RE: [Hornlist] Leadpipes?
Well said, Doug - as always! Sandra Clark ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Ligetti
Hi all , can anyone tell me how the %^*$!! can I turn pages in the Ligetti trio ?the guy forgot that we use two hands ! Alon ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Ligetti
At 3:20 PM +0200 12/1/07, Alon reuven wrote: Hi all , can anyone tell me how the %^*$!! can I turn pages in the Ligetti trio ?the guy forgot that we use two hands ! I don't know about this particular piece, but I played in a woodwind quintet for a couple of years and made my own parts for every piece we played, avoiding all rapid page turns. sometimes by physical cut and paste, sometimes by scanning and cut and paste. Page turns are always a problem. For me, the ugliest and the worst is when the parts are originally perfect, but some lame-brain librarian has copied them with the odd pages on the left instead of the right, which makes it easy on the eyes to go from left page to right page, but then every page turn is only possible gymnastically. -- Carlberg Jones Skype - carlbergbmug Cornista - Orquesta Sinfónica de Aguascalientes Aguascalientes, Ags. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Ligetti
Last time I played it, I used a page turner... On Dec 1, 2007, at 5:20 AM, Alon reuven wrote: Hi all , can anyone tell me how the %^*$!! can I turn pages in the Ligetti trio ?the guy forgot that we use two hands ! Alon ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/rnward%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: leadpipes
Eva, you kind of glossed right over the more significant part of making that 179 play better. I tend to forget that people are trying out these replacement leadpipes on old worn out horns with leaky valves and tuning slides. Sure the FB-210 is a fine pipe, but I guarantee, the valve rebuild is what made the horn play. Putting a fine new leadpipe on a worn, leaky horn is just buzzing into the wind. Here's an experiment for everyone. Buy a new custom horn. Get something nice, something between maybe 8 to 12,000 dollars. Take an electric drill and drill 4 big holes in it. Now you have the effect of having 4 leaky valves. Buy several good custom leadpipes and try them on the horn. Now put some tape over the holes and try the original pipe. Which is better? Years ago I sold a horn to a fellow. I never really liked the horn very much, but he loved it, and for years he raved about how it was the best horn he owned. Of course it was. It was the only one he owned that didn't have leaky valves! - Steve Mumford Eva wrote: Many years ago, when I was a 'wee horn-playing lass', I had a Holton 179, which was a total dog. However, it was dramatically improved and made into a really fine horn by putting a Lawson FB-210 (if memory serves--it was many years ago) lead pipe on it. Of course it had a valve rebuild too. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut
Horn in C. Sarah Hogan 2nd Horn State of Mexico Symphony Orchestra What key is that? It was handed out this AM. The conductor doesn't have a full score and the rest of us were at a loss. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut
Corno in Ut is Horn in C. from page 73 of Farkas' The Art of French Horn Playing. Phil Jacobs - Original Message From: Bill Gross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2007 12:10:27 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut What key is that? It was handed out this AM. The conductor doesn't have a full score and the rest of us were at a loss. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/plj59%40yahoo.com Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut
Thanks - I will start taking Farkas to practice regularly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip Jacobs Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:28 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut Corno in Ut is Horn in C. from page 73 of Farkas' The Art of French Horn Playing. Phil Jacobs - Original Message From: Bill Gross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2007 12:10:27 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut What key is that? It was handed out this AM. The conductor doesn't have a full score and the rest of us were at a loss. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/plj59%40yahoo.com Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Corno in Ut
What key is that? It was handed out this AM. The conductor doesn't have a full score and the rest of us were at a loss. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Corno in Ut
Ut is the key of C. Paul Mansur On Dec 1, 2007, at 1:10 PM, Bill Gross wrote: What key is that? It was handed out this AM. The conductor doesn't have a full score and the rest of us were at a loss. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Kruspe Code Addendum
I forgot to include this link in my last posting. It's a later Kruspe catalogue, I think, that illustrates the horns, but without the model numbers (with one exception). There are also a couple of additional horn models shown: http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicHall-Horn/2569/kruspe/krusp.html It's a Japanese site, and when you get to the horn pages, you'll need to click on the underlined phrase at the bottom of the page (it's indecipherable on my screen) to get to the next page. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: Playing softly (was: [Hornlist] Rims, Chops, Airstreams (was C series
Hello Howard, It has to do with your air pressure/air volume ratio. Loud=lots of volume+lots of pressure. Soft=little volume+lots of pressure, sometimes even more than in F. That's about all I can explain here. As I've mentioned to you, you should come to camp and I'll help you with this. KB Howard S. wrote: Kendall Betts writes: always BTSOOI (Blow The Stuff (polite translation) Out Of It) keeping the resistance of the equipment consistent throughout the note and dynamic ranges. I know this sounds simple, and in a way it is. This may sound--and be--simple to some, but not to me. What, exactly, does one do to play softly? If one blows the crap out of it, the dynamic will just be loud. There has to be *some* difference in what one does physically when one is playing loud and soft. I've heard Louis Stout's blow loud but play soft admonition. I've even heard Stout do it in person. So that had some meaning for him, and he was able to implement it. I've heard Wendell Rider's explanation and demonstration on his DVD of keeping the air going and just letting your body naturally play softly when that's what you want to do. (His body is natural in ways mine isn't. g) I've heard about thinking of the air stream as a thread and stringing the notes on it like pearls. I've heard about picking a spot on the floor, sighting down the leadpipe, and focusing the air stream on it. And probably some other metaphors that don't come to mind tonight. However, Ideally, your face should not feel tense/tight in any register and if you BTSOOI and get the instrument responding properly, it won't, assuming you practice properly for a reasonable amount of time on a daily basis. I've never come close to this, and I do practice several hours nearly every day. (Maybe properly is the problem? What is properly?) I do think that, at least for myself, using a lot of air--making the air do as much, and the chops as little of the work as I can--makes my playing better any way you care to define better. But controlled soft playing?! So the question is: What's different--chops, tongue, air, gut, pressure, jaw, whatever--between loud and soft? There has to be some difference, and someone, somewhere, must be able to codify it. For the record, I believe in paralysis by analysis to the same degree I believe in miracles: not at all. I believe that careful, thorough analysis is how we learn and improve. Maybe that's because my job is, for practical purposes, analysis, but there it is anyway. Thanks for any light anyone can shed. Howard Mr. Frustration Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] somewhat NHR: Blindrohr?
Thanks for the clear explanation of Blindrohr. As usual, I was making things more complicated than they are! Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre wrote: If you could send me a digital copy or a scan of the said photo, I would like to have a look at it. This was in a book I was cataloging at work. (After 26 years of doing everything else, I'm now actually involved professionally with material in my field!) I admit I did not read the German text closely. Anyway, as a result, I can't send you a scan because we have no scanner! The book is a publication of Verena Jakobsen Barth's dissertation, entitled Die Trompete als Soloinstrument in der Kunstmusik Europas seit 1900. Goteborg: Goteborgs Universitet, c2007. ISBN 9789185974030. If you search this at http://catalog.loc.gov, you'll see that it's still in process, but the record is complete except for the call no. for the book and accompanying sound recording. (And if you see a typo, it's my fault--and please let me know!) Thanks again. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Leadpipes
Good point, Ken! That's precisely why we offer a 30 day trial period with our leadpipes. In the past year, I've made and sent out pipes for Conn 8D's, Holton 179 and 180, Alex 103, Berg, Kruspe, Atkinson, Paxman, Jiracek and Yamaha 667V and 668 horns. All types of players, too, from amateurs through serious students through professionals in major orchestras both in the US and abroad. Only one was returned from a Conn player who said she figured out her problems were more with her playing and not with her instrument. KB Ken Pope writes: One thing I have learned for certain in this business is that there are no definites. One man's trash is sometimes another man's treasure - and the same is true for leadpipes. The only way to tell for certain if a pipe (by ANY maker) is going to be better for your horn is to try it. All the claims by makers and players about the way certain pipes play refer only to THAT players experience (or THAT maker's claim). Sincerely Ken Pope **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: leadpipes
Steve, you forgot to mention trying the good, custom leadpipes on the really expensive but ruined horn after you tape up the holes. I certainly agree that a valve job is the first step in improving an instrument, if the valves are shot. It might not be the only step, though. KB Steve Mumford writes: Eva, you kind of glossed right over the more significant part of making that 179 play better. I tend to forget that people are trying out these replacement leadpipes on old worn out horns with leaky valves and tuning slides. Sure the FB-210 is a fine pipe, but I guarantee, the valve rebuild is what made the horn play. Putting a fine new leadpipe on a worn, leaky horn is just buzzing into the wind. Here's an experiment for everyone. Buy a new custom horn. Get something nice, something between maybe 8 to 12,000 dollars. Take an electric drill and drill 4 big holes in it. Now you have the effect of having 4 leaky valves. Buy several good custom leadpipes and try them on the horn. Now put some tape over the holes and try the original pipe. Which is better? Years ago I sold a horn to a fellow. I never really liked the horn very much, but he loved it, and for years he raved about how it was the best horn he owned. Of course it was. It was the only one he owned that didn't have leaky valves! - Steve Mumford Eva wrote: Many years ago, when I was a 'wee horn-playing lass', I had a Holton 179, which was a total dog. However, it was dramatically improved and made into a really fine horn by putting a Lawson FB-210 (if memory serves--it was many years ago) lead pipe on it. Of course it had a valve rebuild too. **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] soft playing
Agreed, we can suffer paralysis by analysis, and the bodily coordinations necessary for achieving a reliable technique on the instrument must become unconcious, but perhaps there are intellectual understandings that can be helpful. Also, we all learn differently. I remember as a young player (with my C-1 mouthpiece:) ) I LOVED to play loudly and hated when we would play Mozart and had to play even high-G piano. In fact, I remember we thought that composers who wrote soft and high for the horn just didn't get what was great about the instrument:) It was always easier to play softer higher on my C-12, but I couldn't get as fat a sound and it would edge sooner. Perhaps examining why smaller equipment would make soft playing easier provides a clue. The most important thing to remember is that what one is doing on a brass instrument is causing a standing wave to arise in the instrument. As I understand it the standing wave is both radiating out of the instrument's bell and also reflecting back toward the player. It is the relative strength of this reflected wave that accounts for the sensation of resistance. The lips, rather than making a sound or buzzing are actually opening and closing like louvers at the frequency of the pitch being produced. (There were strobe photo films taken of Montreal Symphony players on clear lucite mouthpieces a number of years ago that proved this.) The most efficient playing occurs when the air speed, volume and pressure, lip contraction and reflected wave are in equillibrium for the desired pitch and volume. If one chooses very deep or large-bore mouthpiece equipment, or a very large bell throat, or both, one reduces the strength of the reflected wave, the reflected wave acting to some degree as support for the lips. This means that the lip contraction has to do more of the work to resist the tendency of the lips to prolapse into the mouthpiece. I remember my soft playing used to be a stifled forte. I came to realize that soft playing requires a smaller lip opening and less air volume and pressure. Nowadays I try to think of releasing the mouthpiece pressure when going from forte to piano to facilitate the contraction of the lip opening, which in piano (and in the upper range) is much smaller than the diameter of the mouthpiece rim. Taking into account that everything is a compromise, if one doesn't have the strongest chops in the world, or the practice time needed to maintain an extremely robust embouchure, choosing equipment that favors a stronger reflected wave can make the lower dynamics easier. There will be a sacrifice of fatness and darkness especially in the local environment (i.e. what you hear right out of the bell). That said, there are many leading players who use smaller mouthpiece equipment and horns who are capable of playing amazing orchestral fortissimi, but their setups don't blow freely and there can be a fair amount of noise in the sound if you listen to what's coming out of the bell. However this noise does not carry into the hall, the listener hears a virile sound with a tremendous amount of core. Respectfully submitted, Douglas Lundeen Assoc. Prof. of Horn Rutgers University www.brassrootstrio.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Ligetti
Hi all , can anyone tell me how the %^*$!! can I turn pages in the Ligetti trio ?the guy forgot that we use two hands ! Alon Hello, I've never played it and probably never will, but I attended a concert where it was played by a famous hornist. He had made photocopies and glued the sheets into a strip, which he put on two stands. I immagine that it could be considered more or less legal, as long as you have the originals with you. I can't say it's the kind of music I prefer, but I had the impression that the piece was tremendously difficult. Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Ligetti
Photocopy the following page and place the photocopy on the stand next to the first page to which you refer. No page turn is then needed. Carlisle On Dec 1, 2007, at 8:20 AM, Alon reuven wrote: Hi all , can anyone tell me how the %^*$!! can I turn pages in the Ligetti trio ?the guy forgot that we use two hands ! Alon ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/ options/horn/clandel%40roadrunner.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
