Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. As far as I'm aware, this is strictly false. The raw frame rate (i.e. the number of _frames per second_), it determined entirely by non-network hardware (CPU, graphics adapter, memory, motherboard, etc.) and local configuration/state only. In other words, it is not affected by your network configuration whatsoever. However, of course, one's network connection does affect the overall performance, as in connection problems can cause visual anomalies (players warping, jittery movement, etc), but a player will notice that their measured frame rate (using 'net_graph 3' to view) does not vary. On 19/02/06, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? There are so many varibales (Hardware, other software demands on your hardware, networking), sure I can get a 30 second test on just about any system to put out 60+ FPS (after shuting down just about every service that is not required), but you have to look past the video test. When you playing on internet based servers your FPS are effected by many factors. For instance your ISP method of tranfer from you to the internet (wireless or wired, T1,DSL or Cable). The distance between players in a given server, when the server has to wait for data before it can genrate the next frame so does your client. So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. Then muplti that by the number of players in the server (and lets not forget they have the same changle as you do getting to a remote server) and boom you have uncontrolable factors that cause poor output in the game. So until the world is running on door to door fiber networks I really don't see any way Valve can fix a connection based problem. Dustin From: Dan Stevens (IAmAI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:45 + I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand how frustrating it can be. I am personally extremely frustrated. So, now I beat my dog. It's okay cause he's ugly and I think he likes it. ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006
RE: [hlds] Whining or true?
This is 100% true (I mean some weirdness in your connection could take CPU away from the game like playing OVER a VPN tunnel) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Stevens (IAmAI) Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:32 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. As far as I'm aware, this is strictly false. The raw frame rate (i.e. the number of _frames per second_), it determined entirely by non-network hardware (CPU, graphics adapter, memory, motherboard, etc.) and local configuration/state only. In other words, it is not affected by your network configuration whatsoever. However, of course, one's network connection does affect the overall performance, as in connection problems can cause visual anomalies (players warping, jittery movement, etc), but a player will notice that their measured frame rate (using 'net_graph 3' to view) does not vary. On 19/02/06, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? There are so many varibales (Hardware, other software demands on your hardware, networking), sure I can get a 30 second test on just about any system to put out 60+ FPS (after shuting down just about every service that is not required), but you have to look past the video test. When you playing on internet based servers your FPS are effected by many factors. For instance your ISP method of tranfer from you to the internet (wireless or wired, T1,DSL or Cable). The distance between players in a given server, when the server has to wait for data before it can genrate the next frame so does your client. So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. Then muplti that by the number of players in the server (and lets not forget they have the same changle as you do getting to a remote server) and boom you have uncontrolable factors that cause poor output in the game. So until the world is running on door to door fiber networks I really don't see any way Valve can fix a connection based problem. Dustin From: Dan Stevens (IAmAI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:45 + I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand
Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
...like playing OVER a VPN tunnel Well, that's like a seriously bad idea in the first place anyway :P On 20/02/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is 100% true (I mean some weirdness in your connection could take CPU away from the game like playing OVER a VPN tunnel) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Stevens (IAmAI) Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:32 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. As far as I'm aware, this is strictly false. The raw frame rate (i.e. the number of _frames per second_), it determined entirely by non-network hardware (CPU, graphics adapter, memory, motherboard, etc.) and local configuration/state only. In other words, it is not affected by your network configuration whatsoever. However, of course, one's network connection does affect the overall performance, as in connection problems can cause visual anomalies (players warping, jittery movement, etc), but a player will notice that their measured frame rate (using 'net_graph 3' to view) does not vary. On 19/02/06, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? There are so many varibales (Hardware, other software demands on your hardware, networking), sure I can get a 30 second test on just about any system to put out 60+ FPS (after shuting down just about every service that is not required), but you have to look past the video test. When you playing on internet based servers your FPS are effected by many factors. For instance your ISP method of tranfer from you to the internet (wireless or wired, T1,DSL or Cable). The distance between players in a given server, when the server has to wait for data before it can genrate the next frame so does your client. So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. Then muplti that by the number of players in the server (and lets not forget they have the same changle as you do getting to a remote server) and boom you have uncontrolable factors that cause poor output in the game. So until the world is running on door to door fiber networks I really don't see any way Valve can fix a connection based problem. Dustin From: Dan Stevens (IAmAI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:45 + I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I
RE: [hlds] Whining or true?
I work for a GSP, and a very very large one at that. My IP at work resolves back to my employer. So I VPN to a router that DOESN'T. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Stevens (IAmAI) Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:28 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? ...like playing OVER a VPN tunnel Well, that's like a seriously bad idea in the first place anyway :P On 20/02/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is 100% true (I mean some weirdness in your connection could take CPU away from the game like playing OVER a VPN tunnel) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Stevens (IAmAI) Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:32 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. As far as I'm aware, this is strictly false. The raw frame rate (i.e. the number of _frames per second_), it determined entirely by non-network hardware (CPU, graphics adapter, memory, motherboard, etc.) and local configuration/state only. In other words, it is not affected by your network configuration whatsoever. However, of course, one's network connection does affect the overall performance, as in connection problems can cause visual anomalies (players warping, jittery movement, etc), but a player will notice that their measured frame rate (using 'net_graph 3' to view) does not vary. On 19/02/06, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? There are so many varibales (Hardware, other software demands on your hardware, networking), sure I can get a 30 second test on just about any system to put out 60+ FPS (after shuting down just about every service that is not required), but you have to look past the video test. When you playing on internet based servers your FPS are effected by many factors. For instance your ISP method of tranfer from you to the internet (wireless or wired, T1,DSL or Cable). The distance between players in a given server, when the server has to wait for data before it can genrate the next frame so does your client. So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. Then muplti that by the number of players in the server (and lets not forget they have the same changle as you do getting to a remote server) and boom you have uncontrolable factors that cause poor output in the game. So until the world is running on door to door fiber networks I really don't see any way Valve can fix a connection based problem. Dustin From: Dan Stevens (IAmAI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:45 + I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from
Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? There are so many varibales (Hardware, other software demands on your hardware, networking), sure I can get a 30 second test on just about any system to put out 60+ FPS (after shuting down just about every service that is not required), but you have to look past the video test. When you playing on internet based servers your FPS are effected by many factors. For instance your ISP method of tranfer from you to the internet (wireless or wired, T1,DSL or Cable). The distance between players in a given server, when the server has to wait for data before it can genrate the next frame so does your client. So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. Then muplti that by the number of players in the server (and lets not forget they have the same changle as you do getting to a remote server) and boom you have uncontrolable factors that cause poor output in the game. So until the world is running on door to door fiber networks I really don't see any way Valve can fix a connection based problem. Dustin From: Dan Stevens (IAmAI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:45 + I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand how frustrating it can be. I am personally extremely frustrated. So, now I beat my dog. It's okay cause he's ugly and I think he likes it. ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand how frustrating it can be. I am personally extremely frustrated. So, now I beat my dog. It's okay cause he's ugly and I think he likes it. ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
Dustin Tuft wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? I know there are other factors. I'm not saying just one test. The Video Test scores could be from all kinds of hardware. This is just an example it don't mean it's what happened. Example: Valve's Data indicates In average scores 100 FPS is the average. Then people e-mail in and say I'm only getting 20 FPS Valve looks at there data and confirms the ATI X800, AMD 3500, 1 Gig ram equals 150 FPS and in there minds they say He's a whiner. Then Valve doesn't take the complaint seriously. The point that I was trying to make is that maybe the information Valve has collected on it's own might be different than what true users are experiencing. Plus, the input Valve is getting from us could be mis-interpreted. Could it be a true issue or are these just whiners? Thats why important not to whine but to be clear and if you see others having a problem that you've dealt with let Valve know you had the same thing.. Does this make sense now? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Whining or true?
Sounds like Valve should just instrument the games to provide better data, like reporting min, max and mean FPS etc. as well as per-mod data like player numbers and anything else that's relevant, on every map change. That'd provide much more relevant data than the stress tests. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DT Sent: 20 February 2006 02:31 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Dustin Tuft wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? I know there are other factors. I'm not saying just one test. The Video Test scores could be from all kinds of hardware. This is just an example it don't mean it's what happened. Example: Valve's Data indicates In average scores 100 FPS is the average. Then people e-mail in and say I'm only getting 20 FPS Valve looks at there data and confirms the ATI X800, AMD 3500, 1 Gig ram equals 150 FPS and in there minds they say He's a whiner. Then Valve doesn't take the complaint seriously. The point that I was trying to make is that maybe the information Valve has collected on it's own might be different than what true users are experiencing. Plus, the input Valve is getting from us could be mis-interpreted. Could it be a true issue or are these just whiners? Thats why important not to whine but to be clear and if you see others having a problem that you've dealt with let Valve know you had the same thing.. Does this make sense now? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can't believe that you think they do On 2/20/06, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guys can't truely belive that Valve bases all performance on a single video test? There are so many varibales (Hardware, other software demands on your hardware, networking), sure I can get a 30 second test on just about any system to put out 60+ FPS (after shuting down just about every service that is not required), but you have to look past the video test. When you playing on internet based servers your FPS are effected by many factors. For instance your ISP method of tranfer from you to the internet (wireless or wired, T1,DSL or Cable). The distance between players in a given server, when the server has to wait for data before it can genrate the next frame so does your client. So think about, most of the Lag (or drop in FPS) in the game is caused by internet by products, slow routers, busy routers and your local connect setup in the first place. Then muplti that by the number of players in the server (and lets not forget they have the same changle as you do getting to a remote server) and boom you have uncontrolable factors that cause poor output in the game. So until the world is running on door to door fiber networks I really don't see any way Valve can fix a connection based problem. Dustin From: Dan Stevens (IAmAI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true? Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:13:45 + I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Does anyone think that it might be possible to, via a mod, create a custom video test and hack it so sends frame rate report as if it had come the official video test. If everyone then used the custom video test, Valve may get a more 'accurate' survey of performance. I'm sending this question to coders list, as I'd guess they'd be more likely to know the answer. I hope that doesn't cause any technical inconveniences. On 19/02/06, Brian M Frain (eternal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand how frustrating it can be. I am personally extremely frustrated. So, now I beat my dog. It's okay cause he's ugly and I think he likes it. ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences
[hlds] Whining or true?
I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand how frustrating it can be. I am personally extremely frustrated. So, now I beat my dog. It's okay cause he's ugly and I think he likes it. ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think you are right, I mean the general opinion does matter and should be considered by the ever churning valve machine but when it all comes down to it the fact is your dog is ugly. :) On 2/18/06, DT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Valve is not sure whether the complaints are real or are from whiners. For example: On the client side the video test in CS:S gave me an average FPS of 110, and that data was sent to Valve. But in the real world my system would be unplayable at times. The FPS would drop when all the players were together fighting. So some would complain to Valve about the FPS but Valve had it's data (from the video test) telling them everyone was getting decent FPS'. Also, I'm sure there was a lot of hackers crying to Valve saying they were just good players and got banned because of their skill. So Valve took the opinion that there was not that many hacks out there and all complaining were just whiners. I think that some of the info that Valve got was not real world experiences and when we complain that are not sure if it's legit or Whining. So, I would suggest that when you see an e-mail that you have experienced then to let them know. I understand how frustrating it can be. I am personally extremely frustrated. So, now I beat my dog. It's okay cause he's ugly and I think he likes it. ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
