[Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
I made a preliminary page, and fleshed out some of the headers/sub-headers on the wiki page for a good Haskell Cookbook (aka NOT a PLEAC clone). Please contribute and/or fix the examples and explanations so we can make a really nice Cookbook for newbies. :) http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cookbook ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
and can I please ask anyone thinking of using special symbols to resist the temptation. Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are totally invisible to screen readers. I would be happy to proof read any document before it goes to the wikibook to ensure it's fully accessible to screen readers. Regards, Paul At 03:17 22/02/2007, you wrote: I made a preliminary page, and fleshed out some of the headers/sub-headers on the wiki page for a good Haskell Cookbook (aka NOT a PLEAC clone). Please contribute and/or fix the examples and explanations so we can make a really nice Cookbook for newbies. :) http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cookbook ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
I second this plea. -- Jeff On Wednesday 21 February 2007 22:34, P. R. Stanley wrote: > and can I please ask anyone thinking of using special symbols to > resist the temptation. > Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are > totally invisible to screen readers. > I would be happy to proof read any document before it goes to the > wikibook to ensure it's fully accessible to screen readers. > > Regards, > Paul > > At 03:17 22/02/2007, you wrote: > >I made a preliminary page, and fleshed out some of the > >headers/sub-headers on the wiki page for a good Haskell Cookbook > >(aka NOT a PLEAC clone). Please contribute and/or fix the examples > >and explanations so we can make a really nice Cookbook for newbies. :) > > > > http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cookbook > > > >___ > >Haskell-Cafe mailing list > >Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > >http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
Andrew and co, I have a big fat apology to make. It was actually the wikipedia page on Lambda Calculus where there are many occurrences of special symbols. The Wikibook, as far as I've explored, is fully accessible. Nonetheless, I'd still be more than happy to make my contributions in any way I can. I am a beginner to functional programming and so I could play a useful role in ensuring the text takes nothing for granted with regard to the fundamental principles and beyond. As a tip for anyone involved in writing and publishing scientific materials on the web, unless the maths is either written without any funny symbols or, better still, typeset in latex, it is not accessible to a screen-reader. One small point about the Haskell source code is that the column indentations do not always appear in the screen reader browse buffer. Of course, there are ways of getting around the issue and if the author of the Wikibook is interested we could discuss the details off list. Cheers, Paul At 16:22 22/02/2007, you wrote: Can you guys point out an example of this in the wiki book? I've never heard of this accessibility issue. I may even be willing to go back through and modify the wikibook to make it more accessible of you can explain what you're referring to. Accessibility is important to me. On 2/21/07, P. R. Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: and can I please ask anyone thinking of using special symbols to resist the temptation. Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are totally invisible to screen readers. I would be happy to proof read any document before it goes to the wikibook to ensure it's fully accessible to screen readers. Regards, Paul At 03:17 22/02/2007, you wrote: >I made a preliminary page, and fleshed out some of the >headers/sub-headers on the wiki page for a good Haskell Cookbook >(aka NOT a PLEAC clone). Please contribute and/or fix the examples >and explanations so we can make a really nice Cookbook for newbies. :) > > http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cookbook > >___ >Haskell-Cafe mailing list >Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org >http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
Call me a technophile, but it saddens me that ASCII has already held us back for too many decades, and looks like it will still hold us back for another. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On Fri, 2007-23-02 at 02:24 -0500, Albert Y. C. Lai wrote: > Call me a technophile, but it saddens me that ASCII has already held us > back for too many decades, and looks like it will still hold us back for > another. OK. You're a technophile. But I agree with you. ASCII needs to die a slow, brutal death. Quickly. (And yes, I'm aware of the contradiction. ;)) -- Michael T. Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Disclaimer: Any people who think that opinions expressed from my private email account in any way, shape or form are those of my employer have more lawyers at their beck and call than they do brain cells. smiley-4.png Description: PNG image signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:34:54 +, you wrote: >and can I please ask anyone thinking of using special symbols to >resist the temptation. >Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are >totally invisible to screen readers. I can understand the desire to avoid special characters, but out of curiosity, what exactly is the problem with screen readers and the NO BREAK SPACE character (which is pretty ubiquitous in HTML)? Steve Schafer Fenestra Technologies Corp. http://www.fenestra.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
Well, actually, I never cited the non-breaking space character as a problem. I'm referring to math symbols which do not get successfully translated into an intelligible symbol in the screen reader browse buffer. Regards, Paul At 17:46 23/02/2007, you wrote: On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:34:54 +, you wrote: >and can I please ask anyone thinking of using special symbols to >resist the temptation. >Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are >totally invisible to screen readers. I can understand the desire to avoid special characters, but out of curiosity, what exactly is the problem with screen readers and the NO BREAK SPACE character (which is pretty ubiquitous in HTML)? Steve Schafer Fenestra Technologies Corp. http://www.fenestra.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:09:15 +, you wrote: >Well, actually, I never cited the non-breaking space character as a >problem. Well, actually, you did: >Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are >totally invisible to screen readers. = NO BREAK SPACE Which is why I asked specifically about that. Steve Schafer Fenestra Technologies Corp. http://www.fenestra.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
So that's what it is! I wondered why alt-num-0160 only produced a space character. Still, as I said originally, it is totally invisible in the browse buffer. Anyway, are you one of the authors of the wikibook Or, are you just offering your assistance? All the best Paul At 19:03 23/02/2007, you wrote: On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:09:15 +, you wrote: >Well, actually, I never cited the non-breaking space character as a >problem. Well, actually, you did: >Symbols such as the &160 used liberally in the Haskell wikibook are >totally invisible to screen readers. = NO BREAK SPACE Which is why I asked specifically about that. Steve Schafer Fenestra Technologies Corp. http://www.fenestra.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
P. R. Stanley wrote: > I'm referring to math symbols which do not get successfully > translated into an intelligible symbol in the screen reader browse buffer. Is there a way to make the symbols both look right on a screen and sound right from a screen reader? E.g., Σ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
In the wonderful tradition of a contemporaneously have-able and edible pie, one can have two versions of a page -- with lovely calculus symbols or their horribly debauched ASCII remains -- and a button to switch. Heck, one can have a Greasemonkey script to eat the page toggle that and leave the page alone. Wiki has the pie, Greasemonkey eats it. Cheers, Alexy ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 19:42:27 +, you wrote: >So that's what it is! I wondered why alt-num-0160 only produced a >space character. Still, as I said originally, it is totally invisible >in the browse buffer. >Anyway, are you one of the authors of the wikibook Or, are you just >offering your assistance? Neither, just curious. While I can see how some characters might cause problems, I couldn't understand why non-breaking spaces would. Steve Schafer Fenestra Technologies Corp. http://www.fenestra.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On Fri, Feb 23, 2007 at 03:07:18PM -0500, Seth Gordon wrote: > P. R. Stanley wrote: > > I'm referring to math symbols which do not get successfully > > translated into an intelligible symbol in the screen reader browse buffer. > > Is there a way to make the symbols both look right on a screen and sound > right from a screen reader? yes, by employing document translation this is often the purpose of employing docbook or another document-oriented schema - you down-translate into xhtml, pdf, ascii, etc these down-translations can often be performed with available tools down-translating for a screen reader implies maintaining some sort of association of entities to literal chars/phrase etc. its likely that users of these screen readers know the capabilities of the tools and are likely best to provide this function removing all glyphs which cannot come out of a screen reader is not a viable solution - xhtml markup adds real value for 99.9% of users. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On 23/02/07, P. R. Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a tip for anyone involved in writing and publishing scientific materials on the web, unless the maths is either written without any funny symbols or, better still, typeset in latex, it is not accessible to a screen-reader. I was under the impression that modern screen readers could pronounce Unicode characters by looking up their name. I.e., your would get read as 'Non-breaking space' (perhaps a bad example, this one wouldn't want to be read out due to its abuse as a layout tool, which would make reading old pages very awkward). I don't see how images are going to be much better? I suppose images do, on MediaWiki, have an alt text which is their LaTeX, but I'd hate to have to have that read to me. If you're interested in talking to the authors of the wikibook, subscribe to the wikibook@haskell.org mailing list. -- -David House, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
As a tip for anyone involved in writing and publishing scientific materials on the web, unless the maths is either written without any funny symbols or, better still, typeset in latex, it is not accessible to a screen-reader. I was under the impression that modern screen readers could pronounce Unicode characters by looking up their name. I.e., your would get read as 'Non-breaking space' (perhaps a bad example, this one wouldn't want to be read out due to its abuse as a layout tool, which would make reading old pages very awkward). I don't see how images are going to be much better? I suppose images do, on MediaWiki, have an alt text which is their LaTeX, but I'd hate to have to have that read to me. I think latex is the perfect solution to the problem. It is perhaps the only 100 percent accessible medium available right now. It doesn't require any special software to read. All it needs is a simple text editor. Latex is a well-established tool/medium in the world-wide scientific community and therefore its inclusion in the Haskell wikibook or any other scientific document along with the unicode characters and image files would be potentially beneficial to everyone. Paul If you're interested in talking to the authors of the wikibook, subscribe to the wikibook@haskell.org mailing list. -- -David House, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
Is there a way to make the symbols both look right on a screen and sound right from a screen reader? E.g., Σ In theory the title attribute should be the adequate yet simple solution we're after. Sadly, in reality this 'aint the case. The title attribute works beautifully in list and table elements. Having read some of the posts I've come to the conclusion that the addition of Latex source code along with the unicode stuff may be the best way forward. I am, however, still open to new ideas. So please don't hesitate to keep them coming. By the way guys, if we're straying off-topic here please feel free to drop me a line privately. Best wishes Paul ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
Hey everyone, we added some examples to this page. There are some topics that don't have any examples, notably: # 11 Network Programming # 12 XML * 12.1 Parsing XML # 13 Databases * 13.1 MySQL * 13.2 PostgreSQL * 13.3 SQLite # 14 FFI * 14.1 How to interface with C If anyone feels like filling up some of those sections, that would be great. -chris On 21 Feb, 2007, at 20:17 , Martin Bishop wrote: I made a preliminary page, and fleshed out some of the headers/sub- headers on the wiki page for a good Haskell Cookbook (aka NOT a PLEAC clone). Please contribute and/or fix the examples and explanations so we can make a really nice Cookbook for newbies. :) http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Cookbook ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] A "real" Haskell Cookbook
On 2/26/07, Chris Eidhof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey everyone, we added some examples to this page. There are some topics that don't have any examples, notably: # 11 Network Programming # 12 XML * 12.1 Parsing XML # 13 Databases * 13.1 MySQL * 13.2 PostgreSQL * 13.3 SQLite # 14 FFI * 14.1 How to interface with C If anyone feels like filling up some of those sections, that would be great. I'd also suggest adding * 4.4 Regular expressions * 4.5 Interpolation martin ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
