Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
My understanding of copyright law (limited) was that if one expects something to be protected by copyright, then one has to inform potential viewers/readers/listeners. Otherwise they may not know to protect your content. Thus without a (c) attached, then one could not come back and claim infringement. Thus I thought that the default was NO copyright. You are saying the default IS copyright. Perhaps this is the blind arguing with the blind... :-) Kevin On 3/13/06, Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ownership of postings, like an open source applicaion itself automatically belongs to the author(s) - UNLESS the terms of usage on the Wiki state that all postings become property of the Wiki maintainer. Perhaps a terms of use statement should be created for that Wiki. The open source license used to disemminate the posting doesn't actually affect ownership - it signifies that the owner has guaranteed the posting can be distributed without compensating him/her. The concepts of ownership and distribution licenses are oft confused :-) And I wouldn't rely on Google or anyone else keeping a permanent archive either Richard Schilling Bhaskar, KS wrote: No, it doesn't. But I was only speaking to the concern voiced in your post that I replied to. -- Bhaskar On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 16:07 -0600, Dan wrote: That really doesn't resolve the ownership issue though, does it? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0944bid$1720dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
Hi Kevin, You're pretty close. As Richard notes, Copyright and protection under the Copyright law are two separate, but obviously related, things. Under US copyright law, the author of a work owns that work. Period. The word copyright means what it says. It denotes the right to copy a work. Unless that right is explicitly transferred by the author to someone else, the author is the only one that has that right. Small portions of a work *can* be copied as long as attribution to the author / owner is provided. If however, the owner wants to _protect and defend her rights to_ that work, then the owner must give notice. And the (c) (or the word copyright) is not sufficient. The notice must also contain the name of the entity claiming ownership and the date when ownership is claimed. So you must supply a notice like copyright 2006, Bill Walton. The notice allows persons wishing to cite / use the work to whom to attribute it / ask for permission to use it. The amount of a work being used dictates whether you can just provide attribution (as when quoting a sentence or two) or you have to get the author's permission (as when you want to compile a book of short stories) If you don't give others the ability to comply with the law, then you can't claim protection under it. Copyright law applies to all written works. It also applies to a work independent of form. Music, for example, is protected under Copyright law. The protection is based on the existence of sheet music, but applies to the performance as well. Same is true for audio books. So you're both right on different but related topics. Richard is right in that the ownership 'default' is copyright. You are right in that the 'default' is no copyright *protection*. If you want to stay clear of the kind of crap going on with SCO and Linux, follow Richard's advice. Best regards, Bill - Original Message - From: Kevin Toppenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: 2006-03-14 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content? My understanding of copyright law (limited) was that if one expects something to be protected by copyright, then one has to inform potential viewers/readers/listeners. Otherwise they may not know to protect your content. Thus without a (c) attached, then one could not come back and claim infringement. Thus I thought that the default was NO copyright. You are saying the default IS copyright. Perhaps this is the blind arguing with the blind... :-) Kevin On 3/13/06, Richard Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ownership of postings, like an open source applicaion itself automatically belongs to the author(s) - UNLESS the terms of usage on the Wiki state that all postings become property of the Wiki maintainer. Perhaps a terms of use statement should be created for that Wiki. The open source license used to disemminate the posting doesn't actually affect ownership - it signifies that the owner has guaranteed the posting can be distributed without compensating him/her. The concepts of ownership and distribution licenses are oft confused :-) And I wouldn't rely on Google or anyone else keeping a permanent archive either Richard Schilling Bhaskar, KS wrote: No, it doesn't. But I was only speaking to the concern voiced in your post that I replied to. -- Bhaskar On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 16:07 -0600, Dan wrote: That really doesn't resolve the ownership issue though, does it? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=kkid0944bid$1720dat1642
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
On 3/14/06, Bill Walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kevin, You're pretty close. As Richard notes, Copyright and protection under the Copyright law are two separate, but obviously related, things... Excellent writeup. Thanks Kevin --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0944bid$1720dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
Ownership of postings, like an open source applicaion itself automatically belongs to the author(s) - UNLESS the terms of usage on the Wiki state that all postings become property of the Wiki maintainer. Perhaps a terms of use statement should be created for that Wiki. The open source license used to disemminate the posting doesn't actually affect ownership - it signifies that the owner has guaranteed the posting can be distributed without compensating him/her. The concepts of ownership and distribution licenses are oft confused :-) And I wouldn't rely on Google or anyone else keeping a permanent archive either Richard Schilling Bhaskar, KS wrote: No, it doesn't. But I was only speaking to the concern voiced in your post that I replied to. -- Bhaskar On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 16:07 -0600, Dan wrote: That really doesn't resolve the ownership issue though, does it? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
That page #2137 is mine, and you better keep your hands off it! (Obviously I am just kidding). I think it would be hard to argue that something posted on the internet is protected unless each page posts a copyright on it. Perhaps someone, such as yourself, wants to copy the content of the wikki for commercial purpose. I would see that in bad taste, but it would be essentially impossible for pursuing a copyright violation. I say this as someone who has put many hours of preparation into pages stored there. Kevin On 3/9/06, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hate to bring a legal matter to light, but what is the legal standing of the user-contributed wiki entries? That is, does the contributor have perpetual full rights or does the user-contributed content belong to the organization? Is the content/database jointly owned in full or owned by only one company/organization? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0944bid$1720dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
Actually, I'm more concerned to what happens to the content if WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management change, etc.. At 02:41 PM 3/9/2006, Kevin wrote: That page #2137 is mine, and you better keep your hands off it! (Obviously I am just kidding). I think it would be hard to argue that something posted on the internet is protected unless each page posts a copyright on it. Perhaps someone, such as yourself, wants to copy the content of the wikki for commercial purpose. I would see that in bad taste, but it would be essentially impossible for pursuing a copyright violation. I say this as someone who has put many hours of preparation into pages stored there. Kevin On 3/9/06, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hate to bring a legal matter to light, but what is the legal standing of the user-contributed wiki entries? That is, does the contributor have perpetual full rights or does the user-contributed content belong to the organization? Is the content/database jointly owned in full or owned by only one company/organization? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdkkid0944bid$1720dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
I would not loose any sleep over that. You are talking about a group of volunteers who have kept at it through thick and mostly, very, very, thin, so I don't think the content will disappear. It may be a bit slow in getting fixed, or appear in a different format, but it won't disappear. On Thursday 09 March 2006 15:24, Dan wrote: Actually, I'm more concerned to what happens to the content if WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management change, etc.. At 02:41 PM 3/9/2006, Kevin wrote: That page #2137 is mine, and you better keep your hands off it! (Obviously I am just kidding). I think it would be hard to argue that something posted on the internet is protected unless each page posts a copyright on it. Perhaps someone, such as yourself, wants to copy the content of the wikki for commercial purpose. I would see that in bad taste, but it would be essentially impossible for pursuing a copyright violation. I say this as someone who has put many hours of preparation into pages stored there. Kevin On 3/9/06, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hate to bring a legal matter to light, but what is the legal standing of the user-contributed wiki entries? That is, does the contributor have perpetual full rights or does the user-contributed content belong to the organization? Is the content/database jointly owned in full or owned by only one company/organization? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdkkid0944bid$1720dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
In a nutshell, the content just like the software is open sourcewhich means there are no IP issues standing in the way of the software or content outliving the organizations etc. that have had a hand in developing or making it available for the benefit of others. Cheers, Joseph Dan wrote: Actually, I'm more concerned to what happens to the content if WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management change, etc.. At 02:41 PM 3/9/2006, Kevin wrote: That page #2137 is mine, and you better keep your hands off it! --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
If WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management changes, people get sick, whatever, there are always the Google archive (http://google.com) and the wayback machine (http://archive.org). Other search engines may also have their stashed copies of web pages. Now, if Earth were to get hit by an asteroid or if Yellowstone were to erupt again, there might be a bit of a problem until we build a data archival site that is out of this world! But I suppose VistA documentation may not be high on our list of priorities were such a disaster to happen. -- Bhaskar On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 14:24 -0600, Dan wrote: Actually, I'm more concerned to what happens to the content if WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management change, etc.. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
That really doesn't resolve the ownership issue though, does it? At 04:39 PM 3/9/2006, Bhaskar wrote: If WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management changes, people get sick, whatever, there are always the Google archive (http://google.com) and the wayback machine (http://archive.org). Other search engines may also have their stashed copies of web pages. Now, if Earth were to get hit by an asteroid or if Yellowstone were to erupt again, there might be a bit of a problem until we build a data archival site that is out of this world! But I suppose VistA documentation may not be high on our list of priorities were such a disaster to happen. -- Bhaskar On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 14:24 -0600, Dan wrote: Actually, I'm more concerned to what happens to the content if WorldVistA splits up, goes away, management change, etc.. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki -- who owns the content?
No, it doesn't. But I was only speaking to the concern voiced in your post that I replied to. -- Bhaskar On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 16:07 -0600, Dan wrote: That really doesn't resolve the ownership issue though, does it? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
