[Hornlist] H470
Well, I leave off the list for a few years, and I see nothing but natural horns. This is a sight I have missed for sometime. Here is my situation: About a couple of weeks ago, my district had a meeting with a selection of middle school and high school band directors. We decided to streamlined the selection of instruments in the district to save time, money, and to make transfering instruments from one school to another easier. (The district does not need 14 types of alto saxes!!) I, representing the horns, made a selection for the district, since no other directors wanted to touch this area. (I know, long story.) Well, I saw on the choices to be considered, a new Holton model H470. Any word on this new model? Thanks! Rebecca M. Gonzales Rogers MS Band San Antonio Tx __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] holton 192 or 176
I have a Holton 281 (brass Farkas with a bronze screw bell), and I hope that this is in some way helpful. When I was looking for a horn two years ago, I found out that the 281 is more open feeling than the Holton 180 (Brass Farkas). However, this might only be true for the ones I played, also taking into account every other variable. Before I bought the horn, the salesman advised me to buy the horn as a screw bell, because the bronze is weak because of copper content, so it bends and dents too easily, but having the screw bell ring helps this. I don't know how true any of this is, but I like the Holton 281, it's a good horn for the money. Another thing the salesman told me was that "there is no perfect horn; that would take all of the sport out of playing." William Foss "The various viewpoints on Horn tone are held with such fierce devotion that one encounters otherwise in religious controversies." -Gunther Schuller From: "Hunt,Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: The Horn List To: "The Horn List" Subject: [Hornlist] holton 192 or 176 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:00:25 -0500 Anybody had a chance to try the H-192. It is a Gye wrap with the Merker dual bore. what about horns they make with bronze bells, the 105 and the 176? Any epxerience? tom in iowa ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Hi, me again, I don't usually do this on public forums, but I just wanted to thank Professor Pizka for his in-depth answer. I'm aware that a player of his caliber probably doesn't have a lot of time to deal with the trivial questions of students who pay him no money and live on another continent. I know that I for one revere him as the sort of "Horn Buddah", who will always have a correct answer to what ever horn-related question I ask him, and I personally feel that deserves some appreciation. Thank you, Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, you got the news quite late indeed, as even Dennis Brain started the "natural horn rebirth" in the very early 1950ies, more than 50 years ago. And he got a large number of "followers", who adopted the natural horn ads their "second leg" for special concerts since. Nick, have you ever heard of concerts with period instruments ? It seems, you belong to the vast number of young players living on a far away planet without registering what´s around them. That does not only happen on your continent, it is a world wide epidemic not only restricted to music. Achieving a technical mastery of the instrument, which players of my generation could not even imagine, but completely outside the context of music, without phantasy, without feeling, without everything essential for the art of music. So far, the situation. Yes, this changed world - not to blame you, Nick, and your commilitones - , this world with ist acoustical environment pollution has reduced our sensitivity to near zero level, so most of us need a sample for everything (e.g. recording), as we cannot imagine how a piece would sound, by mere reading the written or printed music. We have reduced ourselves to poor imitators more or less. But few exception remaining phantasyful & creative. Those climb up the ladder of success. Those get the best jobs in the orchestra. The rarity of these talents is the reason, why more & more good orchestra vacancies cannot be filled with appropriate young musicians. Before we hire a only-technician-musician, we leave a top position vacant for years. Back to your question: You seem to mix up the facts. Conch shell & ox horn were signal instruments, nothing else. Olifants (= the horns made of elephant tuscs) were extremely precious, were used as ceremonial & signal instruments as were the antic lures. This was different from what we think of music in the classical way. It was not music "per se". Hunting horns can play together in one tonality only, except we use the imperfect system of modulating single pitches by the use of the right hand in the bell (quite complicate regarding the dimensions of these horns). If the group is large enough & includes horns of different pitch, the group can play modestly altered tonalities in the performances. But this is again a deviation from the pure path of hunting horn playing. So hunting horn playing remains restricted, even received enthusiastic by the audiences because of the special sound & the optical sensation, restricted due to the compository limitations. And it cannot be named a musical instrument in our modern sense therefore. The hand horn or natural horn is different, as a real natural horn virtuoso (Halstead, Bonet, Greer, Garcin-Marrou, etc.) can play nearly every kind of music from early baroque period until late romantic on this kind of horn, and in a way, most technical advanced (valve horn) players cannot dare to dream of. Why these rebirth ? (during my study, there was no rebirth of the natural horn necessary, as it was part of our study, but at the beginning, the very beginning. It was the beginning !) Yes, this rebirth brings back the basic technique of horn playing, the better feeling for tone colours, the better lip control (bending, sharpening, lowering, lip trills, stopping, hand muting) with all the benefits for the modern double horn. Forgot the mute ? No problem. Do it by hand. Forgot stopping mute ? No problem, go to hand-stopping. Etc.etc. And, playing period music with period instruments creates a better understanding for blending with other instruments (horn = tin viola !), gives better understanding about possible tempi, dynamics etc. And more, more, more . The driving point for a rebirth of a somewhat antiquated instrument is not the number of existing concert pieces. This view would be much too narrow. But believe me: learning this old techniques will help you to make you a better "modern" horn player & musician. = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicholas Hartman Hartman Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 3:09 AM To: horn list Subject: [Hornlist] the natural
RE: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day
Bill, the weight lifting analogy is backwards, I'm afraid. (Did I mention I have a few certifications in that area as well?) People who train to get larger, like "Ahnold", train very hard but infrequently, while people who train for strength typically train much more often. It's far from a simple situation, however, as many people who wish to get stronger wish to add muscle as part of that process. I've chosen to stay in my current weight class, and certain movements I do indeed train 7 days a week and I don't get any bigger. And training schedule really isn't the only variable - by playing with the number of reps in a set, and rest period between sets, and the relative intensity of the weight being used, almost any goal can be pursued on the same days/week schedule. My working theory for the horn is that I need a bit of hypertrophy (increase in muscle size) in the muscles that work my embouchure. I still notice, after having played for the better part of a year, that I often get my best sound in the first few minutes and feel a lot of fatigue in muscles at the sides of my mouth when I'm playing. So that's why I'm trying every day - to get a like more "Ahnold"-like in the muscles of my embouchure. Theories abound - we'll see if I'm playing any better in a month or two. -S- > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 1:13 PM > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day > > Back in college I rowed crew, and the coach trained us for > world class competition. He was thoroughly aware of all the > latest advances in training at that level. Since we rowed in > Boston, but trained year round, we did a lot of indoor work > during the winter. Rowing requires both strength and > endurance. For endurance, we ran eight miles every day. For > strength, we lifted free weights, but never two days in a > row. We weren't so interested in maximum lifting power as in > developing sustained strength. We had a set group of > exercises, and the coxwains set the weights for each rower > and recorded progress. The standard was three sets of ten > repetitions, with two minutes between sets. There were jump > ropes, so you wouldn't get bored waiting around. > > The idea was that this training broke the muscle fibers down > as lactic acid entered the system. If you want to look like > our California Governator, you do it every day. For strength > building, the body needs a day to recover and respond. When > you are doing these sets, the lactic acid makes your arms > heavy feeling, and there is a mild 'burning' sensation as the > fibers do what they do. There is nothing preventing lifting > like this every day, but ergometer work on alternate days > seems to distribute the results, and the muscles don't bulk > up like a weight lifter. > > I can just relate this experience to your observations and > hope there's somebody who can fill in the medical reason. > I've been to the circus and seen the clowns juggle four or > five ping pong balls with there lips. If our coach had been > a conductor, the brass section would have been duplicating > that feat with two inch ball bearings. I was playing horn > professionally during that time, and at college beer blasts I > would amuse people by blowing up a hot water bottle until it > burst. You should see how big they get. It's absolutely amazing! > > -Original Message- > From: Steve Freides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: 'The Horn List' > Sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:28:50 -0400 > Subject: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day > > > I've been experimenting with practicing for more time per day > but only every other day - not double, but a bit more than I > otherwise might if practicing every day. So far, I'm pleased > with the results. Curious to know if others, especially > beginners or teachers of beginners, have found this works. > I'm sure it won't work forever but, for the time being, it > feels like I'm getting stronger faster this way. > > Thanks in advance. > > -S- > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc > omputer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] shofar news
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Quoting David Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > But I googled Steve's 'tekiah gedolah' and among other things found out
> > that "steaming or boiling of the shofar is not permitted."
>
> How about letting some dermestid beetles clean it up for you?
>
> www.ummz.lsa.umich.edu/mammals/dermestid.html
>
> They aren't "altering" it, just cleaning off the stinky bits. It's their job.
>
> Carole Nowicke
Maybe yes, maybe no. Notice that the shofar itself has to be the horn of
a kosher animal. The entrance of an unkosher animal into the shofar would
likely objected to.
Leviticus 11:22 lists the types of beetles that are kosher: "Even these of
them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his
kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind."
[KJV]
However, different translations say it slightly differently. One lists
katydids, another lists crickets. (http://bible.cc/leviticus/11-22.htm)
It isn't clear (to me) if the dermestid beetle would pass the test.
I wonder if you could use dermestid beetles to clean out an ordinary brass
horn, especially a gunked up leadpipe.
Thanks Carole, for an interesting and unusual, if NHR website.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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Re: [Hornlist] the natural horn
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, James Ray Crenshaw wrote:
>
> > And where are you gonna get a stopping mute to fit... a Conch Shell?
The animal that lived in the shell would make a good stopping mute. But
best don't use it after about three days.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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[Hornlist] Hora Decima in Concert - 26 June 2005
Public Service Announcement: Sunday, 26 June 2005 - 7:00 PM Christ & St. Stephen's Church 120 West 69 Street New York City Admission by donation: $15 appreciated Featured on the program will be trumpeter Dominic Derasse performing the New York premiere of Anthony Plog's "Concerto No. 1." The program: Komm Susser Tod J.S. Bach (arr. Allen) Mutations from Bach for Brass Choir and Timpani Samuel Barber Fanfares Liturgiques Henri Tomasi Suite from "The Perfect Fool" Gustav Holst (arr.Friedman) Concerto No. 1 Anthony Plog (1988) Serenade for BrassRobert Starer (1956) Pavane pour une Infante Defunte Maurice Ravel (arr. Allen) Overture to the Barber of Seville Gioachino Rossini (arr. Allen) Two Canzonas from Symphoniae Sacre Septimi toni No. 2 Primi toni Giovanni Gabrieli Hora Decima is: Conductor David Chamberlain Trumpet Dominic Derasse Frank Hosticka David Schneck Bruce Staelens Colin Brigstocke Horn RJ Kelley Michelle Bolton Aime Margoles Eric Davis Trombone Brad Ward Bob Suttmann Jeff Nelson Euphonium Terry Pierce Tuba Morris Kainuma Percussion Gregory Landes Jonathan Gleich More information about the ensemble is available on their website at: www.horadecima.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Some days I think I'm playing on a clam shell. Want fries with that? -Original Message- From: Jim Riesen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: The Horn List Sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:42:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Hornlist] the natural horn I have written a serenade for two conch shells and flute that was actually performed by yours truly on 1st Conch and two friends of mine, back in college. So yes, the conch shell is also making a comeback! Jim >@/ On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:22 PM, Jerry Houston wrote: > Nicholas Hartman Hartman wrote: >> Dear List, >> I've heard that recently, the natural horn has been making a >> comeback. My question is, why the natural horn? Why not the hunting >> horn, alp horn, or even the conch shell? it seem like an oddly >> specific instrument to make a comeback. There are dozens of horns >> that have had an impact on the development of the modern horn, yet no >> one would put the words "Seraphinoff" and "Conch Shell" in the same >> sentence (except for just then). > > Just a wild guess, but I suspect it's because there is such a rich > > repertoire of beautiful music that was originally written at a time > when > all horns were natural horns, and thus, it's quite playable on > one. > Beethoven and Mozart come to mind immediately. > > If someone has written a Concerto for Conch Shell, I'm not aware of > it. And > where are you gonna get a stopping mute to fit one?"If music > be the food of > love, play on" ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day
Back in college I rowed crew, and the coach trained us for world class competition. He was thoroughly aware of all the latest advances in training at that level. Since we rowed in Boston, but trained year round, we did a lot of indoor work during the winter. Rowing requires both strength and endurance. For endurance, we ran eight miles every day. For strength, we lifted free weights, but never two days in a row. We weren't so interested in maximum lifting power as in developing sustained strength. We had a set group of exercises, and the coxwains set the weights for each rower and recorded progress. The standard was three sets of ten repetitions, with two minutes between sets. There were jump ropes, so you wouldn't get bored waiting around. The idea was that this training broke the muscle fibers down as lactic acid entered the system. If you want to look like our California Governator, you do it every day. For strength building, the body needs a day to recover and respond. When you are doing these sets, the lactic acid makes your arms heavy feeling, and there is a mild 'burning' sensation as the fibers do what they do. There is nothing preventing lifting like this every day, but ergometer work on alternate days seems to distribute the results, and the muscles don't bulk up like a weight lifter. I can just relate this experience to your observations and hope there's somebody who can fill in the medical reason. I've been to the circus and seen the clowns juggle four or five ping pong balls with there lips. If our coach had been a conductor, the brass section would have been duplicating that feat with two inch ball bearings. I was playing horn professionally during that time, and at college beer blasts I would amuse people by blowing up a hot water bottle until it burst. You should see how big they get. It's absolutely amazing! -Original Message- From: Steve Freides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'The Horn List' Sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:28:50 -0400 Subject: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day I've been experimenting with practicing for more time per day but only every other day - not double, but a bit more than I otherwise might if practicing every day. So far, I'm pleased with the results. Curious to know if others, especially beginners or teachers of beginners, have found this works. I'm sure it won't work forever but, for the time being, it feels like I'm getting stronger faster this way. Thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] the natural horn
> And where are you gonna get a stopping mute to fit... a Conch Shell? Or more important; just a plain "stopper." jrc ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] shofar news
Quoting David Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > But I googled Steve's 'tekiah gedolah' and among other things found out > that "steaming or boiling of the shofar is not permitted." > How about letting some dermestid beetles clean it up for you? www.ummz.lsa.umich.edu/mammals/dermestid.html They aren't "altering" it, just cleaning off the stinky bits. It's their job. Carole Nowicke [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] shofar news
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Steve Freides wrote:
> Actually played a shofar? The big thing about them is that, at least until
> they've gotten pretty old and well-used, they absolutely stink. The room,
> if not well ventilated, literally smells like, well, a dead animal
(snip)
I was about to recommend boiling the shofar to kill bacteria and remove as
much offending substance as possible. I have done this with stinky
conches - works great, but do the boiling outside and down-wind if you
can. pheee.
But I googled Steve's 'tekiah gedolah' and among other things found out
that "steaming or boiling of the shofar is not permitted."
In any case, there is a ton of shofar information available at the press
of a key. Here is more, from
http://groups.msn.com/TragerTrumpetTalk/theshofar.msnw
(note the minimum allowed length)
According to the Mishna, two different forms of shofar were used in the
Temple: one made of ibex horn.Its bell was ornamented with gold, and it
was sounded at New Year and during the Yovel Days. Another type of shofar
made of ram's horn, with silver ornamentation, was sounded on fast days.
We learn from the Mishna and the Talmud that in the Hellenistic period no
improvements or modifications that might affect the tone were permitted:
no gold-plating of its interior, no plugging of holes, no alteration of
its length (the minimum permissible length of a ritually approved horn is
3 handbreadths); the shofar tone was to be preserved unaltered.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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RE: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day
Herbert Foster wrote: > Horn playing is also an athletic activity. Many athletes in > training will alternate a hard workout day with a light > workout day. This gives the muscles a chance to heal. -snip- This was my thinking, too. I'm a regular exerciser and, among other things, a competitive weight lifter (although I don't fit most people's stereotypes of lifters at 5' 8" and 150 lbs.) and I felt like I needed a bit more rest in order for some basic increase in muscle tissue to take place. I'm into week #3 of this, still too early to tell, but so far, it feels like it's working. I'm going to be away for a few weeks in August and, although I toyed with the idea of either bringing a horn or arranging access to one, I'm also considering making it my "off-season" and just starting up again in September, another practice with precedent in the athletic world. Thanks, Herb. -S- > Herb Foster > > --- Steve Freides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've been experimenting with practicing for more time per > day but only > > every other day - not double, but a bit more than I > otherwise might if > > practicing every day. So far, I'm pleased with the > results. Curious > > to know if others, especially beginners or teachers of > beginners, have > > found this works. I'm sure it won't work forever but, for the time > > being, it feels like I'm getting stronger faster this way. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -S- > > > > ___ > > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > > unsubscribe or set options at > > > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > __ > Discover Yahoo! > Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. > Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc > omputer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Steve Turre, jazz trombonist, is also a jazz conchist. He has a group, Sanctified Shells, and CDs. While a natural horn has a greater range, several notes can be gotten out of a conch shell by manipulating the right hand in the, er, bell. Now about getting a tuned set of conch shells... Herb Foster --- Jerry Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nicholas Hartman Hartman wrote: > > Dear List, > > I've heard that recently, the natural horn has been making a > > comeback. My question is, why the natural horn? Why not the hunting > > horn, alp horn, or even the conch shell? it seem like an oddly > > specific instrument to make a comeback. There are dozens of horns > > that have had an impact on the development of the modern horn, yet no > > one would put the words "Seraphinoff" and "Conch Shell" in the same > > sentence (except for just then). > > Just a wild guess, but I suspect it's because there is such a rich > repertoire of beautiful music that was originally written at a time when all > horns were natural horns, and thus, it's quite playable on one. Beethoven > and Mozart come to mind immediately. > > If someone has written a Concerto for Conch Shell, I'm not aware of it. And > where are you gonna get a stopping mute to fit one? > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] holton 192 or 176
Yeah, I played the 192 for a month trying to get used to it. I've usually had good luck with Holton's quality, but the one was playing had problems with the linkage to the F/Bb thumb rotor, and the others were slow. The shop tried and tried to tweak it, but in the end, I returned it. If I was playing OPEN, it played just like the Yamaha 667 for me. I really like the 105. I have a student who bought one for Christmas. Other than the fancy bells and whistles, I liked the response and tone. Very clear and easy to play. Hope this helps! Sonja -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hunt,Thomas Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 11:00 PM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] holton 192 or 176 Anybody had a chance to try the H-192. It is a Gye wrap with the Merker dual bore. what about horns they make with bronze bells, the 105 and the 176? Any epxerience? tom in iowa ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Practicing every other day
Horn playing is also an athletic activity. Many athletes in training will alternate a hard workout day with a light workout day. This gives the muscles a chance to heal. On the light days you could work on non-playing musical activites such as ear training. Herb Foster --- Steve Freides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've been experimenting with practicing for more time per day but only every > other day - not double, but a bit more than I otherwise might if practicing > every day. So far, I'm pleased with the results. Curious to know if > others, especially beginners or teachers of beginners, have found this > works. I'm sure it won't work forever but, for the time being, it feels > like I'm getting stronger faster this way. > > Thanks in advance. > > -S- > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com > __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Some special wax or lacquer helps. But not for the raw horn. Perhaps, play it hot to advert stunk. The same with lamb. If it is hot, it tastes superb, but getting cold, a case to vomite. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:29 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn Actually played a shofar? The big thing about them is that, at least until they've gotten pretty old and well-used, they absolutely stink. The room, if not well ventilated, literally smells like, well, a dead animal when someone plays the shofar more than just briefly. I've been told you can run a dilute vinegar solution through them to help with the smell but we haven't tried that yet and apparently it can adversely affect the playing quality of the shofar if you don't do it just right. Steve "Tekiah Gedolah" Freides > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] .e > du] On Behalf Of Alan Cole > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 8:18 AM > To: The Horn List > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn > > Hey, with all the money you save by not needing to buy rotary valve > oil, you can commission some famous composer to write something for > natural horn or conch shell or shofar. > > -- Alan Cole, rank amateur > McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. > ~~~ > At 08:06 AM 6/6/2005, you wrote: > > >How about more work for the Shofar? A composer could start his work > >and when he's completed his first movement could announce, "well, > >shofari so goody." > > > > > >Hey, it's Monday that's my excuse. > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005 > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40friday sc > omputer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Well, that's just a matter of articulation, is it not? -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ At 10:46 AM 6/6/2005, you wrote: It's a mind boggling idea. Though I think it would be a "toot," not "a hoot." - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
It's a mind boggling idea. Though I think it would be a "toot," not "a hoot." -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Cole Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:36 AM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn Shucks, wouldn't surprise me 1 bit to learn the animal husbandry geniuses down at Texas A&M -- if they wanted to -- could turn out herds of the appropriate variety of the proper species that collectively grow complete sets of shofar-ready appendages in a range of sizes that provide for making an accurately tuned complete set, fully chromatic in the aggregate. Wouldn't that be a hoot? -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~ [. . . ] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Shucks, wouldn't surprise me 1 bit to learn the animal husbandry geniuses down at Texas A&M -- if they wanted to -- could turn out herds of the appropriate variety of the proper species that collectively grow complete sets of shofar-ready appendages in a range of sizes that provide for making an accurately tuned complete set, fully chromatic in the aggregate. Wouldn't that be a hoot? -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~ At 10:17 AM 6/6/2005, you wrote: Slightly off-topic now on shofars and not horns, but Steve, are different shofarot "tuned" the same? I know next to nothing about them but since they are not "made" in the sense a horn is, I imagine getting four of them in tune with each other might not be a simple thing? I guess the shofar "maker" could continual test the instrument and gradually shorten it until it gets to the right fundamental, but I imagine the overtones would be different among four shofars of the same fundamental as well. In other words, if you could talk a bit more about what you know of "classical" composition for the shofar, at least this one list member would find it very interesting from a technical point of view. -S- -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Slightly off-topic now on shofars and not horns, but Steve, are different shofarot "tuned" the same? I know next to nothing about them but since they are not "made" in the sense a horn is, I imagine getting four of them in tune with each other might not be a simple thing? I guess the shofar "maker" could continual test the instrument and gradually shorten it until it gets to the right fundamental, but I imagine the overtones would be different among four shofars of the same fundamental as well. In other words, if you could talk a bit more about what you know of "classical" composition for the shofar, at least this one list member would find it very interesting from a technical point of view. -S- > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of Steven Ovitsky > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 8:50 AM > To: 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn > > Bill Gross wrote: How about more work for the Shofar > > New York composer, Rafael Mostel, recently finished a new > piece for brass (4-4-4-1), NIGHT AND DAWN (NACHT EN > DAGERAAD), including a brief section for 4 shofarot (with > ossia for standard horns using different music - or with > additional musicians so both parts can be played simultaneously). > > It was commissioned for the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra > Brass Ensemble to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the > liberation of the Netherlands. The RCO brass, together with > brass from the Chicago Symphony, gave the world premiere in > Orchestra Hall, Chicago on May 3, 2005. > > Rafael has used shofarot in other compositions as well and > always uses them in a "non-traditional" manner, rather than > relying on the tekiah, shevarim and teruah. > > Hugo Weisgall's "Tekiatot" uses a solo shofar in the > traditional manner > within the context of a late 20th century orchestral > composition. I am the > shofar player on the Naxos CD (8.559425) of "Tekiatot" with > the Seattle Symphony and Gerard Schwarz. > > Cheers, > > Steven Ovitsky > Executive Director > Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival > > > > > > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc > omputer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Bill Gross wrote: How about more work for the Shofar New York composer, Rafael Mostel, recently finished a new piece for brass (4-4-4-1), NIGHT AND DAWN (NACHT EN DAGERAAD), including a brief section for 4 shofarot (with ossia for standard horns using different music - or with additional musicians so both parts can be played simultaneously). It was commissioned for the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Brass Ensemble to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands. The RCO brass, together with brass from the Chicago Symphony, gave the world premiere in Orchestra Hall, Chicago on May 3, 2005. Rafael has used shofarot in other compositions as well and always uses them in a "non-traditional" manner, rather than relying on the tekiah, shevarim and teruah. Hugo Weisgall's "Tekiatot" uses a solo shofar in the traditional manner within the context of a late 20th century orchestral composition. I am the shofar player on the Naxos CD (8.559425) of "Tekiatot" with the Seattle Symphony and Gerard Schwarz. Cheers, Steven Ovitsky Executive Director Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] the natural horn
In my opinion, it would be because there is a significant literature for the natural horn, whereas the conch shell, hunting horn, alp horn and the like do not. they may have a large amount of music for them but it is more "practical" than written for its musical value and because of that doesn't have the broader appeal of the natural horn. Also due to the rise in period instrument groups, there are many more opportunities to really perform. paxmaha Nicholas Hartman Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear List, I've heard that recently, the natural horn has been making a comeback. My question is, why the natural horn? Why not the hunting horn, alp horn, or even the conch shell? it seem like an oddly specific instrument to make a comeback. There are dozens of horns that have had an impact on the development of the modern horn, yet no one would put the words "Seraphinoff" and "Conch Shell" in the same sentence (except for just then). Thanks, Nick - Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com - Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Actually played a shofar? The big thing about them is that, at least until they've gotten pretty old and well-used, they absolutely stink. The room, if not well ventilated, literally smells like, well, a dead animal when someone plays the shofar more than just briefly. I've been told you can run a dilute vinegar solution through them to help with the smell but we haven't tried that yet and apparently it can adversely affect the playing quality of the shofar if you don't do it just right. Steve "Tekiah Gedolah" Freides > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of Alan Cole > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 8:18 AM > To: The Horn List > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn > > Hey, with all the money you save by not needing to buy rotary > valve oil, you can commission some famous composer to write > something for natural horn or conch shell or shofar. > > -- Alan Cole, rank amateur > McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. > ~~~ > At 08:06 AM 6/6/2005, you wrote: > > >How about more work for the Shofar? A composer could start his work > >and when he's completed his first movement could announce, "well, > >shofari so goody." > > > > > >Hey, it's Monday that's my excuse. > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005 > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc > omputer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
Hey, with all the money you save by not needing to buy rotary valve oil, you can commission some famous composer to write something for natural horn or conch shell or shofar. -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ At 08:06 AM 6/6/2005, you wrote: How about more work for the Shofar? A composer could start his work and when he's completed his first movement could announce, "well, shofari so goody." Hey, it's Monday that's my excuse. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.2 - Release Date: 6/4/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Pizka Classic
Hello Paul. If you are at the Tuscaloosa symposium, let others try your horn eventually. If some people are interested to get a similar horn, I have three of them ready now. Price still at EUR 5.850.- all included (horn, silver & gold plating, case, shipping, insurance). Remind them of the better exchange rate now which is about 10% better than three months ago. Still 1,23 US $ for one EUR. These three horns ready for shipment are all excellent & tested during Tannhaeuser & Bruckner no.7 & Heldenleben (I played it 8-times this year, two performances still to come). Kindest regards & best wishes Hans ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] the natural horn
How about more work for the Shofar? A composer could start his work and when he's completed his first movement could announce, "well, shofari so goody." Hey, it's Monday that's my excuse. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] the natural horn
I don't think Beethoven or Mozart wrote anything for the conch. All the best, Lawrence "þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg" _http://lawrenceyates.co.uk_ (http://lawrenceyates.co.uk/) Dulcian Wind Quintet: _http://dulcianwind.co.uk_ (http://dulcianwind.co.uk/) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
