Re: [hlds_linux] Server Hardware Requirements (L4D & TF2)
On 29.04.2009 20:28, Barny wrote: > To be honest (considering that I'm neither > a Linux, nor a HLDS expert), for me it seems that L4D/HLDS will consume > all the resources quickly what you provide to it, although it can > operate very nice with moderate hardware like as I described above. > If you are talking about memory, then this is how Linux generally works - it uses the memory for filesystem buffers and cache. The most reliable way to measure HLDS memory usage is to look at RSS in top or ps aux output (and add shared memory between servers, which usually about 20mb - if forked). I've recently noticed that even the free's "-/+ buffers/cache" may not show the correct memory usage, as it includes some of the memory that the system actually doesn't need and would be freed if any of the applications require it. Taavi ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server Hardware Requirements (L4D & TF2)
I use one virtual L4D server (Xen, Linux as both the host and guest OS), which mainly operates in campaign mode, so serves up to 4 players. The host machine is an old IBM server with dual 1.3GHz P3 CPU (Coppermine) and a RAID5 array with SCSI disks, 3 units. The virtual (guest) machine has the allocated resources of a single 1.3GHz CPU, 256MB RAM and it runs happily without any performance issues (I play the game quite much and never had any problem, nor the small community which uses it). But I also tried to run L4D server temporarily on my desktop PC (Raptor HDD, E8400, 8GB RAM) and a few L4D instances quickly consumed all the available hardware resources. To be honest (considering that I'm neither a Linux, nor a HLDS expert), for me it seems that L4D/HLDS will consume all the resources quickly what you provide to it, although it can operate very nice with moderate hardware like as I described above. Maybe you should try to setup guest machines under Xen with limited hardware resources and make some tests with real workload (then reduce the allocated resources, as long as it does not impact the performance). Also, if you consider to use virtualization, purchase a CPU which supports it; that will significantly reduce the overhead associated with it. Cheers, Barny Logan Rogers-Follis wrote: > I am not sure of the exact hardware needs (RAM/CPU) for TF2 and L4D. I > currently have a L4D server running on a Windows XP Pro w/ 512MB RAM and > a P4 2.0Ghz, which runs good until we get more than 6 real players on VS > then it tends to lag a bit. So I am looking to buy/build a server that > will run the game better and which I can also run a TF2 server on. > > What kind of specs should I be looking for when building/buying a server > that I want to have Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 running on. I plan > to load the machine with CentOS 5.x and virtualize it using Xen so I can > have one instance of CentOS running Team Fortress 2 with it's own > resources and then another running 1-3 instances of Left 4 Dead (ie. 1 > VS and 1-2 Survival/Campaign). > > I was looking at a machine with the following specs, would it be enough > to provide smooth gaming for the above setup? > > Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz CPU > 4GB DDR PC2100 ECC RAM > 4x 36GB SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drives (RAID 1) > > I'm thinking and hoping it will. > > Thanks, > Logan Rogers-Follis > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server Hardware Requirements (L4D & TF2)
Good point. I don't want to find myself in need of a better server in 6-month so a year even. I'd like to be able to leave this server running for quite a long time. Would I maybe be better off getting a machine like I listed to JUST run TF2 (1 game) and then another same or even with less power to run some L4D? Logan Rogers-Follis Eric Riemers wrote: > I have a dual xeon 3ghz, which runs 6 l4d's forked. if its really busy, it > could hold up to 3/4 vs games with 8 players, and the others filled with > 4.. at that point i see it sometimes hit 0% idle, maybe you could do more > and i have a bad setup.. but anything more then that will show ingame.. > > So say around 35 people are using it then at some point (l4d).. i do think > that l4d is less unhappy when the pc is at 100% cpu compared to tf2 where > if that happens everybody is affected, since the director might be busy on > 1 instance and the other instance is just walking around.. > Also got scsi 10krpm 3x raid 5.. > > So i think its wise to get some more power.. also keep in your mind that > even if you find a system that just barely reaches what you want (say tf2 > 24 people and some l4d) in the end when the custom maps for l4d will become > more common and tf2 brings out a few new updates for sniper/soldier/demo > etc it will need additional power (at least so far its only growing) and > then your in the same boat again. > > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:12:31 -0600, Logan Rogers-Follis > wrote: > >> I am not sure of the exact hardware needs (RAM/CPU) for TF2 and L4D. I >> currently have a L4D server running on a Windows XP Pro w/ 512MB RAM and >> a P4 2.0Ghz, which runs good until we get more than 6 real players on VS >> then it tends to lag a bit. So I am looking to buy/build a server that >> will run the game better and which I can also run a TF2 server on. >> >> What kind of specs should I be looking for when building/buying a server >> that I want to have Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 running on. I plan >> to load the machine with CentOS 5.x and virtualize it using Xen so I can >> have one instance of CentOS running Team Fortress 2 with it's own >> resources and then another running 1-3 instances of Left 4 Dead (ie. 1 >> VS and 1-2 Survival/Campaign). >> >> I was looking at a machine with the following specs, would it be enough >> to provide smooth gaming for the above setup? >> >> Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz CPU >> 4GB DDR PC2100 ECC RAM >> 4x 36GB SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drives (RAID 1) >> >> I'm thinking and hoping it will. >> >> Thanks, >> Logan Rogers-Follis >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server Hardware Requirements (L4D & TF2)
Are we talking about a multi-core like Dual Core or Quad Core? I am trying to watch how much I spend, but I don't want to spend too little and get screwed in a few months or a year. Right now my group only plays L4D (some of us have been playing TF2 for a long time), but we are slowly getting everyone playing TF2 as well and that's why I want a server for both. How about RAM? Is 2GB enough or should I diffidently go with 4GB? If 2GB is enough to start I can always upgrade later when it's needed. Thanks for the advise on not going with virtualisation. I will just stick with one OS. I'm paying for all this on my own and a few of the other group members might throw me a few bucks, but that's why I'm trying to watch my dollars :) Thanks! Logan Rogers-Follis Ben wrote: > Assuming you're talking about the old single core Xeons here, but > depending on the player slots on TF2, but a machine with those specs > really won't be up to scratch at all. To give you an indication, > anything over 16 players on a TF2 server running on a 3.4Ghz Xeon causes > noticeable in-game performance issues, and even then with just 16 slots > its cutting it fine. So a 2.8Ghz Xeon isn't enough grunt really at all > for a TF2 server. > > I would also strongly recommend against virtualising the machine, unless > you want to run multiple different operating systems on it. There is an > overhead associated with running a virtualisation layer and that eats > into the CPU power available, when the primary resource games servers > needs is CPU grunt. > > To give you an idea, we run our TF2 (and L4D) servers on Dual Quad Core > 3Ghz machines, and a full 24 slot TF2 server consumes 60-70% of a single > core when its full. L4D servers are anywhere from 10-20% CPU of a > single core depending on what mode they are running (and whats happening > in-game), even though we don't really see a lot of difference between > the game modes in terms of CPU consumption. Obviously its dependent on > what is happening in-game at that point in time, but we haven't had to > decrease the number of forks (64) we've been running on our boxes since > Survival mode came out. > > I'd suggest getting the fastest current generation multi-core CPU you > can afford, even if its just a 1 CPU machine, it'll be way better than a > Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz thats for sure. > > > > Logan Rogers-Follis wrote: > >> I am not sure of the exact hardware needs (RAM/CPU) for TF2 and L4D. I >> currently have a L4D server running on a Windows XP Pro w/ 512MB RAM and >> a P4 2.0Ghz, which runs good until we get more than 6 real players on VS >> then it tends to lag a bit. So I am looking to buy/build a server that >> will run the game better and which I can also run a TF2 server on. >> >> What kind of specs should I be looking for when building/buying a server >> that I want to have Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 running on. I plan >> to load the machine with CentOS 5.x and virtualize it using Xen so I can >> have one instance of CentOS running Team Fortress 2 with it's own >> resources and then another running 1-3 instances of Left 4 Dead (ie. 1 >> VS and 1-2 Survival/Campaign). >> >> I was looking at a machine with the following specs, would it be enough >> to provide smooth gaming for the above setup? >> >> Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz CPU >> 4GB DDR PC2100 ECC RAM >> 4x 36GB SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drives (RAID 1) >> >> I'm thinking and hoping it will. >> >> Thanks, >> Logan Rogers-Follis >> >> >> >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server Hardware Requirements (L4D & TF2)
Assuming you're talking about the old single core Xeons here, but depending on the player slots on TF2, but a machine with those specs really won't be up to scratch at all. To give you an indication, anything over 16 players on a TF2 server running on a 3.4Ghz Xeon causes noticeable in-game performance issues, and even then with just 16 slots its cutting it fine. So a 2.8Ghz Xeon isn't enough grunt really at all for a TF2 server. I would also strongly recommend against virtualising the machine, unless you want to run multiple different operating systems on it. There is an overhead associated with running a virtualisation layer and that eats into the CPU power available, when the primary resource games servers needs is CPU grunt. To give you an idea, we run our TF2 (and L4D) servers on Dual Quad Core 3Ghz machines, and a full 24 slot TF2 server consumes 60-70% of a single core when its full. L4D servers are anywhere from 10-20% CPU of a single core depending on what mode they are running (and whats happening in-game), even though we don't really see a lot of difference between the game modes in terms of CPU consumption. Obviously its dependent on what is happening in-game at that point in time, but we haven't had to decrease the number of forks (64) we've been running on our boxes since Survival mode came out. I'd suggest getting the fastest current generation multi-core CPU you can afford, even if its just a 1 CPU machine, it'll be way better than a Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz thats for sure. Logan Rogers-Follis wrote: > I am not sure of the exact hardware needs (RAM/CPU) for TF2 and L4D. I > currently have a L4D server running on a Windows XP Pro w/ 512MB RAM and > a P4 2.0Ghz, which runs good until we get more than 6 real players on VS > then it tends to lag a bit. So I am looking to buy/build a server that > will run the game better and which I can also run a TF2 server on. > > What kind of specs should I be looking for when building/buying a server > that I want to have Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 running on. I plan > to load the machine with CentOS 5.x and virtualize it using Xen so I can > have one instance of CentOS running Team Fortress 2 with it's own > resources and then another running 1-3 instances of Left 4 Dead (ie. 1 > VS and 1-2 Survival/Campaign). > > I was looking at a machine with the following specs, would it be enough > to provide smooth gaming for the above setup? > > Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz CPU > 4GB DDR PC2100 ECC RAM > 4x 36GB SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drives (RAID 1) > > I'm thinking and hoping it will. > > Thanks, > Logan Rogers-Follis > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server Hardware Requirements (L4D & TF 2)
I have a dual xeon 3ghz, which runs 6 l4d's forked. if its really busy, it could hold up to 3/4 vs games with 8 players, and the others filled with 4.. at that point i see it sometimes hit 0% idle, maybe you could do more and i have a bad setup.. but anything more then that will show ingame.. So say around 35 people are using it then at some point (l4d).. i do think that l4d is less unhappy when the pc is at 100% cpu compared to tf2 where if that happens everybody is affected, since the director might be busy on 1 instance and the other instance is just walking around.. Also got scsi 10krpm 3x raid 5.. So i think its wise to get some more power.. also keep in your mind that even if you find a system that just barely reaches what you want (say tf2 24 people and some l4d) in the end when the custom maps for l4d will become more common and tf2 brings out a few new updates for sniper/soldier/demo etc it will need additional power (at least so far its only growing) and then your in the same boat again. On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:12:31 -0600, Logan Rogers-Follis wrote: > I am not sure of the exact hardware needs (RAM/CPU) for TF2 and L4D. I > currently have a L4D server running on a Windows XP Pro w/ 512MB RAM and > a P4 2.0Ghz, which runs good until we get more than 6 real players on VS > then it tends to lag a bit. So I am looking to buy/build a server that > will run the game better and which I can also run a TF2 server on. > > What kind of specs should I be looking for when building/buying a server > that I want to have Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 running on. I plan > to load the machine with CentOS 5.x and virtualize it using Xen so I can > have one instance of CentOS running Team Fortress 2 with it's own > resources and then another running 1-3 instances of Left 4 Dead (ie. 1 > VS and 1-2 Survival/Campaign). > > I was looking at a machine with the following specs, would it be enough > to provide smooth gaming for the above setup? > > Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz CPU > 4GB DDR PC2100 ECC RAM > 4x 36GB SCSI 10K RPM Hard Drives (RAID 1) > > I'm thinking and hoping it will. > > Thanks, > Logan Rogers-Follis > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Server hardware requirements
I'm actually wondering what's to say that it actually will put more strain on a server? Nothing about the changes suggests to me that it necessarily will (granted not that it won't by any means). As for being threaded not helping much; I can see obvious places where you can thread the server, whereas it's the client that's harder to thread and improve anything. Not saying you can't with the client by any means or that it has improved much with the server - but you'd expect it would be harder to do with the client than the DS from an architectural aspect for sure. All of the above shouldn't be taken as a replacement for me knowing anything specific, just mainly guesswork, but threading is a server 'tool' more than a client tool just because it's more easy to say things like "this is a client, this is a thread for that client" and other methods of doing fun/obvious things that aren't necessarily that obvious when coding the client. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Midnight > Sent: 16 September 2007 02:53 > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Server hardware requirements > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > Should be fine for a 20 player server at default settings. The real > question becomes how high can you run the tick rate and fps settings at > and still not overload the server. I think one core should handle at > least 1 20 player server at 500fps and 100 tick without any problem. > > James Gurney wrote: > > Hi folks, long time no email. (Been on and off this list for the past > 6 > > years or so). > > > > I tried searching the archives for this question, but it's hard to > do, > > so apologies in advance if this has come up on a regular basis. If > > there's a thread or a wiki page somewhere I can read, I'd appreciate > the > > link. > > > > We're getting ready to host a TF2 server on our now aging hardware, > and > > I'd like to get a rough idea of how much performance we'll get with > the > > Steam back-end. We have a dual Opteron 244 (1.8GHz). I'm well aware > that > > the dual proc won't help a great deal, so considering a single one of > > these processors - is it sufficient to host a 20 player steam based > > server? Of course, TF2 will likely put more strain than a hldm or CS > > server, but I'm just looking for a rough estimate at this point. > > > > If the hardware we have is insufficient, what's a good level to be > going > > for instead? We're running Linux, if that makes a significant > difference. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > James > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > -- > [ midowns.vcf of type text/x-vcard deleted ] > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server hardware requirements
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- Should be fine for a 20 player server at default settings. The real question becomes how high can you run the tick rate and fps settings at and still not overload the server. I think one core should handle at least 1 20 player server at 500fps and 100 tick without any problem. James Gurney wrote: > Hi folks, long time no email. (Been on and off this list for the past 6 > years or so). > > I tried searching the archives for this question, but it's hard to do, > so apologies in advance if this has come up on a regular basis. If > there's a thread or a wiki page somewhere I can read, I'd appreciate the > link. > > We're getting ready to host a TF2 server on our now aging hardware, and > I'd like to get a rough idea of how much performance we'll get with the > Steam back-end. We have a dual Opteron 244 (1.8GHz). I'm well aware that > the dual proc won't help a great deal, so considering a single one of > these processors - is it sufficient to host a 20 player steam based > server? Of course, TF2 will likely put more strain than a hldm or CS > server, but I'm just looking for a rough estimate at this point. > > If the hardware we have is insufficient, what's a good level to be going > for instead? We're running Linux, if that makes a significant difference. > > Thanks in advance, > > James > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- [ midowns.vcf of type text/x-vcard deleted ] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
