RE: [Hornlist] stopped horn
Hello Rebecca, it all depends on the size of your hand & the size of the bell. To get a better result for the "few occasions" playing stopped very low - it is rarely in prominent voice - use a wooden mute, lift it a bit & play with an edgy sound. You will be heard better, intonation is much better, you will gain self confidence for this task. After experimenting a bit, you will find it the best way. Nobody will ask you, how you produce the required sounds, they just listen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reba McLaurin Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:59 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] stopped horn Is there any way I can make the stopping more secure in the lower register? It tends to sound more like a bassoon than a horn down there. > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sallym.of.mcl aurin%40gm > ail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole
If the horn is laid on the chair upside down, means valvesection top touching the chair surface, lead pipe pointing to the "lean" of the chair, there is less chance that the bell touches the surface of the chair or the edge of it & thus be damaged on this fragile neck of the bell flair. The lead pipe is also better protected. Today, a micro fibre towel of neutral color should be at hand not just for whiping off finger prints from the horn, but also to be put between chair surface & horn, to prevent scratches. Just the way I do with my horns. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Beeker Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:41 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole My two cents worth of almost totally unfounded conjecture. Perhaps it is from the slipping and sliding of the horn when being placed on a hard bottom chair? How often do we do this when we take a break between student or practice sessions, never mind on stage in the concert hall. Dan Beeker Least Principled Horn BSO message: 2 date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:57:12 -0400 from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the list. I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and wonder. If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be. For instance, I just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 (o'clock). Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and holding the horn with it. Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and these are often horns that were played by people with very good professional jobs. So, was there a hand position used in the "old days" that I don't know about? Anybody remember something that their teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it? The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out! - Steve Mumford - ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] stopped horn
Is there any way I can make the stopping more secure in the lower register? It tends to sound more like a bassoon than a horn down there. On 8/10/07, hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do not care about this. "Stopped horn" sounds somewhat > "comical", so these "children" in the orchestras tend to > lookk for the player, children, who do not understand the > "stopped horn". Many orchestras consist of a bunch of > "children" (mentally children). > > You have to live with this fact. > > PS: Perhaps you do exaggerate the "stopping" where it should > be most decent ??? > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Reba McLaurin > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 4:49 AM > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: [Hornlist] stopped horn > > Whenever I play stopped horn in orchestra everyone turns > around and glares at me. Especially if it's a low exposed > passage. How can I stop this? > Reba > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. > de > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sallym.of.mclaurin%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole
Steve, In the 30s, 40s, and 50s, there was (so far as I know) a tendency to play with a darker sound and with contact at 9:00 and loosely open at 3:00. Also, many people hold the horn free now, but a long time ago, it almost always rested on the thigh--you can't easily hold it free at 9:00. I have a Geyer (built in 1938 or 39) that went through many many seasons at the CSO--it was Wedgewood's (who was my teacher) and which had a patch at 8:00 when I got it, and which bell had gotten so thin at the area of 9:00 that on Steve Lewis' recommendation I had the entire interior of the bell silver plated. Was there any difference in sound? None that I could detect. Shel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 10:57 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the list. I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and wonder. If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be. For instance, I just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 (o'clock). Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and holding the horn with it. Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and these are often horns that were played by people with very good professional jobs. So, was there a hand position used in the "old days" that I don't know about? Anybody remember something that their teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it? The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/skirshner%40ameritech.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Pedagogical Tools
On Aug 10, 2007, at 6:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: message: 5 date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:22:59 +0100 from: "Jonathan West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Pedagogical Tools Interestingly, your point about E being flat rather goes against the idea suggested recently here by Steve Burg (The "Student Question" thread) that you should play on the F side from second-line G downwards. Not far below that changeover point you get to the flat open E on the F side and the notes down to C# that are based on the same harmonic. The fact that these notes are flat seems to me to be good reason not to make F/Bb changeover as a matter of course, in addition to the other points I made against the idea at the time. Would you agree? As it happens, when tuning at the start of a rehearsal, I tend to play either a B or a fourth-space E when tuning to A, in order to play a note that is higher in the register and therefore can't be bent so easily. Regards Jonathan West Hi Jonathan (and all), Thank you for responding in a clear and courteous way. I was hoping you wouldn't take what i said personally or in a bad way, and you didn't. We do agree on just about everything but maybe this conversation will help others think about what they post. As far as using F horn goes, I have gone in practically all the possible ways, aside from playing everything on high f horn, in my career. When i was in high school I played practically everything on Bb horn because i studied with a trumpet player- a great teacher- who liked to find alternate fingerings. I still use (and teach) some of the fingerings we worked out on Strauss 2 (and other pieces), and these included all F as well as all Bb fingerings on very difficult passages. Much of my time in San Jose Symphony was spent using a Bb/f Paxman with an XL bell and a low f extension for my little finger. If you think your 3rd finger is weak, try to get your 4th finger into the fray! I loved that horn and no one suspected that it wasn't a full double. Great for stand-up solo playing. This came after using a single F horn in grade school- doing most of the first Kopprasch book and the 1st Pottag excerpt book- and now I'm back on a regular double with an L bell Paxman Bb/f descant in reserve. If you ever see my DVDs you will notice that i use a lot of different fingerings and have warmups for both F and Bb horn alone. There are a lot of issues to consider. Often times i just think it is better to stay on one horn or the other to facilitate certain passages- not just for fingerings, but for tone, intonation or feel. For students who have double horns, I'm old fashioned enough to want them to establish a "chosen" fingering set that would include the notes you mention on F horn. (Actually there is more to it than that- like establishing a set fingering pattern because it facilitates learning and clarity of purpose in the brain.) I think it is important for students to learn to adjust these notes or any other notes that need it and the tone is nice. The Bb side in this register has very wide slots and can sound honky without due care. Learning first on the F side is better in my opinion. Also, the C#, as a two valve (sharp) fingering, doesn't suffer much from this flat harmonic so we are really only talking about three notes, depending how the slides are pulled. After mastering the "chosen" set, players should be encouraged to try, and use, alternate fingerings when appropriate. As long as you can play in tune with a good sound (that matches your other notes), there is nothing wrong, and a lot of things right, with using alternate fingerings. In my book I recommend exactly what you said for tuning to concert A. Use B or upper E, especially if you haven't pulled the second valve slide out too far to compensate for T12 notes, which i don't recommend. But that is another story, in my book. For those of you who are interested, my fingering "chart" (really much more) is on the Samples page on my website. Sincerely, Wendell Rider For information about my book, "Real World Horn Playing", the DVD and Regular and Internet Horn Lessons go to my website: http:// www.wendellworld.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole
My two cents worth of almost totally unfounded conjecture. Perhaps it is from the slipping and sliding of the horn when being placed on a hard bottom chair? How often do we do this when we take a break between student or practice sessions, never mind on stage in the concert hall. Dan Beeker Least Principled Horn BSO message: 2 date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:57:12 -0400 from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the list. I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and wonder. If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be. For instance, I just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 (o'clock). Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and holding the horn with it. Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and these are often horns that were played by people with very good professional jobs. So, was there a hand position used in the "old days" that I don't know about? Anybody remember something that their teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it? The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out! - Steve Mumford - ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing
Singing and buzzing are integral parts of all my lessons. I don't even care to debate the merits or lack thereof regarding the musculature involved, to me it's simply about the ear. Pitch is crucial for both of these as well as tone. A good tone while singing and buzzing almost always equates to a good sound with good air support on the horn. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mathew James Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:40 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing I can second the concept Of sing and buzz. This summer working with Fergus McWilliam he pushed a concept of his the McWilliam four step... you sing it, intonation pitch and everything correct. After one masters that you whistle (or do the blowing thing that those who cant whistle do =P.) Same rules apply. Flowed by buzzing it. same rules Than we add the horn to the mouthpiece and buzz it like we whistled it like we sung it, and believe me, you know instantly and we watched person after person prove the theory. It works. It was like Fergus told me, "that little hole, is your portal to another world" I support buzzing! Mat On 8/6/07, Johnson, Timothy A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "If you have a horn available to play, then I see little use in > mouthpiece buzzing." - Jonathan West > > With respect, I would submit that there are some uses for mouthpiece > buzzing - particularly for younger and amateur horn players. > > There is a tendency I have observed, to play somewhat approximately - > without having a clear concept of the pitch in mind - letting the horn > force the right pitch (more or less) with its harmonic series. While > this works passably well in the lower to middle range, it is full of > danger in the higher ranges where one will find many pitches close > together. This is not from lack of ability, though. It may be > laziness, or simply lack of understanding, but when most players > listen to a piece, they can identify poor intonation, and if asked to > sing the same piece, will be able to do so quite readily and > accurately (I'm not talking "Queen of the Night" Aria here). > > Removing the horn with its harmonic crutch from the equation while > buzzing the mouthpiece does a couple things. It will enable the > player to focus on the pitch without other technical distractions. If > you can hear the pitch, you can play it. If you can't hear it, it > will be obvious. Buzzing can also clear up problems with too much > pressure or tension. > > I have seen Bernhard Scully use this in a master class to > significantly improve the playing of an already quite talented > performer. I have used it myself to help my two sons (one Horn, the > other Trumpet) with their playing. When they are having trouble with > a particular passage, I will have them stop playing and take a moment > to first sing it. If they can't sing it, then they don't know the > music and are just guessing. We stop to learn what it should sound > like - then, play the piece with just mouthpiece, taking care to keep > the pitch as accurate as possible. After that is accomplished, we go > back to the instrument. I find that this significantly improves their > playing. > > Timothy A. Johnson > > -Original Message- > From: Jonathan West > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:43 AM > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] What should I be doing in the practice room? > > If you have a horn available to play, then I see little use in > mouthpiece buzzing. As far as I'm concerned, mouthpiece buzzing is of > limited use, basically to try to keep your lip in where you can't play > the horn itself > because it would disturb your neighbors, or because you are travelling > and > cannot take the horn with you. > > But if those situations don't apply, then I think it better to spend > your time actually practicing the horn. > > Regards > Jonathan West > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornboy101%40gmail.com > -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jeremy%40sublymerecords.c om No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release Date: 8/9/2007 2:44 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release Date: 8/9/2007 2:44 PM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing
I can second the concept Of sing and buzz. This summer working with Fergus McWilliam he pushed a concept of his the McWilliam four step... you sing it, intonation pitch and everything correct. After one masters that you whistle (or do the blowing thing that those who cant whistle do =P.) Same rules apply. Flowed by buzzing it. same rules Than we add the horn to the mouthpiece and buzz it like we whistled it like we sung it, and believe me, you know instantly and we watched person after person prove the theory. It works. It was like Fergus told me, "that little hole, is your portal to another world" I support buzzing! Mat On 8/6/07, Johnson, Timothy A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "If you have a horn available to play, then I see little use in > mouthpiece buzzing." - Jonathan West > > With respect, I would submit that there are some uses for mouthpiece > buzzing - particularly for younger and amateur horn players. > > There is a tendency I have observed, to play somewhat approximately - > without having a clear concept of the pitch in mind - letting the horn > force the right pitch (more or less) with its harmonic series. While > this works passably well in the lower to middle range, it is full of > danger in the higher ranges where one will find many pitches close > together. This is not from lack of ability, though. It may be > laziness, or simply lack of understanding, but when most players listen > to a piece, they can identify poor intonation, and if asked to sing the > same piece, will be able to do so quite readily and accurately (I'm not > talking "Queen of the Night" Aria here). > > Removing the horn with its harmonic crutch from the equation while > buzzing the mouthpiece does a couple things. It will enable the player > to focus on the pitch without other technical distractions. If you can > hear the pitch, you can play it. If you can't hear it, it will be > obvious. Buzzing can also clear up problems with too much pressure or > tension. > > I have seen Bernhard Scully use this in a master class to significantly > improve the playing of an already quite talented performer. I have used > it myself to help my two sons (one Horn, the other Trumpet) with their > playing. When they are having trouble with a particular passage, I will > have them stop playing and take a moment to first sing it. If they > can't sing it, then they don't know the music and are just guessing. We > stop to learn what it should sound like - then, play the piece with just > mouthpiece, taking care to keep the pitch as accurate as possible. > After that is accomplished, we go back to the instrument. I find that > this significantly improves their playing. > > Timothy A. Johnson > > -Original Message- > From: Jonathan West > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:43 AM > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] What should I be doing in the practice room? > > If you have a horn available to play, then I see little use in > mouthpiece > buzzing. As far as I'm concerned, mouthpiece buzzing is of limited use, > basically to try to keep your lip in where you can't play the horn > itself > because it would disturb your neighbors, or because you are travelling > and > cannot take the horn with you. > > But if those situations don't apply, then I think it better to spend > your > time actually practicing the horn. > > Regards > Jonathan West > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornboy101%40gmail.com > -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole
I'm not quite 60 (getting close, though!), but as a beginner in 7th grade, I was taught to put my right hand in the bell, palm up, touching more or less between 8:00 and 10:00, so wear at 9:30 wouldn't be a surprise. (but then, my band teacher was a bassoonist...) Kjellrun On 10-Aug-07, at 1:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the list. I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and wonder. If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be. For instance, I just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 (o'clock). Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and holding the horn with it. Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and these are often horns that were played by people with very good professional jobs. So, was there a hand position used in the "old days" that I don't know about? Anybody remember something that their teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it? The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hestekin%40mun.ca ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole
I modified my hand position after I began studying with a horn teacher. When I began, I held my thumb on the near side of the bell. It seemed to be the position of choice in my high school band in 1941. I think we all covered a bit more back then 66 years ago. The new, and present position is more open. Paul Mansur On Aug 10, 2007, at 11:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the list. I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and wonder. If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be. For instance, I just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 (o'clock). Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and holding the horn with it. Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and these are often horns that were played by people with very good professional jobs. So, was there a hand position used in the "old days" that I don't know about? Anybody remember something that their teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it? The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole
Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the list. I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and wonder. If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be. For instance, I just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 (o'clock). Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and holding the horn with it. Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and these are often horns that were played by people with very good professional jobs. So, was there a hand position used in the "old days" that I don't know about? Anybody remember something that their teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it? The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Mouthpiece buzzing
Old saying: Why do bees buzz? You'd buzz too if somebody stole your honey and necked 'er. Gotta go, Richard Hirsh, not Cabbage ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Flight case
I thought I'd add one last bit to this and then let it go - For those of you who aren't looking for a "carry-on" solution but something that can be safely checked and stowed (for those of you who tour often and are on a plane almost every other day), there are a couple solutions. Many folks use the Anvil brand cases for this but they are VERY heavy and quite bulky. However, Pelican offers a line of cases which is very lightweight, very rugged and you can find a case the right size to fit your horn. I buy my Pelicans from B&H Photo Video (www.bhphotovideo.com) since they seem to have the cheapest prices on them. They come with a "pick-and-pluck" foam or naked (no foam at all). I would advise against the P&P foam as it crumbles easy and it's not terribly shock resistant. Instead, there's another company - CaseCad (www.casecad.com) - which will make custom laser cut foam which is a medium density foam and which doesn't flake and get in your valves and on your slides like the P&P foam would. All told, you could get a case and a custom cut insert to securely hold and lock up your horn for around $400-$500. I have no affiliation with any of these companies - I just trust their work implicitly! I carry around 1 case which contains nearly $40,000 of microphones and it's a Pelican with CaseCAD inserts and I wouldn't trade it for the world! One little side benefit - the Pelicans are water tight and buoyant up to a certain weight (more weight than the horn would ever be). That way if the plane goes down over sea, you'll have something to do until the rescue team arrives. Cheers! Jeremy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release Date: 8/9/2007 2:44 PM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
