Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). Right, but included w/ an app. And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? Heh. Good question. My concern is that it's not *indepdentently* redistributable (just like sun's binaries like javamail aren't). However I don't know, and asked my question to motivate someone to take a look. Worst case, we point to where people can go get it and make that step manual. I assume anyone w/ a modern MSFT toolchain would already have it? geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Tim Ellison wrote: The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this file _independent_ of the application? That's my concern. geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Well, so I have another question, if our concern is just whether the msvcr71.dll can be redistributable _independently_, why we need to download it rather than distributing it with Harmony? Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this file _independent_ of the application? That's my concern. geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Paulex Yang China Software Development Lab IBM
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
I have no worries that we can re-distribute. It would be insane if we couldn't. But I don't want to be setting up and distributing software - our build system - that is a mechanism for contributory infringement of Microsoft's license agreement by automatically pulling down the .dll from a source that is in violation of that license. geir Paulex Yang wrote: Well, so I have another question, if our concern is just whether the msvcr71.dll can be redistributable _independently_, why we need to download it rather than distributing it with Harmony? Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this file _independent_ of the application? That's my concern. geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
I agree with Geir. For now, it would be safer to put it back in svn and not download it. Tim, if you back this out, can you leave the macrodef and other changes in place in make/depends.xml? Regards, Mark. On 3/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no worries that we can re-distribute. It would be insane if we couldn't. But I don't want to be setting up and distributing software - our build system - that is a mechanism for contributory infringement of Microsoft's license agreement by automatically pulling down the .dll from a source that is in violation of that license. geir Paulex Yang wrote: Well, so I have another question, if our concern is just whether the msvcr71.dll can be redistributable _independently_, why we need to download it rather than distributing it with Harmony? Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this file _independent_ of the application? That's my concern. geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre,
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). Right, but included w/ an app. And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? Heh. Good question. My concern is that it's not *indepdentently* redistributable (just like sun's binaries like javamail aren't). However I don't know, and asked my question to motivate someone to take a look. Look where? I don't see anything to prevent it in the VisualC++ files or on MSDN -- in fact, my reading of the EULA is that it is ok (but IANAL etc). Regards, Tim Worst case, we point to where people can go get it and make that step manual. I assume anyone w/ a modern MSFT toolchain would already have it? geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Mark Hindess wrote: I agree with Geir. For now, it would be safer to put it back in svn and not download it. Hmm, I don't get it -- why would it be ok for Apache to make it available independently via SVN? Regards, Tim Tim, if you back this out, can you leave the macrodef and other changes in place in make/depends.xml? Regards, Mark. On 3/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no worries that we can re-distribute. It would be insane if we couldn't. But I don't want to be setting up and distributing software - our build system - that is a mechanism for contributory infringement of Microsoft's license agreement by automatically pulling down the .dll from a source that is in violation of that license. geir Paulex Yang wrote: Well, so I have another question, if our concern is just whether the msvcr71.dll can be redistributable _independently_, why we need to download it rather than distributing it with Harmony? Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this file _independent_ of the application? That's my concern. geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. --
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
The text I have seen implies that distributing with the application is ok and in svn is as close as we can get to that. -Mark. On 3/31/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Hindess wrote: I agree with Geir. For now, it would be safer to put it back in svn and not download it. Hmm, I don't get it -- why would it be ok for Apache to make it available independently via SVN? Regards, Tim Tim, if you back this out, can you leave the macrodef and other changes in place in make/depends.xml? Regards, Mark. On 3/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no worries that we can re-distribute. It would be insane if we couldn't. But I don't want to be setting up and distributing software - our build system - that is a mechanism for contributory infringement of Microsoft's license agreement by automatically pulling down the .dll from a source that is in violation of that license. geir Paulex Yang wrote: Well, so I have another question, if our concern is just whether the msvcr71.dll can be redistributable _independently_, why we need to download it rather than distributing it with Harmony? Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed, The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual Studio for redistribution;... ... msvcr71.dll ... and the MSDN website [1] says: An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in the system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable. So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. dlldump.com) redistribute this file? Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this file _independent_ of the application? That's my concern. geir [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp Regards, Tim Paulex Yang wrote: I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
As far as I undersood the dll file in not distributed alone. Dot NET redistributable package on microsoft.com [1] contains it but the package size is 23Mb. Thanks, Stepan. [1] http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=262d25e3-f589-4842-8157-034d1e7cf3a3DisplayLang=en On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Thanks, Stepan Mishura Intel Middleware Products Division
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as well as open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say, wincvs, ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases). And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section3.1, below. but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says: There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.) included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries designated with the suffix .lib) will be automatically linked to your program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and linker. Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program is acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries standalone - on their own. While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable, the VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only VisualStudio user can redistribute it? [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for that dll? Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app that uses it? Where else can people get it? Tim Ellison wrote: Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess wrote: I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though I'd be happy to be corrected. It was the first hit on the google search I did - or the first that didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download. It's trivial to change if you find a better source. I was careful to make sure the file it served had the md5sum of the file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be a little more confident of its validity. Regards, -Mark. On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is www.dlldump.com our chosen supplier? I've never heard of them. I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on the microsoft.com website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure we get the right thing; any idea about reliability etc. Regards, Tim Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote: download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it Key: HARMONY-282 URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282 Project: Harmony Type: Improvement Components: Classlib Reporter: Mark Hindess Priority: Trivial Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it. -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. -- Mark Hindess [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Java Technology Centre, UK. -- Paulex Yang China Software Development Lab IBM
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
This file exists on my windows + free soft only machine For example it presents in Microsoft .NET Framework Thanks, Mikhail
Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Yes, it is included in .Net framework, but I'm not sure if it is included in pure 32 bits Windows distribution. I guess it is not perfect to make our potential user into another JRE like situation, which is, if you want to run Harmony, you must download .Net Framework manually and separately. That's why so many application redistribute this dll. It is good only if either all mainstream windows distribution includes this dll (like kernel32.dll), or this MSVCR71.dll is freely redistributable, or we can perform the download automatically during installation without procedure like Sun's JRE download. Mikhail Loenko wrote: This file exists on my windows + free soft only machine For example it presents in Microsoft .NET Framework Thanks, Mikhail -- Paulex Yang China Software Development Lab IBM
