Re: [Hornlist] A favor to ask you all
Changing a student's embouchure at music college doesn't always mean he has been badly taught before going to college. At a music college I know there was one teacher who was notorious for changing embouchures as a matter of course. I was talking to some friends and mentioned that one of my ex-students had gone to this college and was being taught by this player - in chorus my friends finished my sentence - ...and he changed his embouchure. Sorry - rushing - I'm at work and have just been called away All the best, Lawrence ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Hoyer serial numbers from the GDR and post-GDR eras
Are there any web sources for dating Hoyer horns? Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Was language, now flame war
Manfred is a symphony by Tschaikowsky. It is op.58 from 1885. = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:15 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Was language, now flame war At 5:06 PM -0500 11/17/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will you pay travel expenses? Minimum stay one week, since I have 14 horns to work on. I'll foot the bill for the most expensive bus line here, ETN. Their busses have only 29 seats in three columns with the isle to the right of the left column, looking toward the front of the bus. Most comfortable. If yes, I'll be there at about 11.00 A.M. or P.M.? If the latter, bring a ME for the PM. My fire extinguishers are ready to go, should we start a fire with one of the required torches. I just finished a concert in Aguascalientes - Schumann Manfred Over., Strauss 4 Last, Tschaikovsky Manfredo, which nobody seems to know if it's a ballet or a symphony. Nice playing, especially the excellent strings, which I always enjoy. C -- Carlberg Jones Skype - carlbergbmug Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] A favor to ask you all
Hello Lawrence, yes, you are right. There are plenty teachers out there, who do not even look on to a students embouchure carefully enough, but insist for a change, a change to an embouchure of their own idea (teacher) to fit everybodys mouth lips. There is just ONE right horn embouchure, but with many light variations according to the anatomy of the player. The principles are most clear: Centered mpc set into the flesh of the lower lip near to the edge of the red flesh so to pull open the blow hole in the center, typical brass player face or mask, not crawling into the mouthpiece, lip under control in all playing regions, relaxed as possible, minimum of vertical pressure against the lips (depending on range dynamics), keeping the blow hole open as possible. One has to see the variables move within these boundaries until the desired result will be achieved, preset the targets or expectations are not exaggerated. The bad teacher forces the student to do just everything after his advice precisely no matter of the different anatomy, instead of adjusting the things or correcting bad habits. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:19 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] A favor to ask you all Changing a student's embouchure at music college doesn't always mean he has been badly taught before going to college. At a music college I know there was one teacher who was notorious for changing embouchures as a matter of course. I was talking to some friends and mentioned that one of my ex-students had gone to this college and was being taught by this player - in chorus my friends finished my sentence - ...and he changed his embouchure. Sorry - rushing - I'm at work and have just been called away All the best, Lawrence ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Age and horn playing
I'd like to thank those who forwarded some interesting comments and suggestions as a result of my query. There are a number I will try. Of course, not too surprisingly, the main thing I need to do is not to get too impatient and continue to work and practice. FWIW, I practice much more willingly and frequently than I did when I was younger. Like Arthur Rubinstein said (not that I presume to be in his league!): If I miss a day of practice, I can tell; if I miss a second day, my wife can tell; if I miss a third day, the audience can tell!. There is no question I have improved over the last two years, but I am nowhere near where I used to be nor where I want to be! Perhaps in time (if I have enough left!)... Thanks, again, from an old horn player... Tom -- Thomas M. Spillman, Jr. Asst. Professor (retired) Information Technology MBA Program School of Management St. Edward's University Austin, TX ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Hoyer serial numbers from the GDR and post-GDR eras
I suggest eHarmoy.com Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 7:43 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Hoyer serial numbers from the GDR and post-GDR eras Are there any web sources for dating Hoyer horns? Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brassartsunlim%40aol.com Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] A favor to ask you all
Hi, ... more fyi J ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] A favor to ask you all
Hi ALL, Sorry for the fyi email to the group ... should have been a private email. Regards,Jerry in Kansas City ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: A favor to ask you all
On Nov 18, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: message: 9 date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:58:08 -0800 from: Scott Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] A favor to ask you all Hi everybody, I have a former student who is attending a well known music school. She is going through an embouchure change and her life is no fun right now. She is depressed and I have cheered her up all I can. What I would like, if you would indulge me, is to collect as many stories as I can from people who have had to face tough situations and have come out well and happy. Horn related stories are best, but I'll take everything. Thank you in advance. Please send the stories directly to me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] scottito Hey Scott, I know i will be seeing you tonight in the pit, but I thought this would be a good chance to relate the end of a small story I started a few weeks back. I think others can get some encouragement from this as well as your former student. About a year and a half ago I took on the task of fixing the embouchure of a young man, only a freshman in high school at the time. One of my former students brought him to me when she heard (and saw) him playing at a coaching session for chamber music. His musicianship and desire were evident to everyone, but she felt his embouchure was holding him back. Well, when I saw him I knew that she had done the right thing. He was so far pushed up and into his upper lip that it hurt him to play up high. I mean it really it hurt. Also his tone was airy and he couldn't move around well on the horn at all because the upper lip was pinned. Amazingly enough, though, his lower lip was set up correctly. Still, it was the worst embouchure I had seen in some time. To give a little more background, you should all realize that this young man comes from a family of farm workers- a broken home- where his normal life would have included living in a small house with 2 other families. He has no money and is constantly approached by gang members. There's more but the important thing is that he has been taken under the wing of a teacher of his who has become his virtual mother. She and her husband also saw Lolo's potential and decided to do something about it. He is a great kid- smart, polite and extremely gifted as a musician. We can all be happy that here is one who was saved from a potentially terrible fate. So we worked for about a year on the problem. It might have been a shorter process, but his former teacher wanted him not to change. We basically had to start from scratch and Lolo had a lot of bad habits associated with his pressure oriented playing techniques. This was a hard decision for Lolo, but he finally chose to put all his efforts into the change. (This is a hard decision for many students who have achieved a certain level of success at a young age. It is hard for them to understand what they could really do if they honed their technique to its highest level, and all the old wives' tales about embouchure changes not being possible don't help, either.) Last spring he made a CD for use with potential scholarships and auditions. It was simple enough, just the first 2 parts of the Saint- Saens Concertpiece and the Mozart 1. This was to accommodate his range, which was, at that time, just up to Fs and Gs. My belief is that you should always pick pieces that show you off well and that the audience will like, regardless of your level of playing (but that is another subject). I was encouraged that the man who did the engineering for the CD, came up to me at a concert that evening and said, That kid Lolo can sure play. I mean he doesn't just play notes, he plays phrases and has beautiful releases- everything. I told him the story. So recently, after having started this story in a post about me perhaps being too dogmatic about pedagogy, which I won't repeat now, I got word of one of the results of the CD. (I think in that thread I mentioned that Lolo had learned how to lip trill in one week and how well he gets around on the horn now.) Lolo has won a scholarship from the NPR show From the Top. He will be playing on the show sometime in 2007 and will receive a $10,000 award for lessons and a new horn. Awesome! So sometimes there are happy endings, or beginnings. For Lolo this is just the beginning, but now at least he does have a beginning. He has the stuff to be a great player, and that is what he wants to do- his way out of his circumstances- but he also has the stuff to succeed in anything he might want to do. This wasn't easy for him- or me for that matter, but it is paying off, big time. Look for Lolo Vallecillo on NPR. So Scott, tell your former student that part of life is change and that change is not easy sometimes. Life isn't easy sometimes but hard work will be rewarded. The good news is that there is more out there with the right tools to make it
Re: [Hornlist] Re: A favor to ask you all
Not knowing what kind of change your student is making, I will relate this story for what it's worth. During my first lesson with my major teacher in college, he said the embouchure seems to be working OK. Let's not fool with it. His (a classic einisetz) was clearly working better than mine so I undertook a change on my own. Every day during my warm up and whenever I thought of it during practice and rehearsal, I would just move the mouthpiece up enough to have a sense of more upper lip than usual in the mouthpiece. After a couple of months, I had the lower rim set nicely inside the lip, had a sound that I much preferred to the old one, and had experienced few problems during the adjustment. Now, 30 some years later, that change is a distant memory but I have always been glad I made the change. Young folks often can only see a few months into the future. Tell your student she has many years left to play. A little short term frustration should be followed by years of satisfaction. In addition, she'll probably understand the embouchure much better when the process is complete. Richard Smith www.rgsmithmusic.com Hi everybody, I have a former student who is attending a well known music school. She is going through an embouchure change and her life is no fun right now. She is depressed and I have cheered her up all I can. What I would like, if you would indulge me, is to collect as many stories as I can from people who have had to face tough situations and have come out well and happy. Horn related stories are best, but I'll take everything. Thank you in advance. Please send the stories directly to me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] scottito ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: A favor to ask you all
I too went through an embouchure change, in between my junior and senior year of college. I played in the red of my upper lip before that and did really well that way, but Clevenger, at a master class, convinced me to move the mouthpiece up some. Basically I figured it all out myself from that point onwards - I worked on it everyday during that summer for 3 hours/day and things seemed to have turned out pretty well since then... B Bob Ward Acting Principal Horn San Francisco Symphony http://www.rnward.com On Nov 18, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Richard Smith wrote: Hi everybody, I have a former student who is attending a well known music school. She is going through an embouchure change and her life is no fun right now. She is depressed and I have cheered her up all I can. What I would like, if you would indulge me, is to collect as many stories as I can from people who have had to face tough situations and have come out well and happy. Horn related stories are best, but I'll take everything. Thank you in advance. Please send the stories directly to me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] scottito ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles
Since the irritation levels among the members are high at this time, I thought this would be a good time to bring this subject up. This is an issue for composers/arrangers and for music directors to discuss. I wasn't a music major, so I hope to get some advice from those of you who are educated in music composition/arranging and in music conducting. It pertains to wind ensembles and church orchestras where saxophones are incorporated. Often the alto sax parts and the horn parts are the same. While occasionally, a discriminating composer/arranger may want this particular blend of sound, I suspect these parts are put together for other compromising reasons such as: a) composer inability to score different lines for these instruments; b) composer laziness; c) necessity or practically concerns for having saxes cover when horns are not available or are incapable. Then, what is the responsibility of the conductor for selecting the appropriate instrumentation for the ensemble IF there are sufficient and capable horns available for playing the alto lines? If particular music pieces are best orchestrated for horns, is it the responsibility of the conductor to adjust the instrumentation to achieve the desired sound? The proper adjustment could involve asking the sax players to blend, to play softly, or to drop out; or to tell the horns to drop out. Generally, the horn sound and the sax sound are not compatible. It seems obvious to many of us horn players what is the best course of action, so I'm asking composers/arrangers and asking music directors what their views are regarding the interaction of alto saxes and horns. Larry Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $310k for $999/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles
I believe, but can really base on anything other than observation, that your c) is the most likely explanation. But since I don't fall into any of the classes on folks your were asking, it's probably best to just ignore my answer. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Jellison Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:16 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles Since the irritation levels among the members are high at this time, I thought this would be a good time to bring this subject up. This is an issue for composers/arrangers and for music directors to discuss. I wasn't a music major, so I hope to get some advice from those of you who are educated in music composition/arranging and in music conducting. It pertains to wind ensembles and church orchestras where saxophones are incorporated. Often the alto sax parts and the horn parts are the same. While occasionally, a discriminating composer/arranger may want this particular blend of sound, I suspect these parts are put together for other compromising reasons such as: a) composer inability to score different lines for these instruments; b) composer laziness; c) necessity or practically concerns for having saxes cover when horns are not available or are incapable. Then, what is the responsibility of the conductor for selecting the appropriate instrumentation for the ensemble IF there are sufficient and capable horns available for playing the alto lines? If particular music pieces are best orchestrated for horns, is it the responsibility of the conductor to adjust the instrumentation to achieve the desired sound? The proper adjustment could involve asking the sax players to blend, to play softly, or to drop out; or to tell the horns to drop out. Generally, the horn sound and the sax sound are not compatible. It seems obvious to many of us horn players what is the best course of action, so I'm asking composers/arrangers and asking music directors what their views are regarding the interaction of alto saxes and horns. Larry Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $310k for $999/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles
I've dealt frequently with this problem. In writing for a concert band, the problem is that, wanted or not, you have to write for saxes if you want your music played. It is very impractical to just leave them out as you would an unneeded instrument in a piece written for an orchestra. Constant doubling is simply unimaginative scoring and writing generic alto lines rather than real horn or sax parts is usually boring. One of my band pieces uses the saxes to cue other (mostly woodwind) voices that may be missing. The instruction to the director is to tell the saxes to blend and not stand out. I have also suggested that, if possible and the instrumentation of the band permits, the piece be played without saxes. Another solution is to remember that saxes are woodwinds and treat them as such. Experiment with unusual sounds and voicings in the sax and woodwind sections. In church music, the challenge is different. Many churches have mostly volunteer instrumentalists of varying degrees of ability. The arranger must always have practical matters in mind when writing. Leaving the saxes out may be OK. Using saxes and horns interchangeably is not. Writing for horns should be horn writing, not generic alto writing. My solution: Find a core group of required instruments (I use the brass), add optional parts that help if present but do not detract if absent and use synthesizer(s), organ, and piano to cover for missing optional parts as needed. This allows music to be played with a small group but expanded as resources are available. If you want to see how this might work, visit my web site (www.rgsmithmusic.com) and look at some of the music. In particular see the band piece Soli Deo Gloria and the series of church music pieces using brass and synthesizers (Rex Aeternus Sovereign Lord) Hope this helps Richard Smith www.rgsmithmusic.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Larry Jellison wrote: Since the irritation levels among the members are high at this time, I thought this would be a good time to bring this subject up. This is an issue for composers/arrangers and for music directors to discuss. I wasn't a music major, so I hope to get some advice from those of you who are educated in music composition/arranging and in music conducting. It pertains to wind ensembles and church orchestras where saxophones are incorporated. Often the alto sax parts and the horn parts are the same. While occasionally, a discriminating composer/arranger may want this particular blend of sound, I suspect these parts are put together for other compromising reasons such as: a) composer inability to score different lines for these instruments; b) composer laziness; c) necessity or practically concerns for having saxes cover when horns are not available or are incapable. Then, what is the responsibility of the conductor for selecting the appropriate instrumentation for the ensemble IF there are sufficient and capable horns available for playing the alto lines? If particular music pieces are best orchestrated for horns, is it the responsibility of the conductor to adjust the instrumentation to achieve the desired sound? The proper adjustment could involve asking the sax players to blend, to play softly, or to drop out; or to tell the horns to drop out. Generally, the horn sound and the sax sound are not compatible. It seems obvious to many of us horn players what is the best course of action, so I'm asking composers/arrangers and asking music directors what their views are regarding the interaction of alto saxes and horns. Larry Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $310k for $999/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/music%40rgsmithmusic.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles
--- Larry Jellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It pertains to wind ensembles and church orchestras where saxophones are incorporated. I understand Larrys way of thinking, even if I do not necessarily agree with him in all matters. From my general correspondence with American musicians I understand, that US sax players generally play in a very rough rock-inspired style. This is not the case over here, where sax-players with a smooth classical sound are quite common. When I during a rehearsal in our best wind band suddenly heard myself (on 4th horn) playing perfectly in unisono with the dark toned silver belled tenor sax, then I took it as a positive experience. When we at a distance of 10+ meters could blend and be in tune, then it could not be based on unilateral musicianship. Counterpoint is fine, but there only are so many lines, which can be perceived at the same time. If a large tutti calls for me to play in unisono with the saxes, then I often will find that more engaging than just playing long notes or off-beats. I never protested playing in octaves with the 1st violins, when playing in an orchestra. But then all-tutti pieces like marches get boring if overdosed. A diversified and varied instrumentation always is more ear-catching. You mention church orchestras, which are one of my main interests both as a player and as a conductor. The landscape of churches is much more varied in the US, than in my country. Still some US denominations carry on a musical tradition rooted in Europe. I probably could hear from the music alone, whether a service over here is Catholic or Protestant, but the common denominators are prevailing. Actually I find the Catholic Bavarian hymns closer to the Danish ones than the British ones, which are kind of foreign to my ears. The shared European hymn tradition basically is four part. If a church orchestra has full sections of all wind instruments, then some unisonos cannot be avoided. The artistry of the director is to treat the ensemble as a set of organ stops and create an interesting and varied soundscape. I wouldnt want to repeat the alto voice ten times over anyway. I could write endlessly on this topic, but I will end daring to tell about my project of presenting Danish hymns. I use modular instrumentation consisting of 9 compatible 4-tet scores (one of them for horn 4-tet), which can be combined from a basic mixed quartet through a full band or a full orchestra. In one of the instructional texts I discuss the theme of a varied sound. My extended signature says: My download homepage has a link for the index of all my uploaded music files. You can download them for free, when I have received your reply to my Welcome-mail. Players already approved for the group in question of course have direct access. Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre of Denmark Retired teacher Index over 45MB+ of free music files in .pdf format to be found in the Files area of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterBBb/ (Approved membership required) Index over 2.3GB of brass instruments galleries and catalogue scans to be found in the Files area of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterPublicPhotosIII/ (Membership is open for all) Sponsored Link $200,000 mortgage for $660/ mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt - http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles
In my Concerto for Horn and Concert Band, I decided to turn the band horn player's bete noire into a musical joke, and so there are several places where the principal alto sax is featured as a foil to the solo horn. Oddly enough, so far only horn players have gotten the joke. On the topic of band scoring in general, particularly if you are transcribing a piece originally written for orchestra, it works out that an alto sax solo stands out in relation to the sound of the band tutti in much the same way that an oboe solo stands out in relation to an orchestral tutti (provided that the solo passage lies in the range shared by both instruments). This is useful to know, since good oboe players are usually rarer than good saxophone players in community bands (at least in the US). Emory Waters In a message dated 11/18/2006 4:17:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Often the alto sax parts and the horn parts are the same. While occasionally, a discriminating composer/arranger may want this particular blend of sound, I suspect these parts are put together for other compromising reasons such as: a) composer inability to score different lines for these instruments; b) composer laziness; c) necessity or practically concerns for having saxes cover when horns are not available or are incapable. Then, what is the responsibility of the conductor for selecting the appropriate instrumentation for the ensemble IF there are sufficient and capable horns available for playing the alto lines? If particular music pieces are best orchestrated for horns, is it the responsibility of the conductor to adjust the instrumentation to achieve the desired sound? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn-Saxophone composition principles
Emory Waters: In my Concerto for Horn and Concert Band, I decided to turn the band horn player's bete noire into a musical joke, and so there are several places where the principal alto sax is featured as a foil to the solo horn. Oddly enough, so far only horn players have gotten the joke. Is there any chance of hearing this concerto? Does it exist as an MP3 file somewhere? David Lamb in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
