Re: [Hampshire] "Gnome 2 is dead" (Was Re: Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists)

[Gordon Scott]

On 02/10/2012 06:36, Vic wrote:

But it is the case that upstream is not developing it anymore, isn't
it?

Yes. Spookily enough, that doesn't cause it to fail instantly.



So not so much Gnome 2 then,  as Gnome Twain  :-)

G.

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists

[Gordon Scott]

On 01/10/2012 21:36, Alan Pope wrote:

On 01/10/12 21:32, Gordon Scott wrote:

Can anyone say if 'upgrading' from 10.04 to 12.04 would result in a
default switch to Unity?


It will.

Frankly that is alarming, but also as I suspected, and precisely why I 
have not upgraded.


Have you any idea how disruptive that change would be if it were unexpected?

Do you have any idea how badly a change like that can be received?

I have already spent many hours trying to work out how to make Unity 
effective for me as my _work_ environment. Unity is already costing me 
time, and I don't yet even have it on my work machine.


Are there any nasty surprises in the upgrade from 10.04LTS server to 
12.04LTS server, without the GUI?  Hopefully with absolutely no bling at 
least that one should be relatively OK, though any upgrade is always a 
risk and challenge.



If it does, is it reasonably easy to get back to the previous
desktop?



GNOME 2 is dead. If you want to get something looking like your old 
desktop then there's GNOME Fallback mode (which as I understand will 
also soon be dead), XFCE or a myriad of other desktop environments.



I'm aware of Gnome Fallback, though I haven't tried it.
Unfortunately as my 10.04LTS laptop just smoked, I don't have a machine 
on which to try that out for real.


Does the upgrade process inform us of fallback, or better still offer it 
as an option?
Does it remain comparable to my present desktop, i.e., I don't waste 
hours or days betting back to something with which I can work.



The reason I'm on Ubuntu LTS was because I understood that there would 
be steady upgrade process and I hoped that that would minimise many of 
the disruptive changes that have happened in the past .. stupid things 
like a new blingy CD writer that doesn't work properly superseding the 
old drab one that did.


Change is very much a two-edged sword.  It needs to be for the better, 
and hopefully Unity will eventually turn out that way, or die, but 
change almost always also causes disruption, particularly if it's not 
carefully controlled.   At this moment, Unity feels a little like Ubuntu 
threw a grenade into the mix.  Yes, I know it's been around a year or 
so, but I ditched it back then as too profound a change. I'm trying to 
prepare for what seems presently to be an inevitable change, but at the 
moment that's feeling a bit of a struggle.   I'm still hoping I'll 
mellow.  I like Ubuntu, it's always been relatively painless to work 
with in the past.  Hopefully it will be again.


Gordon.


--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists

[Alan Pope]

Hi Gordon,

On 02/10/12 11:42, Gordon Scott wrote:

On 01/10/2012 21:36, Alan Pope wrote:

On 01/10/12 21:32, Gordon Scott wrote:

Can anyone say if 'upgrading' from 10.04 to 12.04 would result in a
default switch to Unity?


It will.


Frankly that is alarming, but also as I suspected, and precisely why I
have not upgraded.



What's alarming about upgrading a system and getting new stuff? It 
happens in all software "distributions". OS/2 2.x -> OS/2 Warp, Windows 
XP -> Windows 7, Android 2.x -> 3.x -> 4.x, Linux Mint 11 -> 12. Some 
more dramatic than others, granted.



Have you any idea how disruptive that change would be if it were
unexpected?



How would be unexpected? When you click "upgrade" to go from 10.04 to 
12.04 you are presented with release notes and a clear link to:-


http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/features

Which goes out of its way to detail what's new and funky in the later 
release.



Do you have any idea how badly a change like that can be received?



I recommend this book:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0091816971/ - "Who Moved My Cheese: 
An Amazing Way to Deal with Change in Your Work and in Your Life"



I have already spent many hours trying to work out how to make Unity
effective for me as my _work_ environment. Unity is already costing me
time, and I don't yet even have it on my work machine.



So don't use it. Use something else if it's that much of a bugbear for 
you. There's lots of different desktops in the repository. I'm sure one 
suits.



Are there any nasty surprises in the upgrade from 10.04LTS server to
12.04LTS server, without the GUI?


Not that I'm aware of. We generally don't go for "nasty surprises" in 
Ubuntu, either on the desktop or server. We tend to favour "new 
features" and "updated software".



 Hopefully with absolutely no bling at
least that one should be relatively OK, though any upgrade is always a
risk and challenge.



You say "bling" I say "beauty". Let's call the whole thing off.


Does the upgrade process inform us of fallback, or better still offer it
as an option?


No. However it's as easy as clicking this link once you've upgraded.

apt://gnome-session-fallback


Does it remain comparable to my present desktop, i.e., I don't waste
hours or days betting back to something with which I can work.



You want the world to stay the same, but upgrade nonetheless? Should we 
have all stayed on GNOME 1.x or perhaps CDE? :)



The reason I'm on Ubuntu LTS was because I understood that there would
be steady upgrade process and I hoped that that would minimise many of
the disruptive changes that have happened in the past .. stupid things
like a new blingy CD writer that doesn't work properly superseding the
old drab one that did.



That's a reasonable set of expectations. Nobody is forcing you to 
upgrade right now, are they? I mean, there may be software you need for 
your work which isn't available in 10.04, or there may be hardware which 
is only supported on a newer kernel?


But if you're on 10.04 then you've got until April next year before you 
need to think about "no more bug fixes and security updates on this 
release". Why not sit back and take stock of the changing world around 
you and make the step when you're ready?



 At this moment, Unity feels a little like Ubuntu
threw a grenade into the mix.  Yes, I know it's been around a year or
so, but I ditched it back then as too profound a change. I'm trying to
prepare for what seems presently to be an inevitable change, but at the
moment that's feeling a bit of a struggle.   I'm still hoping I'll
mellow.  I like Ubuntu, it's always been relatively painless to work
with in the past.  Hopefully it will be again.



I run 12.04 on my main machine and will probably stick with it for some 
time to come. I am enjoying 12.04 much more than any of the previous 
releases I've used. Each to their own though. I hope you find a desktop 
that suits you.


Cheers,
--
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

[Hampshire] PC available to good home

[Tim]

I have a couple of PC\server to go to a good home

SuperMicro 1u rack mount server, P4 2.8, 2x100gb ide hard disk, can't 
remember if it is 2gb or 4gb memory (more likely to be 2gb)


SuperMicro motherboard with twin 2ghz xeon, 4gb memory NO Hard Disk (may 
have a couple of 4gb to go with it), in a large tower case (not full 
server tower) c\w PSU. Might have SCSI raid card and hard disks


I also have 3 or 4 assorted PC  some running some just bits if anybody 
is looking for parts, drop me a line off list and I will dig out the spec.


All to be collected , I am located in the Kinson area of Bournemouth

Tim

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists

[Full Circle Podcast]

Gordon,
Popey probably won't thank me, but the answer may be gnome-session-fallback
atop any Ubuntu/Unity, which will give you a Gnome-2-like desktop with all
the other benefits of the 12.x releases (of which there are many.

I've already gone to 12.10 on my two main machines - okay, the Beta is
still a bit buggy in places, but so much better than 12.04, already.

I *can* work in Unity, I know what it's trying to provide, mostly I choose
not to use it; mainly because Unity seems to want to make me type more,
whereas Gnome menus do 80% of the things I want within 2 clicks and there's
the old Gnome search tool for files and ALT-f2 for everything else.

Look on the bright side, Mark Spaceshuttle could have copied Windows 8
NOT-Metro, Modern-UI, Tiles-thing for a desktop instead!

Overall I still think the Vancouver team book, Unity: Simplify Your
Lifeis
the best guide for the Unity doubter, and our Ubuntu and Unity Special
Edition is available from the main *Full
Circle*site.
-- 
Rgds
RC

Robin Catling
Full Circle Podcast

On 2 October 2012 16:06, Alan Pope  wrote:

> Hi Gordon,
>
> On 02/10/12 11:42, Gordon Scott wrote:
>
>> On 01/10/2012 21:36, Alan Pope wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/10/12 21:32, Gordon Scott wrote:
>>>
 Can anyone say if 'upgrading' from 10.04 to 12.04 would result in a
 default switch to Unity?

>>>
>>> It will.
>>>
>>>  Frankly that is alarming, but also as I suspected, and precisely why I
>> have not upgraded.
>>
>>
> What's alarming about upgrading a system and getting new stuff? It happens
> in all software "distributions". OS/2 2.x -> OS/2 Warp, Windows XP ->
> Windows 7, Android 2.x -> 3.x -> 4.x, Linux Mint 11 -> 12. Some more
> dramatic than others, granted.
>
>  Have you any idea how disruptive that change would be if it were
>> unexpected?
>>
>>
> How would be unexpected? When you click "upgrade" to go from 10.04 to
> 12.04 you are presented with release notes and a clear link to:-
>
> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/**features
>
> Which goes out of its way to detail what's new and funky in the later
> release.
>
>  Do you have any idea how badly a change like that can be received?
>>
>>
> I recommend this book:-
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/**product/0091816971/-
>  "Who Moved My Cheese: An Amazing Way to Deal with Change in Your Work and
> in Your Life"
>
>  I have already spent many hours trying to work out how to make Unity
>> effective for me as my _work_ environment. Unity is already costing me
>> time, and I don't yet even have it on my work machine.
>>
>>
> So don't use it. Use something else if it's that much of a bugbear for
> you. There's lots of different desktops in the repository. I'm sure one
> suits.
>
>  Are there any nasty surprises in the upgrade from 10.04LTS server to
>> 12.04LTS server, without the GUI?
>>
>
> Not that I'm aware of. We generally don't go for "nasty surprises" in
> Ubuntu, either on the desktop or server. We tend to favour "new features"
> and "updated software".
>
>   Hopefully with absolutely no bling at
>> least that one should be relatively OK, though any upgrade is always a
>> risk and challenge.
>>
>>
> You say "bling" I say "beauty". Let's call the whole thing off.
>
>  Does the upgrade process inform us of fallback, or better still offer it
>> as an option?
>>
>
> No. However it's as easy as clicking this link once you've upgraded.
>
> apt://gnome-session-fallback
>
>  Does it remain comparable to my present desktop, i.e., I don't waste
>> hours or days betting back to something with which I can work.
>>
>>
> You want the world to stay the same, but upgrade nonetheless? Should we
> have all stayed on GNOME 1.x or perhaps CDE? :)
>
>  The reason I'm on Ubuntu LTS was because I understood that there would
>> be steady upgrade process and I hoped that that would minimise many of
>> the disruptive changes that have happened in the past .. stupid things
>> like a new blingy CD writer that doesn't work properly superseding the
>> old drab one that did.
>>
>>
> That's a reasonable set of expectations. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade
> right now, are they? I mean, there may be software you need for your work
> which isn't available in 10.04, or there may be hardware which is only
> supported on a newer kernel?
>
> But if you're on 10.04 then you've got until April next year before you
> need to think about "no more bug fixes and security updates on this
> release". Why not sit back and take stock of the changing world around you
> and make the step when you're ready?
>
>   At this moment, Unity feels a little like Ubuntu
>> threw a grenade into the mix.  Yes, I know it's been around a year or
>> so, but I ditched it back then as too profound a change. I'm trying to
>> prepare for what seems presently to be an inevita

Re: [Hampshire] PC available to good home

[Tim]

On 02/10/12 21:17, Tim wrote:


I have a couple of PC\server to go to a good home

SuperMicro 1u rack mount server, P4 2.8, 2x100gb ide hard disk, can't 
remember if it is 2gb or 4gb memory (more likely to be 2gb)


SuperMicro motherboard with twin 2ghz xeon, 4gb memory NO Hard Disk 
(may have a couple of 4gb to go with it), in a large tower case (not 
full server tower) c\w PSU. Might have SCSI raid card and hard disks


I also have 3 or 4 assorted PC  some running some just bits if anybody 
is looking for parts, drop me a line off list and I will dig out the 
spec.


All to be collected , I am located in the Kinson area of Bournemouth

Tim


Supermicro has gone

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] PC available to good home

[Tim]

On 02/10/12 22:12, Tim wrote:

On 02/10/12 21:17, Tim wrote:


I have a couple of PC\server to go to a good home

SuperMicro 1u rack mount server, P4 2.8, 2x100gb ide hard disk, can't 
remember if it is 2gb or 4gb memory (more likely to be 2gb)


SuperMicro motherboard with twin 2ghz xeon, 4gb memory NO Hard Disk 
(may have a couple of 4gb to go with it), in a large tower case (not 
full server tower) c\w PSU. Might have SCSI raid card and hard disks


I also have 3 or 4 assorted PC  some running some just bits if 
anybody is looking for parts, drop me a line off list and I will dig 
out the spec.


All to be collected , I am located in the Kinson area of Bournemouth

Tim


Supermicro has gone


That should of read

Supermicro 1u has gone

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists

[Samuel Penn]

On Tuesday 02 October 2012 10:42:19 Gordon Scott wrote:
> On 01/10/2012 21:36, Alan Pope wrote:
> > On 01/10/12 21:32, Gordon Scott wrote:
> >> Can anyone say if 'upgrading' from 10.04 to 12.04 would result in a
> >> default switch to Unity?
> > 
> > It will.
> 
> Frankly that is alarming, but also as I suspected, and precisely why I
> have not upgraded.

The most obvious change from 11.04 to 12.04 was the font and
the style of the login screen (which now seems to be running
a Unity themed session manager rather than a KDE one).

Other than that, KDE seems to be pretty much the same on both
systems. I wasn't switched to Unity.

-- 
Be seeing you,Games: http://www.glendale.org.uk/
Sam.  Posts: http://www.google.com/profiles/samuel.penn


-- 
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists

[Gordon Scott]

On 02/10/12 16:06, Alan Pope wrote:

On 02/10/12 11:42, Gordon Scott wrote:


 At this moment, Unity feels a little like Ubuntu
threw a grenade into the mix.  Yes, I know it's been around a year or
so, but I ditched it back then as too profound a change. I'm trying to
prepare for what seems presently to be an inevitable change, but at the
moment that's feeling a bit of a struggle.   I'm still hoping I'll
mellow.  I like Ubuntu, it's always been relatively painless to work
with in the past.  Hopefully it will be again.




Interesting selective edit. You lost a bit.

Change is something I deal with all the time. Every working day!
I generally enjoy change provided it's manageable.

But I also had a period a few years back when change was so rapid and 
profound that eventually we 'slammed on the brakes' and took stock.  
What we concluded was that we'd spent four months getting from a system 
where mostly everything worked to a system where very little worked 
because it had all been broken by the changes on the changes. We'd done 
four months very hard work and had simply gone backwards.



Well, OK, I'm probably being over-sensitive at the moment. I'm feeling 
pretty stressed for a variety of reasons; I guess still here working now 
is one of those.  As I said earlier, I'm trying to warm to Unity, but at 
present it's being a bit of a royal pain.


Part of the reason I'm facing Unity right now is the smoked laptop I 
mentioned. That's forced a new install at very short notice whilst I'm 
under a heavy workload.  I presume I could still have installed 
10.04LTS, but the change will come and this is a chance to try get the 
new desktop in an arrangement where I feel I can work comfortable with 
it.  The Alt- problem last night wound me up quite a long way.


BTW, a big problem with animations is that they're so often in 
peripheral vision areas. If like me you wear varifocal glasses, you'll 
find that many of those animations are not just a big distraction, but 
because of the odd effects of the peripheral distortions can actually 
induce motion sickness.
They're also, therefore, _very_ tiring and stressful at the end of a 
long day.


Gordon.

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--

Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity - Dash - context lists

[Alan Pope]

On 02/10/12 23:18, Gordon Scott wrote:

On 02/10/12 16:06, Alan Pope wrote:

On 02/10/12 11:42, Gordon Scott wrote:


 At this moment, Unity feels a little like Ubuntu
threw a grenade into the mix.  Yes, I know it's been around a year or
so, but I ditched it back then as too profound a change. I'm trying to
prepare for what seems presently to be an inevitable change, but at the
moment that's feeling a bit of a struggle.   I'm still hoping I'll
mellow.  I like Ubuntu, it's always been relatively painless to work
with in the past.  Hopefully it will be again.




Interesting selective edit. You lost a bit.


It was your opinion. I have no opinion on your opinion, so I edited it 
out. :D


Cheers,
--
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/

--
Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire
LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk
--