Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
This kind of discussion on the mail list only discourages VALVe to take any action on the issue or even engage on a civilized debate. Go chat elsewhere. And stop spamming the list. _pilger On 29 August 2014 15:02, dan wrote: > On 29/08/2014 17:22, Valentin G. wrote: > >> Please stop spamming the mailing list. >> > > No one is spamming the list. > > If you have nothing to add to the topic stop posting to it. > > If you don't want to read the thread google "email filtering" > > -- > Dan. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 29/08/2014 17:22, Valentin G. wrote: Please stop spamming the mailing list. No one is spamming the list. If you have nothing to add to the topic stop posting to it. If you don't want to read the thread google "email filtering" -- Dan. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Please stop spamming the mailing list. On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:10 PM, dan wrote: > On 29/08/2014 16:53, AnAkIn wrote: >> >> Dan, please stop spamming the mailing list. Thanks. > > > I'm not spamming the mailing list. > > I won't reply to you, if you don't reply to me. > > You won't stop me posting here with ad hominem and petty insults. > > -- > Dan > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 29/08/2014 16:53, AnAkIn wrote: Dan, please stop spamming the mailing list. Thanks. I'm not spamming the mailing list. I won't reply to you, if you don't reply to me. You won't stop me posting here with ad hominem and petty insults. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Dan, please stop spamming the mailing list. Thanks. 2014-08-29 17:34 GMT+02:00 dan : > On 29/08/2014 12:58, Erik-jan Riemers wrote: > >> Your right i'll stop. >> >> Arguing with a fool only proves there are two. >> > > Your moronic reply here shows that you are the fool Erik. > > Grow up. > > > -- > Dan > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 29/08/2014 12:58, Erik-jan Riemers wrote: Your right i'll stop. Arguing with a fool only proves there are two. Your moronic reply here shows that you are the fool Erik. Grow up. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Your right i'll stop. Arguing with a fool only proves there are two. 2014-08-29 12:24 GMT+02:00 dan : > On 29/08/2014 11:16, Erik-jan Riemers wrote: > >> Could we now just put a ribbon on top of it or take it off list? I dont >> mind some arguments now and then but its like reading a book these >> reply's.. and really dont add that much value to the list now since its >> more a 'pissing contest' >> > > I won't post replies to you if you don't post them to me Erik. > > It's as easy as that. > > > -- > Dan > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 29/08/2014 11:16, Erik-jan Riemers wrote: Could we now just put a ribbon on top of it or take it off list? I dont mind some arguments now and then but its like reading a book these reply's.. and really dont add that much value to the list now since its more a 'pissing contest' I won't post replies to you if you don't post them to me Erik. It's as easy as that. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 29/08/2014 11:00, Stephan Vandenborn wrote: I can't talk really about tf2 because I never play it, can't talk about the dynamis but in left 4 dead, a sourcemod/community server is way way much better than a valve server. Players with bad intentions can really take a left 4 dead game on valve servers hostage simply because it has zero admins present to immediately act, voting is slow and trolls will destroy teams in matter of seconds, start their childish voting spree and as publics in general are slow to really detect this troll's intention, it usually results in the game being screwed over, especially in versus. This is why I have a blacklist of known abusers and game destroyers. and I ONLY play left 4 dead on my OWN servers (or a friend's server that I manage). Sourcemod is great for giving you direct and instant control of your own server, fixes some engine bugs and allows me to actually manage it. I think with some of these games - where you need to start at the beginning , play a round, you can't really do it in an ad-hoc way. Same with dota 2 et al. These games suffer more from bad players (i.e not malicious, just people who have little experience of playing) than TF2 does. Then people get frustrated with bad players and the game as a whole gets a reputation for angry, frustrated people voting off each other and trash talking etc. Fortunately the game design of TF2 doesn't really introduce these problems. A few bad or disinterested players don't ruin the whole experience. That said, to some extent, I suppose MvM is like this but it's not really something that's interested me. So yeah, if I played L4D2 (I bought 2 copies of both 1 and 2, and have no idea why because I've barely played either) I'd generally organise the game. Which a lot of people do in TF2 by playing lobbies and so on. I've never bothered with comp, but that's what I would do if TF2 ever reached a stage where the pub community didn't have rounds that were at least a passing resemblance at going for the objectives. Put simply, it's obvious there are better ways yet of getting a good game than using sourcemod or having admins - neither of which I believe make that much difference to pub servers. But these things require far more time and organisation than I can be bothered to do. My son has played highlander comp and 6v6 and he spent at least as much time organising matches and servers and so on as he did playing the games. As a result, he probably got better rounds. So I'm no stranger to the idea that an organised group of people can create a better experience but that's not really what your typical 3rd party pub TF2 server is doing. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Could we now just put a ribbon on top of it or take it off list? I dont mind some arguments now and then but its like reading a book these reply's.. and really dont add that much value to the list now since its more a 'pissing contest' 2014-08-29 12:08 GMT+02:00 dan : > On 28/08/2014 22:23, Robert Paulson wrote: > >> Only one insulting anyone's intelligence is you. You think no one here is >> smart enough to figure out you are a failed server owner who got mad that >> no one joined your cheap and shoddy server from ThrustVPS. Now you waste >> your time flaming this mailing list as though everyone is dumb enough to >> believe all community servers are equally bad as yours were. >> > > Oh please, sing another tune. You didn't link to my steam account you > just made yourself look stupid and got the thread closed (yet again) > > Talk about the subject or STFU. > > I didn't say everyone is smart - you are certainly the most obvious > counter-example to that idea. > > However, suggesting that people are too dumb to join a server or uncheck > an option is ridiculous. > > Since you asked the reason Valve need to warn people about links is > not because people are stupid so much as it's because people are greedy. > > -- > Dan > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 28/08/2014 22:23, Robert Paulson wrote: Only one insulting anyone's intelligence is you. You think no one here is smart enough to figure out you are a failed server owner who got mad that no one joined your cheap and shoddy server from ThrustVPS. Now you waste your time flaming this mailing list as though everyone is dumb enough to believe all community servers are equally bad as yours were. Oh please, sing another tune. You didn't link to my steam account you just made yourself look stupid and got the thread closed (yet again) Talk about the subject or STFU. I didn't say everyone is smart - you are certainly the most obvious counter-example to that idea. However, suggesting that people are too dumb to join a server or uncheck an option is ridiculous. Since you asked the reason Valve need to warn people about links is not because people are stupid so much as it's because people are greedy. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
dan schreef op 29-8-2014 11:51: On 28/08/2014 21:22, Erik-jan Riemers wrote: Ever tried to call for an admin if a cheater is on a valve server? Or tons of screaming kids? I've voted off a handful of cheaters without issue. As I've said before on this list, there really are not that many cheating in TF2 on the servers I play on. That's especially the case with Valve's servers. Or maybe they are so bad at cheating it doesn't make a difference? If anything is different about the present pub TF2 player base it's that they under perform rather than over perform because of cheats. The other side is, Valve have a ton of servers, a cheat can only play on one of them even if the voting option doesn't work. TBH I can't think of many instances where I've been on a server with admins where the admin has come and kicked a cheat. Most of the time admins don't play on the server. If they arrive via some !report command, they'll ask you to post proof to some forum (even if the cheat is still there and it's obvious) This is all a waste of my time. Put simply if there's a cheat on your server I'll just leave and join another server. This is no different to Valves. But as I say cheaters are a rarity. If tons of people cheated in TF2 I would stop playing it. I wouldn't join your server. If you get a lot of cheaters I'd suggest that's probably because you do have admins rather than because you don't. Especially if you get this thing where cheaters are creating account after account to wind you up. There's no on Valve's servers to wind up. No one to "impress" by bypassing a ban. Put simply, if you are getting trolled by cheaters etc, that's probably because you've created an environment for trolls to flourish and for kids to get some attention they crave via negative behaviour. Valve servers are, in that sense, lonely. The guys that want attention aren't going to find it there. As for "screaming kids" these really don't exist in the UK IME. I think it's mainly a cultural thing. Maybe an xbox thing here though. In either case people are easy to mute via the client. So "screaming kids" is a complete non-issue. There certainly aren't "tons" of them - there can only be 23 other people at a time. Most of them say nothing. Since no one in TF2 pub servers ever says anything useful on the mic anyway (and since Americans never STFU for 5 minutes and seem to talk inane nonsense all the time) I usually just disable it completely. As you probably appreciate too, there are 200 different languages here, so much of the chatter isn't in English and many of the people wouldn't understand me if I said anything to them anyway. You know, if you're playing 6v6 comp you use mumble or whatever so, no one really has any need for Valve's in game talk thing. It's a completely useless feature, just uncheck the check box and, if the kids in your country scream, let them scream. Same with sprays. If you're going to suggest people need admins to get rid of naughty people who post rude pictures. Nope. Don't have sprays enabled either. What about other "rules"? Well, most of those rules only exist because you have admins and they feel some kind of egotistical need to believe they are in charge of the people on the server. So, in short, the problems you presented don't really exist and I think my solution (join a different server) works more efficiently than waiting for an admin / recording demos / posting to forums etc. By the time I've done that, the round is ruined anyway. The biggest problem overall in TF2 is finding a decent round i.e a map you want to play with 2 teams that want to play the objectives. No server owner or admin has solved this problem. Valve, imo, often do things to make this worse. This requires constant hopping from server to server - so you can see, hopping for a cheat is really not adding to the burden because poor and disinterested players are significantly more prevalent than cheats. What I do to join a server is, pick <50 ping, 24 max players, pick the map I want, get it to filter out empty and full servers, and order the list by player count. At that point I get a big list of Valve servers saying 23/24 at the top of the list, and I just join them one at a time working my way down until I find a decent game. When the round ends, I just hit 'refresh' and do the same. Rinse and repeat until I've had enough and hit quit. Occasionally I might join a 3rd party server that appears in the list, but not because they have admins on them. I can't talk really about tf2 because I never play it, can't talk about the dynamis but in left 4 dead, a sourcemod/community server is way way much better than a valve server. Players with bad intentions can really take a left 4 dead game on valve servers hostage simply because it has zero admins present to immediately act, voting is slow and trolls will destroy teams in matter of seconds, start their childish voting spree and as publics in genera
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 28/08/2014 21:22, Erik-jan Riemers wrote: Ever tried to call for an admin if a cheater is on a valve server? Or tons of screaming kids? I've voted off a handful of cheaters without issue. As I've said before on this list, there really are not that many cheating in TF2 on the servers I play on. That's especially the case with Valve's servers. Or maybe they are so bad at cheating it doesn't make a difference? If anything is different about the present pub TF2 player base it's that they under perform rather than over perform because of cheats. The other side is, Valve have a ton of servers, a cheat can only play on one of them even if the voting option doesn't work. TBH I can't think of many instances where I've been on a server with admins where the admin has come and kicked a cheat. Most of the time admins don't play on the server. If they arrive via some !report command, they'll ask you to post proof to some forum (even if the cheat is still there and it's obvious) This is all a waste of my time. Put simply if there's a cheat on your server I'll just leave and join another server. This is no different to Valves. But as I say cheaters are a rarity. If tons of people cheated in TF2 I would stop playing it. I wouldn't join your server. If you get a lot of cheaters I'd suggest that's probably because you do have admins rather than because you don't. Especially if you get this thing where cheaters are creating account after account to wind you up. There's no on Valve's servers to wind up. No one to "impress" by bypassing a ban. Put simply, if you are getting trolled by cheaters etc, that's probably because you've created an environment for trolls to flourish and for kids to get some attention they crave via negative behaviour. Valve servers are, in that sense, lonely. The guys that want attention aren't going to find it there. As for "screaming kids" these really don't exist in the UK IME. I think it's mainly a cultural thing. Maybe an xbox thing here though. In either case people are easy to mute via the client. So "screaming kids" is a complete non-issue. There certainly aren't "tons" of them - there can only be 23 other people at a time. Most of them say nothing. Since no one in TF2 pub servers ever says anything useful on the mic anyway (and since Americans never STFU for 5 minutes and seem to talk inane nonsense all the time) I usually just disable it completely. As you probably appreciate too, there are 200 different languages here, so much of the chatter isn't in English and many of the people wouldn't understand me if I said anything to them anyway. You know, if you're playing 6v6 comp you use mumble or whatever so, no one really has any need for Valve's in game talk thing. It's a completely useless feature, just uncheck the check box and, if the kids in your country scream, let them scream. Same with sprays. If you're going to suggest people need admins to get rid of naughty people who post rude pictures. Nope. Don't have sprays enabled either. What about other "rules"? Well, most of those rules only exist because you have admins and they feel some kind of egotistical need to believe they are in charge of the people on the server. So, in short, the problems you presented don't really exist and I think my solution (join a different server) works more efficiently than waiting for an admin / recording demos / posting to forums etc. By the time I've done that, the round is ruined anyway. The biggest problem overall in TF2 is finding a decent round i.e a map you want to play with 2 teams that want to play the objectives. No server owner or admin has solved this problem. Valve, imo, often do things to make this worse. This requires constant hopping from server to server - so you can see, hopping for a cheat is really not adding to the burden because poor and disinterested players are significantly more prevalent than cheats. What I do to join a server is, pick <50 ping, 24 max players, pick the map I want, get it to filter out empty and full servers, and order the list by player count. At that point I get a big list of Valve servers saying 23/24 at the top of the list, and I just join them one at a time working my way down until I find a decent game. When the round ends, I just hit 'refresh' and do the same. Rinse and repeat until I've had enough and hit quit. Occasionally I might join a 3rd party server that appears in the list, but not because they have admins on them. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 28/08/2014 21:07, Alexander Corn wrote: You have pretty clearly never joined a Valve server. As a matter of fact, didn't you admit that you don't even play TF2 like a few months ago? I didn't admit anything. Though quite why you might think that playing or not playing a game is something you need to "admit to" is beyond me. How much I have or haven't played TF2 really isn't the topic and really doesn't improve your arguments at all. It just makes you look petty and foolish. Especially when you're wrong. If you want to have a pop, at least find some "matters of fact" first. People are playing on Valve's servers. You're not more intelligent than they are. Get over it. Your arguments are poor when you're talking about quickplay, but they quickly become stupid when you talk about me instead. FWIW, I've played thousands of hours of TF2, and I still play at least 25+ hours a fortnight. Usually more but in the summer I'm cycling 800-1000km a month. I've got a strange grenade launcher with over 70k kills. Anything else you'd like to know about me that you think will make a difference to Valve's servers or quickplay just ask, especially if you feel it's relevant or required to have an opinion. The vast majority of the time I play TF2 is on Valve's servers although I use skial, lotusclan, multiplay and a few other European / UK servers they are generally not configured to allow objective-based play whereas Valve's servers are configured to play TF2. "You join, play a few rounds, the timer ends, one team wins" The only downside is this rather silly idea people had about scrambling the teams - really shows a poor understanding of random numbers if you believe shuffling players will create a balanced game (cf why apple had to make their ipods less random when shuffling) and it's completely ridiculous to do that half way through a game leaving the score at 2-0. So yeah, if you wanted to create a better server than Valves, that's one thing you could do. Remove and configure out all scrambling options. If the people on Valve's server are bad in anyway, e.g full of people playing spy/sniper or turtling engies or whatever else, I just join another one. There are loads of them. It works. You have to hop a few servers to find a round, but you have to do that with every server - and the cool thing about Valve's servers is you know what you are getting. Or more importantly you know what you are not getting. It's a complete fallacy to state Valve's servers are awful. For one thing their servers don't appear to be static so perhaps your experience is out of date. When they first introduced them in Europe they had them in frankfurt and a couple of other European cities. Since then they appear to have moved a couple of times based on their names. At the moment I think they are in Luxembourg. Technically they are fine. I get low pings and so far as I can see most of the others players connecting do. I'm sure if you have some genuine technical issues you can tell them via this list and they would sort it. There is, as I said, an issue where at certain times of the day you get a lot of overseas people connecting. To me the network code, however much it's supposed to negate this, it doesn't really. Either Valve could do with more servers in these areas or I'd suggest, a better algorithm that doesn't connect people so they have 100+ pings (at the very least not the extremes you see where people have 200-300 ping) So, in summary, nope, you won't kid the player base that they shouldn't be connecting to Valve's servers because they are technically flawed. You'll need something that's not demonstrably false. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Only one insulting anyone's intelligence is you. You think no one here is smart enough to figure out you are a failed server owner who got mad that no one joined your cheap and shoddy server from ThrustVPS. Now you waste your time flaming this mailing list as though everyone is dumb enough to believe all community servers are equally bad as yours were. For anyone that missed it. https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg75063.html https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg75067.html Also explain why every Steam chat box says "Never tell your password to anyone" and "the URL you have clicked on is not an official Steam website" if Valve thinks people are really that smart? Just stop pretending you are fighting for the average player against the bad community owners. The only thing you have in common with them at this point is their level of intelligence. You don't even play the game anymore. Your other claim that official servers are the best has been debunked over and over again by the simple observation that none of them were in the gametracker top 200 before the quickplay change. On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:41 PM, dan wrote: > On 28/08/2014 19:22, Alexander Corn wrote: > >> Dan, have you ever listened to developer commentary in any video game that >> was ever made? Time and time again, developers need to create "hints" to >> point players in the right direction. Ever played Portal? Do you remember >> how in the earlier levels that teach you how to "fling", the spot on the >> wall where you're supposed to place a portal is on a protruding panel? >> > > This is not the same as trying to suggest that you need training to use > the game itself. > > Perhaps I should have said "use the game" rather than "play" to avoid the > confusion. > > Sheesh, my son was playing games and exploring the options before he was > in school. The > idea about a "checkbox" or a gui or menu item is not something unique to > TF2 - > and this is why it's pretty trivial for anyone to explore these options > (as they clearly do) > > What you are trying to suggest here is that opening the box to take out a > rubik's cube is like > solving a rubik's cube. Therefore people won't play with it because they > can't figure out how to open the box and that is, you believe, the reason > the people are playing > with a different puzzle. I'm saying if you can open a box then anyone can > - and only the most > deluded on this list (and valve if they believe the nonsense in their > employee handbook) think they are special or > gifted in some way. Do you think that? Do you think that joining a server > before quickplay was added was some kind of amazing > thing you did? > > I'm saying, meh, maybe they like the other puzzle and that's why they > aren't bothering to take the rubik's cube out > these days. Although when you actually look at the server list in TF2 > there are clearly myriad people who do take it out > they must, and I know from what my family do that the idea everyone is > using qp is flawed. > > As I've said on the list many times, there's no evidence that PC gamers > don't find and manipulate > game options thoroughly. e.g Open the discussion on any PC game where > options are limited and see the tears and wailing of PC gamers > complaining about a lack of graphical options or whatever else. > > The other thing you can do is just look at the history of TF2. No one got > "training" before it appeared. > > If you have any intelligence you'd come up with (and you've had a few > years to do this now) > a better argument to suggest to Valve why they should put people on your > server. Forget for one moment the end goal - just read your > arguments and imagine someone was putting them to you. Would you really > take anyone seriously > who suggested people wouldn't or couldn't uncheck an option box and that > having the box checked was "boo hoo unfair"? > > C'mon, you insult Valve's intelligence with these ridiculous arguments - > not the least because they are obviously fallacious, > years old and haven't worked. Who was it that said insanity is repeating > the same thing over and over and expecting different results. > > As for Valve's umbrellas "melting" I think you're kidding yourself. See in > my previous message about the delusion > of those with empty servers deciding their servers are better. > > -- > Dan. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Ever tried to call for an admin if a cheater is on a valve server? Or tons of screaming kids? Reasons why i avoid valve servers and the people that join ours. And what McKay says, people are lazy and a lot are just dumb too.. its a mix. 2014-08-28 22:07 GMT+02:00 Alexander Corn : > You have pretty clearly never joined a Valve server. As a matter of fact, > didn't you admit that you don't even play TF2 like a few months ago? > > Valve servers are objectively *awful*. As soon as any kind of strain is put > on them, they just collapse. > > Before Quickplay appeared, nobody needed "training". Nobody needs > "training" now. Why are you incapable of understanding that a large button > with an attractive label draws more attention than a smaller button with an > unclear label? > > Joining a server with the server browser is not difficult. Joining a server > with Quickplay just requires less clicks. People generally go the way of > less clicks. That's all there is to it. It's not a question of > intelligence, it's a question of laziness. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:41 PM, dan wrote: > > > On 28/08/2014 19:22, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > >> Dan, have you ever listened to developer commentary in any video game > that > >> was ever made? Time and time again, developers need to create "hints" to > >> point players in the right direction. Ever played Portal? Do you > remember > >> how in the earlier levels that teach you how to "fling", the spot on the > >> wall where you're supposed to place a portal is on a protruding panel? > >> > > > > This is not the same as trying to suggest that you need training to use > > the game itself. > > > > Perhaps I should have said "use the game" rather than "play" to avoid the > > confusion. > > > > Sheesh, my son was playing games and exploring the options before he was > > in school. The > > idea about a "checkbox" or a gui or menu item is not something unique to > > TF2 - > > and this is why it's pretty trivial for anyone to explore these options > > (as they clearly do) > > > > What you are trying to suggest here is that opening the box to take out a > > rubik's cube is like > > solving a rubik's cube. Therefore people won't play with it because they > > can't figure out how to open the box and that is, you believe, the reason > > the people are playing > > with a different puzzle. I'm saying if you can open a box then anyone can > > - and only the most > > deluded on this list (and valve if they believe the nonsense in their > > employee handbook) think they are special or > > gifted in some way. Do you think that? Do you think that joining a server > > before quickplay was added was some kind of amazing > > thing you did? > > > > I'm saying, meh, maybe they like the other puzzle and that's why they > > aren't bothering to take the rubik's cube out > > these days. Although when you actually look at the server list in TF2 > > there are clearly myriad people who do take it out > > they must, and I know from what my family do that the idea everyone is > > using qp is flawed. > > > > As I've said on the list many times, there's no evidence that PC gamers > > don't find and manipulate > > game options thoroughly. e.g Open the discussion on any PC game where > > options are limited and see the tears and wailing of PC gamers > > complaining about a lack of graphical options or whatever else. > > > > The other thing you can do is just look at the history of TF2. No one > got > > "training" before it appeared. > > > > If you have any intelligence you'd come up with (and you've had a few > > years to do this now) > > a better argument to suggest to Valve why they should put people on your > > server. Forget for one moment the end goal - just read your > > arguments and imagine someone was putting them to you. Would you really > > take anyone seriously > > who suggested people wouldn't or couldn't uncheck an option box and that > > having the box checked was "boo hoo unfair"? > > > > C'mon, you insult Valve's intelligence with these ridiculous arguments - > > not the least because they are obviously fallacious, > > years old and haven't worked. Who was it that said insanity is repeating > > the same thing over and over and expecting different results. > > > > As for Valve's umbrellas "melting" I think you're kidding yourself. See > in > > my previous message about the delusion > > of those with empty servers deciding their servers are better. > > > > -- > > Dan. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsub
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
You have pretty clearly never joined a Valve server. As a matter of fact, didn't you admit that you don't even play TF2 like a few months ago? Valve servers are objectively *awful*. As soon as any kind of strain is put on them, they just collapse. Before Quickplay appeared, nobody needed "training". Nobody needs "training" now. Why are you incapable of understanding that a large button with an attractive label draws more attention than a smaller button with an unclear label? Joining a server with the server browser is not difficult. Joining a server with Quickplay just requires less clicks. People generally go the way of less clicks. That's all there is to it. It's not a question of intelligence, it's a question of laziness. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:41 PM, dan wrote: > On 28/08/2014 19:22, Alexander Corn wrote: > >> Dan, have you ever listened to developer commentary in any video game that >> was ever made? Time and time again, developers need to create "hints" to >> point players in the right direction. Ever played Portal? Do you remember >> how in the earlier levels that teach you how to "fling", the spot on the >> wall where you're supposed to place a portal is on a protruding panel? >> > > This is not the same as trying to suggest that you need training to use > the game itself. > > Perhaps I should have said "use the game" rather than "play" to avoid the > confusion. > > Sheesh, my son was playing games and exploring the options before he was > in school. The > idea about a "checkbox" or a gui or menu item is not something unique to > TF2 - > and this is why it's pretty trivial for anyone to explore these options > (as they clearly do) > > What you are trying to suggest here is that opening the box to take out a > rubik's cube is like > solving a rubik's cube. Therefore people won't play with it because they > can't figure out how to open the box and that is, you believe, the reason > the people are playing > with a different puzzle. I'm saying if you can open a box then anyone can > - and only the most > deluded on this list (and valve if they believe the nonsense in their > employee handbook) think they are special or > gifted in some way. Do you think that? Do you think that joining a server > before quickplay was added was some kind of amazing > thing you did? > > I'm saying, meh, maybe they like the other puzzle and that's why they > aren't bothering to take the rubik's cube out > these days. Although when you actually look at the server list in TF2 > there are clearly myriad people who do take it out > they must, and I know from what my family do that the idea everyone is > using qp is flawed. > > As I've said on the list many times, there's no evidence that PC gamers > don't find and manipulate > game options thoroughly. e.g Open the discussion on any PC game where > options are limited and see the tears and wailing of PC gamers > complaining about a lack of graphical options or whatever else. > > The other thing you can do is just look at the history of TF2. No one got > "training" before it appeared. > > If you have any intelligence you'd come up with (and you've had a few > years to do this now) > a better argument to suggest to Valve why they should put people on your > server. Forget for one moment the end goal - just read your > arguments and imagine someone was putting them to you. Would you really > take anyone seriously > who suggested people wouldn't or couldn't uncheck an option box and that > having the box checked was "boo hoo unfair"? > > C'mon, you insult Valve's intelligence with these ridiculous arguments - > not the least because they are obviously fallacious, > years old and haven't worked. Who was it that said insanity is repeating > the same thing over and over and expecting different results. > > As for Valve's umbrellas "melting" I think you're kidding yourself. See in > my previous message about the delusion > of those with empty servers deciding their servers are better. > > -- > Dan. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 28/08/2014 19:22, Alexander Corn wrote: Dan, have you ever listened to developer commentary in any video game that was ever made? Time and time again, developers need to create "hints" to point players in the right direction. Ever played Portal? Do you remember how in the earlier levels that teach you how to "fling", the spot on the wall where you're supposed to place a portal is on a protruding panel? This is not the same as trying to suggest that you need training to use the game itself. Perhaps I should have said "use the game" rather than "play" to avoid the confusion. Sheesh, my son was playing games and exploring the options before he was in school. The idea about a "checkbox" or a gui or menu item is not something unique to TF2 - and this is why it's pretty trivial for anyone to explore these options (as they clearly do) What you are trying to suggest here is that opening the box to take out a rubik's cube is like solving a rubik's cube. Therefore people won't play with it because they can't figure out how to open the box and that is, you believe, the reason the people are playing with a different puzzle. I'm saying if you can open a box then anyone can - and only the most deluded on this list (and valve if they believe the nonsense in their employee handbook) think they are special or gifted in some way. Do you think that? Do you think that joining a server before quickplay was added was some kind of amazing thing you did? I'm saying, meh, maybe they like the other puzzle and that's why they aren't bothering to take the rubik's cube out these days. Although when you actually look at the server list in TF2 there are clearly myriad people who do take it out they must, and I know from what my family do that the idea everyone is using qp is flawed. As I've said on the list many times, there's no evidence that PC gamers don't find and manipulate game options thoroughly. e.g Open the discussion on any PC game where options are limited and see the tears and wailing of PC gamers complaining about a lack of graphical options or whatever else. The other thing you can do is just look at the history of TF2. No one got "training" before it appeared. If you have any intelligence you'd come up with (and you've had a few years to do this now) a better argument to suggest to Valve why they should put people on your server. Forget for one moment the end goal - just read your arguments and imagine someone was putting them to you. Would you really take anyone seriously who suggested people wouldn't or couldn't uncheck an option box and that having the box checked was "boo hoo unfair"? C'mon, you insult Valve's intelligence with these ridiculous arguments - not the least because they are obviously fallacious, years old and haven't worked. Who was it that said insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. As for Valve's umbrellas "melting" I think you're kidding yourself. See in my previous message about the delusion of those with empty servers deciding their servers are better. -- Dan. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Dan, have you ever listened to developer commentary in any video game that was ever made? Time and time again, developers need to create "hints" to point players in the right direction. Ever played Portal? Do you remember how in the earlier levels that teach you how to "fling", the spot on the wall where you're supposed to place a portal is on a protruding panel? That was an intentional design decision from the developers to draw the player's attention. It's no different in menu UIs. The fact that the Quickplay button is so much larger and more prominent than the Servers button is no accident. Many players don't want to mess around in menus, they just want to play the game. They'll just accept the Quickplay defaults and join a Valve server, even if they would have a better experience in a community server. Your umbrella analogy is terrible. The differences between Valve servers and community servers go beyond an aesthetic change like color. The performance on Valve servers regularly suffers. Cheaters and griefers swarm to Valve servers for their lack of moderation and sub-par votekick system. To improve on your umbrella analogy, Valve servers are like umbrellas that melt after being exposed to water for 10 minutes. The umbrellas that I'm selling don't melt. We're selling our umbrellas for the same price, but the owner of the shop that's selling the umbrellas has decided to stock Valve umbrellas on the shelves exclusively. There's a small sign on the wall that says that more umbrellas are available in the back room, but most people don't see it. They just grab a Valve umbrella and buy it, despite the fact that they could get a better-quality umbrella for the same price. We want the shop owner to stock all umbrellas on the shelves, not just their sub-par umbrellas. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:51 AM, dan wrote: > On 27/08/2014 16:21, Ilya Larin wrote: > >> dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers are >> full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they are >> bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look for a >> good server. >> > > This wasn't Frank's argument. Frank is upset because he thinks Valve owe > him something. > > It wasn't really about quickplay - it was about him wanting valve to get > rid of their servers. > > He believes he's responsible for some kind of success or existence of TF2. > It's a level > of narcissism and egomania often witnessed in beta testers and, it seems, > some server owners. > > He believes that others servers, Valve's in particular, should be removed > so that people > join his server. Which, he very humbly and modestly suggests is better > than theirs. > > At best I think Valve should recognise the social responsibility they have > for creating Frank's > issues and offer the resources to help him recover. Either that or they > should pay for a 10' statue > of him with the Latin inscription "Frank TF2um Rex" and place it in > Valve's foyer so the > TF2 team can all gaze in awe and wonder and kiss its feet on the way into > work each morning :D > > The argument presented is that people cannot join a server. These > arguments have been typed in before. This time may well not have > explicitly said "We think players are too dumb to join a server or change > a default" - but, from the past, less guarded arguments, it's what a few > seem to believe to be true. > > Certainly there is no valid alternative reason given. > > Besides, all other arguments like "people aren't changing the defaults" > "People > don't use the server browser" etc, are just tough. If people > are playing on official servers and not yours and you recognise that they > are intelligent enough to make a choice, then it's tough isn't it? > > Conversely if your argument requires people to be too ignorant to join > a server then it's equally fallacious. > > Either way, there's no valid argument. If anyone > wants to join your server they can. > > The next argument used is usually that the game is dying - and > in quickplay terms it goes something like, "players will eventually > hate TF2 because Valve's servers don't have adverts on them or > some other plugin, but they are too ignorant, dumb or lazy to find an > alternative, > so they just stop playing the game never finding or realising how great > the game is if you > play on a different server" > > This argument is nonsense of course. Proven simply by the fact that > this announcement of the imminent death of TF2 at Valve's hands, has come > and gone > multiple times. > > But really this discussion was about someone saying "Valve, get rid of > your servers" > not about quickplay. We've seen all the quickplay arguments, indeed > valve added a bunch of options to let them connect to their servers > and now they are upset about what the defaults are. They really have such > a low opinion of people that they don't even think > gamers have the nous to mak
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 27/08/2014 16:21, Ilya Larin wrote: dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers are full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they are bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look for a good server. This wasn't Frank's argument. Frank is upset because he thinks Valve owe him something. It wasn't really about quickplay - it was about him wanting valve to get rid of their servers. He believes he's responsible for some kind of success or existence of TF2. It's a level of narcissism and egomania often witnessed in beta testers and, it seems, some server owners. He believes that others servers, Valve's in particular, should be removed so that people join his server. Which, he very humbly and modestly suggests is better than theirs. At best I think Valve should recognise the social responsibility they have for creating Frank's issues and offer the resources to help him recover. Either that or they should pay for a 10' statue of him with the Latin inscription "Frank TF2um Rex" and place it in Valve's foyer so the TF2 team can all gaze in awe and wonder and kiss its feet on the way into work each morning :D The argument presented is that people cannot join a server. These arguments have been typed in before. This time may well not have explicitly said "We think players are too dumb to join a server or change a default" - but, from the past, less guarded arguments, it's what a few seem to believe to be true. Certainly there is no valid alternative reason given. Besides, all other arguments like "people aren't changing the defaults" "People don't use the server browser" etc, are just tough. If people are playing on official servers and not yours and you recognise that they are intelligent enough to make a choice, then it's tough isn't it? Conversely if your argument requires people to be too ignorant to join a server then it's equally fallacious. Either way, there's no valid argument. If anyone wants to join your server they can. The next argument used is usually that the game is dying - and in quickplay terms it goes something like, "players will eventually hate TF2 because Valve's servers don't have adverts on them or some other plugin, but they are too ignorant, dumb or lazy to find an alternative, so they just stop playing the game never finding or realising how great the game is if you play on a different server" This argument is nonsense of course. Proven simply by the fact that this announcement of the imminent death of TF2 at Valve's hands, has come and gone multiple times. But really this discussion was about someone saying "Valve, get rid of your servers" not about quickplay. We've seen all the quickplay arguments, indeed valve added a bunch of options to let them connect to their servers and now they are upset about what the defaults are. They really have such a low opinion of people that they don't even think gamers have the nous to make a decision about a checkbox. The odd thing is, when a niche group of self-serving and self-interested people get together they often delude themselves that their collective self-serving and self-interested opinions form some kind of consensus. They often wonder, on this very group, since they all agree on stuff why doesn't Valve change it? But, you know, the main thing that makes a server good or bad is the people that play on it. Beyond a few, small, technical issues that are largely either right or not, and which you cannot really use to differentiate yourself from any other server. You have to work to get people on a server. It's been said before but a server that gets its players via quickplay is not a "community" - if you want a "community" - as ridiculous as that notion is, you have to build and create it. The conflict here in the past has been where server owners have decided that quickplay players owe them something because it's their server. Whether that's donations, watching adverts, obeying silly rules etc. Valve, quite rightly realise that someone clicking "quickplay" isn't interested in your server or anyone's server. They aren't interested in anyone's community or anyone's bank balance. Hence they had to add or remove a bunch of stuff to stop server owners ruining players experience by exploiting them. Then they cry "Whaa whaa, we can't make money, it's not fair" - and a few get upset because features are disappearing. Usually features that don't really matter. That's a disease Valve staffers suffer from just as much as plugin writers. Whoever thinks adding browsers or music players into game clients matters really needs to be given a difficult programming problem to challenge them a bit. If you want a community. Build a community. Put the work in. And then exploit that community that you built yourself if you must. But, if Valve was sending hundreds of people to your server for a while via quickplay that wasn't you
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
juego cs1.6 SERVER ONLINE 24/7 Name: lUPl xtreme solder .gt Connection Info: 74.91.127.210:27019 2014-08-27 15:38 GMT-06:00 pwn : > We were punished in a similar fashion 3 years before on my campus, where > the whole building of 2000 students were stripped from the internet for a > day because of a single person that disobeyed the rules - it's a shitty > approach but sadly we can't do anything against it. > > And I am aware of that elitepowered stuff, but more than the actual issue, > it's the repeated 20+ mail long threads that occurs every time someone just > mistakenly writes the quickplay word. > Also, you can't guarantee that people just wont continue disobeying the > rules - even now, with a little effort you can find tons of servers that > should not be present in the quickplay because they ignore the rules stated > by valve - yet noone seems to give a f*** about it (even after I tried > report those servers, they are still there) :) > > Dňa 27. 8. 2014 23:21 Robert Paulson wrote / napÃsal(a): > > You realize that was back in November when elitepowered was using fake >> players even when Valve had been notified about them months before? >> >> Punishing all community servers for this is like deleting the Valve >> workshop just because one person used copyrighted art. >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, pwn wrote: >> >> Just to clarify.. >>> I never intended to sound like someone who promotes valve's quickplay >>> decision as a perfect, nor the servers superior to community ones (well, >>> at >>> least a bunch of them), but looking on it as players that prefer vanilla >>> experience then yeah, valve's ones are the most comfortable to hop in. >>> (STAR_'s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxEvEwJt7g video may be a >>> hyped >>> up a little bit, but still got some basic sane points) >>> >>> On the other hand, eric's answer (iirc) to look into quickplay and shift >>> the traffic slowly back to community servers in the next months after >>> gathering enough feedback and then never giving us any further answer to >>> it, giving a middle-finger to all modded servers that provide different >>> game experience (dodgeball, etc etc) by the strict quickplay rules, >>> ignoring our request to notify with some kind of pop-up of the >>> possibility >>> to change to community servers after xy hourplay is a different topic and >>> feels like a big f**k you from valve, but whining about it every week on >>> the mailing list where we practically just repeat ourselves, is not fun >>> anymore; especially when the whining came from serverowners who were the >>> reason those strict changes were made (at least in the mails shortly >>> after >>> the change). >>> >>> >>> Dňa 27. 8. 2014 21:47 Paul wrote / napÃsal(a): >>> >>> That and the fact that most of the time they seem to not respond to >>> bugs >>> or topics such as Quickplay. On 27 August 2014 20:39, Robert Paulson wrote: Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in > the > top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they > would > have been up there in equal numbers. > > Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large > number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue > all > you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without > moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the > dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. > > I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing > against > community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 > years > and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been > banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep > their > spam-haven populated. > > If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a > wakeup > call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the > truth > to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by > summer vacation and updates. > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: > > Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): > >>If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument >> that >> >> the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my >>> >>> servers, >> revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default >> >>> Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the >>> >>> There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the >>> >> mailinglist... >> I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from >> another >> point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how >> "clea
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
We were punished in a similar fashion 3 years before on my campus, where the whole building of 2000 students were stripped from the internet for a day because of a single person that disobeyed the rules - it's a shitty approach but sadly we can't do anything against it. And I am aware of that elitepowered stuff, but more than the actual issue, it's the repeated 20+ mail long threads that occurs every time someone just mistakenly writes the quickplay word. Also, you can't guarantee that people just wont continue disobeying the rules - even now, with a little effort you can find tons of servers that should not be present in the quickplay because they ignore the rules stated by valve - yet noone seems to give a f*** about it (even after I tried report those servers, they are still there) :) Dňa 27. 8. 2014 23:21 Robert Paulson wrote / napÃsal(a): You realize that was back in November when elitepowered was using fake players even when Valve had been notified about them months before? Punishing all community servers for this is like deleting the Valve workshop just because one person used copyrighted art. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, pwn wrote: Just to clarify.. I never intended to sound like someone who promotes valve's quickplay decision as a perfect, nor the servers superior to community ones (well, at least a bunch of them), but looking on it as players that prefer vanilla experience then yeah, valve's ones are the most comfortable to hop in. (STAR_'s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxEvEwJt7g video may be a hyped up a little bit, but still got some basic sane points) On the other hand, eric's answer (iirc) to look into quickplay and shift the traffic slowly back to community servers in the next months after gathering enough feedback and then never giving us any further answer to it, giving a middle-finger to all modded servers that provide different game experience (dodgeball, etc etc) by the strict quickplay rules, ignoring our request to notify with some kind of pop-up of the possibility to change to community servers after xy hourplay is a different topic and feels like a big f**k you from valve, but whining about it every week on the mailing list where we practically just repeat ourselves, is not fun anymore; especially when the whining came from serverowners who were the reason those strict changes were made (at least in the mails shortly after the change). Dňa 27. 8. 2014 21:47 Paul wrote / napÃsal(a): That and the fact that most of the time they seem to not respond to bugs or topics such as Quickplay. On 27 August 2014 20:39, Robert Paulson wrote: Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in the top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they would have been up there in equal numbers. Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue all you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing against community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 years and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep their spam-haven populated. If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a wakeup call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the truth to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by summer vacation and updates. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my servers, revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the mailinglist... I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as mentioned previously by someone else).. On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them and reduce your outcome that you can't
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
You realize that was back in November when elitepowered was using fake players even when Valve had been notified about them months before? Punishing all community servers for this is like deleting the Valve workshop just because one person used copyrighted art. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, pwn wrote: > Just to clarify.. > I never intended to sound like someone who promotes valve's quickplay > decision as a perfect, nor the servers superior to community ones (well, at > least a bunch of them), but looking on it as players that prefer vanilla > experience then yeah, valve's ones are the most comfortable to hop in. > (STAR_'s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxEvEwJt7g video may be a hyped > up a little bit, but still got some basic sane points) > > On the other hand, eric's answer (iirc) to look into quickplay and shift > the traffic slowly back to community servers in the next months after > gathering enough feedback and then never giving us any further answer to > it, giving a middle-finger to all modded servers that provide different > game experience (dodgeball, etc etc) by the strict quickplay rules, > ignoring our request to notify with some kind of pop-up of the possibility > to change to community servers after xy hourplay is a different topic and > feels like a big f**k you from valve, but whining about it every week on > the mailing list where we practically just repeat ourselves, is not fun > anymore; especially when the whining came from serverowners who were the > reason those strict changes were made (at least in the mails shortly after > the change). > > > Dňa 27. 8. 2014 21:47 Paul wrote / napÃsal(a): > > That and the fact that most of the time they seem to not respond to bugs >> or >> topics such as Quickplay. >> >> >> On 27 August 2014 20:39, Robert Paulson wrote: >> >> Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in >>> the >>> top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they >>> would >>> have been up there in equal numbers. >>> >>> Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large >>> number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue all >>> you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without >>> moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the >>> dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. >>> >>> I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing >>> against >>> community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 >>> years >>> and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been >>> banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep >>> their >>> spam-haven populated. >>> >>> If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a >>> wakeup >>> call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the truth >>> to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by >>> summer vacation and updates. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: >>> >>> Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that > the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my > servers, >>> revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default > Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the > > There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the mailinglist... I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as >>> mentioned >>> previously by someone else).. On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them >>> and >>> reduce your outcome that you can't cover with the donations/from your pocket? I personally visited most of the servers of the owners here that complained (if it was possible to find out which ones they are running) >>> and >>> in most cases there was nothing new that the server could offer over the valve ones We can rant about valve's servers not being the perfect (no moderation, >>> on >>> overloaded boxes, etc..), but, at least in my eyes, they are still a guarantee that what we get are simply vanilla, with no child
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Given your reply was sent to my inbox directly and not just the mailing list then I'll assume you meant the message for me. In response I ask since when am I currently whining about Quickplay every week, and when did I claim that you were someone who promoted their decision to ignore us/server owners as perfect? I mentioned it as just one example, completely different. If you reread my previous messages then I'm sure you'll find my complaint/concern is about something different in a very recent update and that Quickplay is just one example in relation to it ;). I used Quickplay as one example of the fact that Valve seem to not provide their input or acknowledgement most of the time. On 27 August 2014 22:04, pwn wrote: > Just to clarify.. > I never intended to sound like someone who promotes valve's quickplay > decision as a perfect, nor the servers superior to community ones (well, at > least a bunch of them), but looking on it as players that prefer vanilla > experience then yeah, valve's ones are the most comfortable to hop in. > (STAR_'s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxEvEwJt7g video may be a hyped > up a little bit, but still got some basic sane points) > > On the other hand, eric's answer (iirc) to look into quickplay and shift > the traffic slowly back to community servers in the next months after > gathering enough feedback and then never giving us any further answer to > it, giving a middle-finger to all modded servers that provide different > game experience (dodgeball, etc etc) by the strict quickplay rules, > ignoring our request to notify with some kind of pop-up of the possibility > to change to community servers after xy hourplay is a different topic and > feels like a big f**k you from valve, but whining about it every week on > the mailing list where we practically just repeat ourselves, is not fun > anymore; especially when the whining came from serverowners who were the > reason those strict changes were made (at least in the mails shortly after > the change). > > > Dňa 27. 8. 2014 21:47 Paul wrote / napÃsal(a): > > That and the fact that most of the time they seem to not respond to bugs >> or >> topics such as Quickplay. >> >> >> On 27 August 2014 20:39, Robert Paulson wrote: >> >> Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in >>> the >>> top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they >>> would >>> have been up there in equal numbers. >>> >>> Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large >>> number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue all >>> you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without >>> moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the >>> dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. >>> >>> I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing >>> against >>> community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 >>> years >>> and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been >>> banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep >>> their >>> spam-haven populated. >>> >>> If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a >>> wakeup >>> call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the truth >>> to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by >>> summer vacation and updates. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: >>> >>> Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that > the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my > servers, >>> revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default > Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the > > There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the mailinglist... I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as >>> mentioned >>> previously by someone else).. On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them >>> and >>> reduce your outcome that you can't cover with the donations/from your pocket? I personally visited most of the servers of the owners here that
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Just to clarify.. I never intended to sound like someone who promotes valve's quickplay decision as a perfect, nor the servers superior to community ones (well, at least a bunch of them), but looking on it as players that prefer vanilla experience then yeah, valve's ones are the most comfortable to hop in. (STAR_'s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxEvEwJt7g video may be a hyped up a little bit, but still got some basic sane points) On the other hand, eric's answer (iirc) to look into quickplay and shift the traffic slowly back to community servers in the next months after gathering enough feedback and then never giving us any further answer to it, giving a middle-finger to all modded servers that provide different game experience (dodgeball, etc etc) by the strict quickplay rules, ignoring our request to notify with some kind of pop-up of the possibility to change to community servers after xy hourplay is a different topic and feels like a big f**k you from valve, but whining about it every week on the mailing list where we practically just repeat ourselves, is not fun anymore; especially when the whining came from serverowners who were the reason those strict changes were made (at least in the mails shortly after the change). Dňa 27. 8. 2014 21:47 Paul wrote / napÃsal(a): That and the fact that most of the time they seem to not respond to bugs or topics such as Quickplay. On 27 August 2014 20:39, Robert Paulson wrote: Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in the top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they would have been up there in equal numbers. Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue all you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing against community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 years and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep their spam-haven populated. If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a wakeup call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the truth to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by summer vacation and updates. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my servers, revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the mailinglist... I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as mentioned previously by someone else).. On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them and reduce your outcome that you can't cover with the donations/from your pocket? I personally visited most of the servers of the owners here that complained (if it was possible to find out which ones they are running) and in most cases there was nothing new that the server could offer over the valve ones We can rant about valve's servers not being the perfect (no moderation, on overloaded boxes, etc..), but, at least in my eyes, they are still a guarantee that what we get are simply vanilla, with no childish admins, tons of useless bronny or whatever else plugins... Or get different, learn a bit of programming to get something special that others don't have, start with 1 or 2 servers instead with dozens of them (and increase the amount *if* needed) and people that do use the serverbrowser will find you (yeah, there are, i get almost no traffic from quickplay, yet have my server is still full) --- Táto správa neobsahuje vÃrusy ani žiadny Å¡kodlivý kód - avast! Antivirus je aktÃvny. http://www.avast.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 27/08/2014 16:28, Frank wrote: You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to the Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not just Valve servers. If you can't untick a box Frank, I'm offering a week's course starting in October. I'm making the assumption you know what October is - did you do the training? -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 27/08/2014 16:30, Alexander Corn wrote: If you hold someone's hand from the start and never let go, they're never going to grow up. In this case, people are conditioned to click the giant "PLAY MULTIPLAYER" button and click "PLAY NOW". Many players never click the server browser button, and of those who do, many take one look at it, get overwhelmed, and go back to Quickplay. The server browser is not difficult to use, but the player is trained to "take the easy way out" and just click on the Quickplay button. If you required 'training' to play a computer game, good luck to you. You'll need it :D But, I'm not going to argue unless you say "I cannot join a server - I didn't learn, it's all too difficult for me. Help me please Valve" There's no point arguing over hypothetical people you've invented. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
That and the fact that most of the time they seem to not respond to bugs or topics such as Quickplay. On 27 August 2014 20:39, Robert Paulson wrote: > Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in the > top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they would > have been up there in equal numbers. > > Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large > number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue all > you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without > moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the > dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. > > I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing against > community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 years > and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been > banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep their > spam-haven populated. > > If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a wakeup > call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the truth > to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by > summer vacation and updates. > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: > > > Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): > > > > If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that > >> the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my > servers, > >> revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default > >> Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the > >> > > > > There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the > > mailinglist... > > I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another > > point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how > > "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were > > enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks > > to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as > mentioned > > previously by someone else).. > > > > On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always > > complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that > > hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't > > succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most > > almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them > and > > reduce your outcome that you can't cover with the donations/from your > > pocket? > > > > I personally visited most of the servers of the owners here that > > complained (if it was possible to find out which ones they are running) > and > > in most cases there was nothing new that the server could offer over the > > valve ones > > We can rant about valve's servers not being the perfect (no moderation, > on > > overloaded boxes, etc..), but, at least in my eyes, they are still a > > guarantee that what we get are simply vanilla, with no childish admins, > > tons of useless bronny or whatever else plugins... > > Or get different, learn a bit of programming to get something special > that > > others don't have, start with 1 or 2 servers instead with dozens of them > > (and increase the amount *if* needed) and people that do use the > > serverbrowser will find you (yeah, there are, i get almost no traffic > from > > quickplay, yet have my server is still full) > > > > --- > > Táto správa neobsahuje vÃrusy ani žiadny Å¡kodlivý kód - avast! Antivirus > > je aktÃvny. > > http://www.avast.com > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Before the quickplay change, there was not a single official server in the top 200 on gametracker. If official servers were truly the best, they would have been up there in equal numbers. Some community server worse than official ones. But there are a large number of community servers that were clearly superior. You can argue all you want about "everyone" preferring a vanilla experience without moderators or plugins that fix the many problems with TF2, but the dominance of community servers prior to this change refutes that. I've shown time and time again that many of the people here arguing against community servers here are failed owners who haven't played TF2 in 2 years and want to see the rest of us fail, or serial spammers who have been banned from every popular community who wants to ensure they can keep their spam-haven populated. If anyone is still thinking about running servers, this should be a wakeup call to stay far away from Valve games. Maybe they will realize the truth to what we've been saying when player counts aren't being propped up by summer vacation and updates. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM, pwn wrote: > Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): > > If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that >> the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my servers, >> revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default >> Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the >> > > There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the > mailinglist... > I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another > point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how > "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were > enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks > to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as mentioned > previously by someone else).. > > On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always > complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that > hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't > succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most > almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them and > reduce your outcome that you can't cover with the donations/from your > pocket? > > I personally visited most of the servers of the owners here that > complained (if it was possible to find out which ones they are running) and > in most cases there was nothing new that the server could offer over the > valve ones > We can rant about valve's servers not being the perfect (no moderation, on > overloaded boxes, etc..), but, at least in my eyes, they are still a > guarantee that what we get are simply vanilla, with no childish admins, > tons of useless bronny or whatever else plugins... > Or get different, learn a bit of programming to get something special that > others don't have, start with 1 or 2 servers instead with dozens of them > (and increase the amount *if* needed) and people that do use the > serverbrowser will find you (yeah, there are, i get almost no traffic from > quickplay, yet have my server is still full) > > --- > Táto správa neobsahuje vÃrusy ani žiadny Å¡kodlivý kód - avast! Antivirus > je aktÃvny. > http://www.avast.com > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Dňa 27. 8. 2014 19:00 Jake Forrester wrote / napÃsal(a): If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my servers, revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the There is not a simple month that "issue" goes unnoticed on the mailinglist... I myself was/(still am?) against the quickplay changes, but (from another point of view) they are simply the most wanted servers because of how "clean" they are ... As much as I don't like how those changes were enforced on us serverowners, I am still on Valve's side with this, thanks to those greedy assholes that runs servers simply for profit (as mentioned previously by someone else).. On the other hand, at least half of the serverowners that are always complaining about the changes, are trying to run the same scheme that hundreds of other communities do - if most of other communities didn't succeed, why do you think you will do? Running 10 servers, that are most almost always empty - wouldn't it be better to lower the amount of them and reduce your outcome that you can't cover with the donations/from your pocket? I personally visited most of the servers of the owners here that complained (if it was possible to find out which ones they are running) and in most cases there was nothing new that the server could offer over the valve ones We can rant about valve's servers not being the perfect (no moderation, on overloaded boxes, etc..), but, at least in my eyes, they are still a guarantee that what we get are simply vanilla, with no childish admins, tons of useless bronny or whatever else plugins... Or get different, learn a bit of programming to get something special that others don't have, start with 1 or 2 servers instead with dozens of them (and increase the amount *if* needed) and people that do use the serverbrowser will find you (yeah, there are, i get almost no traffic from quickplay, yet have my server is still full) --- Táto správa neobsahuje vÃrusy ani žiadny Å¡kodlivý kód - avast! Antivirus je aktÃvny. http://www.avast.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
> > Haha, I can't believe how I've seemingly managed to start off a Quickplay > discussion, or perhaps debate, just by mentioning it earlier on as an > example of the one of many failings that Valve doesn't officially keep > people up to date on. I found it funny too, but it's not surprising. This mailing list is (mostly) for people who host their own servers, so any changes that make our lives harder tend to put us all on the same side. The quickplay changes hurt pretty much all of us, big and small, and I'm sure caused the death of a few smaller communities. However, the changes also hurt the "communities" that didn't care for the users at all but instead focused on making money. That last part is probably the most important, since Valve's intention was to eliminate pay-to-win and ad-spamming servers. If we want to inspire change, we need to have a compelling argument that the majority of us can get behind--not just "psht, you ruined my servers, revert the changes or I'll shout at you." You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to the > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not just > Valve servers. So far this is the only idea I've actually seen recently, and it's a solid start. I think that leaving them how they are is fine for the first ~50 hours of gameplay. Show new users what vanilla TF2 is like and teach them how to play on Valve servers, but after they have played a bit have a dialog pop-up on launch asking if they want to include community servers in their Quickplay searches. Add a sentence or two about what this would mean to their experience and give them a choice to turn off the valve-only option. Users who have some experience in TF2 will know that they don't have to deal with spammy advertisements, and know when a server is doing something that is game-breaking. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Paul wrote: > Haha, I can't believe how I've seemingly managed to start off a Quickplay > discussion, or perhaps debate, just by mentioning it earlier on as an > example of the one of many failings that Valve doesn't officially keep > people up to date on. > > > On 27 August 2014 16:37, Ilya Larin wrote: > > > Valve said that there will not be server quickplay scores in the future > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:31 GMT+04:00 Alexander Corn : > > > > > Setting the server host to "don't care" by default wouldn't even help > at > > > this point unless it came with a complete reset of all Valve servers' > > > scores. Being the default servers for so long has artificially inflated > > > their scores. > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Frank wrote: > > > > > > > You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. > > > > > > > > You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take > > the > > > > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to > the > > > > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not > > just > > > > Valve servers. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ilya > > > Larin > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM > > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > > > > > dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad > servers > > > are > > > > full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they > > are > > > > bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look > > for a > > > > good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new > > > > servers > > > > are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, > they > > > are > > > > not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay > settings. > > > Old > > > > players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a > > > servers > > > > community to regular on. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : &g
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Wow really? No On Aug 27, 2014 11:57 AM, "Jorge Cobos" wrote: > Entra & Disfruta De Nuestros servidores. > -[ZK]#Zero Killed Base Builder gT. 204.10.109.17:27016 > -[ZK]# ]NG[ ProPlayers GT. 204.10.109.23:27015 > J-200| §olDi3r XtReMe 24/7 IP :74.91.127.210:27019 > > > > 2014-08-27 10:17 GMT-06:00 Paul : > > > Haha, I can't believe how I've seemingly managed to start off a Quickplay > > discussion, or perhaps debate, just by mentioning it earlier on as an > > example of the one of many failings that Valve doesn't officially keep > > people up to date on. > > > > > > On 27 August 2014 16:37, Ilya Larin wrote: > > > > > Valve said that there will not be server quickplay scores in the future > > > > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:31 GMT+04:00 Alexander Corn : > > > > > > > Setting the server host to "don't care" by default wouldn't even help > > at > > > > this point unless it came with a complete reset of all Valve servers' > > > > scores. Being the default servers for so long has artificially > inflated > > > > their scores. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Frank > wrote: > > > > > > > > > You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. > > > > > > > > > > You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to > take > > > the > > > > > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to > > the > > > > > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up > not > > > just > > > > > Valve servers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of > Ilya > > > > Larin > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM > > > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > > > > > > > dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad > > servers > > > > are > > > > > full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because > they > > > are > > > > > bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look > > > for a > > > > > good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all > new > > > > > servers > > > > > are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, > > they > > > > are > > > > > not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay > > settings. > > > > Old > > > > > players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a > > > > servers > > > > > community to regular on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > > > > > > > > > > > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their > servers > > > > > >> when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the > server > > > > > >> browser exists? > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be > > > > > > intelligent enough to use the server browser. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to > get > > on > > > > > > a server was with the browser. > > > > > > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and > > talented? > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm > sure > > > > > > others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous > > > argument > > > > > > that people can't join your server because they need to use the > > > > > > browser. > > > > >
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Entra & Disfruta De Nuestros servidores. -[ZK]#Zero Killed Base Builder gT. 204.10.109.17:27016 -[ZK]# ]NG[ ProPlayers GT. 204.10.109.23:27015 J-200| §olDi3r XtReMe 24/7 IP :74.91.127.210:27019 2014-08-27 10:17 GMT-06:00 Paul : > Haha, I can't believe how I've seemingly managed to start off a Quickplay > discussion, or perhaps debate, just by mentioning it earlier on as an > example of the one of many failings that Valve doesn't officially keep > people up to date on. > > > On 27 August 2014 16:37, Ilya Larin wrote: > > > Valve said that there will not be server quickplay scores in the future > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:31 GMT+04:00 Alexander Corn : > > > > > Setting the server host to "don't care" by default wouldn't even help > at > > > this point unless it came with a complete reset of all Valve servers' > > > scores. Being the default servers for so long has artificially inflated > > > their scores. > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Frank wrote: > > > > > > > You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. > > > > > > > > You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take > > the > > > > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to > the > > > > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not > > just > > > > Valve servers. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ilya > > > Larin > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM > > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > > > > > dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad > servers > > > are > > > > full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they > > are > > > > bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look > > for a > > > > good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new > > > > servers > > > > are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, > they > > > are > > > > not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay > settings. > > > Old > > > > players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a > > > servers > > > > community to regular on. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > > > > > > > > > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers > > > > >> when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server > > > > >> browser exists? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be > > > > > intelligent enough to use the server browser. > > > > > > > > > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get > on > > > > > a server was with the browser. > > > > > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and > talented? > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure > > > > > others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous > > argument > > > > > that people can't join your server because they need to use the > > > > > browser. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Dan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > &
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Haha, I can't believe how I've seemingly managed to start off a Quickplay discussion, or perhaps debate, just by mentioning it earlier on as an example of the one of many failings that Valve doesn't officially keep people up to date on. On 27 August 2014 16:37, Ilya Larin wrote: > Valve said that there will not be server quickplay scores in the future > > > 2014-08-27 19:31 GMT+04:00 Alexander Corn : > > > Setting the server host to "don't care" by default wouldn't even help at > > this point unless it came with a complete reset of all Valve servers' > > scores. Being the default servers for so long has artificially inflated > > their scores. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Frank wrote: > > > > > You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. > > > > > > You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take > the > > > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to the > > > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not > just > > > Valve servers. > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ilya > > Larin > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > > > dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers > > are > > > full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they > are > > > bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look > for a > > > good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new > > > servers > > > are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, they > > are > > > not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay settings. > > Old > > > players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a > > servers > > > community to regular on. > > > > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > > > > > > > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > > > > > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers > > > >> when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server > > > >> browser exists? > > > >> > > > > > > > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be > > > > intelligent enough to use the server browser. > > > > > > > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on > > > > a server was with the browser. > > > > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > > > > > > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure > > > > others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous > argument > > > > that people can't join your server because they need to use the > > > > browser. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dan. > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Valve said that there will not be server quickplay scores in the future 2014-08-27 19:31 GMT+04:00 Alexander Corn : > Setting the server host to "don't care" by default wouldn't even help at > this point unless it came with a complete reset of all Valve servers' > scores. Being the default servers for so long has artificially inflated > their scores. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Frank wrote: > > > You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. > > > > You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the > > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to the > > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not just > > Valve servers. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ilya > Larin > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers > are > > full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they are > > bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look for a > > good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new > > servers > > are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, they > are > > not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay settings. > Old > > players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a > servers > > community to regular on. > > > > > > 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > > > > > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > > > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers > > >> when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server > > >> browser exists? > > >> > > > > > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be > > > intelligent enough to use the server browser. > > > > > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on > > > a server was with the browser. > > > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > > > > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure > > > others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous argument > > > that people can't join your server because they need to use the > > > browser. > > > > > > -- > > > Dan. > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Setting the server host to "don't care" by default wouldn't even help at this point unless it came with a complete reset of all Valve servers' scores. Being the default servers for so long has artificially inflated their scores. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Frank wrote: > You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. > > You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the > default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to the > Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not just > Valve servers. > > > -Original Message- > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ilya Larin > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers are > full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they are > bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look for a > good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new > servers > are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, they are > not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay settings. Old > players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a servers > community to regular on. > > > 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > > > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers > >> when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server > >> browser exists? > >> > > > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be > > intelligent enough to use the server browser. > > > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on > > a server was with the browser. > > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure > > others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous argument > > that people can't join your server because they need to use the > > browser. > > > > -- > > Dan. > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
If you hold someone's hand from the start and never let go, they're never going to grow up. In this case, people are conditioned to click the giant "PLAY MULTIPLAYER" button and click "PLAY NOW". Many players never click the server browser button, and of those who do, many take one look at it, get overwhelmed, and go back to Quickplay. The server browser is not difficult to use, but the player is trained to "take the easy way out" and just click on the Quickplay button. The people who were playing TF2 for years before Quickplay were forced to use the server browser. They didn't have an option to give up and get dumped into a random Valve server with 23 other noobs and an average of tickrate of 45. >This idea of "community" is nonsense. Right, because no player in the history of online gaming has formed online friendships with people who frequent a particular server. No server chain in the history of online gaming has ever run a forum where players can discuss things outside of the game. Everyone who runs a server is purely in it for the profit. Maybe Valve should just remove the ability for people to host their own servers. Then every game's nonexistent "community" can be as friendly and understanding as that of Dota 2 or League of Legends. >It's no more difficult to find a server now than it was the day the game was released. Yes, it is. Players are encouraged to use Quickplay since its button is gigantic and reads "PLAY MULTIPLAYER". The server browser button, on the other hand, is much smaller and is simply labeled "Servers". Tell me this, why are you just a contrarian? You absolutely always have to contradict everything. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:06 AM, dan wrote: > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers when >> about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server browser >> exists? >> > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be intelligent > enough to use the server browser. > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on a > server was with the browser. > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure others > will help you but don't keep > repeating this ridiculous argument that people can't join your server > because they need to use the browser. > > -- > Dan. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
You can't argue with him..I have no idea why I even replied. You said it though "Default Quickplay Settings" - Valve needs to take the default settings off of Valve servers as targets and apply them to the Community servers or just mix them up so they are all showing up not just Valve servers. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ilya Larin Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers are full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they are bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look for a good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new servers are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, they are not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay settings. Old players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a servers community to regular on. 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers >> when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server >> browser exists? >> > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be > intelligent enough to use the server browser. > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on > a server was with the browser. > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure > others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous argument > that people can't join your server because they need to use the > browser. > > -- > Dan. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Who said in this thread that people are too dumb to use the server browser? They obviously aren't, and what you present is a non-argument. Fact is: A significant part of the playerbase is not using the server browser anymore, and the alternative options by default heavily prefer Valve servers, to the point where it is not even an option to join beta-map community servers *at all*. You can rant about the community and argue with us all you like, but don't pretend that quickplay and the subsequent changes favoring Valve servers never happened. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 5:06 PM, dan wrote: > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: >> >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers when >> about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server browser >> exists? > > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be intelligent > enough to use the server browser. > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on a > server was with the browser. > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure others > will help you but don't keep > repeating this ridiculous argument that people can't join your server > because they need to use the browser. > > -- > Dan. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
dan, you don`t get the point of this discussion. While old bad servers are full of players, new good servers can`t get players not because they are bad, but because players don`t want to open server browser and look for a good server. (Im not saying that all old servers are bad and all new servers are good) New players don`t even know how to search a nice server, they are not familiar with that. They are just using default quickplay settings. Old players also don`t use serverbrowser, as they have already found a servers community to regular on. 2014-08-27 19:06 GMT+04:00 dan : > On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > >> How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers when >> about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server browser >> exists? >> > > Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be intelligent > enough to use the server browser. > > Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on a > server was with the browser. > How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? > > As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure others > will help you but don't keep > repeating this ridiculous argument that people can't join your server > because they need to use the browser. > > -- > Dan. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 27/08/2014 15:59, Alexander Corn wrote: How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server browser exists? Right, because only a guy who pretends to be a Doctor can be intelligent enough to use the server browser. Sheesh, people were playing TF2 for years when the only way to get on a server was with the browser. How do you suppose they did that? They were all gifted and talented? As I've said before, if you cannot join a server, ask and I'm sure others will help you but don't keep repeating this ridiculous argument that people can't join your server because they need to use the browser. -- Dan. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 27/08/2014 15:37, Frank wrote: Pushing USA players to EU is a problem on its own that can be dealt with. Yes, by providing more USA servers (and perhaps servers in some regions that don't have any - hint: if you want full servers run them where Valve don't) You can make servers better I'm glad you agree. but at the end of the day if Valve makes it difficult for people to find them then there is no point. It's no more difficult to find a server now than it was the day the game was released. If you think finding a server is difficult I will teach you how, otherwise if you can find your own server I can't see why you think it's difficult for anyone else. Do you believe you are special or gifted in some way? I have a Vanilla Asteroid server up and it hardly ever gets touched lets push traffic to the Community - the same community that is keeping the game alive. Frank, you complain your server is empty and then claim your server is "keeping the game alive" These are mutually exclusive ideas. This idea of "community" is nonsense. Most of the so-called "community" servers are just small businesses running hundreds of servers to try and make some easy cash. They've spent the years since the game came out configuring their servers to that end - i.e using plugins and configuration changes that they think will net them the most return. There might be a few exceptions - a few individuals running servers for fun rather than profit, but most of the time I run the game I typically have a choice between Valve's servers or one of the skial, multiplay, lotus etc etc etc. The community of players is probably not even the same people now 6 or 7 years later, and they owe you nothing Frank. Nobody owes you anything. If you made some money, frankly you were lucky because the barrier to entry to running a server doesn't exist. Quite literally any buffoon can do it. Hence if Valve decided to monitise it, there would suddenly appear thousands and thousands of servers just trying to grab that money - and there simply are not enough players to fill them all. We've seen what happens when you decide you want to fight each other for the servers and it's nothing other than detrimental to the game. See, stuff like map making and item creation has a barrier. You need to be skilled to do it, and it's easy to reject bad maps and bad items. You had your chance to run servers but this so-called "community" blew it by trying to shaft the player base and each other with moronic plugins, bots etc etc to make a quick buck. If you personally didn't do that, great, but bad luck that's the "community" of server owners that you are part of. They didn't keep the game alive and it was them who made it difficult to find a server, by flooding the browser with fake information. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
How, exactly, do you expect people to get players on their servers when about 45% of people probably don't even know that the server browser exists? Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 10:30 AM, dan wrote: > On 27/08/2014 15:14, Frank wrote: > >> It would be nice to see Valve decrease the amount of Valve servers >> > > No it wouldn't. It's already bad enough when USA players get put on > European servers > with 150+ pings. > > If anything they need a few more. > > If you can't get players then make your servers better don't ask Valve to > force or push players > onto your server. > -- > Dan > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Pushing USA players to EU is a problem on its own that can be dealt with. You can make servers better but at the end of the day if Valve makes it difficult for people to find them then there is no point. Options are auto checked for Valve servers, I have a Vanilla Asteroid server up and it hardly ever gets touched when you have Valve Asteroid servers that are slammed full. This Asteroid server I have is better than a Valve server of equal location and managed better. Nope - they need less Valve servers, lets push traffic to the Community - the same community that is keeping the game alive. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of dan Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 10:30 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 On 27/08/2014 15:14, Frank wrote: > It would be nice to see Valve decrease the amount of Valve servers No it wouldn't. It's already bad enough when USA players get put on European servers with 150+ pings. If anything they need a few more. If you can't get players then make your servers better don't ask Valve to force or push players onto your server. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
On 27/08/2014 15:14, Frank wrote: It would be nice to see Valve decrease the amount of Valve servers No it wouldn't. It's already bad enough when USA players get put on European servers with 150+ pings. If anything they need a few more. If you can't get players then make your servers better don't ask Valve to force or push players onto your server. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
You just don't understand if there were not hats you wouldn't have a now 6 year old game as popular as it still is. Bute i agree. TF2 has many aspects of playing. Now the gameservers owning one does not make us enjoy it. Thats sad. Hope i will have enough patience to not shut my servers down because of inactivity ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
It would be nice to see Valve decrease the amount of Valve servers - perhaps one of those guys will chime in here and let us know the current amount and if they plan on decreasing any. A little help from Valve to push players to Community servers would be nice. Issue is the constant complains and bickering on SPUF when it comes to any change in this regard. They just don't understand if it wasn't for the Community you wouldn't have a now 6 year old game as popular as it still is. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Corn Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 1:32 AM To: Paul Lewis; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 The Quickplay change was supposed to be a temporary measure, but it's not looking very temporary while Valve servers suck up about 45% of traffic. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
The Quickplay change was supposed to be a temporary measure, but it's not looking very temporary while Valve servers suck up about 45% of traffic. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Paul wrote: > Couldn't have said better myself. I hate to say this, perhaps I'm being a > bit negative here, but I feel I'm being fairly objective when I say that > these days it feels like updates are made with good intentions at first, > but are either rushed or not thoroughly tested and then additional bugs are > introduced and generally take a considerable time to get fixed (if ever, > unless of course it's related to something like the Mann Co Store showing > incorrect prices). Then when these bugs are enquired about, all goes > quiet (unless critically important, such as when an update was released a > while ago that prevented the Windows version srcds on a TF2 update from > running). Another classic example is Quickplay, a while ago there was a lot > of discussion on here on that subject, but no further comments were > officially made regarding the future of that decision, it just went all > quiet if I recall. > > > On 27 August 2014 00:42, Kyle Sanderson wrote: > > > Not to be the guy to be against updating, but if there aren't any > > fixes for any of the show stoppers that are out there (like the > > parallel sending functions crashing all over the place / looping > > forever); why update at all? > > > > Thanks, > > Kyle. > > > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Eric Smith > > wrote: > > > We will eventually update DoD:S , CS:S, and HL2:DM with the engine > > changes. Those updates should happen in the next couple weeks. Those are > > the only planned updates at this time. > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: > > hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Weasels Lair > > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:11 PM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > > Cc: hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com; > > hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > > > Eric - > > > > > > Is there any clarity Valve can share on which games this change will > > occur with next? CS:S? HL2MP? HL1DM(Source)MP? > > > > > > Also, is this planned eventually for GoldSrc-based titles as well? > (HL1, > > CS, DMC, TFC, DoD, etc.)? or will it only effect Source-based titles? > > > > > > I ask because, although work-around's are now in-place/available for > > various server-side mods (such as SourceMod and SourceBans) for > > Source-engine games - I do not think anything has been done yet with > > preparing server-side mods (such as AMX-Mod-X and possibly AMX-Bans) for > > GoldSrc-based games. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > - Weasel > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Eric Smith > > wrote: > > > > > >> We apologize for the lack of warning regarding the SteamID format > > >> change in today's update. It was our intent to give the community a > > >> heads-up before the change was released, but it was missed. > > >> > > >> The change was made to update TF2 to use the current SteamID format, > > >> which most other games on Steam and Steam itself uses. You will find > > >> that you can now use SteamIDs rendered by these other locations in > > >> your interactions with the engine. The engine will still recognize the > > >> old format, though, so your current server ban lists should still be > > valid. > > >> > > >> The conversion equation has already been posted by a community member, > > >> but here it is again: > > >> > > >> Old:STEAM_0:A:B > > >> New:[U:1:B*2+A] > > >> Example:STEAM_0:1:1234 --->[U:1:2469] > > >> > > >> We're sorry for the problems this may cause while you update your > > >> scripts to use the new format. It was not our intent to disrupt your > > servers. > > >> > > >> -Eric > > >> > > >> > > >> ___ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > >
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Couldn't have said better myself. I hate to say this, perhaps I'm being a bit negative here, but I feel I'm being fairly objective when I say that these days it feels like updates are made with good intentions at first, but are either rushed or not thoroughly tested and then additional bugs are introduced and generally take a considerable time to get fixed (if ever, unless of course it's related to something like the Mann Co Store showing incorrect prices). Then when these bugs are enquired about, all goes quiet (unless critically important, such as when an update was released a while ago that prevented the Windows version srcds on a TF2 update from running). Another classic example is Quickplay, a while ago there was a lot of discussion on here on that subject, but no further comments were officially made regarding the future of that decision, it just went all quiet if I recall. On 27 August 2014 00:42, Kyle Sanderson wrote: > Not to be the guy to be against updating, but if there aren't any > fixes for any of the show stoppers that are out there (like the > parallel sending functions crashing all over the place / looping > forever); why update at all? > > Thanks, > Kyle. > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Eric Smith > wrote: > > We will eventually update DoD:S , CS:S, and HL2:DM with the engine > changes. Those updates should happen in the next couple weeks. Those are > the only planned updates at this time. > > > > -Eric > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: > hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Weasels Lair > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:11 PM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > Cc: hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com; > hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > > > Eric - > > > > Is there any clarity Valve can share on which games this change will > occur with next? CS:S? HL2MP? HL1DM(Source)MP? > > > > Also, is this planned eventually for GoldSrc-based titles as well? (HL1, > CS, DMC, TFC, DoD, etc.)? or will it only effect Source-based titles? > > > > I ask because, although work-around's are now in-place/available for > various server-side mods (such as SourceMod and SourceBans) for > Source-engine games - I do not think anything has been done yet with > preparing server-side mods (such as AMX-Mod-X and possibly AMX-Bans) for > GoldSrc-based games. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > - Weasel > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Eric Smith > wrote: > > > >> We apologize for the lack of warning regarding the SteamID format > >> change in today's update. It was our intent to give the community a > >> heads-up before the change was released, but it was missed. > >> > >> The change was made to update TF2 to use the current SteamID format, > >> which most other games on Steam and Steam itself uses. You will find > >> that you can now use SteamIDs rendered by these other locations in > >> your interactions with the engine. The engine will still recognize the > >> old format, though, so your current server ban lists should still be > valid. > >> > >> The conversion equation has already been posted by a community member, > >> but here it is again: > >> > >> Old:STEAM_0:A:B > >> New:[U:1:B*2+A] > >> Example:STEAM_0:1:1234 --->[U:1:2469] > >> > >> We're sorry for the problems this may cause while you update your > >> scripts to use the new format. It was not our intent to disrupt your > servers. > >> > >> -Eric > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Not to be the guy to be against updating, but if there aren't any fixes for any of the show stoppers that are out there (like the parallel sending functions crashing all over the place / looping forever); why update at all? Thanks, Kyle. On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > We will eventually update DoD:S , CS:S, and HL2:DM with the engine changes. > Those updates should happen in the next couple weeks. Those are the only > planned updates at this time. > > -Eric > > > -Original Message- > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Weasels Lair > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:11 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Cc: hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 > > Eric - > > Is there any clarity Valve can share on which games this change will occur > with next? CS:S? HL2MP? HL1DM(Source)MP? > > Also, is this planned eventually for GoldSrc-based titles as well? (HL1, CS, > DMC, TFC, DoD, etc.)? or will it only effect Source-based titles? > > I ask because, although work-around's are now in-place/available for various > server-side mods (such as SourceMod and SourceBans) for Source-engine games - > I do not think anything has been done yet with preparing server-side mods > (such as AMX-Mod-X and possibly AMX-Bans) for GoldSrc-based games. > > Best wishes, > > - Weasel > > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > >> We apologize for the lack of warning regarding the SteamID format >> change in today's update. It was our intent to give the community a >> heads-up before the change was released, but it was missed. >> >> The change was made to update TF2 to use the current SteamID format, >> which most other games on Steam and Steam itself uses. You will find >> that you can now use SteamIDs rendered by these other locations in >> your interactions with the engine. The engine will still recognize the >> old format, though, so your current server ban lists should still be valid. >> >> The conversion equation has already been posted by a community member, >> but here it is again: >> >> Old:STEAM_0:A:B >> New:[U:1:B*2+A] >> Example:STEAM_0:1:1234 --->[U:1:2469] >> >> We're sorry for the problems this may cause while you update your >> scripts to use the new format. It was not our intent to disrupt your servers. >> >> -Eric >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
We will eventually update DoD:S , CS:S, and HL2:DM with the engine changes. Those updates should happen in the next couple weeks. Those are the only planned updates at this time. -Eric -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Weasels Lair Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:11 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Cc: hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2 Eric - Is there any clarity Valve can share on which games this change will occur with next? CS:S? HL2MP? HL1DM(Source)MP? Also, is this planned eventually for GoldSrc-based titles as well? (HL1, CS, DMC, TFC, DoD, etc.)? or will it only effect Source-based titles? I ask because, although work-around's are now in-place/available for various server-side mods (such as SourceMod and SourceBans) for Source-engine games - I do not think anything has been done yet with preparing server-side mods (such as AMX-Mod-X and possibly AMX-Bans) for GoldSrc-based games. Best wishes, - Weasel On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > We apologize for the lack of warning regarding the SteamID format > change in today's update. It was our intent to give the community a > heads-up before the change was released, but it was missed. > > The change was made to update TF2 to use the current SteamID format, > which most other games on Steam and Steam itself uses. You will find > that you can now use SteamIDs rendered by these other locations in > your interactions with the engine. The engine will still recognize the > old format, though, so your current server ban lists should still be valid. > > The conversion equation has already been posted by a community member, > but here it is again: > > Old:STEAM_0:A:B > New:[U:1:B*2+A] > Example:STEAM_0:1:1234 --->[U:1:2469] > > We're sorry for the problems this may cause while you update your > scripts to use the new format. It was not our intent to disrupt your servers. > > -Eric > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] New SteamID format for TF2
Eric - Is there any clarity Valve can share on which games this change will occur with next? CS:S? HL2MP? HL1DM(Source)MP? Also, is this planned eventually for GoldSrc-based titles as well? (HL1, CS, DMC, TFC, DoD, etc.)? or will it only effect Source-based titles? I ask because, although work-around's are now in-place/available for various server-side mods (such as SourceMod and SourceBans) for Source-engine games - I do not think anything has been done yet with preparing server-side mods (such as AMX-Mod-X and possibly AMX-Bans) for GoldSrc-based games. Best wishes, - Weasel On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > We apologize for the lack of warning regarding the SteamID format change > in today's update. It was our intent to give the community a heads-up > before the change was released, but it was missed. > > The change was made to update TF2 to use the current SteamID format, which > most other games on Steam and Steam itself uses. You will find that you can > now use SteamIDs rendered by these other locations in your interactions > with the engine. The engine will still recognize the old format, though, so > your current server ban lists should still be valid. > > The conversion equation has already been posted by a community member, but > here it is again: > > Old:STEAM_0:A:B > New:[U:1:B*2+A] > Example:STEAM_0:1:1234 --->[U:1:2469] > > We're sorry for the problems this may cause while you update your scripts > to use the new format. It was not our intent to disrupt your servers. > > -Eric > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
