Re: **[Spam]** RE: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
Because filling up your mailbox is so much more fun? If you need clan members to monitor your server and easily join them, I recommend downloading HLSW http://hlsw.net J. Laws - Hi-Definition Gaming wrote: How about you both go to sleep and stop posting now that you've gotten your answer. -Original Message- From: Joey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No Chris, what i was trying to imply was, if there was a way to be in the list near the top, even if it ment registering some where, Not cheating. Why would that be considered cheating? It would just be an easier way for player's or mainly clan member's to find the server quickly, instead of having to type "connect 111.222.333.333:27015" don't you think? Cheating is what someone whom is getting a profit for having there game server up would do, be we don't get anything for it. So please refrane the word "Cheating". Anyway thanx for your opinion. - Original Message - From: "Chris Bass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers It's sortable, I believe the default is ping but you can sort by anything you want, players, name, map whatever. (I'm talking in game browser here) Joey, I was cool till you asked "Is there a way to have our server's always appear near the top?" which implies that instead of attracting players the normal way, you wanted to cheat. It was a pretty immature question on your part to begin with IMO. Adam Sando wrote: I thought the default server list was displayed based on response time of server, fastest to slowest - i.e.. Ping? Regards, Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Bass Sent: Monday, 28 August 2006 12:58 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be doing it. Joey wrote: Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
You know what? Developers of plug-ins know that they can make a simple admin mod (kick, ban, tk) without any of the fancy stuff (stats, xp, whatever) by using the SDK API. Or maybe they don't. They know that their users (all of us) would love something like this, but they continue to use SourceMM. How hard would it be for them to simply throw out a generic admin mod that they never have to touch again, just for those of us that don't want some fancy plug-in. If someone would just make that plugin, there'd be no more problems. No one would have any reason to ask Valve to do any of this stupid stuff. We already have what we _really_ need. No one cares enough to use it. And until they do, everybody's going to complain about the provided API not being enough. No one has to deal with Steam update patch breaks, but they choose to use plug-ins that they know are going to break. There's an alternative and you know it, so stop complaining. > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "[DumB]TeXas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:25:38 +0200 > Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > What we _really_ need is a proper plugin framework like amx - it's been a > good while since source was released now and we still haven't seen anything > of sourcemod. If we had this, made properly using the supported methods, > developers could use this to build fairly stable plugins and we could for an > example have database functionality. A proper bansystem that can check users > against a central ban database and plugins allowing things like advertising > messages, admins, reserved slots, mod XP points and whatever being read from > a database instead of files are some examples where this is needed. > > However, in the meantime the SDK does not provide all the functionality the > developers need - if it did they would be using it. That valve has no > obligations to help the people making it possible for us to run our game > servers is bs imo. > > I would certainly not be able to run my servers without proper admin support > (no, rcon doesn't do the trick) and as long as valve does not provide any > solutions for this them self they should be very grateful for the work these > developers put into making their game service better. These developers put a > lot of time and effort into this and do not demand any money back from the > users - while valve is a multi-billion business (god knows how much they > have earned on online hl based games over the years). > > Not to mention people like us that put A LOT of our spare time into running > servers for their games. Without all the people out there doing this, valve > would not have a customer base for their online games (there would be no > servers). > > If just the ~250k players we have had playing at our servers over the past > year or so have used $30 on steam games - that's $750 worth of players > using our services free of charge. In the end valve should not just turn > their backs to us and just tell us not to use these 3rd party plugins when > valve can solve this fairly easily and save all their customers and people > providing services for their games for a lot of problems. > > All it would take is pre-releasing their updates so that developers can > debug their plugins before everyone is forced to update and have a fix > ready. (Wee I've said that so many times now :D) > > Best regards the AFPRM (Admins For Pre Release Movement). :P > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Simpson > Sent: 27. august 2006 18:56 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > > Seeing Valve's point of view on this, any suggestion here, even just > pre-releasing the server updates in advance of the public release, is going > to increase Valve's workload because of people using unsupported methods in > plugins, and I think it should be pretty obvious to everyone why Valve see > that as unacceptable. > > The real issue is why plugin developers have to use unsupported methods in > the first place, and the dialogue should be around providing the means by > which plugin developers shouldn't have to do things an unsupported way so > that this becomes a non-issue. In the meantime, the plugin developers who do > use unsupported methods should just make everyone aware that their plugins > are inevitably going to break on a version roll. > > - Original Message - > From: "bobby35ny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:42 PM > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > > > > How is this even a debate? > > > > Valve is saying go by our rules AKA sdk, and the mods will be fine. > > > > The mod makers should adhere to the rules. If the mod maker wants to add a > > feature that has to go around the API, shame on them. > > > > The community should tell the mod makers
RE: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
How about you both go to sleep and stop posting now that you've gotten your answer. -Original Message- From: Joey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No Chris, what i was trying to imply was, if there was a way to be in the list near the top, even if it ment registering some where, Not cheating. Why would that be considered cheating? It would just be an easier way for player's or mainly clan member's to find the server quickly, instead of having to type "connect 111.222.333.333:27015" don't you think? Cheating is what someone whom is getting a profit for having there game server up would do, be we don't get anything for it. So please refrane the word "Cheating". Anyway thanx for your opinion. - Original Message - From: "Chris Bass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers > It's sortable, I believe the default is ping but you can sort by > anything you want, players, name, map whatever. (I'm talking in game > browser here) > > Joey, I was cool till you asked "Is there a way to have our server's > always appear near the top?" which implies that instead of attracting > players the normal way, you wanted to cheat. It was a pretty immature > question on your part to begin with IMO. > > Adam Sando wrote: >> I thought the default server list was displayed based on response >> time of server, fastest to slowest - i.e.. Ping? >> >> Regards, >> Adam >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Bass >> Sent: Monday, 28 August 2006 12:58 PM >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers >> >> No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be >> doing it. >> >> Joey wrote: >> >>> Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers >>> >>> >>> Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers > Hey guys, > Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get > populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it > determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send > the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems > like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. > first, and the rest come in later. > Chris > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, >>> >> >> >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
No Chris, what i was trying to imply was, if there was a way to be in the list near the top, even if it ment registering some where, Not cheating. Why would that be considered cheating? It would just be an easier way for player's or mainly clan member's to find the server quickly, instead of having to type "connect 111.222.333.333:27015" don't you think? Cheating is what someone whom is getting a profit for having there game server up would do, be we don't get anything for it. So please refrane the word "Cheating". Anyway thanx for your opinion. - Original Message - From: "Chris Bass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers It's sortable, I believe the default is ping but you can sort by anything you want, players, name, map whatever. (I'm talking in game browser here) Joey, I was cool till you asked "Is there a way to have our server's always appear near the top?" which implies that instead of attracting players the normal way, you wanted to cheat. It was a pretty immature question on your part to begin with IMO. Adam Sando wrote: I thought the default server list was displayed based on response time of server, fastest to slowest - i.e.. Ping? Regards, Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Bass Sent: Monday, 28 August 2006 12:58 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be doing it. Joey wrote: Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
It's sortable, I believe the default is ping but you can sort by anything you want, players, name, map whatever. (I'm talking in game browser here) Joey, I was cool till you asked "Is there a way to have our server's always appear near the top?" which implies that instead of attracting players the normal way, you wanted to cheat. It was a pretty immature question on your part to begin with IMO. Adam Sando wrote: I thought the default server list was displayed based on response time of server, fastest to slowest - i.e.. Ping? Regards, Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Bass Sent: Monday, 28 August 2006 12:58 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be doing it. Joey wrote: Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
In reply to DICK i mean Chris, sorry for the confusion with the name, considering you just acted like one. Im not 14 & i didn't ask for a stupid remark. If you do not have anything smart or helpful to say, then you shouldn't be in this list. Thank You Meph & those of you that responded in a well manored way. - Original Message - From: "Chris Bass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be doing it. Joey wrote: Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
I thought the default server list was displayed based on response time of server, fastest to slowest - i.e.. Ping? Regards, Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Bass Sent: Monday, 28 August 2006 12:58 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be doing it. Joey wrote: > Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? > - Original Message - > From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers > > >> Hi, >> The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update >> proccess closest to your IP. >> >> Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP >> prolly starts with 208 or close to it. >> >> Saint K. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM >> Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers >> >> >>> Hey guys, >>> Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated >>> into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined >>> by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a >>> certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I >>> check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. >>> first, and the rest come in later. >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
No because if they did, every 14 year old admin like you would be doing it. Joey wrote: Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
I have a good host clanservers.com - Original Message - From: "Meph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers get a good host with a good amount of bandwidth? Joey wrote: Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
get a good host with a good amount of bandwidth? Joey wrote: > Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? > - Original Message - > From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers > > >> Hi, >> The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess >> closest to your IP. >> >> Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP >> prolly >> starts with 208 or close to it. >> >> Saint K. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM >> Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers >> >> >>> Hey guys, >>> Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated >>> into >>> the >>> master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the >>> user's >>> internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order >>> when a >>> user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get >>> all >>> the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
Correction, it sorts on best ping on top ofcource. - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
Is there a way to have our server's always appeare near the top? - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
Hi, The servers get sorted by best IP on top, starting the update proccess closest to your IP. Thats why it appears that only the 208 range shows up first. Your IP prolly starts with 208 or close to it. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "Chris | FatPipeServer.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Populating the master lists with servers Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Populating the master lists with servers
Hey guys, Do any of you know what controls the way that servers get populated into the master list when a users clicks on them? Is it determined by the user's internet connection or does Steam send the list in a certain order when a user/client requests it? Seems like when I check the Master List I get all the server Ips starting with 208. first, and the rest come in later. Chris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
What we _really_ need is a proper plugin framework like amx - it's been a good while since source was released now and we still haven't seen anything of sourcemod. If we had this, made properly using the supported methods, developers could use this to build fairly stable plugins and we could for an example have database functionality. A proper bansystem that can check users against a central ban database and plugins allowing things like advertising messages, admins, reserved slots, mod XP points and whatever being read from a database instead of files are some examples where this is needed. However, in the meantime the SDK does not provide all the functionality the developers need - if it did they would be using it. That valve has no obligations to help the people making it possible for us to run our game servers is bs imo. I would certainly not be able to run my servers without proper admin support (no, rcon doesn't do the trick) and as long as valve does not provide any solutions for this them self they should be very grateful for the work these developers put into making their game service better. These developers put a lot of time and effort into this and do not demand any money back from the users - while valve is a multi-billion business (god knows how much they have earned on online hl based games over the years). Not to mention people like us that put A LOT of our spare time into running servers for their games. Without all the people out there doing this, valve would not have a customer base for their online games (there would be no servers). If just the ~250k players we have had playing at our servers over the past year or so have used $30 on steam games - that's $750 worth of players using our services free of charge. In the end valve should not just turn their backs to us and just tell us not to use these 3rd party plugins when valve can solve this fairly easily and save all their customers and people providing services for their games for a lot of problems. All it would take is pre-releasing their updates so that developers can debug their plugins before everyone is forced to update and have a fix ready. (Wee I've said that so many times now :D) Best regards the AFPRM (Admins For Pre Release Movement). :P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Simpson Sent: 27. august 2006 18:56 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Seeing Valve's point of view on this, any suggestion here, even just pre-releasing the server updates in advance of the public release, is going to increase Valve's workload because of people using unsupported methods in plugins, and I think it should be pretty obvious to everyone why Valve see that as unacceptable. The real issue is why plugin developers have to use unsupported methods in the first place, and the dialogue should be around providing the means by which plugin developers shouldn't have to do things an unsupported way so that this becomes a non-issue. In the meantime, the plugin developers who do use unsupported methods should just make everyone aware that their plugins are inevitably going to break on a version roll. - Original Message - From: "bobby35ny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > How is this even a debate? > > Valve is saying go by our rules AKA sdk, and the mods will be fine. > > The mod makers should adhere to the rules. If the mod maker wants to add a > feature that has to go around the API, shame on them. > > The community should tell the mod makers to stick to the rules. > > I wish there was a admin type mod that followed the rules 100%, I would > use > it in a heartbeat. > > -Bobby > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
Seeing Valve's point of view on this, any suggestion here, even just pre-releasing the server updates in advance of the public release, is going to increase Valve's workload because of people using unsupported methods in plugins, and I think it should be pretty obvious to everyone why Valve see that as unacceptable. The real issue is why plugin developers have to use unsupported methods in the first place, and the dialogue should be around providing the means by which plugin developers shouldn't have to do things an unsupported way so that this becomes a non-issue. In the meantime, the plugin developers who do use unsupported methods should just make everyone aware that their plugins are inevitably going to break on a version roll. - Original Message - From: "bobby35ny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released How is this even a debate? Valve is saying go by our rules AKA sdk, and the mods will be fine. The mod makers should adhere to the rules. If the mod maker wants to add a feature that has to go around the API, shame on them. The community should tell the mod makers to stick to the rules. I wish there was a admin type mod that followed the rules 100%, I would use it in a heartbeat. -Bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It's not flame bait, its merely an observation that everytime Valve breaks all the Mods, is strangely around the same time the Mod authors appear to become the most productive. Or am just imagining things? :) On 8/28/06, Frazer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Oooh - I smell fresh flame bait LOL > > ;) > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:06 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Now that I think about, > it > is actually a good thing that Valve updates break all these plugins. > > Its amazing how much coding gets done when this happens. :) > > Nothing beats poking a stick into the mod communities ant nest. :D > > It does seem to be a way to breathe fresh air into what appear to be > stagnant projects. > > On 8/28/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "Amen" to your example, I do disagree on one thing though; > > > > "just let the third parties know that the change will break their code" > > > > - This would take a lot of resources because valve won't automatically > > know that if they change this particular thing, this and that plugin > > will break. > > It would require a lot of debugging with 3rd party plugins to figure > > out and this is *not* valves responsibility - however if they just > > provided the information and tools necessary for the 3rd party > > developers to do this job them self I think we'd all be happy. > > > > All that would take is a pre-release of the new updates and possibly a > > change-log which I am sure they use in their development anyway. With > > a pre-release, fixes/new versions could be ready the second valve > > officially release their update(s) - server admins would only have to > > go to the various plugin websites and grab the new version after doing > > the update and be up and running again quickly. > > > > I'm sure this would cut back on time needed for support and > > discussions like this as well - in the end possibly saving you both > > hassle and money + having happy customers which doesn't hurt. ;) > > > > I think there have been similar discussions like this going on for > > ages. I noticed the same thing has just started at the linux mail-list > > as well with basically the same concept of pre-releasing updates a few > > days in advance being suggested. Maybe its time for valve to take this > > seriously and look into the possibility if this have not been done > > already? > > > > I'd be very grateful if Alfred or someone could give us some comments > > on this. NOTE: not on the concept of "checking that it works" etc - > > but on the possibility of having a pre-release system. > > > > - TeX. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Luna > > Sent: 27. august 2006 17:17 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > > Importance: Low > > > > Yes, it is true that Valve is under no obligation to notify third > > party plug-in providers about anything they are doing... it may make > > reasonable sense to reasonable people, but nothing is forcing Valve to > > do so. On the other hand... no company can survive if their customers > > are repeatedly subject to loss of whatever service that company > > provides... be it disruption in product performance or in the supply > > chain. Valve appears to have the supply chain issued locked-up in > > that you automatically get the updates or (in the case of servers) are > > forced to download the updates or face loosing your listing however; > > the service side of the equation is perceived to be a failure by a > > fair percentage of server admins. Perhaps this is unfair to Valve, > > but it is the general perception and perception trumps reality every > time. > > It is an established fact that without servers there is no game and > > most servers are running mods and plug-ins and these products wouldn't > > exist unless there was a valid measurable need for them. For Valve to > > imply that the problems caused by their updates (which are not > > optional, are strictly the responsibility of the third party > > providers, is for Valve to turn it's back on it's own installed > > customer base. This is never a good thing. > > I sometimes wonder why we play this game... what's the point really? > > But then again, why do people bowl or play golf or tennis... these are > > all games that people play for enjoyment... just like we do. The only > > difference is that we use a computer and they use a ball, or a club, > > or a racket. So what if every time AMF made an improvement to their > > bowling machines all bowling centers no longer worked... of if they > > improved their tennis rackets all the tennis courts in t
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
How is this even a debate? Valve is saying go by our rules AKA sdk, and the mods will be fine. The mod makers should adhere to the rules. If the mod maker wants to add a feature that has to go around the API, shame on them. The community should tell the mod makers to stick to the rules. I wish there was a admin type mod that followed the rules 100%, I would use it in a heartbeat. -Bobby ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
Oooh - I smell fresh flame bait LOL ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:06 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Now that I think about, it is actually a good thing that Valve updates break all these plugins. Its amazing how much coding gets done when this happens. :) Nothing beats poking a stick into the mod communities ant nest. :D It does seem to be a way to breathe fresh air into what appear to be stagnant projects. On 8/28/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Amen" to your example, I do disagree on one thing though; > > "just let the third parties know that the change will break their code" > > - This would take a lot of resources because valve won't automatically > know that if they change this particular thing, this and that plugin > will break. > It would require a lot of debugging with 3rd party plugins to figure > out and this is *not* valves responsibility - however if they just > provided the information and tools necessary for the 3rd party > developers to do this job them self I think we'd all be happy. > > All that would take is a pre-release of the new updates and possibly a > change-log which I am sure they use in their development anyway. With > a pre-release, fixes/new versions could be ready the second valve > officially release their update(s) - server admins would only have to > go to the various plugin websites and grab the new version after doing > the update and be up and running again quickly. > > I'm sure this would cut back on time needed for support and > discussions like this as well - in the end possibly saving you both > hassle and money + having happy customers which doesn't hurt. ;) > > I think there have been similar discussions like this going on for > ages. I noticed the same thing has just started at the linux mail-list > as well with basically the same concept of pre-releasing updates a few > days in advance being suggested. Maybe its time for valve to take this > seriously and look into the possibility if this have not been done > already? > > I'd be very grateful if Alfred or someone could give us some comments > on this. NOTE: not on the concept of "checking that it works" etc - > but on the possibility of having a pre-release system. > > - TeX. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Luna > Sent: 27. august 2006 17:17 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > Importance: Low > > Yes, it is true that Valve is under no obligation to notify third > party plug-in providers about anything they are doing... it may make > reasonable sense to reasonable people, but nothing is forcing Valve to > do so. On the other hand... no company can survive if their customers > are repeatedly subject to loss of whatever service that company > provides... be it disruption in product performance or in the supply > chain. Valve appears to have the supply chain issued locked-up in > that you automatically get the updates or (in the case of servers) are > forced to download the updates or face loosing your listing however; > the service side of the equation is perceived to be a failure by a > fair percentage of server admins. Perhaps this is unfair to Valve, > but it is the general perception and perception trumps reality every time. > It is an established fact that without servers there is no game and > most servers are running mods and plug-ins and these products wouldn't > exist unless there was a valid measurable need for them. For Valve to > imply that the problems caused by their updates (which are not > optional, are strictly the responsibility of the third party > providers, is for Valve to turn it's back on it's own installed > customer base. This is never a good thing. > I sometimes wonder why we play this game... what's the point really? > But then again, why do people bowl or play golf or tennis... these are > all games that people play for enjoyment... just like we do. The only > difference is that we use a computer and they use a ball, or a club, > or a racket. So what if every time AMF made an improvement to their > bowling machines all bowling centers no longer worked... of if they > improved their tennis rackets all the tennis courts in the world > stopped working or made a change to their golf clubs all the golf > courses closed for a week? This would never be tolerated and I doubt > that AMF would try to blame these problems on the way people were > attempting to use their products... even if it were true. > It is absolutely true that the plug-in makers are responsible for > altering their code to accommodate changes Valve makes... that fact is > not in question. Several on this list have made reasonable > suggestions as to
Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Now that I think about, it is actually a good thing that Valve updates break all these plugins. Its amazing how much coding gets done when this happens. :) Nothing beats poking a stick into the mod communities ant nest. :D It does seem to be a way to breathe fresh air into what appear to be stagnant projects. On 8/28/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Amen" to your example, I do disagree on one thing though; > > "just let the third parties know that the change will break their code" > > - This would take a lot of resources because valve won't automatically > know > that if they change this particular thing, this and that plugin will > break. > It would require a lot of debugging with 3rd party plugins to figure out > and > this is *not* valves responsibility - however if they just provided the > information and tools necessary for the 3rd party developers to do this > job > them self I think we'd all be happy. > > All that would take is a pre-release of the new updates and possibly a > change-log which I am sure they use in their development anyway. With a > pre-release, fixes/new versions could be ready the second valve officially > release their update(s) - server admins would only have to go to the > various > plugin websites and grab the new version after doing the update and be up > and running again quickly. > > I'm sure this would cut back on time needed for support and discussions > like > this as well - in the end possibly saving you both hassle and money + > having > happy customers which doesn't hurt. ;) > > I think there have been similar discussions like this going on for ages. I > noticed the same thing has just started at the linux mail-list as well > with > basically the same concept of pre-releasing updates a few days in advance > being suggested. Maybe its time for valve to take this seriously and look > into the possibility if this have not been done already? > > I'd be very grateful if Alfred or someone could give us some comments on > this. NOTE: not on the concept of "checking that it works" etc - but on > the > possibility of having a pre-release system. > > - TeX. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Luna > Sent: 27. august 2006 17:17 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released > Importance: Low > > Yes, it is true that Valve is under no obligation to notify third party > plug-in providers about anything they are doing... it may make > reasonable sense to reasonable people, but nothing is forcing Valve to > do so. On the other hand... no company can survive if their customers > are repeatedly subject to loss of whatever service that company > provides... be it disruption in product performance or in the supply > chain. Valve appears to have the supply chain issued locked-up in that > you automatically get the updates or (in the case of servers) are forced > to download the updates or face loosing your listing however; the > service side of the equation is perceived to be a failure by a fair > percentage of server admins. Perhaps this is unfair to Valve, but it is > the general perception and perception trumps reality every time. > It is an established fact that without servers there is no game and most > servers are running mods and plug-ins and these products wouldn't exist > unless there was a valid measurable need for them. For Valve to imply > that the problems caused by their updates (which are not optional, are > strictly the responsibility of the third party providers, is for Valve > to turn it's back on it's own installed customer base. This is never a > good thing. > I sometimes wonder why we play this game... what's the point really? > But then again, why do people bowl or play golf or tennis... these are > all games that people play for enjoyment... just like we do. The only > difference is that we use a computer and they use a ball, or a club, or > a racket. So what if every time AMF made an improvement to their > bowling machines all bowling centers no longer worked... of if they > improved their tennis rackets all the tennis courts in the world stopped > working or made a change to their golf clubs all the golf courses closed > for a week? This would never be tolerated and I doubt that AMF would try > to blame these problems on the way people were attempting to use their > products... even if it were true. > It is absolutely true that the plug-in makers are responsible for > altering their code to accommodate changes Valve makes... that fact is > not in question. Several on this list have made reasonable suggestions > as to how Valve could easily avoid all the problems for their customers > by either making the third party providers aware of code changes or > having a few servers of their own running the third party stuff and > notify the handful of third party providers if an
RE: [hlds] Mani Site
Irony works in person but not in an email without indications ;) For all I know you could be mistaken, not trying to be funny - Oh well. Hehe ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frazer Sent: 27. august 2006 17:28 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site Ahhh - let me clarify my earlier post: Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [DumB]TeXas Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:53 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site No, it *is not* a DDoS attack however it does have the same effect in the end. A natural flow of people wanting to visit a forum or whatever is called an "unintentional attack" - even though it's not really any attack at all. It is certainly not a "distributed attack" where multiple compromised systems flood the bandwidth or resources of the targeted system. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frazer Sent: 27. august 2006 14:44 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:48 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Actually its better, cause theres nothing illegal going on, its all legitamate. On 8/27/06, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lol > > Well 100,000 people htting your forum at the same time when you are > only setup to cater for 1000 users at a time is as good as any DDoS > any day. :) > > /.'ed > > > On 8/27/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It was impossible to reach yesterday due to what seemed like too > > much traffic - so my guess is that the site was taken down because > > it couldn't handle the load of; a) a natural large flow of people > > visiting the site due to the mani problems - or b) a DDOS attack to > > bring it down. I don't think they would take the site down and not > > have at least a simple index telling people why it's down... > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Meph > > Sent: 27. august 2006 03:47 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site > > > > there was a complete revamp recently. could be related to that. > > altho i just tried it and got a directory listing for the site. so i > > guess it's maintainance of some kind > > > > Link Pankratz wrote: > > > Only slightly off topic but does anyone know what is going on with > > > the Mani-Admin site? It appears to me that the whole site is down. > > > > > > Link > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: > > 8/25/2006 > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http:/
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
"Amen" to your example, I do disagree on one thing though; "just let the third parties know that the change will break their code" - This would take a lot of resources because valve won't automatically know that if they change this particular thing, this and that plugin will break. It would require a lot of debugging with 3rd party plugins to figure out and this is *not* valves responsibility - however if they just provided the information and tools necessary for the 3rd party developers to do this job them self I think we'd all be happy. All that would take is a pre-release of the new updates and possibly a change-log which I am sure they use in their development anyway. With a pre-release, fixes/new versions could be ready the second valve officially release their update(s) - server admins would only have to go to the various plugin websites and grab the new version after doing the update and be up and running again quickly. I'm sure this would cut back on time needed for support and discussions like this as well - in the end possibly saving you both hassle and money + having happy customers which doesn't hurt. ;) I think there have been similar discussions like this going on for ages. I noticed the same thing has just started at the linux mail-list as well with basically the same concept of pre-releasing updates a few days in advance being suggested. Maybe its time for valve to take this seriously and look into the possibility if this have not been done already? I'd be very grateful if Alfred or someone could give us some comments on this. NOTE: not on the concept of "checking that it works" etc - but on the possibility of having a pre-release system. - TeX. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Luna Sent: 27. august 2006 17:17 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Importance: Low Yes, it is true that Valve is under no obligation to notify third party plug-in providers about anything they are doing... it may make reasonable sense to reasonable people, but nothing is forcing Valve to do so. On the other hand... no company can survive if their customers are repeatedly subject to loss of whatever service that company provides... be it disruption in product performance or in the supply chain. Valve appears to have the supply chain issued locked-up in that you automatically get the updates or (in the case of servers) are forced to download the updates or face loosing your listing however; the service side of the equation is perceived to be a failure by a fair percentage of server admins. Perhaps this is unfair to Valve, but it is the general perception and perception trumps reality every time. It is an established fact that without servers there is no game and most servers are running mods and plug-ins and these products wouldn't exist unless there was a valid measurable need for them. For Valve to imply that the problems caused by their updates (which are not optional, are strictly the responsibility of the third party providers, is for Valve to turn it's back on it's own installed customer base. This is never a good thing. I sometimes wonder why we play this game... what's the point really? But then again, why do people bowl or play golf or tennis... these are all games that people play for enjoyment... just like we do. The only difference is that we use a computer and they use a ball, or a club, or a racket. So what if every time AMF made an improvement to their bowling machines all bowling centers no longer worked... of if they improved their tennis rackets all the tennis courts in the world stopped working or made a change to their golf clubs all the golf courses closed for a week? This would never be tolerated and I doubt that AMF would try to blame these problems on the way people were attempting to use their products... even if it were true. It is absolutely true that the plug-in makers are responsible for altering their code to accommodate changes Valve makes... that fact is not in question. Several on this list have made reasonable suggestions as to how Valve could easily avoid all the problems for their customers by either making the third party providers aware of code changes or having a few servers of their own running the third party stuff and notify the handful of third party providers if an update will break their code. This appears to be a reasonable approach. Neither myself or anyone's else is suggesting that Valve alter their code to fit third parties... just let the third parties know that the change will break their code and give them a few days before the update release to fix the problem. I'm certain that the server admins would be extremely grateful for that simply act of sanity. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:12 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-St
Re: [hlds] Mani
Sent. If anyone else needs it I will send but I won't post it up for
general download.
Link
{MDA} Spotta wrote:
Hi all
Been having some weirdness since the gaydar update.
I've re downloaded all valve files, but mani's site is still down.
Can anyone email me mani 1.1.0.zi?
Cheers
Spotta
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RE: [hlds] Mani Site
Ahhh - let me clarify my earlier post: Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [DumB]TeXas Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:53 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site No, it *is not* a DDoS attack however it does have the same effect in the end. A natural flow of people wanting to visit a forum or whatever is called an "unintentional attack" - even though it's not really any attack at all. It is certainly not a "distributed attack" where multiple compromised systems flood the bandwidth or resources of the targeted system. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frazer Sent: 27. august 2006 14:44 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:48 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Actually its better, cause theres nothing illegal going on, its all legitamate. On 8/27/06, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lol > > Well 100,000 people htting your forum at the same time when you are > only setup to cater for 1000 users at a time is as good as any DDoS > any day. :) > > /.'ed > > > On 8/27/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It was impossible to reach yesterday due to what seemed like too > > much traffic - so my guess is that the site was taken down because > > it couldn't handle the load of; a) a natural large flow of people > > visiting the site due to the mani problems - or b) a DDOS attack to > > bring it down. I don't think they would take the site down and not > > have at least a simple index telling people why it's down... > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Meph > > Sent: 27. august 2006 03:47 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site > > > > there was a complete revamp recently. could be related to that. > > altho i just tried it and got a directory listing for the site. so i > > guess it's maintainance of some kind > > > > Link Pankratz wrote: > > > Only slightly off topic but does anyone know what is going on with > > > the Mani-Admin site? It appears to me that the whole site is down. > > > > > > Link > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: > > 8/25/2006 > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Mani Site
What's a meta for? :) -Original Message- From: [DumB]TeXas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:53 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site No, it *is not* a DDoS attack however it does have the same effect in the end. A natural flow of people wanting to visit a forum or whatever is called an "unintentional attack" - even though it's not really any attack at all. It is certainly not a "distributed attack" where multiple compromised systems flood the bandwidth or resources of the targeted system. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frazer Sent: 27. august 2006 14:44 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:48 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Actually its better, cause theres nothing illegal going on, its all legitamate. On 8/27/06, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lol > > Well 100,000 people htting your forum at the same time when you are > only setup to cater for 1000 users at a time is as good as any DDoS > any day. :) > > /.'ed > > > On 8/27/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It was impossible to reach yesterday due to what seemed like too > > much traffic - so my guess is that the site was taken down because > > it couldn't handle the load of; a) a natural large flow of people > > visiting the site due to the mani problems - or b) a DDOS attack to > > bring it down. I don't think they would take the site down and not > > have at least a simple index telling people why it's down... > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Meph > > Sent: 27. august 2006 03:47 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site > > > > there was a complete revamp recently. could be related to that. > > altho i just tried it and got a directory listing for the site. so i > > guess it's maintainance of some kind > > > > Link Pankratz wrote: > > > Only slightly off topic but does anyone know what is going on with > > > the Mani-Admin site? It appears to me that the whole site is down. > > > > > > Link > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: > > 8/25/2006 > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
Yes, it is true that Valve is under no obligation to notify third party plug-in providers about anything they are doing... it may make reasonable sense to reasonable people, but nothing is forcing Valve to do so. On the other hand... no company can survive if their customers are repeatedly subject to loss of whatever service that company provides... be it disruption in product performance or in the supply chain. Valve appears to have the supply chain issued locked-up in that you automatically get the updates or (in the case of servers) are forced to download the updates or face loosing your listing however; the service side of the equation is perceived to be a failure by a fair percentage of server admins. Perhaps this is unfair to Valve, but it is the general perception and perception trumps reality every time. It is an established fact that without servers there is no game and most servers are running mods and plug-ins and these products wouldn't exist unless there was a valid measurable need for them. For Valve to imply that the problems caused by their updates (which are not optional, are strictly the responsibility of the third party providers, is for Valve to turn it's back on it's own installed customer base. This is never a good thing. I sometimes wonder why we play this game... what's the point really? But then again, why do people bowl or play golf or tennis... these are all games that people play for enjoyment... just like we do. The only difference is that we use a computer and they use a ball, or a club, or a racket. So what if every time AMF made an improvement to their bowling machines all bowling centers no longer worked... of if they improved their tennis rackets all the tennis courts in the world stopped working or made a change to their golf clubs all the golf courses closed for a week? This would never be tolerated and I doubt that AMF would try to blame these problems on the way people were attempting to use their products... even if it were true. It is absolutely true that the plug-in makers are responsible for altering their code to accommodate changes Valve makes... that fact is not in question. Several on this list have made reasonable suggestions as to how Valve could easily avoid all the problems for their customers by either making the third party providers aware of code changes or having a few servers of their own running the third party stuff and notify the handful of third party providers if an update will break their code. This appears to be a reasonable approach. Neither myself or anyone's else is suggesting that Valve alter their code to fit third parties... just let the third parties know that the change will break their code and give them a few days before the update release to fix the problem. I'm certain that the server admins would be extremely grateful for that simply act of sanity. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:12 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Some of us do not have a choice of using these plugins. People have asked nicely over and over again that Valve merely communicate with the four or five main plugin developers before a patch is released so those of us that have to run these plugins do not have our servers down waiting for a fix. It is bad enough that you ram these updates (that half the time make it worse) down people's throats. But you offer no prep, no indication of what you are changing or breaking. Why don't you see if the popular plugins break updates before release? How long would it take to test the four or five common plugins that everyone uses and tell admins what works and what doesn't so that everyone does not have to scramble to get their servers to stop crashing? If it were not for MODs and plugins I would have stopped playing HL years ago. The people that run servers are your lifeblood, we are not asking a lot just a little consideration. As someone else said, if the SDK offered everything that the plugin developers needed I am sure they would use it. but they don't. -YMAC On 8/25/06 1:55 AM, "Alfred Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The problem is that these plugins are hacking into hard coded offsets in > the game server, one tiny code change from us and the plugin blows up. > The solution is for them to use the plugin API we provide which doesn't > have this problem. If you don't like fragile plugins that crash your > game server then please don't use them. > > - Alfred > > Adam Sando wrote: >> From a good faith perspective, yes they should engage 3rd party >> developers to ensure adequate testing has taken place. From a project >> deadline point of view, taking into account the fact most CEO's/Boards >> of directors are quite tight with timelines, they might not want to >> have >> their dev teams engage 3rd party developers to ensure their updates >> work, as this could be seen
RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
As many have said before, I don't think you can expect valve to spend time testing every plugin out there - or to decide which "4 or 5 plugins" that gets special treatment... What they could do in order to help ALL plugin developers out there - without having to do any extra work on updates them self - is to offer a pre-release of the updates to the developers a few days before its officially rolled out. That way the developers, weather they use the SDK or not, will be able to test/debug/fix their plugins and have a release ready by the time it's needed. They already have an excellent tool to distribute versions - the hlds-updatetool - with a small tweak I'm sure it could also support this functionality. Valve could for an example have a developer maillist - where a news-letter containing a release code is sent out. When the developers get it they could simply start hlds-updatetool with a parameter like "-dlupdate " or similar to update their server install. You are right on one thing though, the people running the servers out there and the people developing free plugins/mods for their servers is in fact very important to their business and people wouldn't be buying their online games if noone were interested in running the servers. So Valve does have a moral obligation to take care of these and do what they can (within reasonable limits of course) to help. The solution I've offered above, which there probably has been loads suggesting before, should not cost valve much money, time or resources and will help the hl/hl2 community a lot. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27. august 2006 15:12 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Some of us do not have a choice of using these plugins. People have asked nicely over and over again that Valve merely communicate with the four or five main plugin developers before a patch is released so those of us that have to run these plugins do not have our servers down waiting for a fix. It is bad enough that you ram these updates (that half the time make it worse) down people's throats. But you offer no prep, no indication of what you are changing or breaking. Why don't you see if the popular plugins break updates before release? How long would it take to test the four or five common plugins that everyone uses and tell admins what works and what doesn't so that everyone does not have to scramble to get their servers to stop crashing? If it were not for MODs and plugins I would have stopped playing HL years ago. The people that run servers are your lifeblood, we are not asking a lot just a little consideration. As someone else said, if the SDK offered everything that the plugin developers needed I am sure they would use it. but they don't. -YMAC On 8/25/06 1:55 AM, "Alfred Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The problem is that these plugins are hacking into hard coded offsets in > the game server, one tiny code change from us and the plugin blows up. > The solution is for them to use the plugin API we provide which doesn't > have this problem. If you don't like fragile plugins that crash your > game server then please don't use them. > > - Alfred > > Adam Sando wrote: >> From a good faith perspective, yes they should engage 3rd party >> developers to ensure adequate testing has taken place. From a project >> deadline point of view, taking into account the fact most CEO's/Boards >> of directors are quite tight with timelines, they might not want to >> have >> their dev teams engage 3rd party developers to ensure their updates >> work, as this could be seen as a monumental waste of time. >> >> Ethically, it would be nice if valve had a strong relationship with >> the 3rd party development base out there, however sometimes business >> takes >> precedence over pleasure. It's just hard to define how much a part of >> Valves business, comes from Game Server Administrators, and how much >> would come from other market avenues. >> >> I might not be right, but this is what I would think happens at Valve >> when they are planning their updates? >> >> Regards, >> Adam >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [DumB]TeXas >> Sent: Friday, 25 August 2006 1:57 PM >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released >> >> I don't think you have read what I said though Adam, I haven't said >> they >> have any legal obligations and I haven't said that _they_ should make >> sure things works with their updates. >> >> What I suggested was that they do more of an effort to help the >> developers to debug their own plugins before updates go official - by >> for an example providing a test environment such as an update they can >> apply a few days before the release. This way the _developers of the >> 3rd >> party plugins_ can do their job and get it
RE: [hlds] Mani Site
No, it *is not* a DDoS attack however it does have the same effect in the end. A natural flow of people wanting to visit a forum or whatever is called an "unintentional attack" - even though it's not really any attack at all. It is certainly not a "distributed attack" where multiple compromised systems flood the bandwidth or resources of the targeted system. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frazer Sent: 27. august 2006 14:44 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Mani Site Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:48 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Actually its better, cause theres nothing illegal going on, its all legitamate. On 8/27/06, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lol > > Well 100,000 people htting your forum at the same time when you are > only setup to cater for 1000 users at a time is as good as any DDoS > any day. :) > > /.'ed > > > On 8/27/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It was impossible to reach yesterday due to what seemed like too > > much traffic - so my guess is that the site was taken down because > > it couldn't handle the load of; a) a natural large flow of people > > visiting the site due to the mani problems - or b) a DDOS attack to > > bring it down. I don't think they would take the site down and not > > have at least a simple index telling people why it's down... > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Meph > > Sent: 27. august 2006 03:47 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site > > > > there was a complete revamp recently. could be related to that. > > altho i just tried it and got a directory listing for the site. so i > > guess it's maintainance of some kind > > > > Link Pankratz wrote: > > > Only slightly off topic but does anyone know what is going on with > > > the Mani-Admin site? It appears to me that the whole site is down. > > > > > > Link > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: > > 8/25/2006 > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
Some of us do not have a choice of using these plugins. People have asked nicely over and over again that Valve merely communicate with the four or five main plugin developers before a patch is released so those of us that have to run these plugins do not have our servers down waiting for a fix. It is bad enough that you ram these updates (that half the time make it worse) down people's throats. But you offer no prep, no indication of what you are changing or breaking. Why don't you see if the popular plugins break updates before release? How long would it take to test the four or five common plugins that everyone uses and tell admins what works and what doesn't so that everyone does not have to scramble to get their servers to stop crashing? If it were not for MODs and plugins I would have stopped playing HL years ago. The people that run servers are your lifeblood, we are not asking a lot just a little consideration. As someone else said, if the SDK offered everything that the plugin developers needed I am sure they would use it. but they don't. -YMAC On 8/25/06 1:55 AM, "Alfred Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The problem is that these plugins are hacking into hard coded offsets in > the game server, one tiny code change from us and the plugin blows up. > The solution is for them to use the plugin API we provide which doesn't > have this problem. If you don't like fragile plugins that crash your > game server then please don't use them. > > - Alfred > > Adam Sando wrote: >> From a good faith perspective, yes they should engage 3rd party >> developers to ensure adequate testing has taken place. From a project >> deadline point of view, taking into account the fact most CEO's/Boards >> of directors are quite tight with timelines, they might not want to >> have >> their dev teams engage 3rd party developers to ensure their updates >> work, as this could be seen as a monumental waste of time. >> >> Ethically, it would be nice if valve had a strong relationship with >> the 3rd party development base out there, however sometimes business >> takes >> precedence over pleasure. It's just hard to define how much a part of >> Valves business, comes from Game Server Administrators, and how much >> would come from other market avenues. >> >> I might not be right, but this is what I would think happens at Valve >> when they are planning their updates? >> >> Regards, >> Adam >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [DumB]TeXas >> Sent: Friday, 25 August 2006 1:57 PM >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released >> >> I don't think you have read what I said though Adam, I haven't said >> they >> have any legal obligations and I haven't said that _they_ should make >> sure things works with their updates. >> >> What I suggested was that they do more of an effort to help the >> developers to debug their own plugins before updates go official - by >> for an example providing a test environment such as an update they can >> apply a few days before the release. This way the _developers of the >> 3rd >> party plugins_ can do their job and get it working with the new >> updates. >> This should only mean extending the time before a new update by a few >> days which doesn't matter when it comes to cosmetic updates such as >> this >> one. >> >> If anything, this goes under a moral obligation, to help all the >> people >> out there putting time, money and effort into running their games on >> servers and developing 3rd party plugins that makes their games >> playable - such as proper admin tools. >> >> TeX. :) >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Sando >> Sent: 25. august 2006 05:38 >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released >> >> Just remember Tex, Valve have no legal or moral obligations to provide >> support or compatibility with any 3rd party plugins not written by >> Valve. Valve try to make their updates as flawless as possible, >> however >> they are not able to make sure that every infinite combination of >> plugins work together. Not unless you want 1 update per year perhaps? >> ;) >> >> Regards, >> Adam. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [DumB]TeXas >> Sent: Friday, 25 August 2006 1:03 PM >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released >> >> Some of the metamod plugis appears not to be working - and my little >> rant there still stands regardless. Not that anyone cares about it. I >> just don't think I am the only one that is a 'tad' sick of updates >> breaking everything from a to z - and tbh there could be more effort >> to >> prevent it than there is today. Oh well... >> >> Server with v1.2 beta and the new gametypes.txt, on a windows 2003 >> server machine se
RE: [hlds] Mani Site
Actually, it *is* a DDoS attack - it's just that the perpetrator and the victims have reversed roles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:48 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Actually its better, cause theres nothing illegal going on, its all legitamate. On 8/27/06, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lol > > Well 100,000 people htting your forum at the same time when you are > only setup to cater for 1000 users at a time is as good as any DDoS > any day. :) > > /.'ed > > > On 8/27/06, [DumB]TeXas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > It was impossible to reach yesterday due to what seemed like too > > much traffic - so my guess is that the site was taken down because > > it couldn't handle the load of; a) a natural large flow of people > > visiting the site due to the mani problems - or b) a DDOS attack to > > bring it down. I don't think they would take the site down and not > > have at least a simple index telling people why it's down... > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Meph > > Sent: 27. august 2006 03:47 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Mani Site > > > > there was a complete revamp recently. could be related to that. > > altho i just tried it and got a directory listing for the site. so i > > guess it's maintainance of some kind > > > > Link Pankratz wrote: > > > Only slightly off topic but does anyone know what is going on with > > > the Mani-Admin site? It appears to me that the whole site is down. > > > > > > Link > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: > > 8/25/2006 > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Mani
Hi all Been having some weirdness since the gaydar update. I've re downloaded all valve files, but mani's site is still down. Can anyone email me mani 1.1.0.zi? Cheers Spotta ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
