Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
In all fairness to Valve, you don't hear as much about false bans these days. I attribute this to the maturity of VAC - IOW, they are getting their act together. I'm not saying that VAC is great or even good - just that it seems to be working better then it used to. ___ You have got to be seriously kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?! -- In the market for a car? Buy, sell or browse at Carpoint.[1] 1) I'm not in the market for a car, go spam somewnere else 2) No, I'm not kidding 3) Yes, there have been fewer complaints about false bans 4) I didn't say VAC is great or even good 5) It is more mature then it used to be. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] ---Original Message Follows From: Ooks Server [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:21:57 -0700 In all fairness to Valve, you don't hear as much about false bans these days. I attribute this to the maturity of VAC - IOW, they are getting their act together. I'm not saying that VAC is great or even good - just that it seems to be working better then it used to. ___ You have got to be seriously kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?! -- In the market for a car? Buy, sell or browse at Carpoint.[1] 1) I'm not in the market for a car, go spam somewnere else 2) No, I'm not kidding 3) Yes, there have been fewer complaints about false bans 4) I didn't say VAC is great or even good 5) It is more mature then it used to be. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds[1] There are fewer complaints because VAC doesn't bloody well catch anybody!!! Mature, as in slow and old and almost dead?? -- In the market for a car? Buy, sell or browse at Carpoint.[2] ===References:=== 1. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds 2. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENAU/2746??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] He is assuming that none of us can do maths with those stupid numbers. I already walked everybody through how long it would take 250,000 people to download 1GB of data. He has doubled the Bandwidth which is fine but also doubled the size of the download. Any way you cut it, its a disaster! BTW, if it were 1,000,000 people at those speeds, (16Gbps) its still going to take 11.5 days to serve all of them assuming you could burst it out at full speed and serve 1 person per second. I'd hate to be at the end of that queue! In any case people can play word games all they want in an attempt to obfuscate what is actually going to happen. Original Message Follows From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:44:36 -0400 Gabe Wrote this the in HL2fallout Forum Steam's Bandwidth Zips @ 12:33 am pdt - steam updates - 22 comments For those of you worried about Steam's ability to handle massive file transfers, worry no more. A posting by Gabe Newell at the Half-Life 2 Fallout forums should put your minds at ease with regard to future updates and content pre-loads (including the Counter-Strike: Source BETA for CZ/ATI owners and the small Half-Life 2 pre-load, both coming up within the week). In terms of network bandwidth, we're currently running at 4 Gbps, and will boost to 7 Gbps when we start pre-loading. We have the option of increasing that to 14 Gbps with a phone call (admittedly a really expensive phone call). Since Half-Life 2 is ~2 GB (or 16 Gb) over the wire, we can serve up about a person/second with a complete copy of the game. These are idealized numbers - the real capacity planning numbers are quite a bit lower. Simply put, this means that the more bandwidth Steam has available, the faster a large group of people will be able to download content without slowing the rest of the service down Munra -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brandon Dumont - MWEB Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Good Idea Would be nice to mirrow it for my local dsl users as most of them have a 3gig internation cap. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Dude ... VAC ain't working at all now. Maybe there are no false bans but it only detects outdated cheats. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ooks Server Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Actually false bans aren't really a problem in my opinion. Last time my friend was falsely banned he contacted valve through the steam website and they determined that he was indeed falsely banned, and removed it. And as far as I can remember, any mass false-banning that happened was always reversed, without any work of the clients being done. In all fairness to Valve, you don't hear as much about false bans these days. I attribute this to the maturity of VAC - IOW, they are getting their act together. I'm not saying that VAC is great or even good - just that it seems to be working better then it used to. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
K. Mike Bradley wrote: Dude ... VAC ain't working at all now. Maybe there are no false bans but it only detects outdated cheats. If it is not working at all then how can it possible detect outdated cheat??? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Let me clarify When I said VAC is not working at all, I meant that it is doing nothing to stop hackers and cheaters because they all use the latest hacks including MyGOT. VAC will of course detect outdated cheats which no one is using anymore. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) K. Mike Bradley wrote: Dude ... VAC ain't working at all now. Maybe there are no false bans but it only detects outdated cheats. If it is not working at all then how can it possible detect outdated cheat??? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Original Message Follows From: Ooks Server [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:49:49 -0700 Actually false bans aren't really a problem in my opinion. Last time my friend was falsely banned he contacted valve through the steam website and they determined that he was indeed falsely banned, and removed it. And as far as I can remember, any mass false-banning that happened was always reversed, without any work of the clients being done. In all fairness to Valve, you don't hear as much about false bans these days. I attribute this to the maturity of VAC - IOW, they are getting their act together. I'm not saying that VAC is great or even good - just that it seems to be working better then it used to. ___ You have got to be seriously kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?! -- In the market for a car? Buy, sell or browse at Carpoint.[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2746??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
1 - what would be the best way to get stolen cd keys retrieved? Buy another copy of Half-Life. Has Valve ever once issued a new CD key? Too many kiddies get banned for cheating and then go cry to Valve for a new key. The crap will really hit the fan when HL2 comes out and we pay an arm and a leg, only to find that we got hit with a false ban or for some reason need a new key/steamID. Go pay $60 for another copy simply is not an acceptable answer. I hope that Valve comes up with some way to address these issues, otherwise the next thing you know there will be a huge class action lawsuit against them in behalf of all of the people who had stolen keys, false bans, etc. 2 - whats up with steam? Been having no end of problems with it today and their forums are down? I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak bandwidth periods. /pessimism - Original Message - From: Brandon Dumont - MWEB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:57 AM Subject: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) 1 - what would be the best way to get stolen cd keys retrieved? 2 - whats up with steam? Been having no end of problems with it today and their forums are down? Cheers all MWEB: S.A.'s trusted Internet Service Provider. Just Like that. To join, click here or call 08600 32000. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Ooks Server wrote: 1 - what would be the best way to get stolen cd keys retrieved? Buy another copy of Half-Life. Has Valve ever once issued a new CD key? Too many kiddies get banned for cheating and then go cry to Valve for a new key. The crap will really hit the fan when HL2 comes out and we pay an arm and a leg, only to find that we got hit with a false ban or for some reason need a new key/steamID. Go pay $60 for another copy simply is not an acceptable answer. I hope that Valve comes up with some way to address these issues, otherwise the next thing you know there will be a huge class action lawsuit against them in behalf of all of the people who had stolen keys, false bans, etc. 2 - whats up with steam? Been having no end of problems with it today and their forums are down? I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak bandwidth periods. You do realize that they increased their bandwith to 8Gb/s for the CS:S pre-load and only used one half of that. When Hl2 release approaches the plan is to increase it another 4Gb/s. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
The crap will really hit the fan when HL2 comes out and we pay an arm and a leg, only to find that we got hit with a false ban or for some reason need a new key/steamID. Go pay $60 for another copy simply is not an acceptable answer. I hope that Valve comes up with some way to address these issues, otherwise the next thing you know there will be a huge class action lawsuit against them in behalf of all of the people who had stolen keys, false bans, etc. Actually false bans aren't really a problem in my opinion. Last time my friend was falsely banned he contacted valve through the steam website and they determined that he was indeed falsely banned, and removed it. And as far as I can remember, any mass false-banning that happened was always reversed, without any work of the clients being done. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling into a heap! I predict another disaster I know how they can alleviate the problem though, but I do not know how big a deal it is, but Valve definitely did not have a problem preloading Condition Zero on my computer and its updates without my consent, I cannot even turn off the fact that its going to do this, which shits me to no end. But in any case the way to help solve the bandwidth limitation problem would be to release the HL2 gcf file(s) to all the major file distributor sites and let people download it through there and pick up any pieces through the STEAM Content Servers, thats how it should be done until Valve have access to a STEAM Content Network with at least 100Gbps worth of Bandwith which even then probably wouln't be enough, but at least it would not be a total disaster! I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak bandwidth periods. You do realize that they increased their bandwith to 8Gb/s for the CS:S pre-load and only used one half of that. When Hl2 release approaches the plan is to increase it another 4Gb/s. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Feeling spent? Apply here for emergency plastic surgery. Virgincreditcard.com.au [1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2737??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Searching for that dream home? Click here [1] for all your property needs. ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2752??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Good Idea Would be nice to mirrow it for my local dsl users as most of them have a 3gig internation cap. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling into a heap! I predict another disaster I know how they can alleviate the problem though, but I do not know how big a deal it is, but Valve definitely did not have a problem preloading Condition Zero on my computer and its updates without my consent, I cannot even turn off the fact that its going to do this, which shits me to no end. But in any case the way to help solve the bandwidth limitation problem would be to release the HL2 gcf file(s) to all the major file distributor sites and let people download it through there and pick up any pieces through the STEAM Content Servers, thats how it should be done until Valve have access to a STEAM Content Network with at least 100Gbps worth of Bandwith which even then probably wouln't be enough, but at least it would not be a total disaster! I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak bandwidth periods. You do realize that they increased their bandwith to 8Gb/s for the CS:S pre-load and only used one half of that. When Hl2 release approaches the plan is to increase it another 4Gb/s. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Feeling spent? Apply here for emergency plastic surgery. Virgincreditcard.com.au [1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2737??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
I don't know what you guys would think about this but this is a really good time to think about bittorrent as an option. It's perfect for distributing large files to a large audience. If many people chose to use BT, then people would have no problem at downloading hl2 at 300KB/s and up, plus, this would reduce valve's need for bandwidth more than half. - Original Message - From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling into a heap! I predict another disaster I know how they can alleviate the problem though, but I do not know how big a deal it is, but Valve definitely did not have a problem preloading Condition Zero on my computer and its updates without my consent, I cannot even turn off the fact that its going to do this, which shits me to no end. But in any case the way to help solve the bandwidth limitation problem would be to release the HL2 gcf file(s) to all the major file distributor sites and let people download it through there and pick up any pieces through the STEAM Content Servers, thats how it should be done until Valve have access to a STEAM Content Network with at least 100Gbps worth of Bandwith which even then probably wouln't be enough, but at least it would not be a total disaster! I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak bandwidth periods. You do realize that they increased their bandwith to 8Gb/s for the CS:S pre-load and only used one half of that. When Hl2 release approaches the plan is to increase it another 4Gb/s. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Feeling spent? Apply here for emergency plastic surgery. Virgincreditcard.com.au [1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2737??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Actually while I'm sure there will be disasters... I dont really agree that some how bandwidth is going to be the root cause of them. If they tier the rollouts, and dont auto enable the preload there should be minimal issues from a pure bandwidth perspective. It would of course be helpful I'm sure to release a base installer on distro sites of say 650mb compressed that either does a clean steam install and gets some base content installed on the client, or simply installs the base content to an existing install and they can pull the rest via steam. (probably make a big difference doing that since you lighten the load significantly by making the first gig basicly pre-loadable via distribution systems beyond steam, ie, p2p,ftp,http. No idea what thier plans actually are but I wouldn't worry about it to much as there's bound to be a disaster of one type or another reguardless. I'd me more concerned with the stability or problems of what's actually being distributed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling into a heap! I predict another disaster I know how they can alleviate the problem though, but I do not know how big a deal it is, but Valve definitely did not have a problem preloading Condition Zero on my computer and its updates without my consent, I cannot even turn off the fact that its going to do this, which shits me to no end. But in any case the way to help solve the bandwidth limitation problem would be to release the HL2 gcf file(s) to all the major file distributor sites and let people download it through there and pick up any pieces through the STEAM Content Servers, thats how it should be done until Valve have access to a STEAM Content Network with at least 100Gbps worth of Bandwith which even then probably wouln't be enough, but at least it would not be a total disaster! I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak
RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Gabe Wrote this the in HL2fallout Forum Steam's Bandwidth Zips @ 12:33 am pdt - steam updates - 22 comments For those of you worried about Steam's ability to handle massive file transfers, worry no more. A posting by Gabe Newell at the Half-Life 2 Fallout forums should put your minds at ease with regard to future updates and content pre-loads (including the Counter-Strike: Source BETA for CZ/ATI owners and the small Half-Life 2 pre-load, both coming up within the week). In terms of network bandwidth, we're currently running at 4 Gbps, and will boost to 7 Gbps when we start pre-loading. We have the option of increasing that to 14 Gbps with a phone call (admittedly a really expensive phone call). Since Half-Life 2 is ~2 GB (or 16 Gb) over the wire, we can serve up about a person/second with a complete copy of the game. These are idealized numbers - the real capacity planning numbers are quite a bit lower. Simply put, this means that the more bandwidth Steam has available, the faster a large group of people will be able to download content without slowing the rest of the service down Munra -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brandon Dumont - MWEB Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Good Idea Would be nice to mirrow it for my local dsl users as most of them have a 3gig internation cap. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling into a heap! I predict another disaster I know how they can alleviate the problem though, but I do not know how big a deal it is, but Valve definitely did not have a problem preloading Condition Zero on my computer and its updates without my consent, I cannot even turn off the fact that its going to do this, which shits me to no end. But in any case the way to help solve the bandwidth limitation problem would be to release the HL2 gcf file(s) to all the major file distributor sites and let people download it through there and pick up any pieces through the STEAM Content Servers, thats how it should be done until Valve have access to a STEAM Content Network with at least 100Gbps worth of Bandwith which even then probably wouln't be enough, but at least it would not be a total disaster! I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
As long as people keep there torrents open, the potential is huge, and grows with each download. - Original Message - From: p3ng0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) I don't know what you guys would think about this but this is a really good time to think about bittorrent as an option. It's perfect for distributing large files to a large audience. If many people chose to use BT, then people would have no problem at downloading hl2 at 300KB/s and up, plus, this would reduce valve's need for bandwidth more than half. - Original Message - From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? Original Message Follows From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:34:49 + [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Networking Maths for Dummies (Something you have to wonder about with Valve) Total Available Network Bandwidth for STEAM Content Servers: 8Gb/s Total Number of Counter-Strike Players 1,000,000 (Probably a lot higher if you consider actual STEAM Clients) Total Size of HL2 = A Few Gigabytes (Lets say 2GB's compressed just to be charitable, actually lets make it 1 Gigabyte to simplfy the maths) Lets say only 25% of the people who want HL2 try to download it, thats approximately 250,000 people ( I know that every man and his dog is waiting for HL2 from all the games on our service who would not touch Counter-Strike with a 10 foot pole, so any number I come up with is going to be worse!) To keep things simple 8Gbps = 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond 250,000 people trying to download through 1,000,000,000 Bytes Per Seccond total bandwidth = 4000 bytes per second per client or more or less 4KB/s (Yay) Time to take to download 1GigaByte at 4KiloBytes per Second = ?? 4KB/s will get you 240KB a minute so lets be charitable and say you are going to get 15MB per hour Thats means 360MB a day or just under 3 days to download 1 Gigabyte through STEAM content servers, and thats downloading 24 hours a day for the full amount of time. If they double the available bandwith then they halve the time for 250,000 users, but I'm making the assumption that its only going to be 250,000 users, who here thinks its only going to be 250,000 people trying to download HL2??? Who here thinks HL2 is only going to be 1 Gigabyte in Size? Who here thinks only 250,000 people will be wanting access to Half-Life 2? Can any of you see any of the problems I foreseen being resolved even if Valve double or triple or quaddruple their STEAM Content Servers Bandwidth?? Hell, Valve can barely keep up with with those people who have Condition Zero and ATI vouchers without their network falling into a heap! I predict another disaster I know how they can alleviate the problem though, but I do not know how big a deal it is, but Valve definitely did not have a problem preloading Condition Zero on my computer and its updates without my consent, I cannot even turn off the fact that its going to do this, which shits me to no end. But in any case the way to help solve the bandwidth limitation problem would be to release the HL2 gcf file(s) to all the major file distributor sites and let people download it through there and pick up any pieces through the STEAM Content Servers, thats how it should be done until Valve have access to a STEAM Content Network with at least 100Gbps worth of Bandwith which even then probably wouln't be enough, but at least it would not be a total disaster! I couldn't get in at all last night. If you think this is a circus, wait until HL2 comes out - it will be a friggin' zoo for weeks unless they actually do something different to ensure they have the bandwidth. I hate to be negative, but Valve has not yet been able to handle a major roll out without serious bandwidth problems. Bandwidth costs money - a lot of money - and Valve may be content to have us just wait our turn. They probably think we want it badly enough to put up with crap it takes to get updates during peak bandwidth periods. You do realize that they increased their bandwith to 8Gb/s for the CS:S pre-load and only used one half of that. When Hl2 release approaches the plan is to increase it another 4Gb/s. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
P2P is our friend. Put major modules on Bittorrent. Hell, I'll shut off my server for a week just to run Bittorrent to get and distrubute HL2 content. - Original Message - From: Whisper . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies) [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I should have also added that many ISP's will gladly mirror the file for you for their users, since it saves them downloading X Gigabytes worth of the same data across networks repeatedly. Hello Valve are you listening? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
You do realize that they increased their bandwith to 8Gb/s for the CS:S pre-load and only used one half of that. When Hl2 release approaches the plan is to increase it another 4Gb/s. Yeah - but it probalby won't be enough. In all fairness to Valve (wow, that is the second time I've said that tonight!) there is probably little they can do unless they want to spend about a bazillion bucks leasing bandwidth. HL2 is still a very high demand game, even after all the crap Steam has put us through. Any mediocre game would have been killed by Steam by now lol. So, anyhow, when HL2 comes out, there will simply be too many people that want it, and want it now. Unless they spend weeks trickling the content out to those that indicate they want it (I want it!), I'm expecting some rough times when HL2 is oficially released. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] 2 off the topic questions (apologies)
Actually false bans aren't really a problem in my opinion. Last time my friend was falsely banned he contacted valve through the steam website and they determined that he was indeed falsely banned, and removed it. And as far as I can remember, any mass false-banning that happened was always reversed, without any work of the clients being done. In all fairness to Valve, you don't hear as much about false bans these days. I attribute this to the maturity of VAC - IOW, they are getting their act together. I'm not saying that VAC is great or even good - just that it seems to be working better then it used to. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
