[Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Adir Abraham wrote: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: decide I said that from my message). I said we are going to use default/minimal setup and give them the CDs. The default should have many applications inside. We can't, and we shouldn't give the installee a minimal installation (unless we don't have another choice. For instance - storage reasons, or he knows in advance that it's going to be a server. In this case, we might want to minimize the installation). The installee should have a machine with many applications that we can use. He'll get a fully installed desktop machine, and from there (after some reading), he can choose what he likes to do with it. Given that, your entire message is moot. And installing 5GB takes a lot of time as we all witnessed during the last Installation Party. I don't want to do it again. In average, it takes about a hour to start and finish a full installation on a Celeron or Duron machine @ 1200MHz (I did those checks before the instaparty and I had the pleasure to install to such a machine in the instaparty itself). Ofcourse - if we don't have any special problems during the installation itself (hardware mismatch and other weird problems), and it goes smooth. You can conclude what happens with faster machines or those that include rich hardware features. I also assume that we'll have faster machines next year, so it will not take more than 40 minutes in average. So, 5GB doesn't sound so big, anymore. Some installations I've been at took several hours, (seriously), as they were on underpowered computers. The updating of the updates also took forever. And it barely fit on the hard-disk and filled in the partition with zsh and other useless software. Even one hour may be too long. BTW, my friend who is a newbie, had installed RedHat 9.0 on his own. The Internet works, but otherwise he has tons of trouble and thing don't work. I suggest we never install RedHat/Fedore again. RedHat 9.0 had many problems, I agree. But from that, going so far to never install RedHat/Fedore again ?! Mandrake is a much superior distribution to RedHat. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: 1. Buy a set of CDs from us. They already do it. However, they don't have to do it. Right, and I want them to have to do it, so it will simplify matters for us. Hmm.. You can't force anyone to buy CDs. Once you do it, you will miss the whole point of free (it's like forcing someone to buy an entrance ticket to a free event). Eifhr. ?! (should I google this?) You assume that the person: 1) will know how to update (including all sorts of dependancies). 2) will bother to update. 3) has fast connection to the Internet. No, it's not a good idea. Yes, it is. There were a few updates for RedHat 9.0 since the last instaparty, and if the people who installed the computers did not update, there systems are vulnerable now. We can't escape the fact that we cannot leave the newcomers at a clueless stage. Cluelessness doesn't work when dealing with computers. People do not think of maintenance, usually. The simple user will not think of updates. Not too soon, whatsoever. He might even wait for the next instaparty to occur. People do not think neither care of vulnerable systems (fact, but true). Since no viruses are involved, other security issues might not interest him (expolits and others). Cluelessness is the default when one uses a computer with a new OS. You install to such a person the new OS and from there he would like to have a working system. He can RTFM and do other things with it - but he doesn't have to. We have to teach them how to install stuff on their own! Many people are able to install stuff for Windows as well, as a pristine Windows machine does not come with all the required components. (it doesn't come up with anything that isn't Microsoft). Installing things is not so hard. Tell That to Someone Who Cares (tm). Usually people do not care about it. It's not Windows, in the meaning that it's a whole different attitude. And if you want to let them get used to Linux as much as they would feel comfortable with their Windows system (assuming they've had one), you have to show them how, and moreover - to have a listening ear (they don't have to listen to you. That's what the audience usually chooses). We're usually in great lack of listeners, unfortunately. Regards, Shlomi Fish Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Adir Abraham Technion's Advisors Group and Public PC Farms Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Haifa, Israel ICQ# 1841481 Cel# +972-53-243438, +972-55-481245 KeyID: 0xD8DC85C7 Fingerprint: 138D 8F41 7A06 44A0 3DBB 9DC3 FE8B 2658 -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com mQEPAzLax/sAAAEIAK2bI8utornDYd5LdU+/TABNmqXneiXuLx4j8OKD2GjfS/O8 E6nrX69ot4uU5ryjp5h+7VHBZqCQz+8VC8ly2ANtycejAc82gllVC96fbA+Y6uuN uI9aXkwNqhphmmQZIVaOZDRAo9//1zX9r41xY+8rKSQuNcp+FPD/A5Itng0xhsfS KkCV4tT0mGpiydUHFrugk/bouXPYwUHXSnHp/mPdGsjgqipezHPzCWIn3xcJjk2/ tjd5/ym+arWpKW5nvTuvalcMi2DIcEilSrT5NLwgeuh3eqitYOc9WTiMNMvUiVcP sucJkdxNwjEX9MgD/bLY9wT/13brqxk71tjchccAEQEAAbQnQWRpciBBYnJhaGFt IDxhZGlyQHZpcGUudGVjaG5pb24uYWMuaWw+iQEVAwUQMtrH+6sZO9bY3IXHAQGb 0gf9FwrJBKaTP0yvf3+vwtB+9ftS0woz1TawJwflC5EoHJs7D/5GzkAaRV82RSkH P9fSHmM+LUB0huBBK1qtNyXHWIjQTmYwFYC8Oen4q0Fyze7cloSnpD1rVjI0HoCO UU8bbz0Iseizdjhnl2PTItQ+dkKzLcww1jW5iPXOWd1o8/8s2aebhrpDRO8BfAYg H29jhmDtuVQDPgFfkN/kP+xpHQplMN5Qh1oP22f+Wyg8sVvSv8P7cM+88u46FHi3 zvHpVnZKIBtKhksnH1PYXtz7FvS7vA+MbpM47kgmQGL5Ygig0pUUbBCGlzmg2Hvd 262YCdVYNwpIjQWBLJI8orea0Q== =dgNP -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
Some people do, some people talk. Don't forget. Would *you* test mass deployment of Mandrake, as you say with such a clear voice RH sux, and Mandrake rulez. Grow up. Mandrake is better in some things, and RH is better on others. If you want to make it a flame war regarding distros, have fun, 'cause I ain't in this war. If you didn't like the last instaparty, you are most welcome to take the next one on yourself. I know that attitude matters, and if you keep this one, you're the only one going to be there. Get a life. Ez. On Monday 02 February 2004 10:30, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Ez-Aton wrote: ago, when MDK8.2 failed to install Lilo after failed X test. I had to write manually (running rescue mode) the /etc/lilo.conf file, and to hope for the best, as well as setup all kinds of post install scripts and actions, manually. It happened on too many computers. It's a stupid claim, and it has no basis, therefore, I did not claim the same. MDK9.2 had few troubles (esp. regarding Heb interface, but not only), and we voted agains installing it. One could come up with the claim We should install MDK next time, and never install RH based distro (not to mention that after all, MDK is based on RH...), but this claimer does not know what could have happened if we actually did install MDK. Also, nice claim, but I never actually used MDK KickStart mechanism, and during an instaparty, is not the best time for the first run. It might work, it might fail. Then can you please do us all a favour and use the Mandrake KickStart mechanism for the first few times? So we'll be better prepared for the next installation party? Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: Some installations I've been at took several hours, (seriously), as they were on underpowered computers. The updating of the updates also took forever. And it barely fit on the hard-disk and filled in the partition with zsh and other useless software. And I can give you an example of a dual HT processor (4 logical processors on one motherboard) with SCSI bus, and tell you that the installation took only 10 minutes. My point is that I'm talking about the average line. Even one hour may be too long. Mandrake is a much superior distribution to RedHat. Too subjective to discuss about. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Adir Abraham Technion's Advisors Group and Public PC Farms Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Haifa, Israel ICQ# 1841481 Cel# +972-53-243438, +972-55-481245 KeyID: 0xD8DC85C7 Fingerprint: 138D 8F41 7A06 44A0 3DBB 9DC3 FE8B 2658 -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com mQEPAzLax/sAAAEIAK2bI8utornDYd5LdU+/TABNmqXneiXuLx4j8OKD2GjfS/O8 E6nrX69ot4uU5ryjp5h+7VHBZqCQz+8VC8ly2ANtycejAc82gllVC96fbA+Y6uuN uI9aXkwNqhphmmQZIVaOZDRAo9//1zX9r41xY+8rKSQuNcp+FPD/A5Itng0xhsfS KkCV4tT0mGpiydUHFrugk/bouXPYwUHXSnHp/mPdGsjgqipezHPzCWIn3xcJjk2/ tjd5/ym+arWpKW5nvTuvalcMi2DIcEilSrT5NLwgeuh3eqitYOc9WTiMNMvUiVcP sucJkdxNwjEX9MgD/bLY9wT/13brqxk71tjchccAEQEAAbQnQWRpciBBYnJhaGFt IDxhZGlyQHZpcGUudGVjaG5pb24uYWMuaWw+iQEVAwUQMtrH+6sZO9bY3IXHAQGb 0gf9FwrJBKaTP0yvf3+vwtB+9ftS0woz1TawJwflC5EoHJs7D/5GzkAaRV82RSkH P9fSHmM+LUB0huBBK1qtNyXHWIjQTmYwFYC8Oen4q0Fyze7cloSnpD1rVjI0HoCO UU8bbz0Iseizdjhnl2PTItQ+dkKzLcww1jW5iPXOWd1o8/8s2aebhrpDRO8BfAYg H29jhmDtuVQDPgFfkN/kP+xpHQplMN5Qh1oP22f+Wyg8sVvSv8P7cM+88u46FHi3 zvHpVnZKIBtKhksnH1PYXtz7FvS7vA+MbpM47kgmQGL5Ygig0pUUbBCGlzmg2Hvd 262YCdVYNwpIjQWBLJI8orea0Q== =dgNP -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Oron Peled wrote: On Sunday 01 February 2004 11:18, Adir Abraham wrote: [a lot of valid points] ... You can conclude what happens with faster machines or those that include rich hardware features. I also assume that we'll have faster machines next year, so it will not take more than 40 minutes in average. Just adjusting some over-optimism: installation is very I/O bounded, and disk speed is advancing very slow (comparing to Moore's law for CPU). So unless next year you'll have everybody with SCSI disks, you won't see a lot of speedup. Still, I completely agree that the ~5GB full install is a wise decision in the context of install parties to newbies who would have hard time adding software. Worse, the typical newbie would assume that if some 'Z' software isn't on her system -- than Linux doesn't have 'Z' at all (actually, if an icon for 'Z' isn't on the menu than Linux doesn't have 'Z' software :-) That's quite unlikely. If people see that 'Z' is not available on Windows, they don't assume that Windows does not have 'Z' at all. They go to the Internet and find it. We can assume this will be the case for Linux as well. The best thing we can do is explain them how they can install more software, update their system, etc. Otherwise: 1. They eventually will find something that isn't on Linux, and won't know what to do. 2. They will cause their system to become vulnerable eventually. (unless we assume that absolutely no security bugs will be discovered from the time we install it until infinity). Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Ez-Aton wrote: Some people do, some people talk. Don't forget. Would *you* test mass deployment of Mandrake, as you say with such a clear voice RH sux, and Mandrake rulez. Sure, but I'll need some computers to test it on, as my father would kill me if I test it with our own computers. Grow up. Mandrake is better in some things, and RH is better on others. Wrong! Mandrake is superior to RedHat in any way, but let's not get into it. (except for bugs that occur in both randomly). Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: That's quite unlikely. If people see that 'Z' is not available on Windows, they don't assume that Windows does not have 'Z' at all. They go to the Internet and find it. We can assume this will be the case for Linux as well. You're way too naive :) If People see that if 'Z' is not available on Windows, they say that they simply don't have it, and they search the Internet to find its Windows version (using some P2P programs ;). They never claimed that it doesn't exist on Microsoft programs, and you won't find them saying that. The best thing we can do is explain them how they can install more software, update their system, etc. Otherwise: Finally I agree with you. I'll say even more - we can show them a whole process of installation in different ways (RPM, compilation, sh, GUI and other friends). I'm sure that we covered some of the chapters, but not in one installation lecture (software installation). 1. They eventually will find something that isn't on Linux, and won't know what to do. The simple user will find anything he needs (otherwise he wouldn't be so simple). Especially in the Internet. 2. They will cause their system to become vulnerable eventually. (unless we assume that absolutely no security bugs will be discovered from the time we install it until infinity). They don't care about it, and they don't know how dangerous it really is. Really. Security methods should be taught, and that's a whole different issue. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Adir Abraham Technion's Advisors Group and Public PC Farms Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Haifa, Israel ICQ# 1841481 Cel# +972-53-243438, +972-55-481245 KeyID: 0xD8DC85C7 Fingerprint: 138D 8F41 7A06 44A0 3DBB 9DC3 FE8B 2658 -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com mQEPAzLax/sAAAEIAK2bI8utornDYd5LdU+/TABNmqXneiXuLx4j8OKD2GjfS/O8 E6nrX69ot4uU5ryjp5h+7VHBZqCQz+8VC8ly2ANtycejAc82gllVC96fbA+Y6uuN uI9aXkwNqhphmmQZIVaOZDRAo9//1zX9r41xY+8rKSQuNcp+FPD/A5Itng0xhsfS KkCV4tT0mGpiydUHFrugk/bouXPYwUHXSnHp/mPdGsjgqipezHPzCWIn3xcJjk2/ tjd5/ym+arWpKW5nvTuvalcMi2DIcEilSrT5NLwgeuh3eqitYOc9WTiMNMvUiVcP sucJkdxNwjEX9MgD/bLY9wT/13brqxk71tjchccAEQEAAbQnQWRpciBBYnJhaGFt IDxhZGlyQHZpcGUudGVjaG5pb24uYWMuaWw+iQEVAwUQMtrH+6sZO9bY3IXHAQGb 0gf9FwrJBKaTP0yvf3+vwtB+9ftS0woz1TawJwflC5EoHJs7D/5GzkAaRV82RSkH P9fSHmM+LUB0huBBK1qtNyXHWIjQTmYwFYC8Oen4q0Fyze7cloSnpD1rVjI0HoCO UU8bbz0Iseizdjhnl2PTItQ+dkKzLcww1jW5iPXOWd1o8/8s2aebhrpDRO8BfAYg H29jhmDtuVQDPgFfkN/kP+xpHQplMN5Qh1oP22f+Wyg8sVvSv8P7cM+88u46FHi3 zvHpVnZKIBtKhksnH1PYXtz7FvS7vA+MbpM47kgmQGL5Ygig0pUUbBCGlzmg2Hvd 262YCdVYNwpIjQWBLJI8orea0Q== =dgNP -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
Some people do, some people talk. Don't forget. Would *you* test mass deployment of Mandrake, as you say with such a clear voice RH sux, and Mandrake rulez. Sure, but I'll need some computers to test it on, as my father would kill me if I test it with our own computers. That's your problem, not mine. You like mandrake, you test and setup Mass Deployment. Ez. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
Hi clubbers, Tell me guys, when is the next insta party? Soon? Couldn't find anything about that in the site. Because otherwise you are all wasting your breaths and time on this discussion. Experience shows that the real decisions about W2L and parties are made soon before the events themselves, and they usually reflect the people involved more than any conclusions made before. I suppose that you're all being nice, and giving someone his daily need of attention. Because that's exactly what you do. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] SiL installing software (was: Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust)
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, guy keren wrote: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Adir Abraham wrote: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: The best thing we can do is explain them how they can install more software, update their system, etc. Otherwise: Finally I agree with you. I'll say even more - we can show them a whole process of installation in different ways (RPM, compilation, sh, GUI and other friends). I'm sure that we covered some of the chapters, but not in one installation lecture (software installation). ienvisiona.freeSiLSlot.filledup...with Installing new software - from A to Z anyone wants to take on this? I think the Basic Admin lecture of W2L covers software installation reasonably, and there's no reason for another lecture on the topic, especially not in SiL. Alon -- This message was sent by Alon Altman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ICQ:1366540 GPG public key at http://alon.wox.org/pubkey.txt Key fingerprint = A670 6C81 19D3 3773 3627 DE14 B44A 50A3 FE06 7F24 -- -=[ Random Fortune ]=- Old age is the harbor of all ills. -- Bion -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Ez-Aton wrote: Some people do, some people talk. Don't forget. Would *you* test mass deployment of Mandrake, as you say with such a clear voice RH sux, and Mandrake rulez. Sure, but I'll need some computers to test it on, as my father would kill me if I test it with our own computers. That's your problem, not mine. You like mandrake, you test and setup Mass Deployment. Sorry, but it's _our_ problem. If we can't install Mandrake we are stuck with the sub-standard Fedora. We're all in the same boat here. Can anyone give me a couple of computers where I can test-drive KickStart for Mandrake? Regards, Shlomi Fish Ez. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote: It's free as in speech not free as in beer. Either we burn enough CDs to The installation is free. The CDs might be free based on sponsorship. give to anyone on our own expense, or tell them that either they buy CDs, We can't tell them. We may suggest them. They have minds. They can decide. Let the person who gets the service from us, to choose what he wants to buy (you can tell him the advantages/disadvantages of buying the CDs, but it shouldn't look like you force him. You'll miss the whole point of the party if you do so). download stuf over an Internet, or simply be content with what they'll get Once again, you assume that they will want to do it, and you assume that they have fast connection to the Internet. So you're saying: fine! Let's install a system that can be eventually exploited for crackers to gain access on the machine and do all kinds of I'm the last person who says that. I say that we should give them a flexible machine, with simple security tweaks. Afterwards, we shall let them choose what they wish to do with it, at home (every case is personal, after all). You can't close their computer to the rest of the world, and let them think that Linux doesn't work in the Internet. However, you may tell them that their computer is vulnerable and they should do more (reading, checking, maybe even use some auto-configuration scripts...) in order to protect their systems. I'll try to give some of these concepts in my SiL lecture, btw. You also can't really defend them against crackers (unless you want to visit them on a daily basis and update their system every day). They should do so themselves, if they want (with Gentoo I would simply tell them to emerge world, but let's leave that aside ;). nasty stuff there. Fine, let's not educate people that they need to be We're not educators. We're spreading the word, or we do the best to spread the word. If you think otherwise (i.e. I opened a hole for flames) - I'm not going to argue about it. responsible and clueful when using a computer. Sorry, but it doesn't work in the long run. It will be bad for them and will be bad for us. In the long run they will need to read stuff and keep learning, or they can stick to their current configuration (some people still use kernel 2.0.x, and/or Redhat 7.3, for instance) - their choise. -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ You are banished! You are banished! You are banished! Hey? I'm just kidding! -- Adir Abraham Technion's Advisors Group and Public PC Farms Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Haifa, Israel ICQ# 1841481 Cel# +972-53-243438, +972-55-481245 KeyID: 0xD8DC85C7 Fingerprint: 138D 8F41 7A06 44A0 3DBB 9DC3 FE8B 2658 -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com mQEPAzLax/sAAAEIAK2bI8utornDYd5LdU+/TABNmqXneiXuLx4j8OKD2GjfS/O8 E6nrX69ot4uU5ryjp5h+7VHBZqCQz+8VC8ly2ANtycejAc82gllVC96fbA+Y6uuN uI9aXkwNqhphmmQZIVaOZDRAo9//1zX9r41xY+8rKSQuNcp+FPD/A5Itng0xhsfS KkCV4tT0mGpiydUHFrugk/bouXPYwUHXSnHp/mPdGsjgqipezHPzCWIn3xcJjk2/ tjd5/ym+arWpKW5nvTuvalcMi2DIcEilSrT5NLwgeuh3eqitYOc9WTiMNMvUiVcP sucJkdxNwjEX9MgD/bLY9wT/13brqxk71tjchccAEQEAAbQnQWRpciBBYnJhaGFt IDxhZGlyQHZpcGUudGVjaG5pb24uYWMuaWw+iQEVAwUQMtrH+6sZO9bY3IXHAQGb 0gf9FwrJBKaTP0yvf3+vwtB+9ftS0woz1TawJwflC5EoHJs7D/5GzkAaRV82RSkH P9fSHmM+LUB0huBBK1qtNyXHWIjQTmYwFYC8Oen4q0Fyze7cloSnpD1rVjI0HoCO UU8bbz0Iseizdjhnl2PTItQ+dkKzLcww1jW5iPXOWd1o8/8s2aebhrpDRO8BfAYg H29jhmDtuVQDPgFfkN/kP+xpHQplMN5Qh1oP22f+Wyg8sVvSv8P7cM+88u46FHi3 zvHpVnZKIBtKhksnH1PYXtz7FvS7vA+MbpM47kgmQGL5Ygig0pUUbBCGlzmg2Hvd 262YCdVYNwpIjQWBLJI8orea0Q== =dgNP -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] SiL installing software (was: Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust)
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Alon Altman wrote: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, guy keren wrote: ienvisiona.freeSiLSlot.filledup...with Installing new software - from A to Z anyone wants to take on this? I think the Basic Admin lecture of W2L covers software installation reasonably, and there's no reason for another lecture on the topic, especially not in SiL. the pace, the pace it's too fast during W2L, and too few demonstrations. what i envision, is taking several types of applications and showing how they are installed. i would take: 1. an RPM application with dependencies... 2. an SRPM too? 3. one of the 'configure/make/make install' applications. 4. sun's or IBM's jdk. this includes setting PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH... 5. perhaps something coming from a project's CVS? there is no need to know much about CVS itself in order to do that, and people do get the occasional oh, this bug making the application crash for you, was solved in CVS head, try it. in each case i will show how i find it on the web, download (preparing a previously downloaded copy a-la the hachinoti imi merosh method), install, and configure. i will include showing how i create an icon for the application on the desktop, if there is none, or a handy shell alias to run it, if it has a complicated command-line. i still remember what it was like, to install software, when i had very little experience. it's in-ti-mi-da-ting, and when something fucks up, it was hard to know what to do. after seeing a few examples, people will probably feel better regarding the whole issue, and be more willing to experiment on their own. -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] SiL installing software (was: Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust)
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, guy keren wrote: ienvisiona.freeSiLSlot.filledup...with Installing new software - from A to Z anyone wants to take on this? Ehh.. Go for it, please :) It is more than worth to be a seperate lecture, and not something that is mixed between other lectures. It's something that a newbie might look for and find, simply by checking the relevant lecture. -- Adir Abraham Technion's Advisors Group and Public PC Farms Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Haifa, Israel ICQ# 1841481 Cel# +972-53-243438, +972-55-481245 KeyID: 0xD8DC85C7 Fingerprint: 138D 8F41 7A06 44A0 3DBB 9DC3 FE8B 2658 -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com mQEPAzLax/sAAAEIAK2bI8utornDYd5LdU+/TABNmqXneiXuLx4j8OKD2GjfS/O8 E6nrX69ot4uU5ryjp5h+7VHBZqCQz+8VC8ly2ANtycejAc82gllVC96fbA+Y6uuN uI9aXkwNqhphmmQZIVaOZDRAo9//1zX9r41xY+8rKSQuNcp+FPD/A5Itng0xhsfS KkCV4tT0mGpiydUHFrugk/bouXPYwUHXSnHp/mPdGsjgqipezHPzCWIn3xcJjk2/ tjd5/ym+arWpKW5nvTuvalcMi2DIcEilSrT5NLwgeuh3eqitYOc9WTiMNMvUiVcP sucJkdxNwjEX9MgD/bLY9wT/13brqxk71tjchccAEQEAAbQnQWRpciBBYnJhaGFt IDxhZGlyQHZpcGUudGVjaG5pb24uYWMuaWw+iQEVAwUQMtrH+6sZO9bY3IXHAQGb 0gf9FwrJBKaTP0yvf3+vwtB+9ftS0woz1TawJwflC5EoHJs7D/5GzkAaRV82RSkH P9fSHmM+LUB0huBBK1qtNyXHWIjQTmYwFYC8Oen4q0Fyze7cloSnpD1rVjI0HoCO UU8bbz0Iseizdjhnl2PTItQ+dkKzLcww1jW5iPXOWd1o8/8s2aebhrpDRO8BfAYg H29jhmDtuVQDPgFfkN/kP+xpHQplMN5Qh1oP22f+Wyg8sVvSv8P7cM+88u46FHi3 zvHpVnZKIBtKhksnH1PYXtz7FvS7vA+MbpM47kgmQGL5Ygig0pUUbBCGlzmg2Hvd 262YCdVYNwpIjQWBLJI8orea0Q== =dgNP -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Re: Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Adir Abraham wrote: So you're saying: fine! Let's install a system that can be eventually exploited for crackers to gain access on the machine and do all kinds of I'm the last person who says that. I say that we should give them a flexible machine, with simple security tweaks. Afterwards, we shall let them choose what they wish to do with it, at home (every case is personal, after all). You can't close their computer to the rest of the world, and let them think that Linux doesn't work in the Internet. However, you may tell them that their computer is vulnerable and they should do more (reading, checking, maybe even use some auto-configuration scripts...) in order to protect their systems. I'll try to give some of these concepts in my SiL lecture, btw. You also can't really defend them against crackers (unless you want to visit them on a daily basis and update their system every day). They should do so themselves, if they want (with Gentoo I would simply tell them to emerge world, but let's leave that aside ;). If we install the system sensibly, and close all incoming ports (maybe except ssh) we solve most of the vulnerability problems, even if people don't upgrade thier systems. Alon -- This message was sent by Alon Altman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ICQ:1366540 GPG public key at http://alon.wox.org/pubkey.txt Key fingerprint = A670 6C81 19D3 3773 3627 DE14 B44A 50A3 FE06 7F24 -- -=[ Random Fortune ]=- CONGRATULATIONS! Now should I make thinly veiled comments about DIGNITY, self-esteem and finding TRUE FUN in your RIGHT VENTRICLE?? -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] Re: InstaParty Thought - Buy/Receive the CD or Bust
Some people do, some people talk. Don't forget. Would *you* test mass deployment of Mandrake, as you say with such a clear voice RH sux, and Mandrake rulez. Sure, but I'll need some computers to test it on, as my father would kill me if I test it with our own computers. That's your problem, not mine. You like mandrake, you test and setup Mass Deployment. Sorry, but it's _our_ problem. If we can't install Mandrake we are stuck with the sub-standard Fedora. We're all in the same boat here. No. The moment you decided on a distro for everyone else is the moment this party became yours, and only yours, hence, you are to do the tests. Can anyone give me a couple of computers where I can test-drive KickStart for Mandrake? I have about 27 of them. No. I cannot give them, and no, I will not add network switches, not routers, nor anything else _you_ are to check. It is your party, your tests, and your mass deployment. I can hardly assume that two computers can make it up for a mass deployment tests. One as server and one as a client. Wow, it's working, and working fast. Now we can scale it up to a 40 computer setup. Regards, Shlomi Fish Ez. P.S - I use fedora, and I'm rather content with it. Works like a charm. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Haifux] RHN on Fedora stations
Hi, After re-installing our 12 linux stations in the students farm to Fedora Core 1, We need an automatic solution for the RHN up2date service for these 12 stations, Please advise, The demo version is for one station only. Thanks in advance Dita.
Re: [Haifux] RHN on Fedora stations
On Monday 02 February 2004 14:25, Dita Jacobovitz wrote: We need an automatic solution for the RHN up2date service for these 12 stations, One solution for up2date is 'current' (don't have the URL under my hand now) from Duke university (IIRC). Haven't tested lately, so YMMV. -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron Promises are like babies: fun to make, but hell to deliver. -- Nadav Har'El -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
