Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
This whole ordeal makes me just want to shut off my servers and walk away. localhost wrote: > Aaaargh, frankly. > > I posted this a while back, but have only just noticed I failed at setting > the reply address to my subscription address. Most of what I said has now > been said already, but I'm saying it already dammit! > > - > > "Classic" / "Modded" as opposed to "Internet" / "Custom" seems a rather good > change, whether one tab or two. Though as a player, sometimes I just want > to find a half-full server so me and my mates can join, and whether it is > modded or not is secondary (hence filters / buttons seems a good idea) > > Browsing the steam forums, there seems to be a quite large contingent that > LIKES having significant gameplay differences in servers marked out; this is > not going away. > > Proposition 1: The contents of a server's sv_tag cvar should accurately > reflect the nature of the server. I don't know anyone who has an issue with > that; before the tags were implemented most game admins wanted to fling all > KINDS of information in there > > Proposition 2: Some of the contents of sv_tags should be auto-set and not > changeable. If you're alltalk, that tag goes in there. Low gravity, high > gravity, anything that might be a "feature" to attract or repel players. > This just means some of #1 is automated, reducing work for server admins > > Proposition 3: Only some specific autogenerated tags should automatically > mark the server as being custom/modded. Gravity adjustments, for example. > If I'm going to connect to a lowgrav server I damn well want to know it > first. Tags the system does not know about are assumed to be benign (ie GSP > tags) > > Proposition 4: Some non-autogenerated tags, or some mods whether mention in > tags or not, should also result in a server being custom/modded. To that > end, there should be a cvar which overrides classic listing and forces a > server to be custom/modded. > > Proposition 5: There should be an "all" view mode (or tab if valve > absolutely insist :/ ), and it should be default (The default should be > player-configurable or remember their last option). In this mode, classic > servers should be clearly distinguishable from custom/modded, presumably by > way of colours. When a player is using the "All" mode and clicks to connect > to a custom/modded server, he should get a pop-up notifying him that this > server could have signigicant gameplay differences from classic TF2, which > one of those "don't tell me again" checkboxes. > > Proposition 6: If this makes finding the servers players want easier for > them, it is a success. Accordingly, Valve should aggressively de-list game > servers which attempt to subvert the auto-generated portion of the system, > and strongly encourage mod authors to set appropriate tags and raise the > custom/modded flag when gameplay-altering aspects of their mods are enabled. > > Problems: > > Do higher player numbers count as custom? It can be argued the maps are > only designed for 24 players; then do LOWER player numbers count as custom? > What other cvar-derived settings might be assumed to be gameplay-altering? > Alltalk should be listed as a tag (in casual play I find it much better and > is an attractant, though serious players might be repelled due to the > inherent loss in team coordination) but is presumably not gameplay altering? > > Would players play on servers marked as custom/modded? Some always will, > especially on servers with strong communities, but the transient masses? If > they won't, then shouldn't game admins maybe tone down the mods anyway? > > Would game admins cooperate? Or would they still attempt to subvert the > classification system? Assuming the system is implemented as proposed, > again, doesn't that imply the admins are attempting to "trap" players and > lure them into servers under false pretences? > > Do I talk too much? (YES!) > > Opinions please > > Frymaster on behalf of games.127001.org > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date: 5/26/2008 > 3:23 PM > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Aaaargh, frankly. I posted this a while back, but have only just noticed I failed at setting the reply address to my subscription address. Most of what I said has now been said already, but I'm saying it already dammit! - "Classic" / "Modded" as opposed to "Internet" / "Custom" seems a rather good change, whether one tab or two. Though as a player, sometimes I just want to find a half-full server so me and my mates can join, and whether it is modded or not is secondary (hence filters / buttons seems a good idea) Browsing the steam forums, there seems to be a quite large contingent that LIKES having significant gameplay differences in servers marked out; this is not going away. Proposition 1: The contents of a server's sv_tag cvar should accurately reflect the nature of the server. I don't know anyone who has an issue with that; before the tags were implemented most game admins wanted to fling all KINDS of information in there Proposition 2: Some of the contents of sv_tags should be auto-set and not changeable. If you're alltalk, that tag goes in there. Low gravity, high gravity, anything that might be a "feature" to attract or repel players. This just means some of #1 is automated, reducing work for server admins Proposition 3: Only some specific autogenerated tags should automatically mark the server as being custom/modded. Gravity adjustments, for example. If I'm going to connect to a lowgrav server I damn well want to know it first. Tags the system does not know about are assumed to be benign (ie GSP tags) Proposition 4: Some non-autogenerated tags, or some mods whether mention in tags or not, should also result in a server being custom/modded. To that end, there should be a cvar which overrides classic listing and forces a server to be custom/modded. Proposition 5: There should be an "all" view mode (or tab if valve absolutely insist :/ ), and it should be default (The default should be player-configurable or remember their last option). In this mode, classic servers should be clearly distinguishable from custom/modded, presumably by way of colours. When a player is using the "All" mode and clicks to connect to a custom/modded server, he should get a pop-up notifying him that this server could have signigicant gameplay differences from classic TF2, which one of those "don't tell me again" checkboxes. Proposition 6: If this makes finding the servers players want easier for them, it is a success. Accordingly, Valve should aggressively de-list game servers which attempt to subvert the auto-generated portion of the system, and strongly encourage mod authors to set appropriate tags and raise the custom/modded flag when gameplay-altering aspects of their mods are enabled. Problems: Do higher player numbers count as custom? It can be argued the maps are only designed for 24 players; then do LOWER player numbers count as custom? What other cvar-derived settings might be assumed to be gameplay-altering? Alltalk should be listed as a tag (in casual play I find it much better and is an attractant, though serious players might be repelled due to the inherent loss in team coordination) but is presumably not gameplay altering? Would players play on servers marked as custom/modded? Some always will, especially on servers with strong communities, but the transient masses? If they won't, then shouldn't game admins maybe tone down the mods anyway? Would game admins cooperate? Or would they still attempt to subvert the classification system? Assuming the system is implemented as proposed, again, doesn't that imply the admins are attempting to "trap" players and lure them into servers under false pretences? Do I talk too much? (YES!) Opinions please Frymaster on behalf of games.127001.org ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
This is a post from Ondřej Hošek on the HLCoders list, which I think would be a good method: We should start asking for that. Display the tags on the Internet tab, > then give the players a few filtering options: "All tags", "No tags", > "Only the following", "At least the following", "Not the following" and > a text box. (You could actually strip out "all tags" and "no tags" -- > the same effect can be done with "at least the following" and "only the > following", respectively, with the textbox being empty; however, I'm not > sure if everyone would think of that when trying to find a fully > non-custom server.) This shall take away the incentive of server admins > hiding their tags just to attract players and should give the players > quite some tag filtering flexibility. > > Hell, if they're feeling adventurous (they probably aren't), a full-text > search field could be fun. "NOT (nocrits OR wordfilter) AND birthday" > picks out servers with crits, birthday mode and no word filter. (I just > wish server admins would put word-filtering into the tags. I hate not > being able to express my frustrations openly. However, as already said, > tags are bad for the admins who want full servers.) > 2008/5/27 JT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > FWIW, I'd like to see all servers on one tab, with custom servers > displayed in a different color, and a checkbox to filter them. The > first time someone selects a custom server, you'd get the message... > "Servers in red are custom servers... blah blah blah..." (and a "don't > bother me again" checkbox) > Also, is there some reason the entire list has to refresh when > switching between tabs? I'd rather have it load once when I first > open the browser, then refresh manually only when I want to. It's not > like new servers are popping up every few seconds. Then a search would > basically perform a grep on the cached server list. I think this would > ease traffic on valve's servers too. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
There's also a lot of people using my SM plugin as well ( http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=67899 ). It's probably not as efficient as the MM:S one Duodenum just posted, but it's an alternative for those who want it. Duod enum wrote: > I'm sure everyone on the list agrees that the custom tab doesn't work. > We're running this plugin > > http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=630058 > > on our servers. It's much better than modifying the sv_tags convar > repeatedly. > > It should work on any orangebox game. > > - Duodenum > > > >> - Original Message - >> From: Andreas Grimm >> Sent: 01:18 pm >> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab >> >> all i can say is: >> >> - remove the custom tab >> - create one list with one good filter for all servers >> - give vanilla-server-admins the possibility to use sv_tags to >> advert/describe their servers, too >> >> please valve, listen to your community >> >> - andreas >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Spencer >> 'voogru' >> MacDonald >> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:38 PM >> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab >> >> Yeah, I wanted to do the same. >> >> The entire idea is flawed, there is no way for valve to be aware of >> plug-ins >> or modifications installed on a server, any system they do try and come >> up >> with will be ruthlessly countered before they can say custom tab, and I >> seriously doubt they are going to hire moderators to go delist custom >> servers in the wrong place, when the solution is so much easier. >> >> I ran an experiment, I took 2 fake servers, put one on the custom tab, >> and >> one of them on the internet tab. The server on the custom tab received >> roughly 90% fewer queries. (Queries being players loading up the list and >> the server sending data to the client). >> >> - voogru. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan >> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:23 PM >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab >> >> The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that >> people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For >> example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set >> my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the >> servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I >> would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. >> >> I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and >> easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z >> Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. >> >> [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what >> I said does apply to other people.] >> >> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and >>> unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction >>> using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This >>> whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something >>> >> I >> >>> never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they >>> have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of >>> servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star >>> wars reference) ;-) >>> >>> Carl . wrote: >>> >>>> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these >>>> >> silly things long after >> >>>> the game is released. >>>> >>>> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had >>>> >> players then Valve >> >>>> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. >>>> >>>> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and >>>> >> because of
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
much better in what way? I don't see anything wrong with traditional way of doing it Duod enum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm sure everyone on the list agrees that the custom tab doesn't work.? We're running this plugin http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=630058 on our servers.?It's much better than modifying the sv_tags convar repeatedly. It should work on any orangebox game. ? Duodenum ?lt;br>> - Original Message - > From: Andreas Grimm > Sent: 01:18 pm > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > all i can say is: > > - remove the custom tab > - create one list with one good filter for all servers > - give vanilla-server-admins the possibility to use sv_tags to > advert/describe their servers, too > > please valve, listen to your community > > - andreas > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Spencer > 'voogru' > MacDonald > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:38 PM > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > Yeah, I wanted to do the same. > > The entire idea is flawed, there is no way for valve to be aware of > plug-ins > or modifications installed on a server, any system they do try and come > up > with will be ruthlessly countered before they can say custom tab, and I > seriously doubt they are going to hire moderators to go delist custom > servers in the wrong place, when the solution is so much easier. > > I ran an experiment, I took 2 fake servers, put one on the custom tab, > and > one of them on the internet tab. The server on the custom tab received > roughly 90% fewer queries. (Queries being players loading up the list and > the server sending data to the client). > > - voogru. > > > > -Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:23 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that > people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For > example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set > my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the > servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I > would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. > > I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and > easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z > Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. > > [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what > I said does apply to other people.] > > On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener > wrote: > > Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and > > unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction > > using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This > > whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something > I > > never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they > > have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of > > servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star > > wars reference) ;-) > > > > Carl . wrote: > >> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these > silly things long after > >> the game is released. > >> > >> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had > players then Valve > >> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. > >> > >> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and > because of that i get punished and > >> moved to the custom tab. > >> I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full > and > now i am tied to > >> a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. > >> > >> Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on > the > other hand just scrap the > >> custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters > as > many have suggested. > >> _ > >> > >> All new Live Search at Live.com > >> > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
I'm sure everyone on the list agrees that the custom tab doesn't work. We're running this plugin http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=630058 on our servers. It's much better than modifying the sv_tags convar repeatedly. It should work on any orangebox game. - Duodenum > - Original Message - > From: Andreas Grimm > Sent: 01:18 pm > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > all i can say is: > > - remove the custom tab > - create one list with one good filter for all servers > - give vanilla-server-admins the possibility to use sv_tags to > advert/describe their servers, too > > please valve, listen to your community > > - andreas > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Spencer > 'voogru' > MacDonald > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:38 PM > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > Yeah, I wanted to do the same. > > The entire idea is flawed, there is no way for valve to be aware of > plug-ins > or modifications installed on a server, any system they do try and come > up > with will be ruthlessly countered before they can say custom tab, and I > seriously doubt they are going to hire moderators to go delist custom > servers in the wrong place, when the solution is so much easier. > > I ran an experiment, I took 2 fake servers, put one on the custom tab, > and > one of them on the internet tab. The server on the custom tab received > roughly 90% fewer queries. (Queries being players loading up the list and > the server sending data to the client). > > - voogru. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:23 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that > people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For > example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set > my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the > servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I > would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. > > I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and > easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z > Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. > > [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what > I said does apply to other people.] > > On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and > > unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction > > using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This > > whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something > I > > never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they > > have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of > > servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star > > wars reference) ;-) > > > > Carl . wrote: > >> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these > silly things long after > >> the game is released. > >> > >> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had > players then Valve > >> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. > >> > >> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and > because of that i get punished and > >> moved to the custom tab. > >> I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full > and > now i am tied to > >> a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. > >> > >> Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on > the > other hand just scrap the > >> custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters > as > many have suggested. > >> _ > >> > >> All new Live Search at Live.com > >> > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your l
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
I agree that's exactly what should be done Andreas Grimm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: all i can say is: - remove the custom tab - create one list with one good filter for all servers - give vanilla-server-admins the possibility to use sv_tags to advert/describe their servers, too please valve, listen to your community - andreas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:38 PM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab Yeah, I wanted to do the same. The entire idea is flawed, there is no way for valve to be aware of plug-ins or modifications installed on a server, any system they do try and come up with will be ruthlessly countered before they can say custom tab, and I seriously doubt they are going to hire moderators to go delist custom servers in the wrong place, when the solution is so much easier. I ran an experiment, I took 2 fake servers, put one on the custom tab, and one of them on the internet tab. The server on the custom tab received roughly 90% fewer queries. (Queries being players loading up the list and the server sending data to the client). - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:23 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what I said does apply to other people.] On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener wrote: > Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and > unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction > using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This > whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something I > never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they > have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of > servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star > wars reference) ;-) > > Carl . wrote: >> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these silly things long after >> the game is released. >> >> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had players then Valve >> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. >> >> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and because of that i get punished and >> moved to the custom tab. >> I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full and now i am tied to >> a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. >> >> Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on the other hand just scrap the >> custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters as many have suggested. >> _ >> >> All new Live Search at Live.com >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/ma
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
all i can say is: - remove the custom tab - create one list with one good filter for all servers - give vanilla-server-admins the possibility to use sv_tags to advert/describe their servers, too please valve, listen to your community - andreas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:38 PM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab Yeah, I wanted to do the same. The entire idea is flawed, there is no way for valve to be aware of plug-ins or modifications installed on a server, any system they do try and come up with will be ruthlessly countered before they can say custom tab, and I seriously doubt they are going to hire moderators to go delist custom servers in the wrong place, when the solution is so much easier. I ran an experiment, I took 2 fake servers, put one on the custom tab, and one of them on the internet tab. The server on the custom tab received roughly 90% fewer queries. (Queries being players loading up the list and the server sending data to the client). - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:23 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what I said does apply to other people.] On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and > unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction > using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This > whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something I > never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they > have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of > servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star > wars reference) ;-) > > Carl . wrote: >> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these silly things long after >> the game is released. >> >> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had players then Valve >> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. >> >> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and because of that i get punished and >> moved to the custom tab. >> I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full and now i am tied to >> a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. >> >> Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on the other hand just scrap the >> custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters as many have suggested. >> _ >> >> All new Live Search at Live.com >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Yeah, I wanted to do the same. The entire idea is flawed, there is no way for valve to be aware of plug-ins or modifications installed on a server, any system they do try and come up with will be ruthlessly countered before they can say custom tab, and I seriously doubt they are going to hire moderators to go delist custom servers in the wrong place, when the solution is so much easier. I ran an experiment, I took 2 fake servers, put one on the custom tab, and one of them on the internet tab. The server on the custom tab received roughly 90% fewer queries. (Queries being players loading up the list and the server sending data to the client). - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:23 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what I said does apply to other people.] On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and > unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction > using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This > whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something I > never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they > have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of > servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star > wars reference) ;-) > > Carl . wrote: >> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these silly things long after >> the game is released. >> >> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had players then Valve >> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. >> >> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and because of that i get punished and >> moved to the custom tab. >> I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full and now i am tied to >> a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. >> >> Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on the other hand just scrap the >> custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters as many have suggested. >> _ >> >> All new Live Search at Live.com >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
The one other thing I think everybody can agree on is the idea that people do not use sv_tags properly because of the custom tab. For example, if the tag search was available for all servers, I would set my sv_tags to a2gaming, the name of my gaming community. Even if the servers were 100% pure without ANY form of mod or adminmod on it, I would go to the custom tab. Why? There are no mods. I would use this feature to help people find my servers quickly and easily, since filter search by name is not possible (other than A->Z Z->A). But I would never do it now, since it would put my on custom. [My servers are actually 32 players, but that's the only mod. But what I said does apply to other people.] On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Timothy L Havener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and > unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction > using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This > whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something I > never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they > have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of > servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star > wars reference) ;-) > > Carl . wrote: >> The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these silly >> things long after >> the game is released. >> >> I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had players >> then Valve >> decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. >> >> All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and because >> of that i get punished and >> moved to the custom tab. >> I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full and >> now i am tied to >> a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. >> >> Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on the >> other hand just scrap the >> custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters as >> many have suggested. >> _ >> >> All new Live Search at Live.com >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 >> 8:56 AM >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Does anyone else see what this is all a precursor to? Ranked and unranked servers. Valve is trying to push us all into that direction using things like the custom tab to soften us up to the idea. This whole "run a server like we want you to or else" attitude is something I never expected from Valve. They are killing the great community they have built with this crap. The tighter your grip around the content of servers grows the more players slip through your fingers.(little star wars reference) ;-) Carl . wrote: > The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these silly > things long after > the game is released. > > I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had players > then Valve > decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. > > All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and because > of that i get punished and > moved to the custom tab. > I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full and now > i am tied to > a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. > > Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on the > other hand just scrap the > custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters as many > have suggested. > _ > > All new Live Search at Live.com > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 > 8:56 AM > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
The thing that makes me mad is Valve always decide to implement these silly things long after the game is released. I bought 6 TF2 servers for a year and they were always full and had players then Valve decide to release the silly custom tab and now i have no players. All i have done to my server is took the gravity from 800 to 600 and because of that i get punished and moved to the custom tab. I bought these Servers under the impression they would always be full and now i am tied to a 12 month contract and i cant get rid of the servers. Thanks for wasting my money Valve i would like some compensation, on the other hand just scrap the custom server tab, put us back in the internet tab, and apply filters as many have suggested. _ All new Live Search at Live.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
> In Roman's idea, since
> everyone is listed to start, if it is done properly, I think you
> wouldn't need to worry about server admins lying about their server,
> and the whole 'force custom' issue is solved. It becomes beneficial to
> properly label your server so players can find it.
That never occurred to me. Good point there.
Heh, I love your idea for how the server browser should be. It's a real "web
2.0" style idea and would rock!
Shame it ain't gonna happen :(
I have to say the "moan" about sorting by Ping or Fullness is a new one for
this list (at least in my memory) but it's a good one: it's one of my gripes
as well :(
I agree that a good server browser should focus on your favourites and then
allow you to find others.
Most of the servers I actually play on regularly are ones I find by
recommendation etc. not from browsing in game.
Tom
--
From: "Nephyrin Zey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 2:48 PM
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
> Firstly, thanks for the good responses guys, probably the most
> thoughtful two posts about the custom tab yet.
>
> Secondly, I too like the "Classic" and "Modded" approach (even those
> terms are much clearer than 'internet' and 'custom' by 1000x). I also
> think that if the game defaults to 'all', with a *very visible*
> 'classic/modded' selection (in addition to a tags search that's not
> restricted to custom servers) there's *no* incentive for custom
> servers to lie about being classic.
>
> As a programmer myself, and admitted author of at least one of the
> anti-custom-tab plugins, I can tell you it is nothing but a losing
> battle to try to force people to another tab. Nor can valve even begin
> to manually check each server for compliance. In Roman's idea, since
> everyone is listed to start, if it is done properly, I think you
> wouldn't need to worry about server admins lying about their server,
> and the whole 'force custom' issue is solved. It becomes beneficial to
> properly label your server so players can find it. There'll always be
> a certain level of spoofing, but at this point players really would be
> looking for classic games on classic, and it wouldn't be nearly as
> beneficial
>
> I think another base problem with the server list is the way it
> presents servers. Right now it sorts them much like all games have
> since forever: Either by full-ness or ping. Neither of these
> (especially a one-shot ping) is a very good indicator of quality, and
> it leads to this whole 'get my server front and center' mentality
> that's the root of both this problem and the fake players (33x servers
> anyone?) problem. What the server browser *should* do is display to
> you 'your' servers, IE your favourites, with several different tools
> to find 'new' servers to play on.
>
> How I would envision an ideal server list: You open the browser to a
> default "my servers" window that has big squares to represent each
> server with 'time played' 'friends seen' etc. Servers could have a
> name and then a subtitle defining their affiliation/ownership (IE My
> primary server could appear as "Nemu's Stomping Grounds" with a banner
> below of "Doublezen.net Community"). You could place comments by these
> servers as well, that could be visible to you and friends. There would
> also be a side bar that would have smaller but similar boxes for
> servers your friends play on a lot ("Friend Servers") with their
> comments about them and maybe servers sponsored by your community.
> If you don't have a server to play on you could pick 'find new
> places to play' and it would bring up a more classical-style server
> browser. This browser would present, in order: A selection of your
> friends 'top servers', a selection of servers 'sponsored' by the steam
> communities you belong to, a small handful of popular servers amoungst
> members of the communities you belong to (with a button to 'see more'
> on all of these of course). After these would be 'featured servers'
> (perhaps maintained by valve or volunteers that select and feature
> quality servers at a certain rate) and a more general server list that
> you could sort by the classic means, perhaps with notes that point out
> who you know that might've been on a server, and a nice tags system so
> you could see what the server has to offer.
>
> Obviously that&#x
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
ld tell yet..) - these cater for a specific need anyway > and all GG/DM servers will be located in the custom tab - so no problem! Of > course if they mark "friendly fire" as custom that could be another matter > ;) > > @Roman: I'd concur with those ideas (I have just said I LIKE the custom tab, > and I do, but this is a much more elegant solution with the same effect). > > Regarding #2. I think that certain things should force the server to be > custom. So for example having a plugin loaded, or - in the case of TF2 - > having 32 players. > > Then allow server admins to tag their servers (perhaps with some pre-decided > default tags (gungame, deathmatch, custom maps etc..) as well as custom > ones) with the option to mark it as "custom" for the browsing. (there ya go > Neph.. you asked me to post ideas...) > > It seems the me that the only real problem people have with the custom tab > at the moment is it's lack of "visibility". > > Tom > > -- > From: "Roman Hatsiev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:27 PM > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > >> The idea behind Custom tab is to separate classic servers from modded >> ones. The idea is nice, I really love it. >> >> But the problem is that you cannot clearly distinguish those servers. >> How drastic changes to gameplay should be to classify server as >> modded? This leads to endless disputes. >> >> Also, as it was pointed out earlier, you cannot tell that the server >> is modded just by looking at some server variables. Remember mods like >> Gungame or Warcraft3 which change gameplay dramatically without even >> touching those variables. So any attempt to automatically mark server >> as modded by checking some predefined list of servers variables is >> flawed. >> >> So I believe that: >> >> 1. Separate tab for modded servers is unnecessary but what we really >> need here is three buttons, always visible on every server list. The >> buttons are All, Classic, Modded, so player can click either one of >> them without need to open filters bar. And All button should be >> pressed by default leaving actual choice to player without forcing it >> on him. Educational text should appear in tips windows which come up >> when user keep mouse cursor over one of those buttons for a few >> seconds, not just once as it currently implemented. >> >> 2. Separation between classic and modded servers should voluntary, it >> should be left up to server operator to decide whether to mark his >> server as modded or not. But with implementation of server browsing as >> suggested above I'm ready to give up on this one. >> >> 3. Tags system should be made available to all servers, including >> classic ones. I still welcome an idea of marking all my servers with >> my brand tag. >> >> Regards, >> >> Roman >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
@Neph: FYI I run 15 CSS servers for a couple of communities (of various types - Gungame 5, Deathmatch, vanilla and one glassfun 24/7 [that one is HELL to manage believe me :P]) and 2 TF2 servers (a normal and a custom map one) all of which are fairly busy to full. The custom tab barely affected the TF2 ones for me.. However I do see how those that valve see as custom will be affected by the bump to the custom tab AND that some of the stuff that your "de-listed" for is a bit silly. That said I do agree with their stance of 32 player servers being custom (can-o-worms opened :P). I dont see CSS being affected either. Deathmatch and Gungame are the ones that are likely to be "de-listed" in this case, (although as pointed out I dont see how they could tell yet..) - these cater for a specific need anyway and all GG/DM servers will be located in the custom tab - so no problem! Of course if they mark "friendly fire" as custom that could be another matter ;) @Roman: I'd concur with those ideas (I have just said I LIKE the custom tab, and I do, but this is a much more elegant solution with the same effect). Regarding #2. I think that certain things should force the server to be custom. So for example having a plugin loaded, or - in the case of TF2 - having 32 players. Then allow server admins to tag their servers (perhaps with some pre-decided default tags (gungame, deathmatch, custom maps etc..) as well as custom ones) with the option to mark it as "custom" for the browsing. (there ya go Neph.. you asked me to post ideas...) It seems the me that the only real problem people have with the custom tab at the moment is it's lack of "visibility". Tom -- From: "Roman Hatsiev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:27 PM To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > The idea behind Custom tab is to separate classic servers from modded > ones. The idea is nice, I really love it. > > But the problem is that you cannot clearly distinguish those servers. > How drastic changes to gameplay should be to classify server as > modded? This leads to endless disputes. > > Also, as it was pointed out earlier, you cannot tell that the server > is modded just by looking at some server variables. Remember mods like > Gungame or Warcraft3 which change gameplay dramatically without even > touching those variables. So any attempt to automatically mark server > as modded by checking some predefined list of servers variables is > flawed. > > So I believe that: > > 1. Separate tab for modded servers is unnecessary but what we really > need here is three buttons, always visible on every server list. The > buttons are All, Classic, Modded, so player can click either one of > them without need to open filters bar. And All button should be > pressed by default leaving actual choice to player without forcing it > on him. Educational text should appear in tips windows which come up > when user keep mouse cursor over one of those buttons for a few > seconds, not just once as it currently implemented. > > 2. Separation between classic and modded servers should voluntary, it > should be left up to server operator to decide whether to mark his > server as modded or not. But with implementation of server browsing as > suggested above I'm ready to give up on this one. > > 3. Tags system should be made available to all servers, including > classic ones. I still welcome an idea of marking all my servers with > my brand tag. > > Regards, > > Roman > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
The idea behind Custom tab is to separate classic servers from modded ones. The idea is nice, I really love it. But the problem is that you cannot clearly distinguish those servers. How drastic changes to gameplay should be to classify server as modded? This leads to endless disputes. Also, as it was pointed out earlier, you cannot tell that the server is modded just by looking at some server variables. Remember mods like Gungame or Warcraft3 which change gameplay dramatically without even touching those variables. So any attempt to automatically mark server as modded by checking some predefined list of servers variables is flawed. So I believe that: 1. Separate tab for modded servers is unnecessary but what we really need here is three buttons, always visible on every server list. The buttons are All, Classic, Modded, so player can click either one of them without need to open filters bar. And All button should be pressed by default leaving actual choice to player without forcing it on him. Educational text should appear in tips windows which come up when user keep mouse cursor over one of those buttons for a few seconds, not just once as it currently implemented. 2. Separation between classic and modded servers should voluntary, it should be left up to server operator to decide whether to mark his server as modded or not. But with implementation of server browsing as suggested above I'm ready to give up on this one. 3. Tags system should be made available to all servers, including classic ones. I still welcome an idea of marking all my servers with my brand tag. Regards, Roman ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Actually there have been some perfectly good suggestions on how to fix the problem some less drastic than others but I'm sure no one will disagree that even the basic naming of the tabs is confusing. We are not looking at LAN, Internet, Favourites here which everyone understands. We have Internet and Custom which to the average Joe means if he wants to play on the Internet he will pick that tab without a second thought for the strange "Custom" tab. The introduction of tags was a fantastic idea but its being totally ruined by the fact that anyone who goes to use this great new functionality is "banished" to the backroom Custom tab where, lets face facts, they are guaranteed to get less players. But of course its not even that simple, as there is nothing to stop admins using addons which prevent their low grav, big head, instagib server appearing on the "Internet" tab. Where all servers are meant to be, so called standard servers, hence totally defeating the objective of it anyway. Quick fix imo: Rename the tabs so they describe what is listed under them, so something like "Standard" and "Custom" would be good move. Even better ditch the Custom tab totally and make use of the great new tags system to clearly display what custom servers are running. This will "encourage" admins to advertise their funky new options instead of forcing them to hide it from players until they join. All in all a great new feature is being totally devalued by a poor implementation and needs to be fixed. I just really hope that someone is listening to these concerns and acts on it so we can all benefit from it at the end of the day. Regards Steve - Original Message - From: "Nephyrin Zey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > Impeccable logic. Sure people may SEEM to be 10/1 against it, but look > at how that internet petition failed! > > You're not suggesting any solutions or even arguments for why it's > still a good or feasible idea. The only impression i get from reading > your posts is that you run a vanilla server and think any > modifications are insipid and deserved to be shunned to another tab > where you couldn't care less if players don't find them, more traffic > for you and the version of the game you support, yes? Or was that > horribly bias? I'm sorry, I'm just assuming things based on flimsy > evidence, but it seems to be working quite well for you. > > Not that any of that are anti-custom-tab are any less guilty of just > putting forth flimsy reasons for your case that arn't helping > anything. I personally think alltalk is retarded in a game highly > based on strategic teamwork. And that anyone running a gravity mod > shouldn't be hard to distinguish from a serious damn server. So maybe > you ALL should look at both sides of the argument and try to discuss > what you think the solution should be in more detail. There *IS* a > problem with a bunch of non-game-representative crazy servers being on > the list. There *are* issues with implementing a good single-tab > filter (think: custom hidden by default? same issues if it is or > isn't?). > > Going 'learn to work with it!' (it's horribly broken and unfixable) or > 'single tab, it's easy!' (i'm more in favor of this, but still major > issues) isn't helping shit guys. You're destroying (or have destroyed) > any chance that valve cares about what is said on this list about the > subject, they probably regard these lists as a bunch of kids angry > about their servers standings (and they're mostly right) > > tl;dr: It's just a damn game. Talk about it if you have a good idea or > solution, or just let Valve do what they will about it. If you want to > keep the discussion going so valve hears you, at least think of > something to bring to it. All of you. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
the problem is that valve couldn't come up with a better system they should have put all servers in the same tab and place several buttons in the search window for players convenience to separate vanilla servers from the custom servers with a simple click, not going back and forth between the internet tab and the custom tab or never go to the custom tab Nephyrin Zey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Impeccable logic. Sure people may SEEM to be 10/1 against it, but look at how that internet petition failed! You're not suggesting any solutions or even arguments for why it's still a good or feasible idea. The only impression i get from reading your posts is that you run a vanilla server and think any modifications are insipid and deserved to be shunned to another tab where you couldn't care less if players don't find them, more traffic for you and the version of the game you support, yes? Or was that horribly bias? I'm sorry, I'm just assuming things based on flimsy evidence, but it seems to be working quite well for you. Not that any of that are anti-custom-tab are any less guilty of just putting forth flimsy reasons for your case that arn't helping anything. I personally think alltalk is retarded in a game highly based on strategic teamwork. And that anyone running a gravity mod shouldn't be hard to distinguish from a serious damn server. So maybe you ALL should look at both sides of the argument and try to discuss what you think the solution should be in more detail. There *IS* a problem with a bunch of non-game-representative crazy servers being on the list. There *are* issues with implementing a good single-tab filter (think: custom hidden by default? same issues if it is or isn't?). Going 'learn to work with it!' (it's horribly broken and unfixable) or 'single tab, it's easy!' (i'm more in favor of this, but still major issues) isn't helping shit guys. You're destroying (or have destroyed) any chance that valve cares about what is said on this list about the subject, they probably regard these lists as a bunch of kids angry about their servers standings (and they're mostly right) tl;dr: It's just a damn game. Talk about it if you have a good idea or solution, or just let Valve do what they will about it. If you want to keep the discussion going so valve hears you, at least think of something to bring to it. All of you. - Neph On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 2:40 AM, Thomas Morton wrote: > Well it seems that the few of you still commenting on this are in a severe > minority.. I'm not worried by the custom tab at all.. if it comes to CSS so > be it.. > > I for one can work with it and dont expect to lose peeps from my servers. > > ---> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tf2customtab/signatures.html > > That got 62 signatures after being posted to the list here I imagine > that a LOT more people than that read the list. Even if it's not a 100% > accurate guide the general feeling it does tend to suggest that the custom > tab has gone down well with - or at least is being accepted by - the > majority. > > ------------------ > From: "Craig Collinson" > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:28 AM > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > >> the majority of people on this list are gsp's or community leaders etc >> which >> lets face it valve dont care what we think we need some way of letting the >> public vote on this matter maybe valve should release a new survey like >> there pc spec one to see what the gamers want instead ? >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Impeccable logic. Sure people may SEEM to be 10/1 against it, but look at how that internet petition failed! You're not suggesting any solutions or even arguments for why it's still a good or feasible idea. The only impression i get from reading your posts is that you run a vanilla server and think any modifications are insipid and deserved to be shunned to another tab where you couldn't care less if players don't find them, more traffic for you and the version of the game you support, yes? Or was that horribly bias? I'm sorry, I'm just assuming things based on flimsy evidence, but it seems to be working quite well for you. Not that any of that are anti-custom-tab are any less guilty of just putting forth flimsy reasons for your case that arn't helping anything. I personally think alltalk is retarded in a game highly based on strategic teamwork. And that anyone running a gravity mod shouldn't be hard to distinguish from a serious damn server. So maybe you ALL should look at both sides of the argument and try to discuss what you think the solution should be in more detail. There *IS* a problem with a bunch of non-game-representative crazy servers being on the list. There *are* issues with implementing a good single-tab filter (think: custom hidden by default? same issues if it is or isn't?). Going 'learn to work with it!' (it's horribly broken and unfixable) or 'single tab, it's easy!' (i'm more in favor of this, but still major issues) isn't helping shit guys. You're destroying (or have destroyed) any chance that valve cares about what is said on this list about the subject, they probably regard these lists as a bunch of kids angry about their servers standings (and they're mostly right) tl;dr: It's just a damn game. Talk about it if you have a good idea or solution, or just let Valve do what they will about it. If you want to keep the discussion going so valve hears you, at least think of something to bring to it. All of you. - Neph On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 2:40 AM, Thomas Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well it seems that the few of you still commenting on this are in a severe > minority.. I'm not worried by the custom tab at all.. if it comes to CSS so > be it.. > > I for one can work with it and dont expect to lose peeps from my servers. > > ---> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tf2customtab/signatures.html > > That got 62 signatures after being posted to the list here I imagine > that a LOT more people than that read the list. Even if it's not a 100% > accurate guide the general feeling it does tend to suggest that the custom > tab has gone down well with - or at least is being accepted by - the > majority. > > ------ > From: "Craig Collinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:28 AM > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > >> the majority of people on this list are gsp's or community leaders etc >> which >> lets face it valve dont care what we think we need some way of letting the >> public vote on this matter maybe valve should release a new survey like >> there pc spec one to see what the gamers want instead ? >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Well it seems that the few of you still commenting on this are in a severe minority.. I'm not worried by the custom tab at all.. if it comes to CSS so be it.. I for one can work with it and dont expect to lose peeps from my servers. ---> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tf2customtab/signatures.html That got 62 signatures after being posted to the list here I imagine that a LOT more people than that read the list. Even if it's not a 100% accurate guide the general feeling it does tend to suggest that the custom tab has gone down well with - or at least is being accepted by - the majority. -- From: "Craig Collinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:28 AM To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > the majority of people on this list are gsp's or community leaders etc > which > lets face it valve dont care what we think we need some way of letting the > public vote on this matter maybe valve should release a new survey like > there pc spec one to see what the gamers want instead ? > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
the majority of people on this list are gsp's or community leaders etc which lets face it valve dont care what we think we need some way of letting the public vote on this matter maybe valve should release a new survey like there pc spec one to see what the gamers want instead ? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
It's not spam. It's voicing our displeasure of the current system. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tgnwells Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 11:37 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab It will provide a public outlet for our constant rage. That's good enough. Kevin Ottalini wrote: > Spam will destroy the usefullness of this mail list and will not accomplish > anything at all. > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald" > To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > > >> I agree. >> >> We need to all be constantly sending messages on this mailing list until >> the system is properly implemented. >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
It will provide a public outlet for our constant rage. That's good enough. Kevin Ottalini wrote: > Spam will destroy the usefullness of this mail list and will not accomplish > anything at all. > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald" > To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > > >> I agree. >> >> We need to all be constantly sending messages on this mailing list until >> the system is properly implemented. >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Spam will destroy the usefullness of this mail list and will not accomplish anything at all. - Original Message - From: "Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald" To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab >I agree. > > We need to all be constantly sending messages on this mailing list until > the system is properly implemented. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
I agree. We need to all be constantly sending messages on this mailing list until the system is properly implemented. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy L Havener Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 8:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab Why does every dev keep trying to reinvent the wheel? Classic server browser with filters is always the best. Stop telling people which servers you think they should join and let them decide and if they can't figure it out on their own that's just called culling the herd. [ЯтR] The-/ Aye, stop being lazy and use the system that has been long proven and > works great... don't be a baby and have to have your hand guided for you... > > Saint K. wrote: > >> One word. Filters >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox >> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:23 AM >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab >> >> I personally love the custom tabs. I can't wait till its completely >> integrated in and valve follows through and delists the servers that >> willingly by pass the system. It's great not having to cycle through a >> bunch of servers to find one that is set how the game was ment to be >> played. >> >> Carl . wrote: >> >> >>> I Agree scrap the custom server tab, i have 6 server now dead thanks to >>> >>> >> that >> >> >>> tab. >>> >>> Beep Beep >>> _ >>> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001009ukm/direct/01/ >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> >>> >> please visit: >> >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 > 8:56 AM > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Why does every dev keep trying to reinvent the wheel? Classic server browser with filters is always the best. Stop telling people which servers you think they should join and let them decide and if they can't figure it out on their own that's just called culling the herd. [ЯтR] The-/ Aye, stop being lazy and use the system that has been long proven and > works great... don't be a baby and have to have your hand guided for you... > > Saint K. wrote: > >> One word. Filters >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox >> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:23 AM >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab >> >> I personally love the custom tabs. I can't wait till its completely >> integrated in and valve follows through and delists the servers that >> willingly by pass the system. It's great not having to cycle through a >> bunch of servers to find one that is set how the game was ment to be >> played. >> >> Carl . wrote: >> >> >>> I Agree scrap the custom server tab, i have 6 server now dead thanks to >>> >>> >> that >> >> >>> tab. >>> >>> Beep Beep >>> _ >>> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001009ukm/direct/01/ >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> >>> >> please visit: >> >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 > 8:56 AM > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
Aye, stop being lazy and use the system that has been long proven and works great... don't be a baby and have to have your hand guided for you... Saint K. wrote: > One word. Filters > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:23 AM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab > > I personally love the custom tabs. I can't wait till its completely > integrated in and valve follows through and delists the servers that > willingly by pass the system. It's great not having to cycle through a > bunch of servers to find one that is set how the game was ment to be > played. > > Carl . wrote: > >> I Agree scrap the custom server tab, i have 6 server now dead thanks to >> > that > >> tab. >> >> Beep Beep >> _ >> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001009ukm/direct/01/ >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
One word. Filters -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:23 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab I personally love the custom tabs. I can't wait till its completely integrated in and valve follows through and delists the servers that willingly by pass the system. It's great not having to cycle through a bunch of servers to find one that is set how the game was ment to be played. Carl . wrote: > I Agree scrap the custom server tab, i have 6 server now dead thanks to that > tab. > > Beep Beep > _ > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001009ukm/direct/01/ > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
I personally love the custom tabs. I can't wait till its completely integrated in and valve follows through and delists the servers that willingly by pass the system. It's great not having to cycle through a bunch of servers to find one that is set how the game was ment to be played. Carl . wrote: > I Agree scrap the custom server tab, i have 6 server now dead thanks to that > tab. > > Beep Beep > _ > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001009ukm/direct/01/ > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Scrap the custome server tab
I Agree scrap the custom server tab, i have 6 server now dead thanks to that tab. Beep Beep _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001009ukm/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
