[Hornlist] FF vs FFF
Hornfolks: In the 1st movement of Tchaik 4 (the beginning and the horn soli beginning with the written C#, an FF and FFF are presented, respectively. I personally believe that after a certain dynamic, it does not make much of a difference what dynamic the horns are playing-just that it happens to be too loud for the comfort of the remainder of the group. Honestly, how DO you play an FF and an FFF-and distinguish between the two? thanks -- Rachel ___ ...It only goes to show that if you keep your head firmly tucked into your Kopprasch, nothing can hurt you-as long as the metronome doesn't run down... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Music for Sale
Sorry, everyone! I'm sold out! I can't believe how fast it all went! :-) Thanks, ~Sarah - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Music for Sale
Hello again! I wanted to let you all know again that I am totally sold out! However, I will now be selling a berp for $13.50 and a Tom Crown stop mute for $32.00. Both are in excellent condition. If you want these, I suggest jumping on them fast, considering all of the music sold out within 24 hours! Let me know! ~Sarah - See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bible sayings
It seems to me that nobody, up to now, has quoted Psalm 150: ...Praise Him with the blast of the horn, Praise Him with the psaltery and Harp, Praise Him with the timbrel and dance, Praise Him with stringed instruments and the pipe. Praise Him with the loud-sounding cymbals; Praise Him with the clanging cymbals. Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord. Do we have breath? Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Recording
I bought a Sony minidisk recorder (the sole cheap recording device I found at a local shop) and I'm quite satisfied. I recorded a concert of my wind octet and the sound is nice, the balance between the different instruments excellent. I could even issue a CD, were it not for a few mistakes ;-). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] FF vs FFF
harveycor wrote: Hornfolks: In the 1st movement of Tchaik 4 (the beginning and the horn soli beginning with the written C#, an FF and FFF are presented, respectively. I personally believe that after a certain dynamic, it does not make much of a difference what dynamic the horns are playing-just that it happens to be too loud for the comfort of the remainder of the group. Honestly, how DO you play an FF and an FFF-and distinguish between the two? thanks -- Rachel ___ ...It only goes to show that if you keep your head firmly tucked into your Kopprasch, nothing can hurt you-as long as the metronome doesn't run down... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bangs%40cet.com Play the ff softer than fff and louder than f. These dynamic markings are asking for finer control of dynamics, not louder sounds. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] FF vs FFF
My (amateur) experience makes me believe that most composers and arrangers rarely write dynamic markings that are explicite for each instrument group or part. Very often the dynamic mark indicates the volume level desired for the entire ensemble, and it is expected that the conductor and individual players adjust to achieve a good overall sound. Regarding FF vs FFF - blend to fit, but if the 'blend' is already too loud don't make it worse by blasting away - save your chops for later. I don't think there is a notation for 'ugly' or 'painful'. A personal 'peeve' of mine is when an instrument has a solo line marked p, and it is played without enough volume to be heard (or is not played well at such a low volume). Main theme and counter-melody lines always need to be heard by the audience, and with enough volume so the harmony can be played under them. Jay Kosta Endwell NY harveycor harveycor at comcast.net asked ... Honestly, how DO you play an FF and an FFF-and distinguish between the two? ... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Airline Travel Blues
Wouldn't it help if the slides were removed? While they are lighter than the valves, they have a long lever arm to twist the assembly. Herb Foster --- Robert Osmun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are three separate factors to consider when choosing a case for airline travel: ... How well the case protects the instrument is another question. All cases that are designed to be compact fit the horn tightly and have very little padding. If you expect to be in a situation where you will have to check a horn we recommend the Pro Pac line of cases for both screw bell and fixed bell horns. They are durable, very well padded, and inexpensive enough to be used only for traveling. If the horn may be checked immobilize it in the case and fill the open spaces around the valve cluster with tightly packed crushed newspaper or clothing. Most shipping damage to horns is inertial, caused by the heavy valve cluster shifting in relation to the thinner and lighter tubing. ... __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording
You just don't understand a thing about sound recording. Without a separate channel for each instrument, how can an engineer possibly make them sound like they're supposed to? All recordings would sound the same. Who'd by it if it isn't 'special'? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 1:11 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Recording I bought a Sony minidisk recorder (the sole cheap recording device I found at a local shop) and I'm quite satisfied. I recorded a concert of my wind octet and the sound is nice, the balance between the different instruments excellent. I could even issue a CD, were it not for a few mistakes ;-). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Recording
Very simply, they will sound like in a concert with a mixed sound not like the garbage constructed by the engineers with their separation of instruments. I did a lot early stereo recordings with the system developed then by Mr.Charlier. We had (wooden) reflectors behind the horns e.g. or we played verse the head mike (an artificial head with two mikes placed like human ears) looking at the conductor by a big mirror. It worked fantastic we were fast earned several Grand Prix. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 5:06 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Recording You just don't understand a thing about sound recording. Without a separate channel for each instrument, how can an engineer possibly make them sound like they're supposed to? All recordings would sound the same. Who'd by it if it isn't 'special'? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 1:11 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Recording I bought a Sony minidisk recorder (the sole cheap recording device I found at a local shop) and I'm quite satisfied. I recorded a concert of my wind octet and the sound is nice, the balance between the different instruments excellent. I could even issue a CD, were it not for a few mistakes ;-). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%4 0aol.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 43, Issue 20
Rachel Harvey asked (rhetorically, I think) how DO you play an FF and an FFF-and distinguish between the two? It gets worse. I recently saw (in Sibelius No.1, I think) fff followed by a crescendo. I decided that (like much else about my playing) that was more than I could manage. Ralph Mazza ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Recording
Bill - I hope you were kidding in your post. Otherwise, I'm afraid it is in fact you who knows little of recording. Rarely are groups ever recorded nowadays with one mic per instrument. This was experimented with a lot in the 60s and 70s, but most of those recordings sound like utter crap. It is quite plausible and possible (and even done quite often) to capture entire orchestras with as few as 2 mics. (after all, you have 2 ears, right???) However, it's more common to use 4 to 8 microphones for a full symphony. For example, if an orchestra were to paly something like Brahms 4 in a good hall, I would use 2 mics as a main pair (probably Schoeps or Microtech Gefell) in an AB pattern, a pair of mics (also Schoeps or Gefell) as flanks roughly 3 meters off dead center. Then, I migh put a couple spot mics (probably of the ribbon variety) in the WW section and if I were recording for surround sound, I would fly a couple hall mics. Rarely are more mics than this needed but if they are, they are carefully chosen and sparingly placed. Some of the best chamber music recordings I've ever heard were done by a gentleman in Sydney who uses a single Royer SF24 microphone (stereo ribbon mic - very pricey). Just my $.02 worth. J. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 5:06 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Recording You just don't understand a thing about sound recording. Without a separate channel for each instrument, how can an engineer possibly make them sound like they're supposed to? All recordings would sound the same. Who'd by it if it isn't 'special'? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 1:11 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Recording I bought a Sony minidisk recorder (the sole cheap recording device I found at a local shop) and I'm quite satisfied. I recorded a concert of my wind octet and the sound is nice, the balance between the different instruments excellent. I could even issue a CD, were it not for a few mistakes ;-). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Music for Sale
The stop mute has now been sold, but the berp is still avaliable for $13.50. Act fast!!! ~Sarah Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again! I wanted to let you all know again that I am totally sold out! However, I will now be selling a berp for $13.50 and a Tom Crown stop mute for $32.00. Both are in excellent condition. If you want these, I suggest jumping on them fast, considering all of the music sold out within 24 hours! Let me know! ~Sarah - See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/grazioso07%40yahoo.com - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 43, Issue 20
Ralph Mazza wrote: Rachel Harvey asked (rhetorically, I think) how DO you play an FF and an FFF-and distinguish between the two? It gets worse. I recently saw (in Sibelius No.1, I think) fff followed by a crescendo. I decided that (like much else about my playing) that was more than I could manage. Ralph Mazza ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bangs%40cet.com These dynamic markings are simply the composers' request for more defined levels of sound within the possible range. A fff followed by a crescendo tells the performer that fff does not mean as loud as possible. Carl Bangs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You just don't understand a thing about sound recording. Without a separate channel for each instrument, how can an engineer possibly make them sound like they're supposed to? All recordings would sound the same. Who'd by it if it isn't 'special'? Bill, certainly I didn't say that I want to *sell* my CD's. When I'll have recorded a sufficiently good performance, I'll give free copies to friends, maybe I'll put an mp3 version online. I said that sound quality and balance are good, and I do not see much of a need of an intervention by a sound engeneer. Do you really mean that all recordings would sound the same, were not for the engeneers? I think there is something more to music... Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording
Daniel Canarutto wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You just don't understand a thing about sound recording. Without a separate channel for each instrument, how can an engineer possibly make them sound like they're supposed to? [snip] Do you really mean that all recordings would sound the same, were not for the engeneers? I think there is something more to music... I think he's pulling your leg. At least I hope so. In the immortal words of Jerry Bruck, there are a lot of mistakes you can't make if you only use two microphones. More seriously, the aesthetic of classical music recording (make the records sound like the concerts) is exactly diametrically opposed to that of pop/rock recording (make the concerts sound like the records). Most people making their livings as recording engineers have experience only with the latter. I'd be just as much a fish out of water recording a rock or bluegrass band. Now for the important question: Can you adjust the recording level on your Sony minidisc machine without putting it in pause? Mine, several years old now, I like quite a lot, with the glaring exception of that. Which is why I bought a Sharp. Thanks. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording
Hi Jeremy, I agree with you. Call me a Luddite, but most of the best recordings were done with fewer rather than more microphones, using analogue systems. For example, check out the Mercury Living Presence recordings (now re-issued by Philips Classics Productions and available on CD) done in the late 50's and early 60's. These were recorded using only three Telefunken 201crystal (yup, that would be the older style quartz crystal) microphones to 35mm film running at 18 i.p.s. (inches per second) Those masters set a benchmark by which all other recordings have been judged. No filtering, equalization or compression of any kind. No digital mumbo-jumbo either; just pure, unadulterated sound. I recommend Tchaikovsky #4, London Symphony Orchestra, Antal Dorati conducting, recorded in June of 1960. (No. 434-373-2) Or, 1812 Overture-- if your stereo can handle it. They used real muskets as well as smoothbore cannons from the United States Military Academy at West Point. Now THAT recording will pin you to your couch! Best regards, Martin Bender On 16-Jul-06, at 2:21 PM, Jeremy Cucco wrote: Bill - I hope you were kidding in your post. Otherwise, I'm afraid it is in fact you who knows little of recording. Rarely are groups ever recorded nowadays with one mic per instrument. This was experimented with a lot in the 60s and 70s, but most of those recordings sound like utter crap. It is quite plausible and possible (and even done quite often) to capture entire orchestras with as few as 2 mics. (after all, you have 2 ears, right???) However, it's more common to use 4 to 8 microphones for a full symphony. For example, if an orchestra were to paly something like Brahms 4 in a good hall, I would use 2 mics as a main pair (probably Schoeps or Microtech Gefell) in an AB pattern, a pair of mics (also Schoeps or Gefell) as flanks roughly 3 meters off dead center. Then, I migh put a couple spot mics (probably of the ribbon variety) in the WW section and if I were recording for surround sound, I would fly a couple hall mics. Rarely are more mics than this needed but if they are, they are carefully chosen and sparingly placed. Some of the best chamber music recordings I've ever heard were done by a gentleman in Sydney who uses a single Royer SF24 microphone (stereo ribbon mic - very pricey). Just my $.02 worth. J. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 5:06 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Recording You just don't understand a thing about sound recording. Without a separate channel for each instrument, how can an engineer possibly make them sound like they're supposed to? All recordings would sound the same. Who'd by it if it isn't 'special'? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 1:11 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Recording I bought a Sony minidisk recorder (the sole cheap recording device I found at a local shop) and I'm quite satisfied. I recorded a concert of my wind octet and the sound is nice, the balance between the different instruments excellent. I could even issue a CD, were it not for a few mistakes ;-). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/embee%40magma.ca ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 43, Issue 20
I was taught that FFF means forte possible (within the very fragile bounds of control, balance, and musical taste). This obviously must be tempered by knowledge of the composer, the hall, the style of music and the requirements of the conductor. I have always thought that , f, crescendo after fff and other illogical dynamics indicate that the composer/arranger has experienced players and conductors who do not take fff seriously. It is also possible that we don't all mean the same thing when we write a dynamic :). Richard Smith www.rgsmithmusic.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carl Bangs wrote: Ralph Mazza wrote: Rachel Harvey asked (rhetorically, I think) how DO you play an FF and an FFF-and distinguish between the two? It gets worse. I recently saw (in Sibelius No.1, I think) fff followed by a crescendo. I decided that (like much else about my playing) that was more than I could manage. Ralph Mazza ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bangs%40cet.com These dynamic markings are simply the composers' request for more defined levels of sound within the possible range. A fff followed by a crescendo tells the performer that fff does not mean as loud as possible. Carl Bangs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/music%40rgsmithmusic.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording
We are approaching NHR territory here, but I am most surprised about film being the medium in the said fine recordings. When I went to school from 1954 trough 1966, video was not available. The Danish state had a pedagogical film-service covering especially historical, biological, and geographical themes, mostly in B/W. The medium was 16mm film, if my memory does not fail upon me. The sound was optical in form of a continuous white curved stripe running along the frames. I hated that sound for its shallowness. And I took that as the reason why optical sound had not been used in the recording industry already before WWII, when magnetic tape was not yet available. Back then recordings were made on a wax master. When I taught music at a college from 1970, I had a colleague, who was very much older than me. He had done a lot of dance music recordings before the war (even had been forced to play for the German army during the war including doing army recordings). He told, that whenever one of the 3 minute takes was done, complete silence was mandatory in the studio, while an engineer went over the groove with a magnifying glass to see, if a low frequency had been played so loudly, that the groove had splattered into the next or preceding round of itself. If so the score was revised, so that the double bass was taken up an octave at that point of the music. I wonder slightly, why engineers did not see the options on a wider format film recording, when the wax-method had these inherent hassles. You may know, that I can tell anecdotes without end, so I will slip in one very much opposite to the report from my older colleague: A very popular Danish dance band should record some tunes before the war. The engineer could hear a loud groan in his headset. Retake. Groan at same point of the music. Several retakes with the same problem. Then the band was ordered to play that musical passage over and over again, while the engineer walked around the studio being all ears. The double bass player had a very high note there. The poor man suffered from struma, so when he bent over the bass for that note, a groan was inevitable. When the engineer found the source of the groan, that note was taken down an octave. If one more anecdote may be allowed: The old wax recordings of full orchestras had problems in getting the double bass line. That lead to a very curious fact: The NYPO had a secret member, who did not play in the concerts, but only at the recording sessions. It was a phenomenal tuba player, who doubled the double basses. I have played bowed double bass myself, so when I became a tuba player late in my playing career, I played like a string bass. Not always very popular, as my attack was not considered being brutal enough. But the notes were there right on time, only I could play without transients. Of course a rant from the old days, please be forgiving. Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre --- Martin Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jeremy, I agree with you. Call me a Luddite, but most of the best recordings were done with fewer rather than more microphones, using analogue systems. For example, check out the Mercury Living Presence recordings (now re-issued by Philips Classics Productions and available on CD) done in the late 50's and early 60's. These were recorded using only three Telefunken 201crystal (yup, that would be the older style quartz crystal) microphones to 35mm film running at 18 i.p.s. (inches per second) Those masters set a benchmark by which all other recordings have been judged. No filtering, equalization or compression of any kind. No digital mumbo-jumbo either; just pure, unadulterated sound. I recommend Tchaikovsky #4, London Symphony Orchestra, Antal Dorati conducting, recorded in June of 1960. (No. 434-373-2) Or, 1812 Overture-- if your stereo can handle it. They used real muskets as well as smoothbore cannons from the United States Military Academy at West Point. Now THAT recording will pin you to your couch! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Dynamics and Tchaikowsky
A perusal of any Tchaikowsky score will reveal dynamics ranging from p to F. Unfortunately, novices and careless players will relish the thought of playing very strongly, to the point of making crass, unmusical sounds. Tchaikowsky uses dynamics differently than many other composers. Sometimes his strongest volume indications designate those sections of high impact and musical importance, rather than sheer volume. Also, a glance at the score will find dynamics univerally applied to all voices (at least many times) in tutti sections. However, for all instruments to play these tremendously loud, or soft, dynamics misses the point. In any ensemble, dynamics are relative. A competent musician will listen carefully (or do score study) to always know who has the melody. For instance, if the strings or winds have the melody and the brass have sustained notes or repeated rhythmic patters, these subsidiary parts must be adjusted in volume so that important lines are clearly defined. I have heard countless public school and university ensembles that exhibit poor balance because of the lack of critical listening. Tchaikowsky and Schumann are especially problematic with ensemble balance and clarity. Performers should always try to 'voice' themselves within the ensemble. Not all dynamics are created equal. While a FFF may be written, in actuality the true performed dynamic may be only mezzo-forte. Thus, all players should guard against overbalancing in ensembles. Especially when louder dynamics are indicated. As folks in Kentucky say, 'everything is relative.'* *No flames please. I grew up in KY! Sincerely, Dr. Eldon Matlick, Horn Professor, University of Oklahoma Principal Hornist, OK City Philharmonic 500 W Boyd Norman, OK 73019 (405) 325-4093 off. (405) 325-7574 fax Conn-Selmer Educational Artist http://ouhorns.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
NHR: Mercury Living Presence (was: Re: [Hornlist] Recording)
A couple of minor points. The Mercury Living Presence recordings were engineered by Robert Fine and produced first by Harold Lawrence and later by Wilma Cozart (later Wilma Cozart Fine). I'm pretty good friends with one of the Fines' sons. He has termed Michael Gray's survey of Mercury in The Absolute Sound (chasing down a citation is left as an exercise for the reader) pretty accurate. He has done extensive studies of his father's work. Martin Bender wrote: Hi Jeremy, I agree with you. Call me a Luddite, but most of the best recordings were done with fewer rather than more microphones, using analogue systems. For example, check out the Mercury Living Presence recordings (now re-issued by Philips Classics Productions and available on CD) done in the late 50's and early 60's. These were recorded using only three Telefunken 201crystal (yup, that would be the older style quartz crystal) microphones The 201's were made by Schoeps and, like the Telefunken U47 and several others, distributed by Telefunken. They are condenser microphones using the ubiquitous (and expensive--I just needed to replace one) AC701k tube. The earliest mono Living Presence recordings (e.g., Pictures at an Exhibition) used a single U47. Later, in stereo, they used a 201 for the center channel and Neumann KM56's for the outside mikes. When they had acquired enough 201's to have a few spares, they used a trio of 201's because Mrs. Fine thought they sounded best. Pictures at: http://www.schoepsclassics.de/1952.htm to 35mm film running at 18 i.p.s. (inches per second) The 35mm film recordings came later, after they acquired the Belock/Everest equipment. I don't remember the exact date. Most stereo Living Presence recordings were recorded on three track Ampex Model 300's. The Ampex 300 was the ubiquitous studio machine of the time. You can see a picture of a 300-3 (with Sel-Sync unit at the bottom of the overbridge) at: http://recordist.com/ampex/gif/300-3.gif Editing the 35mm film was a nightmare because splices have to align between sprocket holes. Those masters set a benchmark by which all other recordings have been judged. No filtering, equalization or compression of any kind. No argument here, at least among recordings you'll ever get to hear. No digital mumbo-jumbo either; just pure, unadulterated sound. I recommend Tchaikovsky #4, London Symphony Orchestra, Antal Dorati conducting, recorded in June of 1960. (No. 434-373-2) Or, 1812 Overture-- if your stereo can handle it. They used real muskets as well as smoothbore cannons from the United States Military Academy at West Point. Now THAT recording will pin you to your couch! Best regards, Martin Bender I'm bcc:-ing Mr. Mrs. Fine's son on this, who can tell me what I managed to get wrong, and I'll forward it to the list and eat my helping of crow. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording
Klaus Bjerre wrote: We are approaching NHR territory here, but I am most surprised about film being the medium in the said fine recordings. When I went to school from 1954 trough 1966, video was not available. The Danish state had a pedagogical film-service covering especially historical, biological, and geographical themes, mostly in B/W. The medium was 16mm film, if my memory does not fail upon me. The sound was optical in form of a continuous white curved stripe running along the frames. The 35mm film used on some Mercury (and, earlier, Everest) recordings was full-coat *magnetic* film. It wasn't an optical soundtrack, but recorded like magnetic tape. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Anecdotes (semi-NHR)
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Klaus Bjerre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may know, that I can tell anecdotes without end... Of course a rant from the old days, please be forgiving. Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre Hornlist - I must say, that although some people may find these kinds of anecdotes distracting and unneccessary, I find them really wonderful to read. As a high school senior, I love to hear about the old world of music, recording, etc., as I find it very inspiring and amazing to learn about a musical and technological world that I will never get to experience. Sometimes I glean bits of information that I find very helpful in my own playing, or I just pass such stories on to my section-mates, teacher, or family. I hope to be able to contribute such stories in the (very distant) future. Again, thanks for sharing these memories, stories, and thoughts. Ben Benjamin Reidhead [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poudre School District, Ft. Collins, Co. No opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. W. H. Auden (1907 - 1973) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Anecdotes (semi-NHR)
Benjamin Reidhead wrote: As a high school senior, I love to hear about the old world of music, recording, etc., as I find it very inspiring and amazing to learn about a musical and technological world that I will never get to experience. You shouldn't encourage us. g No opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. W. H. Auden (1907 - 1973) If you're quoting Auden, you will probably enjoy February House, by Sherill Tippins. This is actually horn-related: One of the people who lived in February House wrote a staple of the horn repertoire, and another of the residents sang (but, AFAIK, never played g) it. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: NHR: Mercury Living Presence (was: Re: [Hornlist] Recording)
Hi Howard, NHR-- Thanks for the clarifications, and the historical links. I stand corrected. Best regards, Martin Bender On 16-Jul-06, at 11:05 PM, Howard Sanner wrote: A couple of minor points. The Mercury Living Presence recordings were engineered by Robert Fine and produced first by Harold Lawrence and later by Wilma Cozart (later Wilma Cozart Fine). I'm pretty good friends with one of the Fines' sons. He has termed Michael Gray's survey of Mercury in The Absolute Sound (chasing down a citation is left as an exercise for the reader) pretty accurate. He has done extensive studies of his father's work. Martin Bender wrote: Hi Jeremy, I agree with you. Call me a Luddite, but most of the best recordings were done with fewer rather than more microphones, using analogue systems. For example, check out the Mercury Living Presence recordings (now re-issued by Philips Classics Productions and available on CD) done in the late 50's and early 60's. These were recorded using only three Telefunken 201crystal (yup, that would be the older style quartz crystal) microphones The 201's were made by Schoeps and, like the Telefunken U47 and several others, distributed by Telefunken. They are condenser microphones using the ubiquitous (and expensive--I just needed to replace one) AC701k tube. The earliest mono Living Presence recordings (e.g., Pictures at an Exhibition) used a single U47. Later, in stereo, they used a 201 for the center channel and Neumann KM56's for the outside mikes. When they had acquired enough 201's to have a few spares, they used a trio of 201's because Mrs. Fine thought they sounded best. Pictures at: http://www.schoepsclassics.de/1952.htm to 35mm film running at 18 i.p.s. (inches per second) The 35mm film recordings came later, after they acquired the Belock/Everest equipment. I don't remember the exact date. Most stereo Living Presence recordings were recorded on three track Ampex Model 300's. The Ampex 300 was the ubiquitous studio machine of the time. You can see a picture of a 300-3 (with Sel-Sync unit at the bottom of the overbridge) at: http://recordist.com/ampex/gif/300-3.gif Editing the 35mm film was a nightmare because splices have to align between sprocket holes. Those masters set a benchmark by which all other recordings have been judged. No filtering, equalization or compression of any kind. No argument here, at least among recordings you'll ever get to hear. No digital mumbo-jumbo either; just pure, unadulterated sound. I recommend Tchaikovsky #4, London Symphony Orchestra, Antal Dorati conducting, recorded in June of 1960. (No. 434-373-2) Or, 1812 Overture-- if your stereo can handle it. They used real muskets as well as smoothbore cannons from the United States Military Academy at West Point. Now THAT recording will pin you to your couch! Best regards, Martin Bender I'm bcc:-ing Mr. Mrs. Fine's son on this, who can tell me what I managed to get wrong, and I'll forward it to the list and eat my helping of crow. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/embee%40magma.ca ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Erik Hauser
Does anyone on this list know anything about Erik Hauser who wrote the Foundation to French Horn Playing? Just curious. Richard Smith www.rgsmithmusic.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
