Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Good tip Gary! Assumed M$ would never smarten up so I've been getting by using the last free version of HP. Glad I did not switch to the newer paid version of 'popper even more now! Now if Y! would catch up with everyone else... Gary VanderMolen wrote: Why use HotPopper? Free Hotmail accounts have had POP access since about February. See http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!49799.entry I recommend you use port 587 rather than port 25 for the SMTP server. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: maccrawj maccr...@gmail.com Duh, I've said I do as much as that in past posts! I even use HotPopper to do my aged hotmail account while dumping Yahoo for preventing similar hacks.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Why use HotPopper? Free Hotmail accounts have had POP access since about February. See http://mailcall.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!CC9301187A51FE33!49799.entry I recommend you use port 587 rather than port 25 for the SMTP server. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: maccrawj maccr...@gmail.com Duh, I've said I do as much as that in past posts! I even use HotPopper to do my aged hotmail account while dumping Yahoo for preventing similar hacks.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
ATT DSL maybe but not Verizon. The issue here is more that they use Yahoo for their email services. I got real tired, real quick, talking to Punjab in India when my Verizon DSL went offline. Bad enough I am talking offshore for support, about a modem who's manufacturer insists only Verizon does support for, but he/she did not even know that the undocumented flashing code was no code but rather indicated modem so dead even diagnostics weren't running thus would not take my diagnosis of dead even after I had swapped my neighbors modem onto our line fine getting service no problem. We were down a week, I ended up doing all the work for them including figuring out how to test the setup, and had to force them into ordering of replacement modem when a spare worked. They finally said it's the modem of course than claimed to have diagnosed it as such but truth was when I pushed them to allowing me to order a modem they simply changed my ticket status to solved by replacing dead modem as if a tech had been here tested anything while quietly canceling the home visit I waited for all the next day at their insistence that a home call was needed would occur. Never again will I deal with them would have already dropped our voice line also if I could get our little mountain town phone number ported to a VOIP service. Luckily our local cable is an independent and has also seen the light of the 21st century removing the 20GB/mo cap upping speeds from 3mb to 9Mb on way to 15Mb+ within a year as they pour money into their system revamping expanding (finally). About same price as DSL, 3x the speed, and local (literally) tech support too boot. Only corporate types should ever be forced to use Outlook and even they should have broken free of MS Exhange a long time ago. Gary VanderMolen wrote: In my experience, moving to cable from ATT DSL is probably worse as far as tech support. Mail clients often have very helpful user groups. I can't speak for Thunderbird or Eudora, but peer support for Outlook Express, Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail is especially strong.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
I'll second that, exactly what I followed! Scott Sipe wrote: Not to change the topic, but if you do decide to switch to gmail (which, I might add, gives you the freedom to change ISPs without worrying about losing your email address!) they have very nice instructions for how to setup thunderbird: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=86399 Scott
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Because I don't like browsing on-the-fly for email when I can just download it be off the net? Because browsing email in a HTML client is asking for exploit no matter how they claim to sanitize it? Those two reason are enough IMHO. Brian Weeden wrote: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Umm. Gmail fully supports pop3 and imap so you can download and never use the web client. :-) --Original Message-- From: maccrawj Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Sent: Jun 7, 2009 9:14 PM Because I don't like browsing on-the-fly for email when I can just download it be off the net? Because browsing email in a HTML client is asking for exploit no matter how they claim to sanitize it? Those two reason are enough IMHO. Brian Weeden wrote: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from Aljawal
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Duh, I've said I do as much as that in past posts! I even use HotPopper to do my aged hotmail account while dumping Yahoo for preventing similar hacks. Point was retorting the ..why.. use.. stand alone email client side of the argument. z00...@gmail.com wrote: Umm. Gmail fully supports pop3 and imap so you can download and never use the web client. :-) --Original Message-- From: maccrawj Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Sent: Jun 7, 2009 9:14 PM Because I don't like browsing on-the-fly for email when I can just download it be off the net? Because browsing email in a HTML client is asking for exploit no matter how they claim to sanitize it? Those two reason are enough IMHO. Brian Weeden wrote: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from Aljawal
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Okay, time to debunk a couple of things that have come up in this thread. 1) webmail is vulnerable to hacks - Well, not really. All of the email preview-pane or attachment auto attacks I've heard about only affect Outlook and do not affect gmail. Sure, if you execute a bad attachment you're going to get infected no matter what but Outlook is way more vulnerable here. 2) can't backup Gmail - Well that's just not true. If you want, you can just access it through Outlook or Thunderbird via POP and download everything. Or you can use a backup client like MailStore: www.mailstore.com 3) webmail is slower Not sure where this comes from. I've got 40,000+ messages in my gmail acccount, all searchable on the fly much, much faster than using the backup set I have in Thunderbrd on my desktop. Plus, you never have to worry about running out of mailbox space. That's a huge plus if you've ever worked in a corporate setting where they put tiny caps like 200mb on mailbox sizes. Then you are forced to move your stuff to offline mailboxes which makes you vulnerable to crashes. 4) I must be online to access my email - Used to be true, but not since Google released offline Gmail a few months ago. Just install Google Gears, enable offline Gmail, and presto. So you can download then go offline and do whatever. 5) Google has all your data and can do evil things - sure they have your data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways. And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over than Google. For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc). 6) problems syncing with mobile devices - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with my Google contacts, calendar and email. No issues there. Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived notions or old fuddy syndrome. You know, like Back in my day, a car was something you could take apart and fix yourself or I don't trust this new-fangled thingie. And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own choices and rationalize it however they want. But please, make sure you separate the facts from the opinions so others can make their own decisions. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
5) Google has all your data and can do evil things - sure they have your data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways. And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over than Google. For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc). See but my ISP isn't searching for stats, keywords, geographic data, etc... Google is. Google indexes .* for a reason, and it's not to provide you with great service. Nuff said. -- Bryan G. Seitz
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
they do not have my contact list (address book) and is my customer who works for the Gov is not allowed to do online mail. Well only one customer who was a consultant for the Pentagon. When AOL went web based only he freaked big time but was glad I finally got him away from AOL. :-) of course AOL is a whole other problem for sure. At 04:25 PM 6/7/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with: 5) Google has all your data and can do evil things - sure they have your data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways. And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over than Google. For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc). 6) problems syncing with mobile devices - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with my Google contacts, calendar and email. No issues there. what's wrong with old fuddies ? Most of them were the great generation. :-D Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived notions or old fuddy syndrome. You know, like Back in my day, a car was something you could take apart and fix yourself or I don't trust this new-fangled thingie. And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own choices and rationalize it however they want. But please, make sure you BTW why would anyone have 40,000 emails ? Guess I am a old fuddy duddy fp -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
We have one client that is constantly monitered by the fed. Fbi agents there, treasury dept officials at their gates (secret service), forget webmail, their employees can't oen cell phones with cameras. (Guessed what they do? Finalize poker chips for casino chain) Sent via BlackBerry -Original Message- From: FORC5 fuf...@cox.net Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:44:11 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? they do not have my contact list (address book) and is my customer who works for the Gov is not allowed to do online mail. Well only one customer who was a consultant for the Pentagon. When AOL went web based only he freaked big time but was glad I finally got him away from AOL. :-) of course AOL is a whole other problem for sure. At 04:25 PM 6/7/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with: 5) Google has all your data and can do evil things - sure they have your data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways. And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over than Google. For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc). 6) problems syncing with mobile devices - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with my Google contacts, calendar and email. No issues there. what's wrong with old fuddies ? Most of them were the great generation. :-D Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived notions or old fuddy syndrome. You know, like Back in my day, a car was something you could take apart and fix yourself or I don't trust this new-fangled thingie. And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own choices and rationalize it however they want. But please, make sure you BTW why would anyone have 40,000 emails ? Guess I am a old fuddy duddy fp -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
1) Yes it is, if a browser is vulnerable code in the email could be run. There have been more than a few script viruses/malware that hit Yahoo where only reading the email content was needed for the script to run. 4) that's a stand alone client. Brian Weeden wrote: Okay, time to debunk a couple of things that have come up in this thread. 1) webmail is vulnerable to hacks - Well, not really. All of the email preview-pane or attachment auto attacks I've heard about only affect Outlook and do not affect gmail. Sure, if you execute a bad attachment you're going to get infected no matter what but Outlook is way more vulnerable here. 2) can't backup Gmail - Well that's just not true. If you want, you can just access it through Outlook or Thunderbird via POP and download everything. Or you can use a backup client like MailStore: www.mailstore.com 3) webmail is slower Not sure where this comes from. I've got 40,000+ messages in my gmail acccount, all searchable on the fly much, much faster than using the backup set I have in Thunderbrd on my desktop. Plus, you never have to worry about running out of mailbox space. That's a huge plus if you've ever worked in a corporate setting where they put tiny caps like 200mb on mailbox sizes. Then you are forced to move your stuff to offline mailboxes which makes you vulnerable to crashes. 4) I must be online to access my email - Used to be true, but not since Google released offline Gmail a few months ago. Just install Google Gears, enable offline Gmail, and presto. So you can download then go offline and do whatever. 5) Google has all your data and can do evil things - sure they have your data but that isn't any different than your ISP which has it all anyways. And there are a lot more ways (and incentives) your ISP can screw you over than Google. For me, this is unavoidable and I'm a fairly paranoid kind of guy (run Truecrypt on my machines, use VPNs to connect when traveling, etc). 6) problems syncing with mobile devices - My iPhone syncs beaufiully with my Google contacts, calendar and email. No issues there. Honestly, I think this is a case of people bringing ether pre-conceived notions or old fuddy syndrome. You know, like Back in my day, a car was something you could take apart and fix yourself or I don't trust this new-fangled thingie. And that's fine - everyone is free to make their own choices and rationalize it however they want. But please, make sure you separate the facts from the opinions so others can make their own decisions. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. --- Brian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: Hope not fp At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with: At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
and I do not understand why anyone would want their personal info on someone else's server. not in this day and age. fp At 04:11 AM 6/6/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. --- Brian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: Hope not fp At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with: At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- The problem of the day is: improperly oriented keyboard
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
You do realize that it's already there, right? Unless you are using PGP for every email, they are flying around open text on the internet and bouncing from mail server to mail server. We're just sending postcards around, trusting that the post office employees (or anyone else watching the stream) don't read them. The only way to not have personal info on the net is to never use the internet in the first place. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 8:29 AM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: and I do not understand why anyone would want their personal info on someone else's server. not in this day and age. fp At 04:11 AM 6/6/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. --- Brian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: Hope not fp At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with: At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- The problem of the day is: improperly oriented keyboard
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
You do realize that it's already there, right? Unless you are using PGP for every email, they are flying around open text on the internet and bouncing from mail server to mail server. We're just sending postcards around, trusting that the post office employees (or anyone else watching the stream) don't read them. The only way to not have personal info on the net is to never use the internet in the first place. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 8:29 AM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: and I do not understand why anyone would want their personal info on someone else's server. not in this day and age. fp At 04:11 AM 6/6/2009, Brian Weeden Poked the stick with: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. --- Brian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: Hope not fp At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with: At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- The problem of the day is: improperly oriented keyboard
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Well, everyone has their preferred way of doing things. I like Exchange/Outlook the best for me ( currently working to put together a server to host my own domain at home ). At my last job, I was a Domino/Notes Admin ( along with being A network Admin ) and while I think Outlook works better then Notes as an email client, Notes does bring some interesting groupware capacity to the dance. But for *me* I don't like web based email clients, I find them slow, clunky and I rarely use them. Regards, Gary At 06:11 AM 6/6/2009, It was written by Brian Weeden that this shall come to pass: Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client. --- Brian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:32 PM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote: Hope not fp At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with: At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Likewise, I find web-based mail unbearably slow when compared to the snappiness of desktop mail clients. As for the touted portability of webmail, I seldom travel, but when I do, I bring my laptop along. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: Gary Jackson gjack...@visi.com But for *me* I don't like web based email clients, I find them slow, clunky and I rarely use them.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly possible with web based email either. Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well. Especially with Gmail. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Disclaimer: I'm writing this from OSX Mail.app. In general I still prefer offline mail readers. Gmail+IMAP integrates perfectly with mail.app, so my gmail recipes+tags and everything work perfectly in conjunction with offline reading. HOWEVER... I might take issue with the far faster statement. At work a number of people have THunderbird mailboxes that probably in all exceed 3-4GB. (say 4-5 years of email). When searching for an email from a couple of years ago or even doing a full body message search of the last 6-12 months, it can take a long time! Mail.app has much better indexing and is faster than that, but compared to gmail where you can literally instantly search tens--probably hundreds--of thousands of messages? That's hard to beat... Scott On Jun 6, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Neil Davidson wrote: Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly possible with web based email either. Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well. Especially with Gmail. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
All, Can I please this very divergent opinion-fest to a close. I did suspect my question to cause this. I seem to be gifted with this. I'm not nearly as bright or well-connected as the List seems to be. I have done what Neil told me to do. I now know that I have an ESET glitch with Thunderbird I need to decide about. I do know how to test this after I go cut the grass! Like, later tonight! I seriously appreciate all the comments received. All these replies managed to get ThunderBird working. Almost. I have tried to decode/transfer my current TBird settings to Eudora (v5.1.1) and now am trying to debug Eudora. Eudora is still doing a major DELAY getting new INBOUND msgs. But, it does seem to SEND new mail FINE. I do suspect this may be the new SSL requirement. So, perhaps my Eudora is just too OLD to play SSL properly.. I can deal with this. To wrap-up: Current Eudora does not seem to play nice with new settings(?) I believe that the current Mozilla Thunderbird does not like my use of ESET for 'outbound' email scanning. I know, it seems stupid to do outbound email scanning. I do somehow agree; but that is the default. I run as mostly default here as I can! Much less grief. I do not have to remember all my tweaks. Tests later tonight to follow. :) Thank you for all your opinions. Understand your personal choices. Even can fully comprehend some of your choices I do not do Cell Phone. I do not do HDTV. I do not have cable anything. I do not have an HTPC/HDPC/H?PC/Game console. Thank you again. I will raise another thread when I can formulate an appropriate question. Best, Duncan Scott Sipe wrote: Disclaimer: I'm writing this from OSX Mail.app. In general I still prefer offline mail readers. Gmail+IMAP integrates perfectly with mail.app, so my gmail recipes+tags and everything work perfectly in conjunction with offline reading. HOWEVER... I might take issue with the far faster statement. At work a number of people have THunderbird mailboxes that probably in all exceed 3-4GB. (say 4-5 years of email). When searching for an email from a couple of years ago or even doing a full body message search of the last 6-12 months, it can take a long time! Mail.app has much better indexing and is faster than that, but compared to gmail where you can literally instantly search tens--probably hundreds--of thousands of messages? That's hard to beat... Scott On Jun 6, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Neil Davidson wrote: Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly possible with web based email either. Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well. Especially with Gmail. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
occasionally Eudora inbound is slow or hangs on program startup, almost like Eudora opens and tries to connect b4 it is actually connected to the server. re try after open and it usually is OK. Did have to change the port .(outboound) one account I have to check authentication allowed, the others I do not. go figure. Eudora 7 No problems with Tbird and Eset at all. (eset 3.0.684) fred At 03:33 PM 6/6/2009, DSinc Poked the stick with: I have tried to decode/transfer my current TBird settings to Eudora (v5.1.1) and now am trying to debug Eudora. Eudora is still doing a major DELAY getting new INBOUND msgs. But, it does seem to SEND new mail FINE. I do suspect this may be the new SSL requirement. So, perhaps my Eudora is just too OLD to play SSL properly.. I can deal with this. To wrap-up: Current Eudora does not seem to play nice with new settings(?) I believe that the current Mozilla Thunderbird does not like my use of ESET for 'outbound' email scanning. I know, it seems stupid to do outbound email scanning. I do somehow agree; but that is the default. I run as mostly default here as I can! Much less grief. I do not have to remember all my tweaks. Tests later tonight to follow. :) -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Old Grandad is dead, but his spirit lives on.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
The specific client is very important with regard to searching. For example, with Outlook 2007 index-based search (using Windows Desktop Search as the engine), I can search through a 10+GB mailbox in a couple seconds--including filters. To me, webmail is only useful when on the go...and with my mobile devices now syncing e-mail, I find even that fairly pointless. Ironically, the only webmail that I've found that is as nice, fully featured, and fast as a full client isExchange's OWA. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Scott Sipe Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 4:57 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Disclaimer: I'm writing this from OSX Mail.app. In general I still prefer offline mail readers. Gmail+IMAP integrates perfectly with mail.app, so my gmail recipes+tags and everything work perfectly in conjunction with offline reading. HOWEVER... I might take issue with the far faster statement. At work a number of people have THunderbird mailboxes that probably in all exceed 3-4GB. (say 4-5 years of email). When searching for an email from a couple of years ago or even doing a full body message search of the last 6-12 months, it can take a long time! Mail.app has much better indexing and is faster than that, but compared to gmail where you can literally instantly search tens--probably hundreds--of thousands of messages? That's hard to beat... Scott On Jun 6, 2009, at 5:48 PM, Neil Davidson wrote: Far faster and far more features. Offline email handling isn't exactly possible with web based email either. Backup of your email is something a bit difficult to do as well. Especially with Gmail. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: 06 June 2009 12:11 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Frankly, I don't understand why anyone still uses Outlook or any other stand alone email client.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't support an application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use. If you have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support forums for *those* applications. That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with your TV. Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the TV to support you with it. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: 04 June 2009 23:13 To: Hardware Group Subject: [H] I missed something along the way? Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) Best, Duncan
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Meh, I'm not so hot on gmail. I much prefer the hosted Exchange servie i use so all my contacts, calendar and inbox are synconised between Outlook on my desktop and laptop, my windows mobile handset, and webmail. And if I have a problem I actually get support from a real person within an hour of asking. Try getting that from a free service if you are having problem with your account. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Joe User Sent: 05 June 2009 05:31 To: DHSinclair Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Hello DHSinclair, Thursday, June 4, 2009, 5:51:03 PM, you wrote: Brian, I may happily/grudgingly do this:) Help to how to start would be a very big help. Sorry to be so pedestrian. Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and all the email related account business after the fact. Can do. Why is everyone so hot on GMail? Best, Duncan Gmail is great but you can secure a domain name or email service and just use a client you like. Lots of options out there. -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key... ...now these points of data make a beautiful line...
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has issues with their service and that IS a valid support request. A better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of their channels and the reason is some trickery that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company. All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly how to setup a given client but should simply point customers to the key info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software. Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in. Neil Davidson wrote: I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't support an application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use. If you have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support forums for *those* applications. That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with your TV. Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the TV to support you with it.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Not sure if this helps but I have had intermittent problems with Eudora ( not tbird) but use submissive port 587 for sending. works for me. Had to do that also on public WIFY systems for some reason (Disneyworld and at the airport) luck with it. Just cause they do not *support* it is no reason for it not to work, pop3 be pop3 Fred At 03:12 PM 6/4/2009, DHSinclair Poked the stick with: Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) Best, Duncan -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
In my experience, moving to cable from ATT DSL is probably worse as far as tech support. Mail clients often have very helpful user groups. I can't speak for Thunderbird or Eudora, but peer support for Outlook Express, Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail is especially strong. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: DHSinclair dx7...@bellsouth.net Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget)
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
The best way to find out if the problem is your email client or the service provider is to try a different client. Most PCs have OE available for testing purposes. I assure you if ATT was having widespread email issues I'd know about it. I have had ATT DSL/email for the past eight years, and it has been trouble-free for me. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: maccrawj maccr...@gmail.com No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has issues with their service and that IS a valid support request. A better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of their channels and the reason is some trickery that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company. All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly how to setup a given client but should simply point customers to the key info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software. Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
I agree, the ads in webmail are inexcusable for paying customers. But I always use POP/SMTP, so I don't see the ads. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: JRS stei...@pacbell.net I think it's even more devious than that... they want us all on Web-based mail so they force-feed us advertising. I called to complain when they added ads to mine last year because after all, I already *pay* them a monthly fee to be my ISP. The complaint fell on deaf ears.. :(
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Gary, I can certainly appreciate your focus. But, perhaps, somehow you are not seeing the grief many of us new2ATT.net folks now see now that ATT seems to use Yahoo as their mail service provider. Yes, I do understand a trial of OE. It is part of XP. I fully expect it to work perfectly; just because it is a MS product. No different than using some flavor of Outlook which ATT fully supports and has told me to use. I suppose that since I only spend ~$1020/yr for ATT's 2-wire CU services for phone and dsl, I do not have much of a voice. Fair call. Additionally, after some 7 hours on the Mozilla/ThunderBird forums (thanks Neil!), I find that this recent ATT change of mail service provider has caused the same troubles with users of PACBELL.net, SBCglobal.net, and, now with BellSouth.net (me). The consensus within the TBird community is that ATT has REQUIRED new POP and SMTP settings that for some reason ATT servers do not play nice with (yet?). Like the SSL business. I have some workarounds. For the most part, I am now working. All I need to fix now is sending attachments outbound. This could be my ESET A/V, and, I know how to test this; but, I still have more study to do. Please, thank you for all your replies. I never wished to get into the guts of POP and SMTP servers. I thought these devices were like other standards. Apparently not; so I read now. I am still reading. Best, Duncan Gary VanderMolen wrote: The best way to find out if the problem is your email client or the service provider is to try a different client. Most PCs have OE available for testing purposes. I assure you if ATT was having widespread email issues I'd know about it. I have had ATT DSL/email for the past eight years, and it has been trouble-free for me. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- From: maccrawj maccr...@gmail.com No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has issues with their service and that IS a valid support request. A better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of their channels and the reason is some trickery that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company. All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly how to setup a given client but should simply point customers to the key info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software. Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Not to change the topic, but if you do decide to switch to gmail (which, I might add, gives you the freedom to change ISPs without worrying about losing your email address!) they have very nice instructions for how to setup thunderbird: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=86399 Scott On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:43 PM, DSinc wrote: j., Thankyou for your rejoiner to Neil. I've sat here for 7 hours trying to figure out how to answer Neil. I understand his point. You said it right to my read. Exactly. I do not want to buy a special TV! Neil, Thanks for the reminder to visit the Thunderbird forums. I am not alone. Many folk are having the same trouble all over the USA! The common factor so far is ATT.net somehow. I am still reading. :) Best, Duncan maccrawj wrote: No, he's asking for support of WHY standard RFC compliant software has issues with their service and that IS a valid support request. A better analogy would be asking the cable co why a standard TV can't get one of their channels and the reason is some trickery that requires a more brain dead set made by their favorite tv company. All this crap about we don't support x is BS. They may not no exactly how to setup a given client but should simply point customers to the key info and be prepared when the SERVER they chose to use doesn't play nice with the mainstream software. Bottom line is they all want us on webmail because there is no need to support setting that up. I'd do gmail web in a pinch, but certainly not my normal method given I can POP or IMAP in. Neil Davidson wrote: I'm not sure I follow. You are complaining that your ISP won't support an application that they have no connection to at all? Granted they are providing the email account, but it is up to you what app you use. If you have issues with ThunderBird or Eudora then contact the support forums for *those* applications. That's like asking your electricity supplier about a problem with your TV. Sure it uses electricity, but it is up to the manufacturer of the TV to support you with it.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I suggested a test with OE only for the purpose of trying to narrow down where the problem is, server-side or client-side. Until you know for sure, you'd be stabbing in the dark. Incidentally, I come from the sbcglobal.net side of ATT's house, and am very familiar with the recent changes. Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) -- I can certainly appreciate your focus. But, perhaps, somehow you are not seeing the grief many of us new2ATT.net folks now see now that ATT seems to use Yahoo as their mail service provider. Yes, I do understand a trial of OE. It is part of XP. I fully expect it to work perfectly; just because it is a MS product. No different than using some flavor of Outlook which ATT fully supports and has told me to use. I suppose that since I only spend ~$1020/yr for ATT's 2-wire CU services for phone and dsl, I do not have much of a voice. Fair call. Additionally, after some 7 hours on the Mozilla/ThunderBird forums (thanks Neil!), I find that this recent ATT change of mail service provider has caused the same troubles with users of PACBELL.net, SBCglobal.net, and, now with BellSouth.net (me). The consensus within the TBird community is that ATT has REQUIRED new POP and SMTP settings that for some reason ATT servers do not play nice with (yet?). Like the SSL business. I have some workarounds. For the most part, I am now working. All I need to fix now is sending attachments outbound. This could be my ESET A/V, and, I know how to test this; but, I still have more study to do.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail.
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Hope not fp At 05:50 PM 6/5/2009, Winterlight Poked the stick with: At 03:25 PM 6/5/2009, you wrote: Email has had to evolve over the years. What worked 5 years ago may not work today. ATT/Yahoo has been shifting over to newer servers that require SSL and high-numbered ports (465/995). They are not alone. Comcast has gradually been dropping all support for port 25 SMTP. These changes in email standards are being mandated by the newer RFCs and the ever increasing onslaught of spammers and phishers. I think that it is just a matter of time until we all have to use online web interface email unless you are using something like Outlook tied into Hotmail. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- One day I'm a windshield, the next day a bug thereon.
[H] I missed something along the way?
Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) Best, Duncan
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair dx7...@bellsouth.net wrote: Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) Best, Duncan
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Brian, I may happily/grudgingly do this:) Help to how to start would be a very big help. Sorry to be so pedestrian. Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and all the email related account business after the fact. Can do. Why is everyone so hot on GMail? Best, Duncan Brian Weeden wrote: Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair dx7...@bellsouth.net wrote: Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) Best, Duncan
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Hello DHSinclair, Thursday, June 4, 2009, 5:51:03 PM, you wrote: Brian, I may happily/grudgingly do this:) Help to how to start would be a very big help. Sorry to be so pedestrian. Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and all the email related account business after the fact. Can do. Why is everyone so hot on GMail? Best, Duncan Gmail is great but you can secure a domain name or email service and just use a client you like. Lots of options out there. -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key... ...now these points of data make a beautiful line...
Re: [H] I missed something along the way?
Everyone is hot on Gmail because Gmail is hot! :) -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:51 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] I missed something along the way? Brian, I may happily/grudgingly do this:) Help to how to start would be a very big help. Sorry to be so pedestrian. Should I go GMail, then I have to tell Jim/Brian about the switch, and all the email related account business after the fact. Can do. Why is everyone so hot on GMail? Best, Duncan Brian Weeden wrote: Happy gmail user here for 5 years now and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Highly suggest you ditch it all and just use that. --- Brian Weeden Technical Advisor Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada +1 (202) 683-8534 US On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:12 PM, DHSinclair dx7...@bellsouth.net wrote: Somehow I am now told that should I choose to continue to use either ThunderBird or Eudora as a LOCAL email client, I will NOT get any support from my ISP. Believe my ISP is ATT/BellSouth. All pointers are to go to the Web-Based Yahoo/Email/com location. Should I wish to get any support, I need to pay $29 to speak to a human that MAY be able to fix my silly little quibble. Odd, too; because I already pay Att/BellSouth $33/mo for xdsl service. Find it odd that I have to pay $29 to figure out why I can not send a reply-to-w/attachment or forward type email. Plain-text to the List is fine; so far.. Bitches are not necessary; I am already HOT! And looking now at cable (which was NEVER part of the budget) Best, Duncan
