Re: [Hardhats-members] Changeing/Activating PORT 9200 on the VistaLinuxServer
Okay, just one more response. When you get right down to it, the point I was trying to make is that polling in basically I/O (even if the device you are reading is shared memory) and I/O is expensive, much more so than most people (including programmers) realize. The nice thing about asynchronous I/O (not supported in standard MUMPS) is that it eliminates the need for almost busy waiting, and instead uses asynchronous notification mechanisms (like signals) to notify a process when a device has become ready. This is not exactly the same issue, but trying to read from a socket periodically in hopes that data will be available is particularly bad. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The most profound technologies are those that disappear. --Mark Weiser --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Changeing/Activating PORT 9200 on the VistaLinuxServer
Greg; Actually, the HANG is a reasonable alternative, but a better solution might be a timed READ. The time slice can be reclaimed upon the reception of an I/O, otherwise, the time slice is released to others. Subsequent global reads are usually satisfied from Cache and don't have the big overhead of a physical IO. Usually only the first one is expensive, subsequent accesses are cheap until the value changes (a WRITE always results in a physical IO, eventually, but may be clustered with other changes in the vacinity depending on the Cache flush algorythms). When you start talking about one node in a cluster serving as a LOCK Manager, then the rules are a bit different. The READ must be validated by the LOCK Manager who coordinates the global access for the cluster. - Original Message - From: Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Changeing/Activating PORT 9200 on the VistaLinuxServer This is what I would have expected, at least on any systems where MUMPS jobs are implemented as native threads or processes, but not that many years ago, I've heard that people have reported finding otherwise. But be that as it may, yielding the processor isn't the only issue. You still don't want to wake up and perform an (albeit global) I/O operation every second. I/O is still expensive, and not yielding control of the processor (as was an issue in older Windows and even Java implementations) isn't the only issue here. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The policy of being too cautious is the greatest risk of all. --Jawaharlal Nehru On Jul 29, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Jim Self wrote: This is a non-issue in MUMPS implementations that I have worked with in recent years, even a HANG of only one second in such a loop is sufficient to prevent it from consuming significant processing time while idle. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] (no subject)
I will be out of the office from Monday 8/1 through Friday 8/5. If you need immediate assistance please contact your Quatrex client representative. Thank you. Bill Soler Quatrex Technical Support 800.446.3393 ext. 87 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Access Code
Zeno; My appologies. You were using the wiki. Excellent. Wlcome to the community. It is going to be an interesting few years. Best wishes; Chris - Original Message - From: Zeno Davatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Access Code Thanks for the input! Sure, I'm already putting all the questions and ansers I understand into the WIKI: http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=User_talk:Zeno I just put it in my User Talk section as I'm still working on it (nothing final yet). Once I get the process and the feeling more deeply than I could also build a separate FAQ. I will keep posting the links to my questions and the great anwers I get from this list. Best Zeno On 7/29/05, Chris Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeno; A couple of suggestions; 1) DUZ is a pointer into the NEW PERSON File, file 200 (aka, ^VA(200,DUZ,0)), and you have set it to .01. While .01 could actually be a user, it is probably not an interactive user (such as POSTMASTER .5). If you are running GTM try this; ZWR ^VA(200,*,0) Now pick someone already established to set your DUZ to. If you are at the prompt, you have great power, but with that comes great responsibility. You can see the different roles these people play (what menus they have access to). This can keep you busy for a while. Once you find someone with access to EVE, then you can go in and create a new user using the menus. 2) If you are building an FAQ, could I suggest that you put it out on the wiki so that others might benefit from your lessons learned and then they can also add their lessons learned? This would be a great way of giving back to the community. Best wishes; Chris - Original Message - From: Zeno Davatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Access Code Hmm, this I do not understand yet; when I do: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ FOIAVistA/vista --run GTMS DUZ=.01 GTMD ^XUP Setting up programmer environment This is a TEST account. Select TERMINAL TYPE NAME: ? Answer with TERMINAL TYPE NAME How would I add a User? I can not see any options? Thanks Zeno On 7/28/05, Kevin Toppenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeno, You should establish a user for yourself. That user will have an access code and verify code (same as a login and password combo). So do ^XUP -- option EVE-user-add user Then, on the user editing pages, set the access code to your choice of words. Then, next time you d ^XUP, you can use your new access code. Kevin --- Zeno Davatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do I set the Access code? Do I need to run GTMS DUZ=.01 everytime before I want to configure something with GTMD Q^DI Thanks Zeno --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven
Re: [Hardhats-members] You must have a valid DUZ!
Bhaskar; I am getting to this question a little late, but there are good reasons for doing things this way for the VA. Over the years, we have run on a number of platforms and the most consistant means of maintaining the user population was to drop the production user diretly into our internal MUMPS environment as quickly as possible and not letting the users at the operating system. From the MUMPS level, the user is using the system at the CHUI (CHaracter User Interface) level. It is almost impossible for a malicious user to load anything executable (it can be done with some very clever code, but that would be very difficult and rare). Also the interface with different operating systems can be very confusing. Not forcing the users to use the local OS, they get everything done in the VistA MUMPS environment which is more consistant between the different implementations. - Original Message - From: K.S. Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] You must have a valid DUZ! Comments below. I know that the VA doesn't have separate user ids for each user at the operating system level, but I don't know why. [Anyone know?] In any case, best security practices today are not to have shared user ids, and in the context of medical practices which may not have the same level of physical access control as a VA facility, I would suggest stronger access controls. -- Bhaskar On Fri, 2005-07-29 at 09:56 -0500, Mike Lieman wrote: On 7/29/05, K.S. Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike -- I looked at the document. There's no need to create a separate gtm user. Each user can just login with his/her own user id. I thought that through, and decided I wanted the GT.M files owned by a user other than root. 'oracle' owns the oracle files, 'mysql' own the mysql files, 'qmail' owns the qmail files. [KSB] My recommendation is to create a user and a group for each VistA instance, i.e., if you have production instances for St. Mungo's Hospital and the Azkaban Infirmary on your server, then create two groups, azkaban and stmungos, and a user azkaban in the azkaban group and a user stmungos in the stmungos group. These users will own the database and journal files as well as the directories they are in, and processes with these userids will be used for operations (e.g., backup) but not normal VistA usage. As a further security precaution, you can permit someone to su to them, but prevent anyone logging in as users azkaban or stmungos. Give each VistA user his/her own userid, assigned to the group where s/he practices. Special consultants affiliated with both institutions can belong to both groups. The database files, journal files, and directories would have permissions set to be user and group writable, but neither readable nor writable by anyone else. Shared globals that are not normally updated, e.g., the National Drug formulary, would be in a separate directory that is world readable, but writable by none. I'll *likely* have a single VistA user, since VistA itself has a very robust user maintenance/signon model. ( And I expect most usage to be with the Windows client... ). It may be helpful if you download the GT.M Acculturation live CD from http://sourceforge.net/projects/sanchez-gtm and work through the examples. Thanks for the link! I'll try to get to it over the weekend, but no promises! --- SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference EXPO September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices Agile Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects Teams * Testing QA Security * Process Improvement Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] On portability
Here, here - well stated. One thing that needs repeating is that one of VistA's initial design specifications (and one that still exists) is that ALL application code be implementation and platform independent. M vendors and OS vendors may not prefer that the VA have been so insistent on this point. The VA was heavy pointing the M vendors in the area of Structured System Variables (SSVNs) within MDC prior to the end of MDC for this very purpose. Please, Please do not take this response as a voice for the resurrection of MDC. Without a strong M vendor market, reviving MDC would not be in anyone's interests. - Original Message - From: Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hardhats hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:58 PM Subject: [Hardhats-members] On portability It's been said that computer science is the science of trade-offs (time vs. space, clarity vs. efficiency, bandwidth vs. delay, read time vs. write time, etc.) Portability is simply another area where you end up making some sacrifices (e.g., in direct mapping of operations affecting files, processes and so forth to operating system primitives) to achieve another goal. Bhaskar has rightly pointed out that the I/O and process models on different systems vary from one another, sometimes significantly. What is to be done? One option is to write system specific on every platform. This is not unreasonable, but it is not without cost. On the positive side, I/O and interprocess communication can be very efficient. On the negative side, porting your software from one platform to another can require a significant (even very significant) amount of work. Introducing common abstractions that work the same way on all platforms is another option. On the positive side, it is only necessary write your code once and, in theory, run it anywhere the platform is supported. On the negative side, your code may be slower, not just due to the overhead adapting to the interface, but due to the problem of writing libraries that may need to perform complex manipulations to get different systems to look the same. An additional problem is that your code will almost certainly not have the same degree of flexibility as code written in C or another language providing direct system access. You may often find there are things you want to do, and which you know are supported at the operating system level, but which simply are not supported in the language you use. So, where do you strike the balance? There is no one right answer (which is probably why we have so many programming languages to choose from). Ultimmately, it comes down to looking at the competing goals of speed, flexibility, robustness, system footprint, price, and market share (Do you want something that will only run a 6 CPU Dodekium running MAXIX?) === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure failure. --Kent Beck --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Pointers and keys
The new style cross reference was the key I meant to reference in the original post. I should have been clearer in that reference. The unique ID we create in the SD appointment is a number commonly called charge slip number in our practice. It may be used an ID for numerous activities. DOT(truckers exam) General physical Spirometry Audiometry, Lab tests , Xray, etc Injury visit (Workers Compensation) And the list can be as long as your imagination. We need some way to bind that all together in a common identification that everyone may use to reference activity that typically occurs on a unique date. Another way we could do this is let the date, combined with a new style cross reference creating a unique ID, handle the uniqueness. I have been using the above scheme since 1970, always hoping to find a better method. So far, I always wind up back at the charge slip# as the method. I was hoping to fine something better this time around. This time I was hoping to use the new styled cross reference (created with combination of charge slip# and patient name or date) as the unique ID. Backward pointer was a considered to reference (from patient file) anything pointing to patient and typically used only in reports. Sort patient file and address the DOT exams pointing to a unique patient not a burning need. I am sill listening. Thanks, thurman From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregory Woodhouse Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:05 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Pointers and keys There are applications that use semantically meaningful values for the IEN, but I don't recommend doing this. In fact, I would recommend rather strongly that you do not do this. However, you CAN ensure that a field such as .01 be unique. You need to create new style cross-reference, and this will be done automatically for you if you make this field into a key. Being clever is seldom a good idea, but you can even make the B cross-reference the uniqueness index underlying the key if you really want to. I don't know if this is responsive to your question, but I've worked with a number of files that attempt to have semantically meaningful .01 fields, and that really buys you very little and does cause a bunch of grief in the long run. Can you explain a little more what you mean by backward pointer. Are you wanting to quickly identify the (sub)records in another file pointing a record in your file? === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Thurman Pedigo wrote: With so much excitement, I hate to post such a mundane question as pointers and keys. However, I have never been able to get KEYs to perform in the way I expect. I want to have file TESTFILE point to field .01 of another file so that I can use backward pointers. Further I would like to create a record in the file with a unique # to main the uniqueness of multiple instances of the same name in .01 field of the file. It seems I should be able to enter a unique # such as 12345 without having to encapsulate a new entry as the name file in quotes. For instance if the name is DOE,JOHN in the referenced field, I would like to enter 12346 (in field #2) to create a unique entry, then enter DOE,JOHN in field .01, separate from the first record than the 12345 and still allow the .01 field in this record to exist as DOE,JOHN . Is this workable? Or is this just bad policy? I know this is sort of confused and will be difficult to sort out. Basically, I want to have field 2 as the UNIQUE ID for each record in TESTFILE, and .01 field point to a sort of parent file. Thanks, thurman
[Hardhats-members] (no subject)
I will be out of the office from Monday 8/1 through Friday 8/5. If you need immediate assistance please contact your Quatrex client representative. Thank you. Bill Soler Quatrex Technical Support 800.446.3393 ext. 87 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
Has any VA representatives without conflicts of interests taken the test to certify that the test has no implicit biases and that the test does accurately measure what it is intended to do? - Original Message - From: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST In preparation for the upcoming release of VistA-Office EHR, the VistA-Office EHR Vendor Support Organization (VVSO) is offering vendors with demonstrated expertise the opportunity to qualify for inclusion on the VistA-Office EHR Vendor List. To qualify, vendors must take a test to demonstrate their ability to install, configure, use, and support VistA-Office EHR. Interested vendors may register at http://www.vistasupport.org:3080/wv/vvso/add to take the test. It is strongly recommended that vendors without previous VistA experience do not take this test. The VVSO will offer training later this year for vendors wishing to improve their VistA skills. Registered vendors will receive the test questions and instructions. Those who pass the test will be listed on the VistA-Office EHR Vendor List webpage when it goes public. The VistA-Office EHR Vendor List will help clinics, doctors, and nurses who are interested in installing VistA-Office EHR find vendors qualified to help them install, configure, and support the software. Contact: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] SSH, Rsync communication between CPRS WindwosClient and OpenVistaServer
On 7/29/05, Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't repeat this often enough: TCP/IP facilities in MUMPS are very primitive, so programmers will always find themselves relying on ad hoc mechanisms such as this. Ok, now this is quite nice I guess. In my personal opinion OpenVistaServer is quite lucky to still only have very primitive TCP/IP facilities. To me that means the way to go is still very open! So I would like to take this opportunity to make a suggestion or ask a few questions: Why not focus on a modern OpenSource Technology/ Protocol that Linux is building on/with as well; like Rsync, SSH, GPG? With Rsync, SSH and GPG you get security, speed and reliability and another good community connection, that I'm sure is willing to provide thier technology for the OpenVista Server. I believe that the connection between client (ie Windwos GUI) and server (ie Linux) will be one of the very most _utmost_ used basic features in OpenVista. Just making that connection work reliably will lay the foundation for many User Stories and services. Imagine the data of a patient being transfered encrypted over the network to the computer of another doctor (ie. via the internet or the local network). With GPG these connections can always be made encrypted for every single user. I can tell from what I have seen in Switzerland, that the PGP (GPG in Linux) encryption works very well for encrypting and transferring patient data over the network, local or internet. What I do not like about the solution in Switzerland is, that the solutions provider is a) just on company not going open source and b) not yet thinking too much in Open Standards. Also the actual software running on the doctors desktop does not yet connect that well with encryption technology that transfers the data over the internet for example to the insurance company. With a small markets as Switzerland (8 Mio population) that may work in the beginning but not for the long run. That is why I'm so interested in OpenVista ;)! Thanks Zeno --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] SSH, Rsync communication between CPRS WindwosClient and OpenVistaServer
With the new version of the Broker it is possible to tunnel the connection securely between the client and server on Linux at least, and although I have not investigated this with Cache, I assume since Open SSH can be run on Windows, the same should be true in that setting. On Saturday 30 July 2005 08:17 am, Zeno Davatz wrote: On 7/29/05, Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't repeat this often enough: TCP/IP facilities in MUMPS are very primitive, so programmers will always find themselves relying on ad hoc mechanisms such as this. Ok, now this is quite nice I guess. In my personal opinion OpenVistaServer is quite lucky to still only have very primitive TCP/IP facilities. To me that means the way to go is still very open! So I would like to take this opportunity to make a suggestion or ask a few questions: Why not focus on a modern OpenSource Technology/ Protocol that Linux is building on/with as well; like Rsync, SSH, GPG? With Rsync, SSH and GPG you get security, speed and reliability and another good community connection, that I'm sure is willing to provide thier technology for the OpenVista Server. I believe that the connection between client (ie Windwos GUI) and server (ie Linux) will be one of the very most _utmost_ used basic features in OpenVista. Just making that connection work reliably will lay the foundation for many User Stories and services. Imagine the data of a patient being transfered encrypted over the network to the computer of another doctor (ie. via the internet or the local network). With GPG these connections can always be made encrypted for every single user. I can tell from what I have seen in Switzerland, that the PGP (GPG in Linux) encryption works very well for encrypting and transferring patient data over the network, local or internet. What I do not like about the solution in Switzerland is, that the solutions provider is a) just on company not going open source and b) not yet thinking too much in Open Standards. Also the actual software running on the doctors desktop does not yet connect that well with encryption technology that transfers the data over the internet for example to the insurance company. With a small markets as Switzerland (8 Mio population) that may work in the beginning but not for the long run. That is why I'm so interested in OpenVista ;)! Thanks Zeno --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=Click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
Steve, Please take the test and tell us if you believe there are biases in it. If you feel there are any we will address them. Our objective is to include as many qualified vendors as possible. Cheers, Joseph smcphelan wrote: Has any VA representatives without conflicts of interests taken the test to certify that the test has no implicit biases and that the test does accurately measure what it is intended to do? - Original Message - From: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST In preparation for the upcoming release of VistA-Office EHR, the VistA-Office EHR Vendor Support Organization (VVSO) is offering vendors with demonstrated expertise the opportunity to qualify for inclusion on the VistA-Office EHR Vendor List. To qualify, vendors must take a test to demonstrate their ability to install, configure, use, and support VistA-Office EHR. Interested vendors may register at http://www.vistasupport.org:3080/wv/vvso/add to take the test. It is strongly recommended that vendors without previous VistA experience do not take this test. The VVSO will offer training later this year for vendors wishing to improve their VistA skills. Registered vendors will receive the test questions and instructions. Those who pass the test will be listed on the VistA-Office EHR Vendor List webpage when it goes public. The VistA-Office EHR Vendor List will help clinics, doctors, and nurses who are interested in installing VistA-Office EHR find vendors qualified to help them install, configure, and support the software. Contact: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members . --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
I do plan on taking the test. I have not talked to anyone else at DSS, but I assume DSS will be participating. But I could not publicly state that without first checking with the president of the company. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
On 7/30/05, Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve,Please take the test and tell us if you believe there are biases in it.If you feel there are any we will address them. Our objective is toinclude as many qualified vendors as possible. Not to be overly critical, but was releasing the exam on Friday, July 29th with a deadline of Sunday, July 31st, poorly thought out, and counter to that objective? Now, if the cycle time for updating the list is a day or two, that's not a problem. But who really wants to deal with this over the weekend?
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
Joseph, Whew, that a hefty download. When I initially downloaded to program and open the Excel spreadsheet I got some errors that kicked me off Excel with a trouble report generated. I will try and download from another site. Stephen K. Miyasato Pacific Telehealth and Technology Hui - Original Message - From: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 3:21 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST Steve, Please take the test and tell us if you believe there are biases in it. If you feel there are any we will address them. Our objective is to include as many qualified vendors as possible. Cheers, Joseph smcphelan wrote: Has any VA representatives without conflicts of interests taken the test to certify that the test has no implicit biases and that the test does accurately measure what it is intended to do? - Original Message - From: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST In preparation for the upcoming release of VistA-Office EHR, the VistA-Office EHR Vendor Support Organization (VVSO) is offering vendors with demonstrated expertise the opportunity to qualify for inclusion on the VistA-Office EHR Vendor List. To qualify, vendors must take a test to demonstrate their ability to install, configure, use, and support VistA-Office EHR. Interested vendors may register at http://www.vistasupport.org:3080/wv/vvso/add to take the test. It is strongly recommended that vendors without previous VistA experience do not take this test. The VVSO will offer training later this year for vendors wishing to improve their VistA skills. Registered vendors will receive the test questions and instructions. Those who pass the test will be listed on the VistA-Office EHR Vendor List webpage when it goes public. The VistA-Office EHR Vendor List will help clinics, doctors, and nurses who are interested in installing VistA-Office EHR find vendors qualified to help them install, configure, and support the software. Contact: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members . --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] (no subject)
I will be out of the office from Monday 8/1 through Friday 8/5. If you need immediate assistance please contact your Quatrex client representative. Thank you. Bill Soler Quatrex Technical Support 800.446.3393 ext. 87 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
On 7/30/05, Stephen K. Miyasato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whew, that a hefty download. When I initially downloaded to program and openthe Excel spreadsheet I got some errors that kicked me off Excel with atrouble report generated. I will try and download from another site. I got 191 rows in a workbook with 3 worksheets, #2 and #3 empty, right? If you're not distributing this with detatched gpg signatures (Hint, Hint) then how about at least a md5sum or sha1sum, so at the end of the download, it can be verified. Unsigned and unverified executables suck.
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
Mike, To clarify the deadline, our goal is tocreate a list of Vendors in time for the impending release of VistA Office EHR. Any replies to the test that arrive after Sunday will be assessed, and if succesfully completed, posted within two days of receipt. Regards, Joseph Program Manager, VVSO WorldVistA Mike Lieman wrote: On 7/30/05, *Joseph Dal Molin* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, Please take the test and tell us if you believe there are biases in it. If you feel there are any we will address them. Our objective is to include as many qualified vendors as possible. Not to be overly critical, but was releasing the exam on Friday, July 29th with a deadline of Sunday, July 31st, poorly thought out, and counter to that objective? Now, if the cycle time for updating the list is a day or two, that's not a problem. But who really wants to deal with this over the weekend? --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Announcing the VistA Office EHR Discussion Forum
Dear Hardhats List Members, The WorldVistA VVSO has created a discussion forum specific to VistA Office EHR. Please post all messages relating to VistA Office EHR to this list. The exception being technical questions relating to VistA infrastructure issues, such as Fileman, Taskman etc. which should continue to be directed to the Hardhats list. We are creating this list with the full support of the HardHats list administrators, partly to address the anticipated significant increas in traffic and diversity of messages expected with the launch of VistA Office EHR. To subscribe to the new list, go to: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vista-officeehr-forum Thank you, Joseph Dal Molin Program Manager, VVSO WorldVistA --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] == Learning MUMPS ==
Maybe I should get myself a copy just on principle. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Jul 29, 2005, at 1:37 PM, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: [KSB] I too recommend Prof. Walters' book (the newer one, circa 1996, not the older one). --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] VISTA-OFFICE EHR VENDOR TEST
On 7/30/05, Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike,To clarify the deadline, our goal is tocreate a list of Vendors intime for the impending release of VistA Office EHR. Any replies to thetest that arrive after Sunday will be assessed, and if succesfully completed, posted within two days of receipt.Two days is an excellent target. Thanks for the quick reply. Mike
RE: [Hardhats-members] Announcing the VistA Office EHR Discussion Forum
Why are we splitting lists? I'm treating Hardhats as The VistA resource outside of the VA. Does furthering VistA outside of the VA involve infrastructure vs support? Do the people that would respond to Taskman questions not want to hear about setting up DUZ=1 before entering Fileman? To me - they're related. The same person that answers that question twice will help build the resource (Wiki) for FAQs (as we all are), etc. Then when all the easy questions are answered (which they will), do they go here for the really tough stuff? Wouldn't they go to the Wiki first and we just remind them on that on their first newb post? Before you reply - give this long (but great) article a read: http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html If you don't want to read it all, jump down to Part Three: What Can We Take for Granted? (hint: use the browser's find text tool) I think we're all well connected to each other and contribute to this thing we've come to love. If someone can explain to me why I don't want to hear about installing VistA - tell me - because I'm listening and I'm seeing new and exciting things growing up all around me. [And then tell me what Hardhats is for again?] David Sommers, Architect -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Dal Molin Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:12 PM To: hardhats Subject: [Hardhats-members] Announcing the VistA Office EHR Discussion Forum Dear Hardhats List Members, The WorldVistA VVSO has created a discussion forum specific to VistA Office EHR. Please post all messages relating to VistA Office EHR to this list. The exception being technical questions relating to VistA infrastructure issues, such as Fileman, Taskman etc. which should continue to be directed to the Hardhats list. We are creating this list with the full support of the HardHats list administrators, partly to address the anticipated significant increas in traffic and diversity of messages expected with the launch of VistA Office EHR. To subscribe to the new list, go to: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vista-officeehr-forum Thank you, Joseph Dal Molin Program Manager, VVSO WorldVistA --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] (no subject)
Must - buy - Qautrex - and - call - for - support. Don't - know - why. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77alloc_id492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] == Learning MUMPS ==
I did. As well as Lewkowicz's Book, to boot. - Original Message - From: Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] == Learning MUMPS == Maybe I should get myself a copy just on principle. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Jul 29, 2005, at 1:37 PM, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: [KSB] I too recommend Prof. Walters' book (the newer one, circa 1996, not the older one). --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] == Learning MUMPS ==
Tannenbaum's _Structured Computer Organization_ as long as were suggesting books to each other... :)
[Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
I am posting with a specific topic, but want to thank David Sommers for his recent post expressing caution about splitting discussion between the new VistaOffice (which is a forum) and the historically unified hardhats (which of course is a mail list) I don't have a confident answer for that, but I am reviving an older question *will hardhats convert to a forum style* I believe the time to convert is now, although I realize some folks might still prefer the email mode (and if the tools are difficult to maintain identical content in both emaillist and forum application modes, I think forum should be the sole choice) For Friday 7/29 there were about 150 email postings, but volume is not the entire issue. The threads are long (which is proof of effort) and problem solving and teaching is a multifocal conversation necessarily. I think a *forum is much more readable* than a succession of emails, whether in your own cherished mail client or in the archives of hardhats. Email clients and archives require a click to move to each new post and often have confusing styles for the sequence of pasting past copy into a reply. *Forum mode transcends the pasting of prior thread content* and it presents a cleaner read for pasting into your PIM or linking into other sites like wiki etc ( I do wish that the HTML of forum archives treated each forum post as a document anchor for more granular linking) If we believe that our postings should have the discipline to leave a trail of solutions that alone speaks for using a forum archive so that content is more readable by subsequent visitors (not to mention our interacting usage) If it is appropriate to have the OpenOffice/hardhats split according to the guidelines just now posted by Joseph , I think it is all the more important to convert hardhats to forum, if only to handle the additional traffic that will occur on hardhats. That said it's probably valuable to have the forum interface just for readability. Right now there is not a large mass of forum content in the universe of hardhats/worldvista/mumps/gtm to reflect upon, but visit this link as an example of a mature sourceforge project with lots of history to feed newcomers: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=10226 Pick a thread with 20 or 30 replies and consider its readability. Now read this archive of Hardhats email thread (on the topic of OpenForum) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=10218400 Thanks for David Sommers link to the excellent article on technical tools and social actions http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html Now that the VistaOffice has been given its guidelines and vehicle as a forum, the core group that guides hardhats must face these questions on the mode for handling big traffic at hardhats. I don't know the methods for this decision among venerable hardhats, but after some discussion and some process that probably thankfully won't be called voting...I'm sure everyone can take whatever changes in stride. Rusty Maynard --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] (no subject)
I will be out of the office from Monday 8/1 through Friday 8/5. If you need immediate assistance please contact your Quatrex client representative. Thank you. Bill Soler Quatrex Technical Support 800.446.3393 ext. 87 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
Forums generally suck. Web tools squash communications and of course, are nothing like the tools for handling email. Nearly ever major programming project has been handled by mailing lists, news groups, and mutt. This and searchable archives are the backbone of collaboration. Finally, MORE mailing lists just means more things I need to sing up to and merge in my mailbox. And please don't look at Open Office for a guild on these kinds of things. They are a complete failure in this regard, and that is before we start to discuss the problems of the product itself. Ruben On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 21:09 -0400, TyrusMaynard wrote: I am posting with a specific topic, but want to thank David Sommers for his recent post expressing caution about splitting discussion between the new VistaOffice (which is a forum) and the historically unified hardhats (which of course is a mail list) I don't have a confident answer for that, but I am reviving an older question *will hardhats convert to a forum style* I believe the time to convert is now, although I realize some folks might still prefer the email mode (and if the tools are difficult to maintain identical content in both emaillist and forum application modes, I think forum should be the sole choice) For Friday 7/29 there were about 150 email postings, but volume is not the entire issue. The threads are long (which is proof of effort) and problem solving and teaching is a multifocal conversation necessarily. I think a *forum is much more readable* than a succession of emails, whether in your own cherished mail client or in the archives of hardhats. Email clients and archives require a click to move to each new post and often have confusing styles for the sequence of pasting past copy into a reply. *Forum mode transcends the pasting of prior thread content* and it presents a cleaner read for pasting into your PIM or linking into other sites like wiki etc ( I do wish that the HTML of forum archives treated each forum post as a document anchor for more granular linking) If we believe that our postings should have the discipline to leave a trail of solutions that alone speaks for using a forum archive so that content is more readable by subsequent visitors (not to mention our interacting usage) If it is appropriate to have the OpenOffice/hardhats split according to the guidelines just now posted by Joseph , I think it is all the more important to convert hardhats to forum, if only to handle the additional traffic that will occur on hardhats. That said it's probably valuable to have the forum interface just for readability. Right now there is not a large mass of forum content in the universe of hardhats/worldvista/mumps/gtm to reflect upon, but visit this link as an example of a mature sourceforge project with lots of history to feed newcomers: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=10226 Pick a thread with 20 or 30 replies and consider its readability. Now read this archive of Hardhats email thread (on the topic of OpenForum) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=10218400 Thanks for David Sommers link to the excellent article on technical tools and social actions http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html Now that the VistaOffice has been given its guidelines and vehicle as a forum, the core group that guides hardhats must face these questions on the mode for handling big traffic at hardhats. I don't know the methods for this decision among venerable hardhats, but after some discussion and some process that probably thankfully won't be called voting...I'm sure everyone can take whatever changes in stride. Rusty Maynard --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
On 7/30/05, Ruben Safir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forums generally suck. On the other hand, are four fingers and a thumb. ( YMMV ) Gmail Rocks. And please don't look at Open Office for a guild on these kinds ofthings.They are a complete failure in this regard, and that is before we start to discuss the problems of the product itself. I think linux-kernel is the gold standard for that.
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
Tyrus, The current list actually has a web based forum style that can present messages by thread and a couple of other variants.follow the link below to the archive: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members IMHO, anything that is an important thread and needs to be more organized than what we are using now should and deserves to be in a Wiki where it can be turned into something useful. As for the VistA Office EHR list it too is based on Sourceforge and uses the same software as this list. Joseph TyrusMaynard wrote: I am posting with a specific topic, but want to thank David Sommers for his recent post expressing caution about splitting discussion between the new VistaOffice (which is a forum) and the historically unified hardhats (which of course is a mail list) I don't have a confident answer for that, but I am reviving an older question *will hardhats convert to a forum style* I believe the time to convert is now, although I realize some folks might still prefer the email mode (and if the tools are difficult to maintain identical content in both emaillist and forum application modes, I think forum should be the sole choice) For Friday 7/29 there were about 150 email postings, but volume is not the entire issue. The threads are long (which is proof of effort) and problem solving and teaching is a multifocal conversation necessarily. I think a *forum is much more readable* than a succession of emails, whether in your own cherished mail client or in the archives of hardhats. Email clients and archives require a click to move to each new post and often have confusing styles for the sequence of pasting past copy into a reply. *Forum mode transcends the pasting of prior thread content* and it presents a cleaner read for pasting into your PIM or linking into other sites like wiki etc ( I do wish that the HTML of forum archives treated each forum post as a document anchor for more granular linking) If we believe that our postings should have the discipline to leave a trail of solutions that alone speaks for using a forum archive so that content is more readable by subsequent visitors (not to mention our interacting usage) If it is appropriate to have the OpenOffice/hardhats split according to the guidelines just now posted by Joseph , I think it is all the more important to convert hardhats to forum, if only to handle the additional traffic that will occur on hardhats. That said it's probably valuable to have the forum interface just for readability. Right now there is not a large mass of forum content in the universe of hardhats/worldvista/mumps/gtm to reflect upon, but visit this link as an example of a mature sourceforge project with lots of history to feed newcomers: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=10226 Pick a thread with 20 or 30 replies and consider its readability. Now read this archive of Hardhats email thread (on the topic of OpenForum) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=10218400 Thanks for David Sommers link to the excellent article on technical tools and social actions http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html Now that the VistaOffice has been given its guidelines and vehicle as a forum, the core group that guides hardhats must face these questions on the mode for handling big traffic at hardhats. I don't know the methods for this decision among venerable hardhats, but after some discussion and some process that probably thankfully won't be called voting...I'm sure everyone can take whatever changes in stride. Rusty Maynard --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members . --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
As for the VistA Office EHR list it too is based on Sourceforge and uses the same software as this list. Which o=is bad enough :) Ruben -- __ Brooklyn Linux Solutions So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://fairuse.nylxs.com Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net -- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
I am only a relatively recent arrival to the hardhats list and a beneficiary no matter how this content is packaged ...thank you all. The example I offered in the initial post is a link to LEO another type of project but with a strong and disciplined membership. I believe groups are mainly composed of their demeanor and traditions whatever the tools offered them ...but I believe forum offers a better finished product in archives and archiving is important. The sourceforge forums are very searchable just as the email archives are. The basic boolean and/or searching seems as good as I can get out of my large collection of local hardhats email on mozilla. One problem I failed to mention is that your local email is yours and a forum server can be slower. The link provided by David Sommers is excellent reading on group dynamics and it suggests some sort of leadership has to guide changes (whatever form of voting with partial participation or other polling is used in the whole community). In discussion, which is what I intended here, Ruben has spoken out for email lists which is the status quo and I do not categorize email lists and archives as a failure. I continue to advocate a forum for the benefits of a cleaner (and searchable) archive which I believe to be an easier read. Speed of the server is another consideration...but I am considering giving the maintenance of my local client hardhats archive anyway. Thanks for the active list. Rusty Ruben Safir wrote: Forums generally suck. Web tools squash communications and of course, are nothing like the tools for handling email. Nearly ever major programming project has been handled by mailing lists, news groups, and mutt. This and searchable archives are the backbone of collaboration. Finally, MORE mailing lists just means more things I need to sing up to and merge in my mailbox. And please don't look at Open Office for a guild on these kinds of things. They are a complete failure in this regard, and that is before we start to discuss the problems of the product itself. Ruben On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 21:09 -0400, TyrusMaynard wrote: I am posting with a specific topic, but want to thank David Sommers for his recent post expressing caution about splitting discussion between the new VistaOffice (which is a forum) and the historically unified hardhats (which of course is a mail list) I don't have a confident answer for that, but I am reviving an older question *will hardhats convert to a forum style* I believe the time to convert is now, although I realize some folks might still prefer the email mode (and if the tools are difficult to maintain identical content in both emaillist and forum application modes, I think forum should be the sole choice) For Friday 7/29 there were about 150 email postings, but volume is not the entire issue. The threads are long (which is proof of effort) and problem solving and teaching is a multifocal conversation necessarily. I think a *forum is much more readable* than a succession of emails, whether in your own cherished mail client or in the archives of hardhats. Email clients and archives require a click to move to each new post and often have confusing styles for the sequence of pasting past copy into a reply. *Forum mode transcends the pasting of prior thread content* and it presents a cleaner read for pasting into your PIM or linking into other sites like wiki etc ( I do wish that the HTML of forum archives treated each forum post as a document anchor for more granular linking) If we believe that our postings should have the discipline to leave a trail of solutions that alone speaks for using a forum archive so that content is more readable by subsequent visitors (not to mention our interacting usage) If it is appropriate to have the OpenOffice/hardhats split according to the guidelines just now posted by Joseph , I think it is all the more important to convert hardhats to forum, if only to handle the additional traffic that will occur on hardhats. That said it's probably valuable to have the forum interface just for readability. Right now there is not a large mass of forum content in the universe of hardhats/worldvista/mumps/gtm to reflect upon, but visit this link as an example of a mature sourceforge project with lots of history to feed newcomers: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=10226 Pick a thread with 20 or 30 replies and consider its readability. Now read this archive of Hardhats email thread (on the topic of OpenForum) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=10218400 Thanks for David Sommers link to the excellent article on technical tools and social actions http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html Now that the VistaOffice has been given its guidelines and vehicle as a forum, the core group that guides hardhats must face these questions on the mode for handling big traffic at hardhats.
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
On Sat, Jul 30, 2005 at 10:37:58PM -0400, TyrusMaynard wrote: I am only a relatively recent arrival to the hardhats list and a beneficiary no matter how this content is packaged ...thank you all. The example I offered in the initial post is a link to LEO another type of project but with a strong and disciplined membership. Displine is a hinerance, not a help. There are a lot of words here but they offer nothing in terms of content. All you need for a good project is a mail server and an IRC channel. And CVS Ruben -- __ Brooklyn Linux Solutions So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://fairuse.nylxs.com Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net -- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] (no subject)
I will be out of the office from Monday 8/1 through Friday 8/5. If you need immediate assistance please contact your Quatrex client representative. Thank you. Bill Soler Quatrex Technical Support 800.446.3393 ext. 87 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
On 7/30/05, Ruben Safir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jul 30, 2005 at 10:37:58PM -0400, TyrusMaynard wrote: I am only a relatively recent arrival to the hardhats list and a beneficiary no matter how this content is packaged ...thank you all. The example Ioffered in the initial post is a link to LEO another type of project but with a strong and disciplined membership.Displine is a hinerance, not a help.There are a lot of words here but they offer nothing in terms of content.All you need for a good project is a mail server and an IRC channel.And CVS CVS, AMEN! ( I dither about the IRC channel )...
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
Joseph, By forum style do you mean the accumulated archives of an email list? I know that hardhats has a vestigial forum which is not congruent with the wealth of content that will be mined in the regular email list/archives ...it is that mother lode that I am speaking about. I have wrongly assumed that your invitation was to a forum but I now realize that the link is to mailman listinfo for an email list instead. Whether or not there is successful splitting of the community tools, I believe a forum would be a better mode for either of the split. If a mother lode of VistaOffice develops...it would be better served by a true forum for later mining. I have heard of forums that cross post to a mailman archive ...but I have not seen the application that will receive traditional email posts and cross post them to a forum archive * as original copy+signature without redundant thread copy* . What a deal ...everybody presented consistently without automated thread copy in replies (as I am practicing below)! Wiki is yet another paradigm Thanks for your work in making all this commotion. Rusty aka Tyrus Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Tyrus, The current list actually has a web based forum style that can present messages by thread and a couple of other variants.follow the link below to the archive: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members IMHO, anything that is an important thread and needs to be more organized than what we are using now should and deserves to be in a Wiki where it can be turned into something useful. As for the VistA Office EHR list it too is based on Sourceforge and uses the same software as this list. Joseph TyrusMaynard wrote: I am posting with a specific topic, but want to thank David Sommers for his recent post expressing caution about splitting discussion between the new VistaOffice (which is a forum) and the historically unified hardhats (which of course is a mail list) I don't have a confident answer for that, but I am reviving an older question *will hardhats convert to a forum style* I believe the time to convert is now, although I realize some folks might still prefer the email mode (and if the tools are difficult to maintain identical content in both emaillist and forum application modes, I think forum should be the sole choice) For Friday 7/29 there were about 150 email postings, but volume is not the entire issue. The threads are long (which is proof of effort) and problem solving and teaching is a multifocal conversation necessarily. I think a *forum is much more readable* than a succession of emails, whether in your own cherished mail client or in the archives of hardhats. Email clients and archives require a click to move to each new post and often have confusing styles for the sequence of pasting past copy into a reply. *Forum mode transcends the pasting of prior thread content* and it presents a cleaner read for pasting into your PIM or linking into other sites like wiki etc ( I do wish that the HTML of forum archives treated each forum post as a document anchor for more granular linking) If we believe that our postings should have the discipline to leave a trail of solutions that alone speaks for using a forum archive so that content is more readable by subsequent visitors (not to mention our interacting usage) If it is appropriate to have the OpenOffice/hardhats split according to the guidelines just now posted by Joseph , I think it is all the more important to convert hardhats to forum, if only to handle the additional traffic that will occur on hardhats. That said it's probably valuable to have the forum interface just for readability. Right now there is not a large mass of forum content in the universe of hardhats/worldvista/mumps/gtm to reflect upon, but visit this link as an example of a mature sourceforge project with lots of history to feed newcomers: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=10226 Pick a thread with 20 or 30 replies and consider its readability. Now read this archive of Hardhats email thread (on the topic of OpenForum) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=10218400 Thanks for David Sommers link to the excellent article on technical tools and social actions http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html Now that the VistaOffice has been given its guidelines and vehicle as a forum, the core group that guides hardhats must face these questions on the mode for handling big traffic at hardhats. I don't know the methods for this decision among venerable hardhats, but after some discussion and some process that probably thankfully won't be called voting...I'm sure everyone can take whatever changes in stride. Rusty Maynard --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps,
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
CVS, AMEN! ( I dither about the IRC channel )... An IRC channel is wonderful for a sense of community integrity and for help when you need something more interactive and bit more detailed than one can do through email. Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 23:28, TyrusMaynard wrote: Joseph, By forum style do you mean the accumulated archives of an email list? That is the motherload of searchable archives. And it works great with google. A backend to usenet is useful sometimes as well. I have wrongly assumed that your invitation was to a forum but I now realize that the link is to mailman listinfo for an email list instead. Whether or not there is successful splitting of the community tools, I believe a forum would be a better mode No it would be a disaster. In fact, RMS wouldn't even have access to a forum because he never uses the net and fetches his mail by scping his /var/spool/mail directory and using rmail in emacs. A forum is for control freaks who feel great need to have control of discussions. Its a disaster for grepping through messages, quickly addressing issues while at work, and general communication. It's just sucks. It's a crackpot cooperate idea based on control of the information which stymies conversation and innovation. And it is further propagated as idea by AOL junkies who never used compuserve. Every forum I've ever seen from match.com to Oracles Tech Forum has been designed and successfully stymied contributions for the sake of control. Even Slashdot have limited use as a communications mechanism. If you can't use mutt to communicate with the medium, then the medium is about worthless. for either of the split. If a mother lode of VistaOffice develops...it would be better served by a true forum for later mining. I have heard of forums that cross post to a mailman archive ...but I have not seen the application that will receive traditional email posts and cross post them to a forum archive * as original copy+signature without redundant thread copy* . What a deal ...everybody presented consistently without automated thread copy in replies (as I am practicing below)! Wiki is yet another paradigm Screw it. Let the threads be redundant, and redundant again. Of just point someone to the darn archive with google, which is really a RTFM thingie which should have been done before asking a technical question. Thanks for your work in making all this commotion. Rusty aka Tyrus I'm not enjoying this. This is ding dong, stupid idea of the week, the kind of thing which is bound to arise every few months from newbies without any real experience working on a collaborative project outside of their cooperate visio/AOL/slaveware experience. Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 22:19, Mike Lieman wrote: On 7/30/05, Ruben Safir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forums generally suck. On the other hand, are four fingers and a thumb. ( YMMV ) Gmail Rocks. this is very good and when I'm in a better mood, I'm going to remember this instead of my normal answer which is something along the lines of WTF - were you like born yesterday...dropped on your head.. Jane - You ignorant slut...blah blah blah Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
This list has built from one with only occasional posts to a busy one that has built a community. The step of splitting into an applications type discussion list like the VO users are going to likely want and an infrastructure list is already going to rock the boat and I feel that we need to take this slowly lest we risk loosing what we have. Personally, I hope we all sign up for this new list as it is important to bring these new folks into the VistA community so that their contributions can join ours to build and improve VistA. If we are not there to ease the new VistA Office users through their first steps, they may leave and never take another look at VistA. I actually suspect many of us will have a lot to learn from this because the configuration of VistA is pretty much an untapped topic on this list. The behind the scenes work to do this right is considerable and crucial to the success of an installation of VistA. Those of us that have been involved with the VistA-Office project so far have seen very clearly how very important doing this configuration right is to the users and how very powerful it is as well. I see proper configuration as the leading factor that will lead to the success or failure of VO installations, and I think that configuration will vary considerably from office to office and will change over time within offices. I am hoping that the VA ADPACs and CACs and other specialists will be joining the new list to help us along. I think the clinicians in the group in particular are going to enjoy exploring these new areas, and those in the business of installing and configuring VistA will learn what users like to help improve their customer's satisfaction as well as patient care and education. I am really pretty excited and yet feeling some trepidation about the release of VistA-Office. The cooperation we are seeing between the government entities and the private sector is something I think we all have fervently wanted for some time and it is happening. Those who went to VEHU came back bubbling over with news about the wonderful training materials that were available and a lot of that should soon become available to us to be posted on the fledgling VVSO web site. And I am looking forward to bringing in more people to help with volunteer efforts to provide open source tools for clinicians to use and teaching material to incorporate into VistA to help educate our patients and maybe even attract some funding for the technical gurus build interfaces, etc. I fear failure to build this community successfully and I will be doing every thing I can to see that it does not happen. On Saturday 30 July 2005 10:37 pm, TyrusMaynard wrote: I am only a relatively recent arrival to the hardhats list and a beneficiary no matter how this content is packaged ...thank you all. The example I offered in the initial post is a link to LEO another type of project but with a strong and disciplined membership. I believe groups are mainly composed of their demeanor and traditions whatever the tools offered them ...but I believe forum offers a better finished product in archives and archiving is important. The sourceforge forums are very searchable just as the email archives are. The basic boolean and/or searching seems as good as I can get out of my large collection of local hardhats email on mozilla. One problem I failed to mention is that your local email is yours and a forum server can be slower. The link provided by David Sommers is excellent reading on group dynamics and it suggests some sort of leadership has to guide changes (whatever form of voting with partial participation or other polling is used in the whole community). In discussion, which is what I intended here, Ruben has spoken out for email lists which is the status quo and I do not categorize email lists and archives as a failure. I continue to advocate a forum for the benefits of a cleaner (and searchable) archive which I believe to be an easier read. Speed of the server is another consideration...but I am considering giving the maintenance of my local client hardhats archive anyway. Thanks for the active list. Rusty Ruben Safir wrote: Forums generally suck. Web tools squash communications and of course, are nothing like the tools for handling email. Nearly ever major programming project has been handled by mailing lists, news groups, and mutt. This and searchable archives are the backbone of collaboration. Finally, MORE mailing lists just means more things I need to sing up to and merge in my mailbox. And please don't look at Open Office for a guild on these kinds of things. They are a complete failure in this regard, and that is before we start to discuss the problems of the product itself. Ruben On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 21:09 -0400, TyrusMaynard wrote: I am posting with a specific topic, but want to thank David
[Hardhats-members] (no subject)
I will be out of the office from Monday 8/1 through Friday 8/5. If you need immediate assistance please contact your Quatrex client representative. Thank you. Bill Soler Quatrex Technical Support 800.446.3393 ext. 87 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Forum Mode for Hardhats NOW?
We will get you straightened out with time, Rubin. Just hang in there and maybe you will avoid that stroke after all! ;-) On Sunday 31 July 2005 12:22 am, Ruben Safir wrote: On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 22:19, Mike Lieman wrote: On 7/30/05, Ruben Safir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forums generally suck. On the other hand, are four fingers and a thumb. ( YMMV ) Gmail Rocks. this is very good and when I'm in a better mood, I'm going to remember this instead of my normal answer which is something along the lines of WTF - were you like born yesterday...dropped on your head.. Jane - You ignorant slut...blah blah blah Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles, informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477alloc_id=16492op=click ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
