[Hornlist] High Low
Since Hans is on the move in NE Thailand with his family now, it could take a while to hear from him directly on this matter. This is just my impression (I cannot possibly speak on his behalf), but I think what Hans preaches perfectly makes sense. Listen to those “stratospheric” jazz trumpeters while they practice, for example. It has been almost axiom for them to consciously practice the pedal range repeatedly, in order to improve their ultra-high notes. Assuming that they use an ordinary Bb Trumpet for the job (unlike our symphonic Tpt colleagues, I don’t think any of them would bother to bring a C, D, G, A/Bb Piccolo or whatever to the session), their so-called “strato” range roughly corresponds to our normal (albeit high) octave of 8th-16th overtones. I am not surprised if there’s some similarity in the physical principles of both worlds. Why don’t we seek some advice next time we come close to those jazzmen who need no help of Full-Triple Trumpets for climbing high? JY in Bangkok ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Siegfriedruf
I think if you will re-read all of the message for LT in full you'll note his comment you cited were meant tongue-in-cheek (Bill Gross). Bill, LT's intended meaning is not what prompted the response, but his actual text: the myth that Wagner wrote the Siegfried Call for Franz Strauss is an ingrained one that keeps on turning up on all sorts of forums. If a future horn student does a Google search for Wagner and Franz Strauss they could well end up with LT's comment, and the tongue in cheek aspect won't necessarily be understood. Hans and I tossed in amendments so that they might also be on the record. Some of us value the hornlist for a chance to air opinions or feelings that cross our minds. This is a fine thing. I value it for the verifiable facts that increase my knowledge of the instrument. Also a fine thing. Bill Melton Hauset (B) / Sinfonie Orchester Aachen (D) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Re: Recording (long)
Linda writes: Now I'm trying to research mics but am at a loss. I don't know anything about the technologies and am not sure of what specs to look for to record in a range of situations--from horn alone to full orchestra. The standard college-level text on recording is John Eargle's Handbook of Recording Engineering. There are at least four editions, from 1986-2003. For your purposes any edition will be equally good. You can skip the math and cut straight to the discussion of microphone placement for various purposes. Nothing much has changed in that area of audio since Blumlein's stereo patents of 1932 or so and the Bell Labs experiments of about the same time. Since your PMD 671 has 48V phantom power (and we'll assume--and hope--it meets the DIN standard and actually puts out 48V @ 10mA), I'd suggest you get some condenser microphones. I recently bought a pair of Behringer B-5's, and, so far, like them quite a bit. (Ask me after Aug. 13, when I should have a chance to try them on demanding material--an organ--in a good hall, not to mention compare them to the high priced spread, which is what we're going to use for the real recording.) I got mine for $70 apiece from Midwest Stereo: http://www.midweststereo.com/catalog/Screen=PRODProduct_Code=BEHB5Category_Code= They have both omnidirectional (picks up sound from all directions) and cardioid (picks up sound only from the front in sort of a heart-shaped pattern--the name comes from the same root that gives us cardiology, et al.) capsules. So far I think they are pretty neutral sounding. Get a pair of Audio-Technica AT8410 clothespin shockmounts (see http://www.fullcompass.com/product/304073.html) to mount them; they *will* pick up feedback from movements on the stage through the stands without them. QD rules of thumb ways to record things: Spaced omnis: For large groups like orchestras or bands, divide the group in thirds with the mike stands. Alternatively, put a microphone even with the concertmaster and whoever's on the RH side in the analogous position (principal 2nd fiddle? principal cello?). For small groups like string quartets, woodwind quintets, soloists with piano, or even small orchestras, place the stands 16-20 apart. Start with them three feet back from the ensemble. Move closer if there's too much room sound; move backward if whatever you're recording is too in your face. Adjust according to your (or the client's!) taste; there's no other right or wrong about it. See http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=122 Cardioids: Get an AKG stereo bar (see http://www.fullcompass.com/product/299818.html) and mount them in a near-coincident array (ORTF or NOS). ORTF spaces the capsules 7 apart and splays them outward 110 degrees. See http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=128 NOS uses 30cm (about 12) and 90 degrees. See http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=125 In both cases you can eyeball the distance and angle unless you're making the recording for French or Netherlands radio. With cardioids I'd start with the mikes 6-8 feet back from the performers, and then adjust according to taste as with omnis. For omnis you'll need a pair of Atlas MS-10 microphone stands (see http://www.fullcompass.com/product/298536.html) or equivalent. You can get extensions for the MS-10's that will get them up around 8-10 feet high. I don't have the patience to navigate through Full Compass's web site in order to find them. In most cases you'll probably want the mikes as high as you can get them, but as with placement, experimentation is A Good Thing. All the microphones mentioned in this post are light enough to use on an MS-10 without worrying about the stand falling over from the weight. I think the Behringers sound better (esp. in cardioid) than the other often-recommended cheap condensers, the Oktava MK-012. They also cost less, and, if you don't like them, you aren't out a lot. The sky's the limit with microphones. A stereo pair of some models will cost as much as a new car, and a stereo pair of ELA-M 251's will cost as much as a very nice new car. Lawsons, Lewises, et al., are cheap by comparison g. The last thing you'll need is cables, lengths that total two 100 foot lengths (e.g., four 25 foot lengths) with XLR connectors on each end. I suggest star quad (Canare L4-E6S or suchlike) in orange (for visibility). Unless your time is worthless and you like the frustration of working with shielded cable, buy them. I can get you the name of a place that will build them to your exact specs. (Can't remember the name offhand.) Overview of stereo techniques: http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=131 Great book on how microphones work and why they work that way (cited in Eargle and just about every other book on recording): http://www.neumann.com/download.php?download=docu0002.PDF My leading suggestion for one-size-fits-all,
[Hornlist] Re: High Low
Hi JY in Bangkok, Thanks for your post. I am not necessarily challenging the wisdom that low practice helps high playing. I agree that a lot of very successful high players use low playing to work on their high register. Your scream trumpet example is right on the money. My question surrounds what the lesson to take away from low playing is. It seems that the scream trumpet players maybe aren't just trying to get the best low playing they can, and then automatically get an increase in high register performance. Maybe that is the case. Or maybe there is something specific they are focusing on that really helps bring sophistication, dependability, strength, etc. to their high register. I think Steve Freides pointed out a couple valuable things -- there is a great deal of air control required for low playing, plus a certain amount of relaxed, controlled tension. I certainly feel more in control of my tension when I'm playing low, like I have it in the right places and none of the wrong places, whereas I generally just squeeze everything I've got when I'm trying to play high :) So in fact I think I will start focusing on how I get the correct tension when I'm playing low. But I wonder if I could go even further in having smart, focused practice and awareness. Ideas? Regards, Marc Assuming that they use an ordinary Bb Trumpet for the job (unlike our symphonic Tpt colleagues, I don$B!G(Bt think any of them would bother to bring a C, D, G, A/Bb Piccolo or whatever to the session), their so-called $B!H(Bstrato$B!I(B range roughly corresponds to our normal (albeit high) octave of 8th-16th overtones. I am not surprised if there$B!G(Bs some similarity in the physical principles of both worlds. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
Please, please, please don't rely on Google to find out information about recording orchestras and horns... There is so MUCH bad information floating around on the net, it's hard to sort out the good from the band and the ugly! If you're looking for a place to ask some genuine questions about recording acoustic music, please check out Recording.org and look under their Acoustic Music Forum. You will find a myriad of professional musicians roaming about that site offering advice. My advice for mics would be: Try them before you buy them. If the store won't let you do this (or offer a good return policy), don't deal with that store. There are plenty of other good stores out there that will allow you to do this. When you start talking about microphone choice, it comes down to far more than just brand. You must also determine your pick-up pattern (for example, cardioid, omni, figure 8, etc) as well as your mic placement. You could have the greatest mics in the world, but if you don't place them correctly, you will still get horrible sounds. A good site to learn from would be: www.dpamicrophones.com They have a Microphone University which explains the various pick-up patterns and placement options. (Be aware though, they're in the business of selling microphones - their microphones to be specific. And while DPA microphones are among the best in the world, you don't necessarily need THEIR mics to do what you see pictured on their pages.) As for mics which I recommend, I will break them down into rough price categories - (BTW - almost all of the mics you'll see listed here are what are known as small-diaphragm microphones. Large diaphragm microphones have a bit more sex appeal in the studio, but have little to no place recording orchestras. They are often far too colorful. There are exceptions, but those usually have a very large price-tag.) Inexpensive ($500USD per pair) ~ *Rode NT5 (comes as matched pair and sound halfway decent.) *AT 4040 (cardioid - must use XY, ORTF or NOS for best pickup) *Studio Projects C4 (cheap matched pair) Moderate ($500-$1000 USD Pair) *AT 4051 - available in Cardioid or Omni - full of options *Josephson C42 MP - VERY nice matched pair of cardioid microphones *AKG Blueline - available in omni, fig 8, cardioid - a very nice set of microphones. Can be found often on EBay for this price point. I use these often in recording orchestras as spot microphones or for operatic vocal pick-up) *Earthworks - many models available at this price point. All quite good, but you need a decent preamp to fully appreciate these. High to Extremely high-priced ($1000 USD per pair to much, much higher) *Schoeps CMC 6 - MK2 (S or H), MK4, MK21, MK8 - some of my favorite. Very expensive, but very nice. I use these as most of my primary mics for orchestra. Chances are, if you're in an orchestra which has been professionally recorded, these mics were used. *Gefell M296, M295 - Also very nice. These are my second favorite mics. Very, very natural and clean. Very sensitive! *Gefell M300 - less expensive than the M296 or M295 but VERY nice. Comparable to the venerable Neumann KM84. *Sennheiser MKH series - also quite pricey but very nice. A favorite (along with Schoeps) of Telarc and other famous recording companies. I personally much prefer the accurate sounds of the Schoeps and Gefell to the warmer more euphoric sounds of the Sennheisers. *DPA - Expensive but as accurate as a mic gets. They also have a new budget line which falls into the middle category above, but I have yet to try them so I can't give any recommendations. *Earthworks - the high-end earthworks mics are quite good, but I would prefer almost every mic mentioned here so far in comparison. I find these to be too clinically accurate and often quite boring. *Royer - Ribbon mics. Glorious, warm accurate sound but be prepared to spend 2 hours setting up your mic to find the right placement. Otherwise, expect poor recordings (specifically the SF12 and SF24 stereo ribbon mics.) For all of you who are microphone savvy and are surprised at my obvious omission of perhaps the most famous microphone company, Neumann - this omission was intentional. I find most of the Neumann microphones of today to be flawed, overpriced and hyped. For the REAL Neumann heritage, check out Gefell mics. They maintain the original manufacturing techniques of Herr Neumann himself and not the newer techniques introduced by Sennheiser since their not too recent purchase. All of the mics mentioned above are freely available from places such as: Sweetwater Atlas Pro Audio Mercenary Pro Audio (I'm not on payroll for any of these companies - they are all just places from which I've purchased gear and been immensely pleased.) Hope this helps a little. Enjoy the addicting habit of recording! Jeremy
[Hornlist] Low range to high range.
Passing from the low range in arpeggios to the high range in patterns such as the Farkas warm-up, will teach the chops to move into the high register relaxed. It may take a few weeks of the right kind of practice, or years Only with a proper teacher and many lessons will one learn how to fail... to fail to learn how NOT to play in the High range. While working in the negative is not my personal style of teaching, for the high range, you must learn how not to do it, as so many players waste so much energy trying to get high notes. Stop trying so hard. Many people have known the feeling of starting out the day with no warm-up and trying to play some mid-high range passage and feeling tight, lack of breath support and a pinched sound. This is part of the reason why we work from the bottom up. Unless I have a week of only very high horn, I may not use a complete low range warm up, but most orchestral music needs about three SOLID octaves. Just these past few years my high range has become indestructible. This has happened after years of hard work and starting with a very good high range, with a great performing low range. I always could play the normal high horn works easily and well, but now the extreme works are mostly easy and the standard are easier than ever. Extreme works like, JS Bach Cantata 105 ( herr, gehe nicht ins gericht) Domenica 9 post Trinitas; enjoy music, Matthew Scheffelman Assistant Professor of Horn Colorado State University, Fort Collins __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: High Low
If you don't ever practice low to the point of fatigue, you will
probably notice that when you do, your embouchure will feel very tired
in places that it normally doesn't. This suggests that playing low
exercises muscles that normally are not exercised. Strengthening these
muscles has to have a good effect on playing high; the strengthened
muscles ought to provide more support for your current high chops.
You can bombard your low chops effectively by practicing Kopprasch and
others one octave down. As I may have metaphored here long ago, playing
rapid 16th notes in the lower register is a little like hiking through
deep mud. Good exercise.
--
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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