Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
On Friday June 16 2006 18:05, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > Umm... What's wrong with Gentoo's Hebrew support? I mean, yeah, okay, > Ubuntu's is better, but Gentoo's isn't BAD. Well, I never said it is BAD (tm). I like Gentoo. I run Gentoo everywhere I can. I just can hardly imagine myself bootstrapping Gentoo on 20 different machines simultaneously in the Linux day environment, even from stage3. It is, after all, a Linux _Day_. As for the hebrew support, I give you this as an example: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77751 Note the submission date... Speaking for myself only, there are at least twenty l10n/i18n bugs I am personally interested in, that are in solved state, but not inserted to portage. In my opinion, the sad situation when I have to sync on a dozen undead portage overlay servers to get what I want looks too much like what's going on with binary distros. Then I have my own local overlay which I have to update constantly. And don't get me wrong, I love code diving and rolling patches. I just don't like to do it when i know perfectly well that it's a waste of both my time and the time of hundreds, if not thousands of users that are doing the same. It was supposed to be a system of joined efforts, not the "every one for itself" jungle. Of course one can always waste another half an hour and find a solution on Gentoo bugzilla/forums, but let's not forget that the choice of that distribution was because of it's powerful package system, the almighty portage tree. -- Sincerely Yours, Michael Vasiliev "Program testing can be a very effective way to show the presence of bugs, but is hopelessly inadequate for showing their absence." -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
Umm... What's wrong with Gentoo's Hebrew support? I mean, yeah, okay, Ubuntu's is better, but Gentoo's isn't BAD. On 6/16/06, Michael Vasiliev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sunday June 11 2006 14:51, boazg wrote: > me and the farm crowd strongly stand behind ubuntu. First of all, it is very nice to hear that the "farm crowd" still exists. I certainly would like to hear more about it. > the 6.06 release takes > simple to a whole new level. it has hebrew, a new, much nicer, clearlooks > derivative theme, and apt is quite the leader in package management. > they;ve also put a frontend on apt simpler than synaptic for people who > want to save time. backed by automatix, a script making installation of > common non-ubuntu things (like swiftfox, or w32codecs), very simple, and by > HebUbuntu which sets up in one stroke most things needed for the israeli > crowd, i believe ubuntu will be the simplest most elegent choice. > and please tell me FC5 is nothing like RHEL4. It's better when it comes to managing the system without tribal dancing around it, but not that good if we speak about a beginner's box. It should come with a little adjustable headband cushion to protect you from all the rakes you are going to step on... I vote for Ubuntu, though I've never used it :) Well, not enough to call it a "use" really. I am a Gentoo guy myself, that's why I vote for another distro to be chosen :) Also, hebrew support is crucial, and with the lack of devs that care about it, it is not a strong side of Gentoo. -- Sincerely Yours, Michael Vasiliev Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To necessity... and beyond! Ohad Lutzky -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
On Sunday June 11 2006 14:51, boazg wrote: > me and the farm crowd strongly stand behind ubuntu. First of all, it is very nice to hear that the "farm crowd" still exists. I certainly would like to hear more about it. > the 6.06 release takes > simple to a whole new level. it has hebrew, a new, much nicer, clearlooks > derivative theme, and apt is quite the leader in package management. > they;ve also put a frontend on apt simpler than synaptic for people who > want to save time. backed by automatix, a script making installation of > common non-ubuntu things (like swiftfox, or w32codecs), very simple, and by > HebUbuntu which sets up in one stroke most things needed for the israeli > crowd, i believe ubuntu will be the simplest most elegent choice. > and please tell me FC5 is nothing like RHEL4. It's better when it comes to managing the system without tribal dancing around it, but not that good if we speak about a beginner's box. It should come with a little adjustable headband cushion to protect you from all the rakes you are going to step on... I vote for Ubuntu, though I've never used it :) Well, not enough to call it a "use" really. I am a Gentoo guy myself, that's why I vote for another distro to be chosen :) Also, hebrew support is crucial, and with the lack of devs that care about it, it is not a strong side of Gentoo. -- Sincerely Yours, Michael Vasiliev Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation. -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
On 6/11/06, Diego Iastrubni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nadav Har'El wrote: On the contrary - this is the STRONG side of Fedora. On every other distro, when the next version is released, the last release is unsupported. With Fedora, you have another year of updates, not security, but real updates, like new OpenOffice, a new Gnome, a new KDE, a new Kernel etc. What's the point of that? Upgrading packages in an existing distribution is necessarily limiting. Using new features to their full extent requires much changes, which will change things too much to be a simple upgrade. As far as simple upgrades go, they are rarely any better than security updates. Furthermore, in Debian-based distros, upgrading to the newest distribution is one command away. Taking Ubuntu as an example, when Dapper was released, the graphical update manager (same one which is used for security updates) had a big 'new version, click to upgrade' button. Clicked. Upgraded. DONE. New packages et al. -- To necessity... and beyond! Ohad Lutzky -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
Nadav Har'El wrote: My favorite distribution, and the one I use on my home computer, is Fedora Core. It comes with (or allows you to install through yum) almost everything imaginable, including Hebrew support. But, while yum makes it very easy to install new software and to keep your system up to date if you have an internet connection, But, yum install apt yum sux. sorry. lets move on. The problem with Fedora is that it is a real pain to upgrade. You need to get new CD-ROMs, and spend at least a full day on the upgrade process (which doesn't ask you any questions - just takes a lot of time). It's not hard, but very far from being fun either. If you choose not to upgrade (say, stay with Fedora Core 5 even when 6 comes out), after a year you start stop getting updates from yum. This is a downside in Fedora that needs to be considered. On the contrary - this is the STRONG side of Fedora. On every other distro, when the next version is released, the last release is unsupported. With Fedora, you have another year of updates, not security, but real updates, like new OpenOffice, a new Gnome, a new KDE, a new Kernel etc. I found some small things I did not like in Fedora, but this, is what I really like about it. I can recommend OpenSUSE 10.0. I heard mix reports about 10.1 and this is why I personally cannot recommend it. What is the status of Mandriva/Ehad 2006? -- Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org) To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
Some very important points which are critical for laptop users - any
distribution which we want to install on a laptop must support these.
1. Built-in support for IPW2200, firmware included. Installing these
is a lot of work manually.
2. Hibernation support
3. Support for special buttons (especially IBM)
4. Easy to use network manager which supports automatic network
configuration for DHCP, including wireless (e.g. network-manager)
Furthermore, having w32codecs and msttcorefonts being quick to install
(with the help of our installsmen) is important.
On 6/6/06, Adir Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
As usual I'm calling for your help, to choose the right distribution for
the crowd.
The population we aim to is the average person who wants everything to
work properly, with an easy update/install mechanism, easy installation
methods (has to be graphical, at least), and with a lot of support
("back"). We don't want Linux for a specific purpose, but we want to make
Happy Linux Users (because their machine is working properly, and not
because they can get support every second :).
Please stick to this and give me at least one advantage and at least one
disadvantage of the distribution of your choice.
For now, I am going to check (at least) Fedora Core 5, Ubuntu 6.06 and
Suse 10.1. Without any connection to the 3 distributions I've just
mentioned, I'll probably go to 3 directions: Linux for desktops, Linux for
servers (which will probably be on a DVD), and Linux in the pocket (some
live CD that works on a 8mm or i-cd).
So, please help me out here. Your comments are most welcome (including for
the distributions I mentioned).
Regards,
Adir.
--
Adir Abraham
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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To necessity... and beyond!
Ohad Lutzky
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Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
This is true for most distributions, methinks... notable exceptions
are Gentoo- and Debian- based ones.
On 6/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006, Adir Abraham wrote about "[Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the
right distribution":
> Hi,
>
> As usual I'm calling for your help, to choose the right distribution for
> the crowd.
My favorite distribution, and the one I use on my home computer, is Fedora
Core. It comes with (or allows you to install through yum) almost everything
imaginable, including Hebrew support.
But, while yum makes it very easy to install new software and to keep your
system up to date if you have an internet connection, But,
> The population we aim to is the average person who wants everything to
> work properly, with an easy update/install mechanism, easy installation
> methods (has to be graphical, at least), and with a lot of support
> ("back"). We don't want Linux for a specific purpose, but we want to make
The problem with Fedora is that it is a real pain to upgrade. You need to
get new CD-ROMs, and spend at least a full day on the upgrade process (which
doesn't ask you any questions - just takes a lot of time). It's not hard,
but very far from being fun either. If you choose not to upgrade (say, stay
with Fedora Core 5 even when 6 comes out), after a year you start stop getting
updates from yum.
This is a downside in Fedora that needs to be considered.
--
Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jun 11 2006, 15 Sivan 5766
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |We are Microsoft. You will be
http://nadav.harel.org.il |assimilated. Resistance is futile.
--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)
To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
To necessity... and beyond!
Ohad Lutzky
--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)
To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
me and the farm crowd strongly stand behind ubuntu. the 6.06 release takes simple to a whole new level. it has hebrew, a new, much nicer, clearlooks derivative theme, and apt is quite the leader in package management. they;ve also put a frontend on apt simpler than synaptic for people who want to save time. backed by automatix, a script making installation of common non-ubuntu things (like swiftfox, or w32codecs), very simple, and by HebUbuntu which sets up in one stroke most things needed for the israeli crowd, i believe ubuntu will be the simplest most elegent choice.
and please tell me FC5 is nothing like RHEL4.On 6/11/06, Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006, Adir Abraham wrote about "[Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution":
> Hi,>> As usual I'm calling for your help, to choose the right distribution for> the crowd.My favorite distribution, and the one I use on my home computer, is FedoraCore. It comes with (or allows you to install through yum) almost everything
imaginable, including Hebrew support.But, while yum makes it very easy to install new software and to keep yoursystem up to date if you have an internet connection, But,> The population we aim to is the average person who wants everything to
> work properly, with an easy update/install mechanism, easy installation> methods (has to be graphical, at least), and with a lot of support> ("back"). We don't want Linux for a specific purpose, but we want to make
The problem with Fedora is that it is a real pain to upgrade. You need toget new CD-ROMs, and spend at least a full day on the upgrade process (whichdoesn't ask you any questions - just takes a lot of time). It's not hard,
but very far from being fun either. If you choose not to upgrade (say, staywith Fedora Core 5 even when 6 comes out), after a year you start stop gettingupdates from yum.This is a downside in Fedora that needs to be considered.
--Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jun 11 2006, 15 Sivan 5766[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |We are Microsoft. You will behttp://nadav.harel.org.il |assimilated. Resistance is futile.--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing the right distribution
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006, Adir Abraham wrote about "[Haifux] Linux Day: Choosing
the right distribution":
> Hi,
>
> As usual I'm calling for your help, to choose the right distribution for
> the crowd.
My favorite distribution, and the one I use on my home computer, is Fedora
Core. It comes with (or allows you to install through yum) almost everything
imaginable, including Hebrew support.
But, while yum makes it very easy to install new software and to keep your
system up to date if you have an internet connection, But,
> The population we aim to is the average person who wants everything to
> work properly, with an easy update/install mechanism, easy installation
> methods (has to be graphical, at least), and with a lot of support
> ("back"). We don't want Linux for a specific purpose, but we want to make
The problem with Fedora is that it is a real pain to upgrade. You need to
get new CD-ROMs, and spend at least a full day on the upgrade process (which
doesn't ask you any questions - just takes a lot of time). It's not hard,
but very far from being fun either. If you choose not to upgrade (say, stay
with Fedora Core 5 even when 6 comes out), after a year you start stop getting
updates from yum.
This is a downside in Fedora that needs to be considered.
--
Nadav Har'El| Sunday, Jun 11 2006, 15 Sivan 5766
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |We are Microsoft. You will be
http://nadav.harel.org.il |assimilated. Resistance is futile.
--
Haifa Linux Club Mailing List (http://www.haifux.org)
To unsub send an empty message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
