Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
APC are based in Romsey, I had a faulty unit, there are fuses located inside the unit as well as the normal screw in type on the back. When my box became faulty I dropped in, I live very local and collected a repaired unit later that day, for pocket change money too. Simon -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On 08/03/13 11:25, Simon Whitehead wrote: APC are based in Romsey, I had a faulty unit, there are fuses located inside the unit as well as the normal screw in type on the back. When my box became faulty I dropped in, I live very local and collected a repaired unit later that day, for pocket change money too. Simon I'm certainly not without hope on this. I tend to prefer totally dead faults over misbehaviour ones as they often are easier to fix. Sounds like it's worth asking if the yjourney isn't too far. Cheers, Paul. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Hello, I got a new but open boxed APC backup-ups rs 800 VA UPS off ebay. Plugging it in there are no light when holding the power button down. Measuring the voltage on the terminal plugs gives me 4.7V when it outputs 14V when fully charged. After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin (170690) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On 7 March 2013 15:24, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Hello, I got a new but open boxed APC backup-ups rs 800 VA UPS off ebay. Plugging it in there are no light when holding the power button down. Measuring the voltage on the terminal plugs gives me 4.7V when it outputs 14V when fully charged. After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N For a new UPS, the battery will arrive disconnected. It is probably a old battery or a failed unit. Do any lights light on the unit? Is there any indication that power is getting to it? -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Lo, At 16:01 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 7 March 2013 15:24, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Hello, I got a new but open boxed APC backup-ups rs 800 VA UPS off ebay. Plugging it in there are no light when holding the power button down. Measuring the voltage on the terminal plugs gives me 4.7V when it outputs 14V when fully charged. After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N For a new UPS, the battery will arrive disconnected. Yes i have connected it myself. It is probably a old battery or a failed unit. The ups failed or failed battery? Do any lights light on the unit? No lights at all which worries me. Is there any indication that power is getting to it? Yes i have connected a radio to the surge outlets which works. The battery outlets do not work though :( Martin N Owner of the bwfc yahoogroup and Co-Moderator of MiniDisc and amithlonopen yahoo groups. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On 7 March 2013 16:07, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Do any lights light on the unit? No lights at all which worries me. Is there any indication that power is getting to it? Yes i have connected a radio to the surge outlets which works. The battery outlets do not work though :( You might have to resort to reading the manual. There is a reset switch on the back of the unit. Have you tried pressing it? The problem is most likely a faulty APC unit, and not a faulty battery. (reason: no lights on unit). The manual says this: If the internal battery cartridge is not connected (see Step 1 above), the green On Line indicator and red Replace Battery indicators will light. The Back-UPS will also emit a chirping sound -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Hello, At 16:26 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 7 March 2013 16:07, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Do any lights light on the unit? No lights at all which worries me. Is there any indication that power is getting to it? Yes i have connected a radio to the surge outlets which works. The battery outlets do not work though :( You might have to resort to reading the manual. There is a reset switch on the back of the unit. Have you tried pressing it? That is the sticking out pellet like button? Its wobbly and loose. The problem is most likely a faulty APC unit, and not a faulty battery. (reason: no lights on unit). The 2 surge ports work ok though. The manual says this: If the internal battery cartridge is not connected (see Step 1 above), the green On Line indicator and red Replace Battery indicators will light. The Back-UPS will also emit a chirping sound Hmm that does not sound good Martin N Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin (170690) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On 7 March 2013 16:35, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Hello, At 16:26 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 7 March 2013 16:07, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Do any lights light on the unit? No lights at all which worries me. Is there any indication that power is getting to it? Yes i have connected a radio to the surge outlets which works. The battery outlets do not work though :( You might have to resort to reading the manual. There is a reset switch on the back of the unit. Have you tried pressing it? That is the sticking out pellet like button? Its wobbly and loose. Check this on how to reset it. http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z7V3K/ASTE-6Z7V3K_R0_EN.pdf -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Hello, At 16:53 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 7 March 2013 16:35, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Hello, At 16:26 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 7 March 2013 16:07, Martin N marti...@bluebottle.com wrote: Do any lights light on the unit? No lights at all which worries me. Is there any indication that power is getting to it? Yes i have connected a radio to the surge outlets which works. The battery outlets do not work though :( You might have to resort to reading the manual. There is a reset switch on the back of the unit. Have you tried pressing it? That is the sticking out pellet like button? Its wobbly and loose. Check this on how to reset it. http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z7V3K/ASTE-6Z7V3K_R0_EN.pdf After looking at that manual, I have tried pressing it in but it doesn't stick/latch on to anything. Its not stiff so to me the circuit breaker is reset but i am inexperienced so cant be fully confident. Martin N Owner of the bwfc yahoogroup and Co-Moderator of MiniDisc and amithlonopen yahoo groups. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Hi, On 07/03/13 16:58, Martin N wrote: After looking at that manual, I have tried pressing it in but it doesn't stick/latch on to anything. Its not stiff so to me the circuit breaker is reset but i am inexperienced so cant be fully confident. Martin N Owner of the bwfc yahoogroup and Co-Moderator of MiniDisc and amithlonopen yahoo groups. This may be a really silly thing but my experience of UPS breakages on the road is that the most common fault is blown fuses. Most of our UPSes, in addition to the pop-breaker, have a small fuse holder built into the IEC inlet, the power cord and some also on the motherboard. If the USP gets seriously overloaded this fuse will often blow before (or at the same time as) the breaker pops. The usual scenario is that the hotel cleaner comes in, can't find a socket for the Hoover, sees this power strip, plugs in... Pop. beep.beep. Sneaks out and you have a dead UPS that won't charge when you plug it in. I know it's daft but it fixes 90% of the broken units people bring to me. Cheers, Paul. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On Thursday 07 Mar 2013 15:24:55 Martin N wrote: After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N Martin, I have aquired a Belkin unit with very identical symptoms. In my case one battery terminal had actually corroded and fallen off, so it was a pretty simple fault to find. Typically, the Lead acid batteries used will be 6Volt or 12Volt, sometimes wired in series to give 24Volts. Disconnect the battery(ies) and measure the voltage across them. If you are move than about two volts from the typical values above, it's likely that the battery is dead and needs replacement. There are places which sell replacement batteries on the web at reasonable prices. Cheers, Tim B. -- Hampshire Linux User Group Chairman -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Lo, At 17:43 07/03/2013, you wrote: Hi, On 07/03/13 16:58, Martin N wrote: After looking at that manual, I have tried pressing it in but it doesn't stick/latch on to anything. Its not stiff so to me the circuit breaker is reset but i am inexperienced so cant be fully confident. Martin N Owner of the bwfc yahoogroup and Co-Moderator of MiniDisc and amithlonopen yahoo groups. This may be a really silly thing but my experience of UPS breakages on the road is that the most common fault is blown fuses. Most of our UPSes, in addition to the pop-breaker, have a small fuse holder built into the IEC inlet, the power cord and some also on the motherboard. If the USP gets seriously overloaded this fuse will often blow before (or at the same time as) the breaker pops. Is this a black screw in thing? I seem to remember seeing one on an old UPS at a place i worked. There is not one on this unit but i could break it open and have a look. Martin N Running MorphOS v3.1 (July 2012) on a PowerPC Powerbook, Moderator of MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Lo, At 17:57 07/03/2013, you wrote: On Thursday 07 Mar 2013 15:24:55 Martin N wrote: After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N Martin, I have aquired a Belkin unit with very identical symptoms. Urgh this APC is to replace an old belkin 800VA unit that was badly designed. You had to bend open a metal cage to insert a replacement battery. Did it once and swore when the second battery went i would just get a new UPS. In my case one battery terminal had actually corroded and fallen off, so it was a pretty simple fault to find. Typically, the Lead acid batteries used will be 6Volt or 12Volt, sometimes wired in series to give 24Volts. Disconnect the battery(ies) and measure the voltage across them. If you are move than about two volts from the typical values above, it's likely that the battery is dead and needs replacement. Its 4.8V but they are not getting warm like i would expect a dead battery to do. IIRC. There are places which sell replacement batteries on the web at reasonable prices. Not really convinced yet that it is the battery. Martin N Running MorphOS v3.1 (July 2012) on a PowerPC Powerbook, Moderator of MiniDisc,amithlonopen,bwfc Yahoogroups -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On 07/03/13 18:23, Martin N wrote: Is this a black screw in thing? I seem to remember seeing one on an old UPS at a place i worked. There is not one on this unit but i could break it open and have a look. Most of the units I've come across recently have a small drawer built into the IEC socket, like this one http://www.sinolec.co.uk/iec-connectors/391-0717-cw.html Please note that page is a random google, not a recommendation for this supplier as I've never used them. Bests, Paul. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
On 07/03/13 18:26, Martin N wrote: Lo, At 17:57 07/03/2013, you wrote: On Thursday 07 Mar 2013 15:24:55 Martin N wrote: After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N Martin, I have aquired a Belkin unit with very identical symptoms. Urgh this APC is to replace an old belkin 800VA unit that was badly designed. You had to bend open a metal cage to insert a replacement battery. Did it once and swore when the second battery went i would just get a new UPS. In my case one battery terminal had actually corroded and fallen off, so it was a pretty simple fault to find. Typically, the Lead acid batteries used will be 6Volt or 12Volt, sometimes wired in series to give 24Volts. Disconnect the battery(ies) and measure the voltage across them. If you are move than about two volts from the typical values above, it's likely that the battery is dead and needs replacement. Its 4.8V but they are not getting warm like i would expect a dead battery to do. IIRC. If you unplug the UPS for a few minutes, connect the multimeter across the battery then power it up, do you see the terminal voltage rise? If the charger is charging, I would expect to see that. Cheers, Paul. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Hi, Is this the UPS you have? http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=br800itab=models Does this look like the correct manual for it? http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z7V5B/ASTE-6Z7V5B_R0_EN.pdf I'm just going through what I would check. I'm not sure of your level of experience and I hope you don't feel I'm insulting you. On 07/03/13 18:26, Martin N wrote: Not really convinced yet that it is the battery. Some times, batteries do go short and prevent gear from powering up. I recommend you disconnect the UPS then unplugging the battery. When you've done that, power the UPS up again. The manual says that if it is powered up with no battery, it should chirp and show the green (power) and red (replace battery) LEDs. If it doesn't do so with no battery connected, that eliminates a present battery short as the culprit. Next, I would eliminate all the silly D'Oh! problems. Check things like there are volts on the end of the IEC cable and that you're pressing the power button for the right length or time. (You did mention holding the button down. The manual seems to suggest that a short press is on and a 10 second hold is programming mode) When you press the power button, do you feel the switch behind it click? The switch is subject to mechanical force. Have the solder joints that fix the switch onto the board broken? Next I would look for fuses inside and bad connections (also do a nose-test for brown smell). I always hope things like this are something simple like loose/corroded connections, broken wires fractured solder joints on things like the back of the IEC input. I know fault finding why a switched-mode inverter isn't oscillating is beyond me. Cheers, Paul. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Hello, At 19:00 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 07/03/13 18:23, Martin N wrote: Is this a black screw in thing? I seem to remember seeing one on an old UPS at a place i worked. There is not one on this unit but i could break it open and have a look. Most of the units I've come across recently have a small drawer built into the IEC socket, like this one http://www.sinolec.co.uk/iec-connectors/391-0717-cw.html Please note that page is a random google, not a recommendation for this supplier as I've never used them. Thanks for that link it was interesting to see. I have had a look and there is no fuse draw sadly. This is the old link on amazon for my model: http://www.amazon.co.uk/APC-Back-UPS-RS-800VA-UPS/dp/B00013MRS4/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=apsie=UTF8qid=1362684739sr=1-1-catcorr Sadly no rear view Martin N Owner of the bwfc yahoogroup and Co-Moderator of MiniDisc and amithlonopen yahoo groups. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
Lo, At 19:02 07/03/2013, you wrote: On 07/03/13 18:26, Martin N wrote: Lo, At 17:57 07/03/2013, you wrote: On Thursday 07 Mar 2013 15:24:55 Martin N wrote: After an hours charge i get 4.8V but that could be corrosion on connectors or my cheapo multimeter. So if the UPS dead? battery dead? How long does the lead acid battery last in storage? Any advice on how i can test things further? thanks for your time Martin N Martin, I have aquired a Belkin unit with very identical symptoms. Urgh this APC is to replace an old belkin 800VA unit that was badly designed. You had to bend open a metal cage to insert a replacement battery. Did it once and swore when the second battery went i would just get a new UPS. In my case one battery terminal had actually corroded and fallen off, so it was a pretty simple fault to find. Typically, the Lead acid batteries used will be 6Volt or 12Volt, sometimes wired in series to give 24Volts. Disconnect the battery(ies) and measure the voltage across them. If you are move than about two volts from the typical values above, it's likely that the battery is dead and needs replacement. Its 4.8V but they are not getting warm like i would expect a dead battery to do. IIRC. If you unplug the UPS for a few minutes, connect the multimeter across the battery then power it up, do you see the terminal voltage rise? If the charger is charging, I would expect to see that. The battery is very well insulated and the only contacts are with the captive cable plugging into a socket in the UPS. There are no exposed terminals on the battery and the socket is recessed so i cant get my probes down there. Thanks for the ideas though Martin N Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin (170690) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] APC UPS advice please
hi, At 19:27 07/03/2013, you wrote: Hi, Is this the UPS you have? http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=br800itab=models Yes that is correct although it does say RS on mine which is present on the imag if not the title. The layout at the back and front is the same. Does this look like the correct manual for it? http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z7V5B/ASTE-6Z7V5B_R0_EN.pdf I'm just going through what I would check. I'm not sure of your level of experience and I hope you don't feel I'm insulting you. No problem, I could of missed something obvious so I rather be insulted than miss something :) On 07/03/13 18:26, Martin N wrote: Not really convinced yet that it is the battery. Some times, batteries do go short and prevent gear from powering up. I recommend you disconnect the UPS then unplugging the battery. When you've done that, power the UPS up again. The manual says that if it is powered up with no battery, it should chirp and show the green (power) and red (replace battery) LEDs. If it doesn't do so with no battery connected, that eliminates a present battery short as the culprit. done and no leds light or chirping. Next, I would eliminate all the silly D'Oh! problems. Check things like there are volts on the end of the IEC cable and that you're pressing the power button for the right length or time. (You did mention holding the button down. The manual seems to suggest that a short press is on and a 10 second hold is programming mode) When you press the power button, do you feel the switch behind it click? The switch is subject to mechanical force. Have the solder joints that fix the switch onto the board broken? No click. The button feels ok and doesnt wobbly too much for a cheaply made UPS. Next I would look for fuses inside and bad connections (also do a nose-test for brown smell). I always hope things like this are something simple like loose/corroded connections, broken wires fractured solder joints on things like the back of the IEC input. I know fault finding why a switched-mode inverter isn't oscillating is beyond me. I could break it open but googling seems to say it requires a lot of force as click snap plastic rather than screws for the front panel. It also says not too hard as you will remove the led cable. Leaving me not knowing how hard to try. I guess with the surge working I dont want to kill it completely as I can always use it for that. (I would expect the surge protection on the 2 outlets are better quality than surge on a standard extension block) The led cable being detached shouldnt affect the surge protection it provides. Probably worth a try prizing it off. thanks for your time Martin N Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin (170690) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
