Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
Am Samstag, 7. März 2009 18:49 schrieb Roman Cheplyaka: > Great! I'll have more free time after March 15, and we can arrange an > IRC meeting to discuss this. I’d be happy if you would also invite me to this IRC meeting when it will finally happen. Best wishes, Wolfgang ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: 3D Rendering Engine in Haskell (Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics)
2009/3/8 Peter Verswyvelen > Of course I write everything in haskell! I mean about Ogre that i use only >> it's model and material formats and none of its code. Thats all. > > > That's a big relief :-) Will it all be in the IO monad, or do you aim for a > pure interface? > I prefer pure interface. > >> Yes, later I'd like to write a collada importer. :) > > > Super. If I find the time I could help with both projects since I've done a > lot of OGRE hacking and wrote a small collada importer, albeit in C# > Cooperation would be great! > > > >> >> >> 2009/3/8 Peter Verswyvelen >> >> Awesome! >>> When you say you took Ogre as a base, do you mean your engine will be >>> able to load the meshes and material files, or are you also wrapping the C++ >>> code base? >>> >>> Did you also consider Collada? >>> >>> 2009/3/8 Csaba Hruska >>> Hi! This should be a bit offtopic, but now I'd like to announce that I'm working on a 3D rendering rengine in Haskell. I take ogre3d (www.ogre3d.org) as a base. My code can import import a subset of ogre model files (currently xml version) and material scripts (http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/manual/manual_14.html#SEC23). You can easily import an existing 3d content or create new one because there are ogre exporter plugins for every major modeler programs. Currently I have some working code. I hope I'll be ready to release it in a month. It should act as graphical backend for FRP libraries. I use yampa in the example program but it's just an option, only example program depends on it. Cheers, Csaba Hruska ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe >>> >> > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: 3D Rendering Engine in Haskell (Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics)
> > Of course I write everything in haskell! I mean about Ogre that i use only > it's model and material formats and none of its code. Thats all. That's a big relief :-) Will it all be in the IO monad, or do you aim for a pure interface? > > Yes, later I'd like to write a collada importer. :) Super. If I find the time I could help with both projects since I've done a lot of OGRE hacking and wrote a small collada importer, albeit in C# > > > 2009/3/8 Peter Verswyvelen > > Awesome! >> When you say you took Ogre as a base, do you mean your engine will be able >> to load the meshes and material files, or are you also wrapping the C++ code >> base? >> >> Did you also consider Collada? >> >> 2009/3/8 Csaba Hruska >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> This should be a bit offtopic, but now I'd like to announce that I'm >>> working on a 3D rendering rengine in Haskell. >>> I take ogre3d (www.ogre3d.org) as a base. My code can import import a >>> subset of ogre model files (currently xml version) and material scripts >>> (http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/manual/manual_14.html#SEC23). >>> You can easily import an existing 3d content or create new one because >>> there are ogre exporter plugins for every major modeler programs. >>> Currently I have some working code. I hope I'll be ready to release it in >>> a month. It should act as graphical backend for FRP libraries. >>> I use yampa in the example program but it's just an option, only example >>> program depends on it. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Csaba Hruska >>> >>> ___ >>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list >>> Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org >>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe >>> >>> >> > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: 3D Rendering Engine in Haskell (Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics)
Of course I write everything in haskell! I mean about Ogre that i use only it's model and material formats and none of its code. Thats all. Yes, later I'd like to write a collada importer. :) 2009/3/8 Peter Verswyvelen > Awesome! > When you say you took Ogre as a base, do you mean your engine will be able > to load the meshes and material files, or are you also wrapping the C++ code > base? > > Did you also consider Collada? > > 2009/3/8 Csaba Hruska > >> Hi! >> >> This should be a bit offtopic, but now I'd like to announce that I'm >> working on a 3D rendering rengine in Haskell. >> I take ogre3d (www.ogre3d.org) as a base. My code can import import a >> subset of ogre model files (currently xml version) and material scripts >> (http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/manual/manual_14.html#SEC23). >> You can easily import an existing 3d content or create new one because >> there are ogre exporter plugins for every major modeler programs. >> Currently I have some working code. I hope I'll be ready to release it in >> a month. It should act as graphical backend for FRP libraries. >> I use yampa in the example program but it's just an option, only example >> program depends on it. >> >> Cheers, >> Csaba Hruska >> >> ___ >> Haskell-Cafe mailing list >> Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org >> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe >> >> > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
3D Rendering Engine in Haskell (Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics)
Awesome! When you say you took Ogre as a base, do you mean your engine will be able to load the meshes and material files, or are you also wrapping the C++ code base? Did you also consider Collada? 2009/3/8 Csaba Hruska > Hi! > > This should be a bit offtopic, but now I'd like to announce that I'm > working on a 3D rendering rengine in Haskell. > I take ogre3d (www.ogre3d.org) as a base. My code can import import a > subset of ogre model files (currently xml version) and material scripts > (http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/manual/manual_14.html#SEC23). > You can easily import an existing 3d content or create new one because > there are ogre exporter plugins for every major modeler programs. > Currently I have some working code. I hope I'll be ready to release it in a > month. It should act as graphical backend for FRP libraries. > I use yampa in the example program but it's just an option, only example > program depends on it. > > Cheers, > Csaba Hruska > > ___ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe > > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
Hi! This should be a bit offtopic, but now I'd like to announce that I'm working on a 3D rendering rengine in Haskell. I take ogre3d (www.ogre3d.org) as a base. My code can import import a subset of ogre model files (currently xml version) and material scripts (http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/manual/manual_14.html#SEC23). You can easily import an existing 3d content or create new one because there are ogre exporter plugins for every major modeler programs. Currently I have some working code. I hope I'll be ready to release it in a month. It should act as graphical backend for FRP libraries. I use yampa in the example program but it's just an option, only example program depends on it. Cheers, Csaba Hruska ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
* Peter Verswyvelen [2009-03-08 12:00:23+0100] > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > > > * Peter Verswyvelen [2009-03-07 18:34:10+0100] > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Roman Cheplyaka > > wrote: > > > > > > Is it a performance issue? > > > > Yes. As Roman Leshchinskiy explained it's because parallel arrays are > > not fused properly yet. > > But it's quite trivial to modify Hpysics to use ordinary lists or > > arrays, and I think it'll give reasonable performance. > > > > Personally I would not mind too much about performance initially; I'm very > confident that lots of optimizations can be done afterwards - maybe even > letting the GPU handle certain tasks. I wouldn't mind too if it was just 'inefficient'; however, it's practically unusable. <> http://physics-dph.blogspot.com/2008/08/status-report-week-11-12.html -- Roman I. Cheplyaka :: http://ro-che.info/ "Don't let school get in the way of your education." - Mark Twain ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > * Peter Verswyvelen [2009-03-07 18:34:10+0100] > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Roman Cheplyaka > wrote: > > > > Is it a performance issue? > > Yes. As Roman Leshchinskiy explained it's because parallel arrays are > not fused properly yet. > But it's quite trivial to modify Hpysics to use ordinary lists or > arrays, and I think it'll give reasonable performance. > Personally I would not mind too much about performance initially; I'm very confident that lots of optimizations can be done afterwards - maybe even letting the GPU handle certain tasks. > > > > > Integrating hpysics with Grapefruit might be a good topic for the > > > Hackaton, > > > > trying to make a simple game (e.g. Pong or Breakout) without using > > > recursive > > > > signal functions, but with correct collision response and > > > better-than-Euler > > > > integration, all handled by the physics engine. Other FRP engines > could > > > be > > > > tried, but Grapefruit hacking is already a topic on the Hackaton, so > it > > > > would combine efforts. > > > > > > Yes, I'm actively pondering Hpysics+Grapefruit (it's the primary reason > > > of my interest in Grapefruit). But first of all we need to get graphics > > > support into Grapefruit. > > > > > > Does your proposal re Hackathon indicate that you'd like to join? > > > > > > > Yes, Thomas 'Bob' Davie and I already joined the Hackaton, but the wiki > is > > not yet updated.I see you've joined too, cool > > Great! I'll have more free time after March 15, and we can arrange an > IRC meeting to discuss this. Sounds like a good idea! > > > -- > Roman I. Cheplyaka :: http://ro-che.info/ > "Don't let school get in the way of your education." - Mark Twain > ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
* Peter Verswyvelen [2009-03-07 18:34:10+0100] > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > > > > The blog > > > seems to be inactive since december 2008; has development ceased? > > > > Sort of. One reason is that DPH does not seem to be ready for hpysics > > yet, another one is that I don't see any potential users around (read: I > > just need a kick in the ass). > > > > Is it a performance issue? Yes. As Roman Leshchinskiy explained it's because parallel arrays are not fused properly yet. But it's quite trivial to modify Hpysics to use ordinary lists or arrays, and I think it'll give reasonable performance. > > > Integrating hpysics with Grapefruit might be a good topic for the > > Hackaton, > > > trying to make a simple game (e.g. Pong or Breakout) without using > > recursive > > > signal functions, but with correct collision response and > > better-than-Euler > > > integration, all handled by the physics engine. Other FRP engines could > > be > > > tried, but Grapefruit hacking is already a topic on the Hackaton, so it > > > would combine efforts. > > > > Yes, I'm actively pondering Hpysics+Grapefruit (it's the primary reason > > of my interest in Grapefruit). But first of all we need to get graphics > > support into Grapefruit. > > > > Does your proposal re Hackathon indicate that you'd like to join? > > > > Yes, Thomas 'Bob' Davie and I already joined the Hackaton, but the wiki is > not yet updated.I see you've joined too, cool Great! I'll have more free time after March 15, and we can arrange an IRC meeting to discuss this. -- Roman I. Cheplyaka :: http://ro-che.info/ "Don't let school get in the way of your education." - Mark Twain ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
2009/3/6 Peter Verswyvelen : > Do alternatives exist? Maybe good wrappers (hopefully pure...) around > existing engines? There's Hipmunk, but it is not pure and not that good ;). But if you don't mess with the global variables (which you normally wouldn't mess anyway) then you can wrap everything in a separate monad with unsafePerformIO's, I guess. -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > > The blog > > seems to be inactive since december 2008; has development ceased? > > Sort of. One reason is that DPH does not seem to be ready for hpysics > yet, another one is that I don't see any potential users around (read: I > just need a kick in the ass). > Is it a performance issue? > > > Integrating hpysics with Grapefruit might be a good topic for the > Hackaton, > > trying to make a simple game (e.g. Pong or Breakout) without using > recursive > > signal functions, but with correct collision response and > better-than-Euler > > integration, all handled by the physics engine. Other FRP engines could > be > > tried, but Grapefruit hacking is already a topic on the Hackaton, so it > > would combine efforts. > > Yes, I'm actively pondering Hpysics+Grapefruit (it's the primary reason > of my interest in Grapefruit). But first of all we need to get graphics > support into Grapefruit. > > Does your proposal re Hackathon indicate that you'd like to join? > Yes, Thomas 'Bob' Davie and I already joined the Hackaton, but the wiki is not yet updated.I see you've joined too, cool ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
* Peter Verswyvelen [2009-03-06 11:17:50+0100] > Regarding hpysics, did anybody did some experiments with this? Nothing I'm aware of. > The blog > seems to be inactive since december 2008; has development ceased? Sort of. One reason is that DPH does not seem to be ready for hpysics yet, another one is that I don't see any potential users around (read: I just need a kick in the ass). > Integrating hpysics with Grapefruit might be a good topic for the Hackaton, > trying to make a simple game (e.g. Pong or Breakout) without using recursive > signal functions, but with correct collision response and better-than-Euler > integration, all handled by the physics engine. Other FRP engines could be > tried, but Grapefruit hacking is already a topic on the Hackaton, so it > would combine efforts. Yes, I'm actively pondering Hpysics+Grapefruit (it's the primary reason of my interest in Grapefruit). But first of all we need to get graphics support into Grapefruit. Does your proposal re Hackathon indicate that you'd like to join? -- Roman I. Cheplyaka :: http://ro-che.info/ "Don't let school get in the way of your education." - Mark Twain ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] FRP + physics / status of hpysics
Regarding hpysics, did anybody did some experiments with this? The blog seems to be inactive since december 2008; has development ceased? Do alternatives exist? Maybe good wrappers (hopefully pure...) around existing engines? Integrating hpysics with Grapefruit might be a good topic for the Hackaton, trying to make a simple game (e.g. Pong or Breakout) without using recursive signal functions, but with correct collision response and better-than-Euler integration, all handled by the physics engine. Other FRP engines could be tried, but Grapefruit hacking is already a topic on the Hackaton, so it would combine efforts. It feels as if none of the current FRP engines can handle physics correctly, since a typical physics implementations requires "time backtracking", in the sense that when you want to advance the current simulation time by a timestep, collision events can happen during that time interval, and hence the FRP engine can only advance time until the earliest collision event. So to do physics *with* an FRP engine, the implementation and maybe even semantics of the FRP system might need to be changed. *Using* a physics engine as a blackbox inside an FRP system might make more sense. Thanks to Wolfgang Jeltsch and Christopher Lane Hinson for having a discussion with me that lead to this. Interestingly a similar discussion was help by other people in the Reactive mailing list at the same time :-) Cheers, Peter Verswyvelen ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
