Re: [H] Any more comments on system?
Latest iteration for $1565, not counting possibly $80 rebate. This take advantage of some serious instant discounts and combo deals! I guess I decide to spend more (if I spend anything) to get something competitive. I saw a RTS game that might be fun, as I don't do FPSers. (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower (1) CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) (2) Open Box: SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA (1) SABRENT CRW-UINB 52-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 (1) LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-06 - Retail $40 (1) ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616A3T OEM - OEM $19 (1) EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (1) EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (1) Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 ATX12V / EPS12V 1000W Power Supply - Retail (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Re: [H] Any more comments on system?
Gah! No Nvidia motherboards! Sole reason EVER to get one is SLI, which is in itself patently stupid. Their I/O across the board is inferior to Intel's 3 series, especially southbridge (ICH9). Worse is they are overpriced. You have absolutely ZERO need for a 1000w power supply. Do not let anybody else fool you otherwise. Not now, not in 5 years. Get a seasonic PS, they make up to 650w with 80% efficiency and use a much quiter 120mm fan. Otherwise you completely negate the advantage of the P182. And to nitpick, the corsair stuff only works as advertised when overvolting the RAM. That's a big no no for me and I only use standard ram that works as JDEC spec as per the chipset requirments (in the case of Intel 3 series, DDR-800 @ 5-5-5-18). The 3% advantage in speed using overvolted lower CAS memory will only delight those who love running theoretical benchmarks all day. From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Any more comments on system? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:42:53 -0400 Latest iteration for $1565, not counting possibly $80 rebate. This take advantage of some serious instant discounts and combo deals! I guess I decide to spend more (if I spend anything) to get something competitive. I saw a RTS game that might be fun, as I don't do FPSers. (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower (1) CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) (2) Open Box: SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA (1) SABRENT CRW-UINB 52-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 (1) LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-06 - Retail $40 (1) ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616A3T OEM - OEM $19 (1) EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (1) EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (1) Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 ATX12V / EPS12V 1000W Power Supply - Retail (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail _ Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
(1) EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail No way in hell you'd ever get me to buy another 680i board with Intel's P35 Express available. Sad, too...680i's feature set is matched only by its general bugginess. (1) Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 ATX12V / EPS12V 1000W Power Supply - Retail 1KW is seriously overkill...a 600 or 700W makes far more sense, and still leaves room to grow. (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower ... (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail Buying two cases? :) Greg
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
And to nitpick, the corsair stuff only works as advertised when overvolting the RAM. That's a big no no for me and I only use standard ram that works as JDEC spec as per the chipset requirments (in the case of Intel 3 series, DDR-800 @ 5-5-5-18). The 3% advantage in speed using overvolted lower CAS memory will only delight those who love running theoretical benchmarks all day. ...only if you buy memory that is rated beyond JEDEC timings/frequencies. If that kit is Corsair's standard CAS5 PC2-6400, it's rated at 1.8vdimm. Of course, the argument can be made that if you're buying JEDEC standard memory anyway, you might be able to save money by going to a more generic brand. The only remaining issue is compatibility. Seems like memory compatibility gets worse with each generation of chipsets/boards...and is why I'll only mate memory to a board that's on the manufacturer's recommended list. Greg
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
From: Greg Sevart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Any more comments on system? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:03:17 -0500 And to nitpick, the corsair stuff only works as advertised when overvolting the RAM. That's a big no no for me and I only use standard ram that works as JDEC spec as per the chipset requirments (in the case of Intel 3 series, DDR-800 @ 5-5-5-18). The 3% advantage in speed using overvolted lower CAS memory will only delight those who love running theoretical benchmarks all day. ...only if you buy memory that is rated beyond JEDEC timings/frequencies. If that kit is Corsair's standard CAS5 PC2-6400, it's rated at 1.8vdimm. They are: http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/xms2.aspx He is choosing the XMS line, which has never to my knowledge offered true low latency at the SPD ROM level at standard voltages. Even the *CAS 5* stuff is rated at 1.8v. Pathetic if you ask me. course, the argument can be made that if you're buying JEDEC standard memory anyway, you might be able to save money by going to a more generic brand. The only remaining issue is compatibility. Seems like memory compatibility gets worse with each generation of chipsets/boards...and is why I'll only mate memory to a board that's on the manufacturer's recommended list. Yep. A policy to live by. I only use Intel retail desktop boards and likewise only use the validated memory listed right on the boards webpage. Validated by Intel's internal test labs: http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/genqual.htm _ Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft® Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
...only if you buy memory that is rated beyond JEDEC timings/frequencies. If that kit is Corsair's standard CAS5 PC2-6400, it's rated at 1.8vdimm. They are: http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/xms2.aspx He is choosing the XMS line, which has never to my knowledge offered true low latency at the SPD ROM level at standard voltages. Even the *CAS 5* stuff is rated at 1.8v. Pathetic if you ask me. This is, of course, not specific to Corsair--all lower-latency or higher-frequency memory requires more voltage. It is worth mentioning that ANY Corsair stick PC2-6400 or better will run the JEDEC-standard 5-5-5-18 timings at PC2-6400 speeds at JEDEC-standard 1.8vdimm. The additional voltage is only required if you want to hit the maximum rated-for speeds/timings. If you don't go over standard timings/speeds, you don't need to go over standard voltage. Greg
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
From: Greg Sevart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Any more comments on system? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:32:17 -0500 ...only if you buy memory that is rated beyond JEDEC timings/frequencies. If that kit is Corsair's standard CAS5 PC2-6400, it's rated at 1.8vdimm. They are: http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/xms2.aspx He is choosing the XMS line, which has never to my knowledge offered true low latency at the SPD ROM level at standard voltages. Even the *CAS 5* stuff is rated at 1.8v. Pathetic if you ask me. This is, of course, not specific to Corsair--all lower-latency or higher-frequency memory requires more voltage. It is worth mentioning that ANY Corsair stick PC2-6400 or better will run the JEDEC-standard 5-5-5-18 timings at PC2-6400 speeds at JEDEC-standard 1.8vdimm. The additional voltage is only required if you want to hit the maximum rated-for speeds/timings. If you don't go over standard timings/speeds, you don't need to go over standard voltage. Greg The XMS memory has these lower latencies *programmed into the SPD* - meaning if you do not adjust your voltage out of spec or manaully increase latencies to JDEC standards yourself, you are bound to experience some nasty instability. The advertising is at the very least misleading and slimy to say they are plug and play higher performing memory. _ Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft® Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0930003811mrt/direct/01/
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
The XMS memory has these lower latencies *programmed into the SPD* - meaning if you do not adjust your voltage out of spec or manaully increase latencies to JDEC standards yourself, you are bound to experience some nasty instability. The advertising is at the very least misleading and slimy to say they are plug and play higher performing memory. No, the SPD is programmed to JEDEC-standard 5-5-5-18 at 400MHz. They have to be to be compatible with motherboards. That being said, EPP (which is an extension of SPD but is separate) can contain the tighter timings (and the voltage) for those timings. But all of these sticks have standard SPD programming at 5-5-5-18. Motherboards that are not EPP-aware never attempt to read it because they don't know how to get to it. Greg
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
From: Greg Sevart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Any more comments on system? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:10:05 -0500 The XMS memory has these lower latencies *programmed into the SPD* - meaning if you do not adjust your voltage out of spec or manaully increase latencies to JDEC standards yourself, you are bound to experience some nasty instability. The advertising is at the very least misleading and slimy to say they are plug and play higher performing memory. No, the SPD is programmed to JEDEC-standard 5-5-5-18 at 400MHz. They have to be to be compatible with motherboards. That being said, EPP (which is an extension of SPD but is separate) can contain the tighter timings (and the voltage) for those timings. But all of these sticks have standard SPD programming at 5-5-5-18. Motherboards that are not EPP-aware never attempt to read it because they don't know how to get to it. Greg Ok I see that they now use nvidia's EPP to segment out-of-spec values from JDEC on some of their memory. This is NOT the case with many different models. You can see a list of current memory that has custom timings directly in SPD vs having separate EPP and SPD values: http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52348Corsair _ Share your special parenting moments! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us
Re: [H] Any more comments on system?
Is there a particular intel board that's recommended? By comparison, they seem rather bland compared to the nVidia offerings. The DFI broad that costs $300 is the most interesting, but a lot to pay. Intels mobos seem very boring. The reason I opted for the larger PC is the cost jump from 650 to 1000 is about $40 with current combo deals. However, I did forget to consider the increase noise, which I'd definitely not want. I've read teh other post between you and Greg on the Ram. What's the bottom line there? 2 GB for $105 doesn't seem like a bad deal, as long as it works. If I'm willing to spend $350 - $400 on a video card, is the 8800GTS (640MB) best or the 2900XT (512MB, 512bit)? MaxPC Oct seems to show the 2900XT whupping up on the 8800GTS. Hayes Elkins wrote: Gah! No Nvidia motherboards! Sole reason EVER to get one is SLI, which is in itself patently stupid. Their I/O across the board is inferior to Intel's 3 series, especially southbridge (ICH9). Worse is they are overpriced. You have absolutely ZERO need for a 1000w power supply. Do not let anybody else fool you otherwise. Not now, not in 5 years. Get a seasonic PS, they make up to 650w with 80% efficiency and use a much quiter 120mm fan. Otherwise you completely negate the advantage of the P182. And to nitpick, the corsair stuff only works as advertised when overvolting the RAM. That's a big no no for me and I only use standard ram that works as JDEC spec as per the chipset requirments (in the case of Intel 3 series, DDR-800 @ 5-5-5-18). The 3% advantage in speed using overvolted lower CAS memory will only delight those who love running theoretical benchmarks all day. From: Anthony Q. Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Any more comments on system? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:42:53 -0400 Latest iteration for $1565, not counting possibly $80 rebate. This take advantage of some serious instant discounts and combo deals! I guess I decide to spend more (if I spend anything) to get something competitive. I saw a RTS game that might be fun, as I don't do FPSers. (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower (1) CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) (2) Open Box: SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA (1) SABRENT CRW-UINB 52-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 (1) LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-06 - Retail $40 (1) ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616A3T OEM - OEM $19 (1) EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (1) EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (1) Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 ATX12V / EPS12V 1000W Power Supply - Retail (1) Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail _ Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
Is there a particular intel board that's recommended? By comparison, they seem rather bland compared to the nVidia offerings. The DFI broad that costs $300 is the most interesting, but a lot to pay. Intels mobos seem very boring. I don't use Intel boards for precisely that reason--bland feature sets, and Intel likes to use them to push their own zero-legacy agenda. While on a philosophical level that's okay, it becomes a practical problem. I personally really like Gigabyte's P35 Express lineup, but some are sold on the Asus...either would be acceptable. The reason I opted for the larger PC is the cost jump from 650 to 1000 is about $40 with current combo deals. However, I did forget to consider the increase noise, which I'd definitely not want. SeaSonic 700W FTW. :) I've read teh other post between you and Greg on the Ram. What's the bottom line there? 2 GB for $105 doesn't seem like a bad deal, as long as it works. Honestly, it doesn't much matter, so long as you buy JEDEC-standard memory that's listed in your motherboard model's compatibility sheet. I've seen too many dead high-end memory sticks ran at higher voltage (but within the DRAM-packager's ratings) to recommend anything other than vanilla 1.8vdimm JEDEC memory. Of course, I've seen some high-end memory manage to hit tighter timings/higher clocks with no voltage increase, too...
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] Any more comments on system? Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:51:54 -0500 No, the SPD is programmed to JEDEC-standard 5-5-5-18 at 400MHz. They have to be to be compatible with motherboards. That being said, EPP (which is an extension of SPD but is separate) can contain the tighter timings (and the voltage) for those timings. But all of these sticks have standard SPD programming at 5-5-5-18. Motherboards that are not EPP-aware never attempt to read it because they don't know how to get to it.GregOk I see that they now use nvidia's EPP to segment out-of-spec values from JDEC on some of their memory. This is NOT the case with many different models.You can see a list of current memory that has custom timings directly in SPD vs having separate EPP and SPD values: http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52348Corsair Interesting, I didn't realize that they'd released memory that DIDN'T have the JEDEC-standard values set in the SPD. However, with the exception of the XM2S8000UL parts, it looks like all of their memory that DOES require more voltage to hit the rated speed/timings do include standard JEDEC-spec SPD values. Makes sense--for non-EPP boards, you want the sticks to at least boot the first time. :) Greg Actually quite a bit on that list do NOT use JEDEC SPD values, the notorious and extremely popular 3200XL (Xtreme Low Latency, not made anymore) are 2-2-2-5 in SPD (JEDEC is 2-3-2-6) and required overvoltage. This memory kit alone caused a lot of heartaches and probably pushed the EPP initiative forward. _ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us
RE: [H] Any more comments on system?
Interesting, I didn't realize that they'd released memory that DIDN'T have the JEDEC-standard values set in the SPD. However, with the exception of the XM2S8000UL parts, it looks like all of their memory that DOES require more voltage to hit the rated speed/timings do include standard JEDEC-spec SPD values. Makes sense--for non-EPP boards, you want the sticks to at least boot the first time. :) Greg Actually quite a bit on that list do NOT use JEDEC SPD values, the notorious and extremely popular 3200XL (Xtreme Low Latency, not made anymore) are 2-2-2-5 in SPD (JEDEC is 2-3-2-6) and required overvoltage. This memory kit alone caused a lot of heartaches and probably pushed the EPP initiative forward. I wasn't counting the DDR sticks, only DDR2. My only problem with higher voltages on memory is that the high-performance DDR2 ICs (almost universally the Micron D9GMH, which incidentally are rated for 333MHz 5-5-5 at 1.8v...) don't seem to be capable of handling the voltages long-term. Regular DDR ICs were quite a bit more tolerant. Of course, any stick of memory should at least be able to do the SPD values at JEDEC-voltage for POST. But yes, you are likely correct--the impetus for EPP was to prevent those potential headaches. Greg
