etc. The final problem in doing this was using them. I found it very difficult to put them in without them being loose and slipping or coming through the hair styled over them. After these two posts though I might start over and wait until there is a lot of hair and stuff them really full to make big pieces. The hairspray is a good idea. Perhaps now that my hair is one colour again (I had recently coloured it burgundy by accident) the rats won't show throu! gh as much as they had under blonde hair? Justine J. DVLGS Organizer www.DVLGS.org -Original Message- From: Elizabeth Walpole lt;elizabeth.r.walp...@gmail.comgt; To: Historical Costume lt;h-cost...@indra.comgt; Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 11:54 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Penny Ladnier lt;penn...@costumegallery.comgt;wrote: gt; gt; gt; Now, for making the rat...would it work best to place the hair in panty gt; hose before using it in my hair? gt; gt; I've heard 'invisible' hair nets plus some hairspray recommended by those who've done it before. Pantyhose might work but one of the great benefits of making a ratt from your own hair is that it is already colour matched. Finding pantyhose to match your hair colour (especially if you're not a brunette) is trickier. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
Penny, Panty hose nylon is murder to put hairpins through, and hatpins would just run it. Then there's the color issue already mentioned. I should think almost anything else would work better. I would despair of ever getting a cover to match my own hair, which is now available in grayscale only (multiple shades) . . . :) Wondering out loud though. I might try some of that product that's designed to make fabric out of threads- it has some proprietary name I can't recall. Not Stitch-n-tear. . . sheesh. . . Ennyhow-- I'd try that, laying hair randomly across it and then fusing it. I think what's left is designed to wash out?? Somebody help me out here. Kayta? Do you recall the product name? It seems as if it might be ideal to contain your own hair, and would be made _from_ your own hair. == Marjorie Wilser (who'd go try it if there were a full-service fabric store in town!!) =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On May 3, 2010, at 8:27 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: Someone in another post mentioned hair receptacle. I purchased an antique ceramic hair receptacle a few months ago at an estate sale. I have no idea how old it is. It is in two pieces that are donut shaped they sit one upon the other. I have been collecting hair after washing my hair and brushing my hair the putting it in the hair receptacle. I have also collected my hair after having it trimmed. It has taken me a couple of months to fill the receptacle. I am surprised how quickly it filled up. Now, for making the rat...would it work best to place the hair in panty hose before using it in my hair? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
Penny, A little googling yielded the term water soluble fusible and the following (which doesn't seem exactly what I was trying to tell you about!!): There's a water-soluble fusible tape, called Wonder Tape, which rinses out after construction is complete, and which therefore doesn't change the character - stiffness or transparency - of the fabric. It just holds things in place while you stitch them down - hems, regular seams, or trims, etc. Again, your fabric must be washable, and must be pre-shrunk before using the fusible tape. Good product, not what I meant. Further googling included the term machine embroidery (since that was what brought it to mind): Designed for machine embroidery. Dunno if it will hold hairs together after it's washed out: http://www.amazon.com/Show-Fusible-Embroidery-Stabilizer-x10yd/dp/B0030MNU4S And some articles I didn't have a chance to read- but look helpful: http://www.needlepointers.com/ShowArticles.aspx?NavID=2047 I think I'm on the right track for my (untested!) theory though. Hope at least one of these is a winner! == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On May 3, 2010, at 8:27 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: Someone in another post mentioned hair receptacle. I purchased an antique ceramic hair receptacle a few months ago at an estate sale. I have no idea how old it is. It is in two pieces that are donut shaped they sit one upon the other. I have been collecting hair after washing my hair and brushing my hair the putting it in the hair receptacle. I have also collected my hair after having it trimmed. It has taken me a couple of months to fill the receptacle. I am surprised how quickly it filled up. Now, for making the rat...would it work best to place the hair in panty hose before using it in my hair? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle
You could try nylon net--bigger holes. Or needle felt the hair, like what my son did at school for an art project. The needles have burrs on them (something like that) so it felts the wool together. It might work on hair, too. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: hair receptacle Penny, Panty hose nylon is murder to put hairpins through, and hatpins would just run it. Then there's the color issue already mentioned. I should think almost anything else would work better. I would despair of ever getting a cover to match my own hair, which is now available in grayscale only (multiple shades) . . . :) Wondering out loud though. I might try some of that product that's designed to make fabric out of threads- it has some proprietary name I can't recall. Not Stitch-n-tear. . . sheesh. . . Ennyhow-- I'd try that, laying hair randomly across it and then fusing it. I think what's left is designed to wash out?? Somebody help me out here. Kayta? Do you recall the product name? It seems as if it might be ideal to contain your own hair, and would be made _from_ your own hair. == Marjorie Wilser (who'd go try it if there were a full-service fabric store in town!!) =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On May 3, 2010, at 8:27 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: Someone in another post mentioned hair receptacle. I purchased an antique ceramic hair receptacle a few months ago at an estate sale. I have no idea how old it is. It is in two pieces that are donut shaped they sit one upon the other. I have been collecting hair after washing my hair and brushing my hair the putting it in the hair receptacle. I have also collected my hair after having it trimmed. It has taken me a couple of months to fill the receptacle. I am surprised how quickly it filled up. Now, for making the rat...would it work best to place the hair in panty hose before using it in my hair? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:32:31 +0100 From: Anne anne.montgome...@googlemail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: Message-ID: 4bd81ccf.2080...@googlemail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I would be really interested to hear the result, if you choose this approach, because, to be honest, I never had much luck. My hair is just to my waist, and I have found that hairdressers are more practised in putting up hair that is to shoulder-blades or shorter. They don't seem to know where to store all the length, and weight, before doing fancy stuff with the last 8 inches. Jean This happened to me too at my brother's wedding about 18 months ago. My hair looked very nice but you certainly wouldn't have guessed that it is mid thigh length because most of it was just rolled up underneath itself. Admittedly it was very humid (the tropics in summer), which wasn't helping at all. I suspect most historical women would have had hair not much longer than the women drying their hair on that Victorian roof top. There seems to be a limit to how long you can grow your hair which is probably related to hair type, nutrition etc. Curiously I could never grow my hair past the small of my back until I had children. Now I find it is often too long for some historical styles, and I wonder what women who had very long hair did in these periods - or did they just cut it off for fashion's sake? Claire/Angharad ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian hair
Good to see your picture, Robin, after reading your postings on this list all these years. I see you have quite a high forehead. My hair, as well as being extremely thick, grows so low in front that when I used to wear it long (many years ago) it was very difficult to keep it from falling over my face. I did once style it like the young Queen Victoria, with plaits/braids looped round my ears and the back hair in a bun. Not much use for the lady who wanted 1880s styles, though. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
After much effort and little discovery though, arranging my hair in a nice period coiffure seems entirely inpossible! Many people I know chose to wear wigs or hair pieces when in costume and although this looks very nice, I have been painstakingly growing out and caring for my own hair for 7 years now solely for the purpose of doing these styles naturally. However, I cannot seem to find a way to do it. Perhaps because I am not very experienced styling hair? c1880 hair is the epitome of simple elegance :) I do have a guide on working with hair pieces for the ridiculous styles just before (styles which I love btw ;) ) http://articles.glittersweet.com This was an age of mass amounts of fake hair even for women who had long hair. But for 1880 a low bun is really all you need. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Genin_leona_barel.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ModeArtistique1880.jpg For this I would start with hair that has been set into fairly small curls (pin curls overnight works well) and brush it- this will make the hair fluff and appear fuller without adding heavy weight. Take the back section and make a ponytail at about crown. Part the front section and brush back behind and under the tail. You will probably have to wrap the ends around the tail base or curl then at the back of the head. Twist the ponytail lightly and take the end back up to the crown. Let the hair twist back on itself. Secure the ends around the tail base and carefully pin the twist to the back of the head. Add flowers and whatnots to the side. It will take experimentation and practice to work out where to put the pins and how tightly or loosely to twist the ponytail. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Photographie1880IV4.jpg Another example of the flat top and full at the back style. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RevewDeLaMode-1881.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ModeArtistiqueSeptember1883.jpg Pretty much all of these can be done by making sure your hair is as fluffy as possible and adaptations on the theme of ponytail wrapped and twisted. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/historical/19thc/1880sheer.htm That's how I did this, though without time to dress myself as well as others I didn't use any spray or anything to help my hair stay fluffy all day. Michaela de Bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Hello fellow costumers. ? I wanted to thank those of you who offered your suggestions on mounting swags onto my 1880s balldress. Your advice helped immensely in the creation process and everything went together mostly as planned. My only frustration was that once the decorative parts were?tacked by hand?in place, they lost the smoothness upon laying across the edges of the bodice as had been when initially pinned in place and puckered in some spots. ? After much effort and little discovery though, arranging my hair in a nice period coiffure seems entirely inpossible! Many people I know chose to wear wigs or hair pieces when in costume and although this looks very nice, I have been painstakingly growing out and caring for my own hair for 7 years now solely for the purpose of doing these styles naturally. However, I cannot seem to find a way to do it. Perhaps because I am not very experienced styling hair? ? If there is anyone who could and would be interested in training me on how to put my hair up in some styles it would be so very appreciated and would be willing compensate you for your assistance. My hair is currently down to the bottom of my back or longer. I don't know because I usually brush it out at the side and put it right back up so I haven't measured lately.? Also, I live just outside of Philadelphia PA. Thank you so much :) ? Kindest Regards, Delaware Valley Ladies and Gentlemen Society lady_of_bris...@yahoo.com www.DVLGS.org ? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
This is a thought...take an image of what you want and take it to a hairdresser that does bridal styles. Ask them if they can recreate the style. There are hairdressers that specialize in bridal up-dos. Penny Ladnier (who grew my hair long in the early 1980s to look like Laura's hair on General Hospital) Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
I would be really interested to hear the result, if you choose this approach, because, to be honest, I never had much luck. My hair is just to my waist, and I have found that hairdressers are more practised in putting up hair that is to shoulder-blades or shorter. They don't seem to know where to store all the length, and weight, before doing fancy stuff with the last 8 inches. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote: This is a thought...take an image of what you want and take it to a hairdresser that does bridal styles. Ask them if they can recreate the style. There are hairdressers that specialize in bridal up-dos. Penny Ladnier (who grew my hair long in the early 1980s to look like Laura's hair on General Hospital) Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
I would expect having the very long hair would be an asset. After all, many of the styles use a lot of braids wrapped around creatively. Many people use braided hair pieces, but you could use your own hair because you would have the length. My problem is not the length but the thickness. I remember when I got my hair done for my wedding. They had to pincurl a lot of my hair to my scalp underneath my actual do because I would have just had too many curls. :p Personally, I have never had luck with historic hairstyles from people who normally do up-dos. They just have a different mindset. (There is one exception but that was because she was interested in historic hair.) From: Anne anne.montgome...@googlemail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 12:32:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: I would be really interested to hear the result, if you choose this approach, because, to be honest, I never had much luck. My hair is just to my waist, and I have found that hairdressers are more practised in putting up hair that is to shoulder-blades or shorter. They don't seem to know where to store all the length, and weight, before doing fancy stuff with the last 8 inches. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote: This is a thought...take an image of what you want and take it to a hairdresser that does bridal styles. Ask them if they can recreate the style. There are hairdressers that specialize in bridal up-dos. Penny Ladnier (who grew my hair long in the early 1980s to look like Laura's hair on General Hospital) Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Here is something that I threw together decades ago from an old doll pattern, hope it helps. :) http://www.glove.org/costume/hair/ ♫ Chiara Francesca Which 'Chiara'...?? Nah... wasn't me ;-) -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of ladybeanofbun...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:08 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: Hello fellow costumers. ? I wanted to thank those of you who offered your suggestions on mounting swags onto my 1880s balldress. Your advice helped immensely in the creation process and everything went together mostly as planned. My only frustration was that once the decorative parts were?tacked by hand?in place, they lost the smoothness upon laying across the edges of the bodice as had been when initially pinned in place and puckered in some spots. ? After much effort and little discovery though, arranging my hair in a nice period coiffure seems entirely inpossible! Many people I know chose to wear wigs or hair pieces when in costume and although this looks very nice, I have been painstakingly growing out and caring for my own hair for 7 years now solely for the purpose of doing these styles naturally. However, I cannot seem to find a way to do it. Perhaps because I am not very experienced styling hair? ? If there is anyone who could and would be interested in training me on how to put my hair up in some styles it would be so very appreciated and would be willing compensate you for your assistance. My hair is currently down to the bottom of my back or longer. I don't know because I usually brush it out at the side and put it right back up so I haven't measured lately.? Also, I live just outside of Philadelphia PA. Thank you so much :) ? Kindest Regards, Delaware Valley Ladies and Gentlemen Society lady_of_bris...@yahoo.com www.DVLGS.org ? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
There are women in the braiding booth at Dickens Faire and Ren Faire who put up long hair beautifully. They do elaborate braids, and then arrange the braids. Lovely. I don't know if there is a link to them on the Dickens site (www.dickensfair.com) If not, you can contact the Dickens fair folks. They have photos in a book outside the booth. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Anne Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: I would be really interested to hear the result, if you choose this approach, because, to be honest, I never had much luck. My hair is just to my waist, and I have found that hairdressers are more practised in putting up hair that is to shoulder-blades or shorter. They don't seem to know where to store all the length, and weight, before doing fancy stuff with the last 8 inches. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote: This is a thought...take an image of what you want and take it to a hairdresser that does bridal styles. Ask them if they can recreate the style. There are hairdressers that specialize in bridal up-dos. Penny Ladnier (who grew my hair long in the early 1980s to look like Laura's hair on General Hospital) Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Many people save their hair, the stuff that ends up in their brush, for use in fancy hair styles. They make a rat of it and pin/arrange the rest of the hair over it. Also, many fancy hairstyles used false pieces. There is a scene in Jefferson In Paris, where the daughter is upset, and pulls her hairstyle down, pulling out the false pieces as she does. The folks at the Dickens fair, in SF, braid long hair, then arrange the braids in elaborate styles. If you do a Google image search period hairstyles, the very first picture (of Gwyneth Paltrow in Emma), will take you to an article and if you click on the In Timely Fashion link, it takes you to a site which shows how to arrange hair into various styles. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of ladybeanofbun...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:08 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: Hello fellow costumers. ? I wanted to thank those of you who offered your suggestions on mounting swags onto my 1880s balldress. Your advice helped immensely in the creation process and everything went together mostly as planned. My only frustration was that once the decorative parts were?tacked by hand?in place, they lost the smoothness upon laying across the edges of the bodice as had been when initially pinned in place and puckered in some spots. ? After much effort and little discovery though, arranging my hair in a nice period coiffure seems entirely inpossible! Many people I know chose to wear wigs or hair pieces when in costume and although this looks very nice, I have been painstakingly growing out and caring for my own hair for 7 years now solely for the purpose of doing these styles naturally. However, I cannot seem to find a way to do it. Perhaps because I am not very experienced styling hair? ? If there is anyone who could and would be interested in training me on how to put my hair up in some styles it would be so very appreciated and would be willing compensate you for your assistance. My hair is currently down to the bottom of my back or longer. I don't know because I usually brush it out at the side and put it right back up so I haven't measured lately.? Also, I live just outside of Philadelphia PA. Thank you so much :) ? Kindest Regards, Delaware Valley Ladies and Gentlemen Society lady_of_bris...@yahoo.com www.DVLGS.org ? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Sharon Collier wrote: Many people save their hair, the stuff that ends up in their brush, for use in fancy hair styles. They make a rat of it and pin/arrange the rest of the hair over it. Also, many fancy hairstyles used false pieces. There is a scene in Jefferson In Paris, where the daughter is upset, and pulls her hairstyle down, pulling out the false pieces as she does. ... I think the original poster's problem was not that she had too little hair to do the styles (something modern hairdressers can be pretty good at compensating for, particularly in bridal styling) but rather, she needed help dealing with a large quantity of hair, which is in many cases more historically accurate. As someone brought up earlier, these days a mainstream hairdresser thinks shoulder-length counts as long, and modern instructions for fancy styles are written assuming a shorter-than-period length. I'm of an age now where I can only look forward to having less hair over time rather than more, even though I haven't cut it since I was 17 and don't ever intend to. Thanks to the natural effects of aging, my braid has lost a third of its length and half its thickness in the last 10 years. But I still have enough hair for two or three modern people, I think. One thing I've found makes a crucial difference in doing elaborate hairstyles is texture, particularly slipperiness. Some people have naturally smooth/straight hair, but this becomes even worse to deal with if you use modern hair care products, particularly conditioners. Those make your hair smoother, and it will slip right out of many arrangements. It's important to remember if you read Victorian instructions for hairstyles that the people those instructions were written for had, in general, a very different texture to their hair than people do now. One option is to overload the hair with gels, powders, or other additives when you do the styling, to make it stickier, but this can get pretty nasty and heavy, and may cause other problems with the styling. Another solution -- but this takes a longer-term commitment -- is to adopt a pre-modern hair care regimen. That means no shampoo or conditioner at all, just extensive brushing in a way that cleans the hair, and periodic rinsing with water or herbal infusions. We've had extensive discussions about this on the list periodically in the past, but it's been a few years since it's come up. After we talked about non-modern hair care regimens here in 2000, I tried it myself, with great success. Any of you who have met me in the past 10 years will know how good my hair looks -- and I haven't used shampoo more than four or five times in that period (mostly in cases where I needed to get out something like chlorine after swimming). My hair has tremendous body, is not oily at all, and if I style it, it stays where I put it. --Robin p.s. Here are some recent photos of me dancing, which give a good view of my hair in motion: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2034901id=1238106328l=86e96422ff FB people, please don't friend me at the above page unless you are particularly interested in me rattling on about my kids. My costume friends are welcome at my *other* FB page -- search on resea...@netherton.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
On 4/27/2010 11:08 PM, ladybeanofbun...@aol.com wrote: Hello fellow costumers. ? I wanted to thank those of you who offered your suggestions on mounting swags onto my 1880s balldress. Your advice helped immensely in the creation process and everything went together mostly as planned. My only frustration was that once the decorative parts were?tacked by hand?in place, they lost the smoothness upon laying across the edges of the bodice as had been when initially pinned in place and puckered in some spots. ? After much effort and little discovery though, arranging my hair in a nice period coiffure seems entirely inpossible! Many people I know chose to wear wigs or hair pieces when in costume and although this looks very nice, I have been painstakingly growing out and caring for my own hair for 7 years now solely for the purpose of doing these styles naturally. For many Victorian hairstyles (although obviously this is a long time period and numerous hairstyles were in fashion at different times), natural long hair is just insufficient. Even long-haired Victorians often wore hair pieces, sometimes several in the same coiffure. I've grown my hair for years too, so I know where you're coming from. But basically, all anyone really _needs_ is enough hair to put the hair pieces on. Hair pieces do have the advantage that if you have a cluster of curls, or a braid, or whatever, you do not have to keep restyling that piece them every single time you do the hairstyle. You just attach them. Sure, with long hair you may need one fewer hair piece for a style, but having or not having long hair is mostly a matter for your modern daily lifestyle. Fran Lavolta Press Books on historic clothing www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
One option is to overload the hair with gels, powders, or other additives when you do the styling, to make it stickier, but this can get pretty nasty and heavy, and may cause other problems with the styling. Another solution -- but this takes a longer-term commitment -- is to adopt a pre-modern hair care regimen. For the 19th century at least, the they got the texture and body by never washing their hair is a reenactor's myth. In fact, people were using the equivalents of modern hair products, whether these came in a bottle with a label or not. I know the early 19th century is not the same as the later 19th century--though I've done some research on that too. But, here is a list of some home recipes from my book on the 1820s, _The Lady's Stratagem. Four kinds of depilatory (most containing quicklime and various forms of arsenic). Also, directions for plucking unwanted hairs Oil for making the hair grow (vegetable oil and spirit of rosemary) Four kinds of pomatum/pomade (perfumed animal fats) Ten kinds of antique oils (perfumed nut or vegetable oils, sometimes with additions such as gum guaiac, which had stiffening properties. These recipes include the long-popular Macassar oil). Oils would render the hair more slippery than most modern conditioners Two curling fluids (consisting of soap melted with such ingredients as alcohol and potash) About ten vegetable hair dyes In addition to directions for sponge-washing the hair without immersing the whole head--where much of the soap would likely remain in the hair after the process is over and therefore stiffen it--there are period arguments for and against vigorously immersing and washing the whole head full of hair. Arguments against: It causes headaches, earaches, toothaches, complaints of the eyes, wrinkles, and head colds. Arguments for: Nothing contributes more to prevent these very consequences than frequently washing the head with tepid water, that is, about milk-warm. When the hair is very long, or when much use is made of hair oils and pomatums, I cannot imagine how the hair can be rendered comfortable without frequently washing it. And more of same. I would suggest that for any given historic period, anyone arguing either that the hair was never washed or that hair products were not used to change the texture, look at any available books of beauty recipes for that period. Fran Lavolta Press Books on historic clothing www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Lavolta Press wrote: For the 19th century at least, the they got the texture and body by never washing their hair is a reenactor's myth. In fact, people were using the equivalents of modern hair products, whether these came in a bottle with a label or not. You're right about that; it's an oversimplification. That's why I didn't say never washing -- I said I don't use *modern* shampoo or conditioner, which are products that have a very different effect from most of the oils, etc. you go on to helpfully describe. Arguments for: Nothing contributes more to prevent these very consequences than frequently washing the head with tepid water, that is, about milk-warm. When the hair is very long, or when much use is made of hair oils and pomatums, I cannot imagine how the hair can be rendered comfortable without frequently washing it. And more of same. That pretty much describes what I do -- warm-water rinses. I often use rosemary in my rinses, one of the ingredients mentioned in your list. I also sometimes do sponge-washing as you describe. The key for me is not using a modern shampoo, which is designed to remove the oils -- which I think is what most people today would consider washing. Most of the products you describe are oils/fats, which are used in a number of other cultures, not only Victorian England. I think most people today would be horrified at the thought of adding oil to their hair! In my experience, though, adding oil does not render the hair more slippery than most modern conditioners -- there's a difference; conditioners make my hair, at least, very slick, and oils (when I need them) do not. Maybe oils are absorbed more, or differently, into the hair shaft? Do conditioners include glycerins or other ingredients that behave differently from oil? I'm not a chemist. I think I'll skip the potash and alcohol mixes, though ;-) Another factor worth considering is frequency of cleaning. Today's typical regimen, for many people, assumes daily washing with shampoo, a phenomenon that developed within my lifetime. 50 years ago, washing once a week seemed more the norm. This difference really has an effect on the oil balance in the hair and scalp. I don't know what frequency of washing/rinsing is recommended in the Victorian manuals, and I'd be curious to know. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
In addition to directions for sponge-washing the hair without immersing the whole head--where much of the soap would likely remain in the hair after the process is over and therefore stiffen it--there are period arguments for and against vigorously immersing and washing the whole head full of hair. Arguments against: It causes headaches, earaches, toothaches, complaints of the eyes, wrinkles, and head colds. * Imagine tons of wet hair in a fireplace or coal stove heated houseon a cold day in a age without antibiotics. Which puts me in mind of one of my favorite paintings by one of my favorite artists: Sunday, Women drying their hair by John Slone.. This is 1912 so it's not really Victorian, but... http://www.metmuseum.org/special/americanstories/objectView.aspx?sid=5oid=35 Notice the length. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
There are salons that specialize in long hair, conditioning rather than cutting. While they may also have modern sensibilities regarding styles, they do know how to handle long lengths. The idea of bringing a picture or two is a good one. The George Michael Salon in New York has affiliates and also trains people who might work in a salon or independently in other cities. Also check discussion forums for long hair enthusiasts. They should be able to recommend someone in your area. -Carol On Apr 28, 2010, at 7:32 AM, Anne wrote: I would be really interested to hear the result, if you choose this approach, because, to be honest, I never had much luck. My hair is just to my waist, and I have found that hairdressers are more practised in putting up hair that is to shoulder-blades or shorter. They don't seem to know where to store all the length, and weight, before doing fancy stuff with the last 8 inches. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote: This is a thought...take an image of what you want and take it to a hairdresser that does bridal styles. Ask them if they can recreate the style. There are hairdressers that specialize in bridal up-dos. Penny Ladnier (who grew my hair long in the early 1980s to look like Laura's hair on General Hospital) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
Carol, Is the long hair email list that you and I belonged to still around? I offered to pick up the list when they were closing it. but never heard back from the owner. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
I collect hair care and style articles. They are in the subscription area of my Library, http://www.pasthairstyles.com/. I have hair care manuals online from 1899 and 1911. A study in the 1899 manual about women marriage success according to their hair color. It is so funny! I have several more articles to put online. I recently purchased an 1868 Harper's with step-by-step directions for a ladies' hairstyle. This was accomplished with the ladies' own long hair. It doesn't look difficult to do. Since the film, The Young Victoria, came out, the Queen's hairstyles have become fashionable again in tweens and teenagers. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
When I was using a run of 1867-1868 _Harper's Bazars_ for _Reconstruction Era Fashions_, what struck me were the numerous descriptions purchased chignons, a term used to cover a wide variety of hair pieces/styles attached more or less to the back of the head. I put some of this information in the book. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Clothing www.lavoltapress.com I recently purchased an 1868 Harper's with step-by-step directions for a ladies' hairstyle. This was accomplished with the ladies' own long hair. It doesn't look difficult to do. Since the film, The Young Victoria, came out, the Queen's hairstyles have become fashionable again in tweens and teenagers. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
? I think most people today would be horrified at the thought of adding oil to their hair! Believe it or not, aside from having to full submersion cleanse my hair maybe once every week or every other week, part of my regime in doing so involves combing in an herbal Indian hair oil I buy at Subzi Mandi nearby. I find this to be a much more effective means of pretending tangles and a few days after my hair completely dries (I keep it wrapped all the time) it regains all it's slipperiness. As you can imagine, by the time wash day comes along for my hair it is raring to go in terms of oils and great texture, it's just the my main issue is the actual arrangement of my hair pieces into a period hairstyle that is the problem. I will keep in mind hair dressers for Asian weddings as I have seen what gorgeous styles are worn for traditional weddings (not to mention the headpieces in Chinese culture). I did try a modern pomade once that I purchased from the Afro-American section of the beauty department and it was great! Only problem after using it was that I couldn't wash it out because it was so waxy and thick, not even Dawn could take it out right away. Justine Jackson DVLGS Organizer www.DVLGS.org -Original Message- From: Lavolta Press lt;f...@lavoltapress.comgt; To: Historical Costume lt;h-cost...@indra.comgt; Sent: Wed, Apr 28, 2010 9:57 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: When I was using a run of 1867-1868 _Harper's Bazars_ for _Reconstruction Era Fashions_, what struck me were the numerous descriptions purchased chignons, a term used to cover a wide variety of hair pieces/styles attached more or less to the back of the head. I put some of this information in the book.? ? Fran? Lavolta Press? Books on Historic Clothing? www.lavoltapress.com? ? I recently purchased an 1868? gt; Harper's with step-by-step directions for a ladies' hairstyle. This was? gt; accomplished with the ladies' own long hair. It doesn't look difficult? gt; to do.? gt;? gt; Since the film, The Young Victoria, came out, the Queen's hairstyles? gt; have become fashionable again in tweens and teenagers.? gt;? gt; Penny Ladnier? gt; Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites? gt; www.costumegallery.com? gt; 14 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history? gt;? gt; ___? gt; h-costume mailing list? gt; h-cost...@mail.indra.com? gt; http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume? gt;? gt;? ___? h-costume mailing list? h-cost...@mail.indra.com? http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
There is a very good reason why people did not bathe that way until warmer weather and it had a lot to do with the simple fact that it was too cold to do so in winter. -Original Message- From: albert...@aol.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Apr 28, 2010 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair: In addition to directions for sponge-washing the hair without immersing the whole head--where much of the soap would likely remain in the hair after the process is over and therefore stiffen it--there are period arguments for and against vigorously immersing and washing the whole head full of hair. Arguments against: It causes headaches, earaches, toothaches, complaints of the eyes, wrinkles, and head colds. * Imagine tons of wet hair in a fireplace or coal stove heated houseon a cold day in a age without antibiotics. Which puts me in mind of one of my favorite paintings by one of my favorite artists: Sunday, Women drying their hair by John Slone.. This is 1912 so it's not really Victorian, but... http://www.metmuseum.org/special/americanstories/objectView.aspx?sid=5oid=35 Notice the length. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
On 4/28/2010 7:28 PM, ladybeanofbun...@aol.com wrote: There is a very good reason why people did not bathe that way until warmer weather and it had a lot to do with the simple fact that it was too cold to do so in winter. The 1820s advice manuals for the middle classes that I used for _The Lady's Stratagem_ strongly advised bathing in a tub as the principal means of health and freshness. The routine was once a week in all seasons, and two or even three times in the hottest weather (when, of course, people sweat more). The time dictated for the bath was at least an hour and a half. Also advised (this is explicitly stated as an addition to the tub bath routine) was bathing the armpits and feet every morning and evening. A daily tub bath was advised for those who wished to gain weight. I grew up in an 1859 farmhouse that was virtually unaltered when my parents bought it, and the later improvements in plumbing and heating went through long phases of nonfunctionality. I've taken lots of winter baths where the water was heated on the stove and poured into the tub. The water keeps you warm, so it's not too bad, although getting out of the tub into a drafty bathroom is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Shower baths were considered more uncomfortable (though bracing) but they seem to have been taken cold. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
