Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Saul Rennison]

You've got it all wrong. On the PC platform, you NEED communities that
are setup with servers/clans so then you can have regular servers,
play with other regulars and get to know new people. With matchmaking,
you get none of this.

Hence, why although to Valve's best efforts, L4D wasn't as successful
as it could have been.

Ofcourse Valve could run all their own servers but I could guarantee
you the number of players would drop immediately. Without a doubt.

On Monday, 16 May 2011, bottige...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Not to defend Valve, but they are in the business of making money.
>
> Why do they let the community test patches instead of testing it out
> themselves? Because they would have to hire testers which would
> increase their costs.
> http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/15/valve-makes-more-money-per-employee-than-google-or-apple/
>
> Another point of view. Consider that they have mentioned many times
> that they are experimenting with TF2. Does anyone really think that
> letting people run servers is now in Valve's best interest? If they
> knew how profitable the Mann Co store would be, my guess is that they
> would've locked down the servers when TF2 was made. They would then be
> able to sell reserved slots, custom names, etc... all without having
> to worry about people hacking Valve hats for free like they do now.
>
> Going by steam stats http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ at 20,000
> simultaneous players max, it would cost Valve less than 20,000 / 24 *
> 15 = 12.5k per month to run all the TF2 servers now, and that is just
> being conservative. This is a drop in the bucket compared to $585,000+
> that Valve earned in the first 2 weeks.
> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526851
>
> Server owners are inconsequential to the Valve business plan.
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Luki  wrote:
>> Two questions: where are guys which have to test game/updates before
>> release? And the beta... why you are adding to the game a thing, that is
>> broken even in the beta?
>> 16-05-2011 00:35 użytkownik "Vince Batchelor" 
>> napisał:
>>> Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then? That
>>> would have probably gotten complaints as well. This is a damned if
>>> they do, damned if they don't situation.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison 
>> wrote:
 Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.

 If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
 bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
 aware of, aren't being acted on.

 Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
 sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
 frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
 you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
 example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.

 On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>
> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.
>
> Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
> revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
> software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
> servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
> without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
> servers, more clients will buy your game.
> Kyle.
>
> Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock)
>> (remix) 

Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Saul Rennison]

You've got it all wrong. On the PC platform, you NEED communities that
are setup with servers/clans so then you can have regular servers,
play with other regulars and get to know new people. With matchmaking,
you get none of this.

Hence, why although to Valve's best efforts, L4D wasn't as successful
as it could have been.

Ofcourse Valve could run all their own servers but I could guarantee
you the number of players would drop immediately. Without a doubt.

On Monday, 16 May 2011, bottige...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Not to defend Valve, but they are in the business of making money.
>
> Why do they let the community test patches instead of testing it out
> themselves? Because they would have to hire testers which would
> increase their costs.
> http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/15/valve-makes-more-money-per-employee-than-google-or-apple/
>
> Another point of view. Consider that they have mentioned many times
> that they are experimenting with TF2. Does anyone really think that
> letting people run servers is now in Valve's best interest? If they
> knew how profitable the Mann Co store would be, my guess is that they
> would've locked down the servers when TF2 was made. They would then be
> able to sell reserved slots, custom names, etc... all without having
> to worry about people hacking Valve hats for free like they do now.
>
> Going by steam stats http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ at 20,000
> simultaneous players max, it would cost Valve less than 20,000 / 24 *
> 15 = 12.5k per month to run all the TF2 servers now, and that is just
> being conservative. This is a drop in the bucket compared to $585,000+
> that Valve earned in the first 2 weeks.
> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526851
>
> Server owners are inconsequential to the Valve business plan.
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Luki  wrote:
>> Two questions: where are guys which have to test game/updates before
>> release? And the beta... why you are adding to the game a thing, that is
>> broken even in the beta?
>> 16-05-2011 00:35 użytkownik "Vince Batchelor" 
>> napisał:
>>> Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then? That
>>> would have probably gotten complaints as well. This is a damned if
>>> they do, damned if they don't situation.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison 
>> wrote:
 Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.

 If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
 bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
 aware of, aren't being acted on.

 Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
 sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
 frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
 you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
 example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.

 On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>
> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.
>
> Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
> revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
> software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
> servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
> without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
> servers, more clients will buy your game.
> Kyle.
>
> Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock)
>> (remix) 

Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Kyle Sanderson]

If there really is no interest in testing work before pushing into
production. The pushes could at least be done on a Tuesday, or Monday
even if nothing is realized on the weekend. It also wouldn't be too
difficult to throw up a 'closed' beta program with Steam anyways. Have
a fixed set of testers to test for you, work through the game and find
regressions. If/When 3/4 sign off saying everything is fine, push away
to production. It just takes the least bit of effort to set this up.
This is obviously just a suggestion for what could be done. Ideally
the game should be tested in house, but we all know that this will not
happen.

Communities/Mods are what keeps the game(s) alive. If Valve really
insists on continuing to turn their back on the community, the games
will not last. Take a nice long look at L4D today. TF2 is dead to
everyone who I know, it's just idling/trading now. CS1.6 and CS:S are
still the most played games on Steam. It's no wonder why this is...
Kyle.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:04 PM, bottige...@gmail.com
 wrote:
> Not to defend Valve, but they are in the business of making money.
>
> Why do they let the community test patches instead of testing it out
> themselves? Because they would have to hire testers which would
> increase their costs.
> http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/15/valve-makes-more-money-per-employee-than-google-or-apple/
>
> Another point of view. Consider that they have mentioned many times
> that they are experimenting with TF2. Does anyone really think that
> letting people run servers is now in Valve's best interest? If they
> knew how profitable the Mann Co store would be, my guess is that they
> would've locked down the servers when TF2 was made. They would then be
> able to sell reserved slots, custom names, etc... all without having
> to worry about people hacking Valve hats for free like they do now.
>
> Going by steam stats http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ at 20,000
> simultaneous players max, it would cost Valve less than 20,000 / 24 *
> 15 = 12.5k per month to run all the TF2 servers now, and that is just
> being conservative. This is a drop in the bucket compared to $585,000+
> that Valve earned in the first 2 weeks.
> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526851
>
> Server owners are inconsequential to the Valve business plan.
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Luki  wrote:
>> Two questions: where are guys which have to test game/updates before
>> release? And the beta... why you are adding to the game a thing, that is
>> broken even in the beta?
>> 16-05-2011 00:35 użytkownik "Vince Batchelor" 
>> napisał:
>>> Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then? That
>>> would have probably gotten complaints as well. This is a damned if
>>> they do, damned if they don't situation.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison 
>> wrote:
 Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.

 If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
 bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
 aware of, aren't being acted on.

 Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
 sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
 frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
 you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
 example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.

 On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>
> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.

Re: [hlds_linux] How to set steam path correctly?

[ET(ET, Lin)]

Thank you, -steambin is working!
I can't find it in here:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Command_Line_Options
Can anyone update it?


Best Regards,

// ET.Lin


On 11 May 2011 06:05, Milton Ngan  wrote:

> There is an option -steambin that allows you to specify the full path to
> the binary.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
> hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Nilsson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:03 PM
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] How to set steam path correctly?
>
> Best option would be steam to fix this problem by moving default
> location on every game so standard setup always can find the binary.
>
> And also fix that they dont push an update on srcds_run afterwards for
> us that want to tweak and fix little ourselfes. Then we would not need
> config files or bash solutions.
>
> //Daniel
>
>
> ET(ET, Lin) skrev 2011-05-10 10:40:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm running HLDS server on linux, mainly TF2.
> > It tells me cannot find the path to steam, so I manually add the path in
> > "orangebox/srcds_run", set "STEAM="my/path"" inside"init() {   }".
> > But it seems to get overridden after an update.
> > Can anyone tell me what's the correct way to set it?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > // ET.Lin
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[bottige...@gmail.com]

Not to defend Valve, but they are in the business of making money.

Why do they let the community test patches instead of testing it out
themselves? Because they would have to hire testers which would
increase their costs.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/15/valve-makes-more-money-per-employee-than-google-or-apple/

Another point of view. Consider that they have mentioned many times
that they are experimenting with TF2. Does anyone really think that
letting people run servers is now in Valve's best interest? If they
knew how profitable the Mann Co store would be, my guess is that they
would've locked down the servers when TF2 was made. They would then be
able to sell reserved slots, custom names, etc... all without having
to worry about people hacking Valve hats for free like they do now.

Going by steam stats http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ at 20,000
simultaneous players max, it would cost Valve less than 20,000 / 24 *
15 = 12.5k per month to run all the TF2 servers now, and that is just
being conservative. This is a drop in the bucket compared to $585,000+
that Valve earned in the first 2 weeks.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526851

Server owners are inconsequential to the Valve business plan.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Luki  wrote:
> Two questions: where are guys which have to test game/updates before
> release? And the beta... why you are adding to the game a thing, that is
> broken even in the beta?
> 16-05-2011 00:35 użytkownik "Vince Batchelor" 
> napisał:
>> Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then? That
>> would have probably gotten complaints as well. This is a damned if
>> they do, damned if they don't situation.
>>
>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison 
> wrote:
>>> Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.
>>>
>>> If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
>>> bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
>>> aware of, aren't being acted on.
>>>
>>> Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
>>> sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
>>> frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
>>> you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
>>> example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
 Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
 go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
 until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
 acceptable time for anyone in North America.

 Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
 supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
 these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
 communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
 supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
 run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
 bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
 after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
 "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
 We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
 who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
 to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
 was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
 buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
 then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
 some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.

 Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
 revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
 software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
 servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
 without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
 servers, more clients will buy your game.
 Kyle.

 Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock)
> (remix) 

 On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Black V . 
> wrote:
> Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's
> a convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch
>
> -Original Message-
> From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
> Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released
>
> +1.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose 
> wrote:
>
>> If by "in time" you meant "during" I

Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Luki]

Two questions: where are guys which have to test game/updates before
release? And the beta... why you are adding to the game a thing, that is
broken even in the beta?
16-05-2011 00:35 użytkownik "Vince Batchelor" 
napisał:
> Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then? That
> would have probably gotten complaints as well. This is a damned if
> they do, damned if they don't situation.
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison 
wrote:
>> Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.
>>
>> If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
>> bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
>> aware of, aren't being acted on.
>>
>> Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
>> sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
>> frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
>> you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
>> example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.
>>
>> On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
>>> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
>>> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
>>> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
>>> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>>>
>>> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
>>> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
>>> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
>>> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
>>> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
>>> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
>>> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
>>> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
>>> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
>>> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
>>> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
>>> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
>>> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
>>> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
>>> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
>>> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.
>>>
>>> Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
>>> revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
>>> software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
>>> servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
>>> without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
>>> servers, more clients will buy your game.
>>> Kyle.
>>>
>>> Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock)
(remix) 
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Black V . 
wrote:
 Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's
a convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch

 -Original Message-
 From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

 +1.

 On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose 
wrote:

> If by "in time" you meant "during" I'd agree.
>
>
> On 5/13/2011 9:43 PM, Eli Witt wrote:
>
>> Right in time for our weekly community event!
>>
>> Thanks guys ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jason Ruymen<
jas...@valvesoftware.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available.  The
specific
>>> changes include:
>>>
>>> - Fixed a server crash caused by a mismatched items schema
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>>  ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>



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Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[DarthNinja]

The servers would have been crashing because of the PREVIOUS untested
update.
On May 15, 2011 6:35 PM, "Vince Batchelor"  wrote:
> Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then? That
> would have probably gotten complaints as well. This is a damned if
> they do, damned if they don't situation.
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison 
wrote:
>> Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.
>>
>> If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
>> bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
>> aware of, aren't being acted on.
>>
>> Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
>> sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
>> frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
>> you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
>> example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.
>>
>> On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
>>> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
>>> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
>>> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
>>> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>>>
>>> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
>>> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
>>> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
>>> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
>>> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
>>> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
>>> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
>>> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
>>> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
>>> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
>>> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
>>> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
>>> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
>>> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
>>> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
>>> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.
>>>
>>> Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
>>> revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
>>> software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
>>> servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
>>> without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
>>> servers, more clients will buy your game.
>>> Kyle.
>>>
>>> Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock)
(remix) 
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Black V . 
wrote:
 Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's
a convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch

 -Original Message-
 From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

 +1.

 On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose 
wrote:

> If by "in time" you meant "during" I'd agree.
>
>
> On 5/13/2011 9:43 PM, Eli Witt wrote:
>
>> Right in time for our weekly community event!
>>
>> Thanks guys ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jason Ruymen<
jas...@valvesoftware.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available.  The
specific
>>> changes include:
>>>
>>> - Fixed a server crash caused by a mismatched items schema
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>>  ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>



 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

>>>
>>> ___
>>

Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Vince Batchelor]

Would you rather they left the server crash in all weekend then?  That
would have probably gotten complaints as well.  This is a damned if
they do, damned if they don't situation.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Saul Rennison  wrote:
> Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.
>
> If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
> bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
> aware of, aren't being acted on.
>
> Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
> sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
> frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
> you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
> example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.
>
> On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
>> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
>> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
>> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
>> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>>
>> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
>> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
>> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
>> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
>> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
>> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
>> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
>> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
>> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
>> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
>> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
>> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
>> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
>> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
>> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
>> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.
>>
>> Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
>> revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
>> software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
>> servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
>> without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
>> servers, more clients will buy your game.
>> Kyle.
>>
>> Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock) 
>> (remix) 
>>
>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Black V .  wrote:
>>> Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's a 
>>> convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released
>>>
>>> +1.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose  wrote:
>>>
 If by "in time" you meant "during" I'd agree.


 On 5/13/2011 9:43 PM, Eli Witt wrote:

> Right in time for our weekly community event!
>
> Thanks guys ;)
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jason Ruymen >wrote:
>
>  A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available.  The specific
>> changes include:
>>
>> - Fixed a server crash caused by a mismatched items schema
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>  ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> - Saul
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit

Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Saul Rennison]

Why Valve aren't listening to you is unreal.

If I were you, I would forward this to Gabe immediately, because you
bring up extremely valid points that, although I'm sure Valve are
aware of, aren't being acted on.

Sending this straight to the top, presuming Gabe reads this, will make
sure strings are pulled and hopefully people fall into line because
frankly, it's their job to test updates, not the customers. Also as
you rightly said, bigger communities mean more revenue (see CSS for
example), but with less servers, there's a smaller community.

On Sunday, 15 May 2011, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
> Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
> go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
> until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
> acceptable time for anyone in North America.
>
> Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
> supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
> these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
> communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
> supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
> run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
> bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
> after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
> "It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
> We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
> who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
> to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
> was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
> buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
> then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
> some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.
>
> Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
> revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
> software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
> servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
> without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
> servers, more clients will buy your game.
> Kyle.
>
> Tor / Sufjan Stevens - Star of Wonder / None Shall Pass (f. Aesop Rock) 
> (remix) 
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Black V .  wrote:
>> Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's a 
>> convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
>> Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released
>>
>> +1.
>>
>> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose  wrote:
>>
>>> If by "in time" you meant "during" I'd agree.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/13/2011 9:43 PM, Eli Witt wrote:
>>>
 Right in time for our weekly community event!

 Thanks guys ;)



 On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jason Ruymen>>> >wrote:

  A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available.  The specific
> changes include:
>
> - Fixed a server crash caused by a mismatched items schema
>
> Jason
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
>  ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>

-- 

Thanks,
- Saul

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Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Kyle Sanderson]

Friday updates are just stupid. They work for no one, and when things
go wrong (ie 20% of the time for actual updates), they're not fixed
until Monday. They work on the West Coast in the States, it isn't an
acceptable time for anyone in North America.

Apparently competitive TF2 is cared about by Valve, and they're
supposedly doing everything they can to preserve it. However with
these unthoughtful, ill-thought out update dates, they're just killing
communities. No one has an infinite amount of money to continue
supporting servers for these games while the system requirements to
run them continue to increase. As an Example, Sandy Bridge should
bring CSS back to what we were at with Episode 1. This is a year later
after the 'new' engine came out. Sure, you get the fanboys that say
"It's not like you're forced to run servers", you're right, we're not.
We do it for fun, because we enjoy the games, because we have friends
who enjoy the games. Eventually the money train and patience is going
to run out, then we're going to be where we are for L4D (Mind you it
was setup for failure). On a side note, my client is still completely
buggered from the April 14th update. I cannot seem to play for more
then 20minutes without crashing out with an invalid pointer. While
some may find this acceptable, for match play, it simply isn't.

Dedicate some time for SRCDS. While focusing on clients brings in
revenue, without servers, you're just as hooped. Better server
software makes it easier for Communities to expand, and host larger
servers which is what players enjoy. It's a push and pull system,
without servers you wont get clients. If it's cheap to throw up
servers, more clients will buy your game.
Kyle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKXp17Udsjk&hd=1

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Black V .  wrote:
> Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's a 
> convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch
>
> -Original Message-
> From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
> Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released
>
> +1.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose  wrote:
>
>> If by "in time" you meant "during" I'd agree.
>>
>>
>> On 5/13/2011 9:43 PM, Eli Witt wrote:
>>
>>> Right in time for our weekly community event!
>>>
>>> Thanks guys ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jason Ruymen>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>  A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available.  The specific
 changes include:

 - Fixed a server crash caused by a mismatched items schema

 Jason


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

  ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>

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Re: [hlds_linux] TFBots causing libc crashes?

[bottige...@gmail.com]

I posted this way back on April 17th. Got the usual me-toos and no
comment from Valve.

I figured out very quickly that bots were causing it so I removed them.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:09 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I noticed this first sometime after the big "bug fix" update.
>
> Bots are working fine on Windows, naturally
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Nephyrin Zey wrote:
>
>> IE:
>>
>> *** glibc detected *** ./srcds_linux: malloc(): smallbin double linked list
>> corruption blah blah blah
>>
>> We have one token bot named Brutus that runs around and is much beloved,
>> but we've had to turn him off as servers are crashing twice a day with this.
>> IIRC this was a problem several patches ago but was fixed, only to return
>> with a vengence.
>>
>> - Neph
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
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> visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] TFBots causing libc crashes?

[1nsane]

Yes, I noticed this first sometime after the big "bug fix" update.

Bots are working fine on Windows, naturally

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Nephyrin Zey wrote:

> IE:
>
> *** glibc detected *** ./srcds_linux: malloc(): smallbin double linked list
> corruption blah blah blah
>
> We have one token bot named Brutus that runs around and is much beloved,
> but we've had to turn him off as servers are crashing twice a day with this.
> IIRC this was a problem several patches ago but was fixed, only to return
> with a vengence.
>
> - Neph
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

[Black V .]

Oh we'll get the tf2 team to mail you directly next time to see if it's a 
convenient time in your busy schedule for them to release a patch 

-Original Message-
From: alon.gub...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2011 10:54
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Released

+1.

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Ross Bemrose  wrote:

> If by "in time" you meant "during" I'd agree.
>
>
> On 5/13/2011 9:43 PM, Eli Witt wrote:
>
>> Right in time for our weekly community event!
>>
>> Thanks guys ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Jason Ruymen> >wrote:
>>
>>  A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available.  The specific
>>> changes include:
>>>
>>> - Fixed a server crash caused by a mismatched items schema
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>>  ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>



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