RE: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Sharon Collier]

And that raised the question of whether Mary Boleyn's son, Henry Carey, was
really Henry's bastard son, making him half brother to Elizabeth, instead of
only first cousin. Makes you wish you could be a fly on the wall  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adele de Maisieres
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:59 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 10/12/2007 9:03:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>   
>> the story of the bastard monarch
>> 
>
> *
>
> It was my impression the Ann and Henry were actually married when Liz 
> was conceived, and that cutting someone's head off for supposed 
> adultery is different from an annulment.
>   
The exact date of the marriage of Anne Boleyn to Henry VIII is not
known-- it was some time during late 1532 or January, 1533.  Elizabeth was
born in early September, so it's not possible to know with certainty whether
she was conceived just before or just after the marriage took place.  Her
parents were definitely married when she was born, though, which is what
matters in terms of legitimacy.

However, before Anne lost her head, her marriage to the King was annulled on
the grounds of the consanguinuity of a previous sexual relationship between
Henry and Anne's sister Mary, for which no dispensation had been granted (or
sought, for that matter). Elizabeth was declared a bastard.


--
Adele de Maisieres

-
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Adele de Maisieres]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 10/12/2007 9:03:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  
the story of the bastard monarch 



*

It was my impression the Ann and Henry were actually married when Liz was 
conceived, and that cutting someone's head off for supposed adultery is different 
from an annulment.
  
The exact date of the marriage of Anne Boleyn to Henry VIII is not 
known-- it was some time during late 1532 or January, 1533.  Elizabeth 
was born in early September, so it's not possible to know with certainty 
whether she was conceived just before or just after the marriage took 
place.  Her parents were definitely married when she was born, though, 
which is what matters in terms of legitimacy.


However, before Anne lost her head, her marriage to the King was 
annulled on the grounds of the consanguinuity of a previous sexual 
relationship between Henry and Anne's sister Mary, for which no 
dispensation had been granted (or sought, for that matter). Elizabeth 
was declared a bastard.



--
Adele de Maisieres

-
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Beteena Paradise]

In the image I saw, it almost looked like it is a shot fabric with what could 
be black and blue... definitely black. You can see that in the skirt. But... it 
probably IS a rather later color of purple based on the rest of the costuming 
in the movie.
   
  But... it won't matter. I am sure I will see it and love it. I am always 
entertained by costume dramas and I adore Cate Blanchett.

Jean Waddie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  My first thought was, surely that shade of purple wasn't invented until 
the 19th century?

JEan

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Jean Waddie]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 10/12/2007 9:03:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  
the story of the bastard monarch 



*

It was my impression the Ann and Henry were actually married when Liz was 
conceived, and that cutting someone's head off for supposed adultery is different 
from an annulment.


  
She was illegitimised by Act of Parliament (along with Mary) when Henry 
married Jane Seymour, to make sure any children he had with Jane would 
take precedence, even if it hadn't been a boy.  But that was repealed 
later, I can't remember when but she would have done it when she came to 
the throne herself, if it hadn't been done before.


" Judging by the picture that accompanies the article (a heavy purple 
moire gown cut beautifully but lacking any decoration)..."


My first thought was, surely that shade of purple wasn't invented until 
the 19th century?


JEan

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Beteena Paradise]

I think the question of her illegitimacy has to do with the fact that he could 
have still been legally married to Katherine of Aragon when he married Anne. 
When the Pope wouldn't declare the marriage void, he took over the English 
church and declared it void himself. Many didn't see that as a valid annulment. 
   
  And, as I recall, she was pregnant with Elizabeth when they married, but that 
doesn't make her a bastard as long as they were married by the time she was 
born.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In a message dated 10/12/2007 9:03:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> the story of the bastard monarch 

*

It was my impression the Ann and Henry were actually married when Liz was 
conceived, and that cutting someone's head off for supposed adultery is 
different 
from an annulment.

Of course in this film anything's possible. I suppose there'll be some 
females in outrageous full armor like that last one



**
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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[AlbertCat]

In a message dated 10/12/2007 9:03:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> the story of the bastard monarch 

*

It was my impression the Ann and Henry were actually married when Liz was 
conceived, and that cutting someone's head off for supposed adultery is 
different 
from an annulment.

Of course in this film anything's possible. I suppose there'll be some 
females in outrageous full armor like that last one



**
 See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Dawn]

Hope Greenberg wrote:

Judging by the picture that accompanies the article (a heavy purple 
moire gown cut beautifully but lacking any decoration), the reviewer is 
spot-on. The costumes are certainly fabulous. Historically 
accuratewell...what do we expect??




I expect some escapist fantasy and some pretty costumes, historical or 
not, and an evening out with my husband. Same as I'd get from any movie.



Dawn

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Hope Greenberg]

Yikes! My apologies for not editing the previous 2 posts. I forgot that 
this particular e-mail client renders links as spelled out URLs when one 
chooses "send as text." Here I didn't want to complicate member 
e-mailboxes by sending as HTML and I ended up cluttering the messages 
with URLs. Ah well...


- Hope
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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Catherine Olanich Raymond]

On Friday 12 October 2007, Hope Greenberg wrote:
[snip]

> Judging by the picture that accompanies the article (a heavy purple
> moire gown cut beautifully but lacking any decoration), the reviewer is
> spot-on. The costumes are certainly fabulous. Historically
> accuratewell...what do we expect??

Not much.  Well, I don't.  I saw the first movie, and the costumes ranged 
from "Ren Faire close" to "What were they thinking!" in terms of accuracy.



-- 
Cathy Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information 
available."-- Gregory Benford

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth reviews

[Hope Greenberg]

Desson Thomson of the Washington Post has even more to say about the use 
of costumes in 'Elizabeth':


"Just in time for Halloween, "Elizabeth: The Golden Age" is here to tell 
us that evoking England 
's 
greatest queen is just a matter of finding the right gown, ruffled 
collar and frizzy wig. That seems to be the only purpose of this 
much-anticipated follow-up to 1998's "Elizabeth," which thrilled 
audiences with its spirited embrace of history and the introduction of a 
fiery newcomer named Cate Blanchett 
 
. Unfortunately, director Shekhar Kapur 
 
has doffed that sensual primacy for a bloated costume opera, in which 
the characters are essentially dress-up dolls, and Elizabeth has evolved 
from our favorite royal ingenue to a lifeless, chalk-faced runway diva."


Complete, and scathing, review at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101102296.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter

- Hope

---
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Academic Computing, U of Vermont
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