Re: [Hornlist] Horn/Brass in China
Good luck. Much information that you would seek got destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. (I assume you refer to Western style Brass instruments judging from your reference to the film. Much documentation exists on indigenous or ethnic lip-blown aerophones) You will almost certainly find nothing written or documented, even in personal diaries, on the subject you have chosen although you may run across expatriates that may recollect useful tidbits and stories. You ought to consider contacting the Horn teachers at the major conservatories in China whereby those that speak English can tell what they know from what got handed down by word of mouth. You must choose your questions very carefully when inquiring about Chinese history in the 20th Century as it has a propensity for revisionism. I seem to remember the Canadian Brass and the Boston Symphony having forays into China during the 1970's. Perhaps some members from those touring groups can offer tiny clues for you as to the status and training of brass playing in China during the 1970s and 80s. And, as you seem to know, Doug Hill as well. I also expect Hans Pizka to pipe in even as I reply at this very second since he has visited China numerous times as a performer and instructor and certainly has plenty to say on anything he has had personal involvement with. You will need to address China accordingly to their political phases in the 20th Century as that has a particularly profound influence upon the arts and education. No doubt the English had a primary influence in the southern areas while the Russians and Japanese influenced the north. Germans had an influence as well prior to the Boxer Rebellion but I have never heard of their cultural influence upon China save Christian Missionaries. You have a very interesting subject but expect many dead ends and red herrings. Historical research on the influence of western culture on China flies in the face of the most recent trend in research that would prove that everything from discovering the American continent to constructing flush toilets happened first in China then spread to the rest of the world; your topic has an undercurrent that goes against this recent paradigm in publications concerning China. Brace yourself. Karl Kemm Assistant Professor of Horn and Humanities Del Mar College 361 698-1601 [o] 940 300-3131 [m] http://www.delmar.edu/music/kemm.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Feb 21, 2006, at 3:49 PM, Joshua Cheuvront wrote: Okay, here's a question for you scholars out there, especially those of you who know a lot about Chinese history during the last century. I'm currently attempting to find some sources which address the introduction of brass instruments, especially horn, into China. Unfortunately, I've come up empty-handed so far. There just doesn't seem to be any research out there, at least not in English. I sent an email to Doug Hill last night, figuring he'd be able to point me in the right direction, but I know that many of you on the list have experience/knowledge as well. In case anyone is interested, this all came about as a result of a discussion I had with my instructor for a class on contemporary Chinese music. I used to have a Bruce Lee film on VHS that began with a scene in which a small ensemble is playing during a funeral ritual ceremony. As I remember, there was a Tuba, trombone, and maybe even a horn in the group. When I mentioned this to my instructor, who is originally from China, she said she had never heard of brass instruments being used in ritual music. I'd like to do a research paper on the introduction of brass instruments into China, and hopefully focus on their use in ritual ensembles. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Josh___ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] trompe de chasse
Dr. Hrdy, Good to hear from you again after so many years (playing our trompes at the San Francisco Polo Tournament in '93). A few years ago I had gotten the original string (quartet) parts for Michel Corrette's Concerto in C from Richard Seraphinoff. I had intended to transcribe it into Finale for the purpose of making the work transposable into any key but lost the music while loaning it out (to an infernal violinist!) before I made copies. That composition would have worked perfectly for your workshop - sorry it doesn't exist at the moment. The JJ Mouret Symphonie de Chasse in D also comes to mind as an easily accessible work but only in terms of playing it. (It requires strings, oboes, and continuo.) Finding the printed music will prove most difficult for all these works in the trompe genre. You may have better success locating arrangements of St. Hubert's Mass of which most if not all will require organ. I recommend the Handel Sonata (in D) for one horn and two clarinets (or violins) available through King and others (PR) as something that works very well. I once performed it in C with the clarinets reading off the violin music. Works written for solo trompe can easily have an improvised, at the horn fifth, second part added as in the Corrette Concerto. Consider contacting the folks at Perinet (see their web site) since they deal with some sheet music. Lowell Greer may find your predicament of interest - he seems to have an exhaustive knowledge of the trompe repertoire. As a last ditch effort you could adapt alphorn music, readily available through McCoy, to the trompe - transposition becomes an issue with alphorn music normally pitched in F, F#, or G. Sorry I can't help you much. Perhaps those involved in the AHS (American Hunting-Horn Society) can help you more. I can only sit around in Corpus Christi feeling sorry for my self and all my lonely trompes because I have nobody down here to play them with me. :.( Good luck, Karl Kemm Assistant Professor of Horn and Humanities Del Mar College 361 698-1601 [o] 940 300-3131 [m] http://www.delmar.edu/music/kemm.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 16, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Daniel B. Hrdy wrote: I have two trompe de chasse (french hunting horns) pitched in D. I would like to use one or both trompe in an upcoming chamber music workshop (for strings and woodwinds including horn). Does anyone know of any music that would work for this? It could be originally written for trompe de chasse or an adaptation of another piece. Dan Hrdy Winters, CA, USA ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Alternate Tuning Slides
As for E horn: May I suggest an alternative temporary solution you can experiment with? I remember having exceptional difficulty with the infamous La Gaza Ladra solo back in the days when I used to complain about my terrible finger technique instead of just fixing it by learning my E scale and arpeggios. My quick fix for that excerpt: 1 - Remove the 3rd valve slide on the Bb side. (toss it aside – you won’t need it.) 2 - Remove the 2nd valve slide on the F side and insert it into the 3rd valve all the way in. 3 - Push your main tuning slide in to compensate for the slightly too long 2nd valve, now transplanted into the 3rd valve Bb side slide housing. 4 - Slam your 3rd finger down (and thumb) and forget about it. (This puts the horn in A.) 5 - Read the excerpt without transposing it using Bb fingerings (1st valve for G). (This will not work with dual bore horns obviously.) Since this excerpt and almost all transposing horn parts never require you to play a pitch four half-steps below an open fingering (like low Ab between the 3rd and 4th overtones) you only ever need your first two fingers. You can experiment with other reconfigurations of slide switching for ease of finger movement. I also came up with an easy fingering but complicated valve arrangement for the nasty chromatic 4th Horn/Viola soli in Daphnis et Chloe. I used to pat myself on the back for the clever ways I evaded having to learn finger technique; now I pat myself on the back, a chagrined, for having finally developed respectable finger technique albeit 20 years later. Karl Kemm Assistant Professor of Horn and Humanities Del Mar College 361 698-1601 [o] 940 300-3131 [m] http://www.delmar.edu/music/kemm.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Aug 14, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Eldon Matlick wrote: To the reader who asked a question regarding getting additional tuning slides for your instrument. Most of the time you can contact someone directly at the company and special order one. However, you may have to supply a tracing of your leadpipe and receiving tube in order to get a perfect fit. To those that do not understand why this question was asked, I'll give you my experience. I always have an auxilary main tuning slide for my doubles. It has additional tubing in order to bring the Bb side of the horn down to A. Then, I cross tune the horn, pulling the F side out to bring it down to E. Thus I have an E/A horn. This makes all those E solos much easier (just play the notes without transposition). This is NOT cheating. In fact a long time ago when I play for Herman Baumann in a master class, he was very appreciative of the fact that people do this. The E crook has a decidedly different color. It is very warm and dark. The increased length of the tube makes the instrument play differently. Lastly, it takes a while to get your internal pitch to adjust to pitches 1/2 step lower. However, I do love the sound and when you perform the Auf dem Strom with this, the sound is glorious. If you listen to my CD, you will hear this on the Schubert. As a caveat, one should first learn materials by transposition. Then, go ahead and use the alternate tuning crook should you desire. There are certain applicable orchestra situations where you could apply this (La Gazza Ladra, Midsummer Night's 'Nocturne'), but one should watch that this doesn't become a total crutch. It is more for convenience in solo work. There have been instances in which a hornist has forgotten to take the crook on stage and had to play using the usual transposition method. If used in an orchestral setting, it does affect your pitch within the section, so more work is necessary to bring forth a satisfactory result. Thus, using this special crook has advantages and disadvantages. If you use it judiciously, it can be a powerful musical aid to the performer. Sincerely, Eldon Matlick Dr. Eldon Matlick, Horn Professor, University of Oklahoma Principal Hornist, OK City Philharmonic 500 W Boyd Norman, OK 73019 (405) 325-4093 off. (405) 325-7574 fax Conn-Selmer Educational Artist http://ouhorns.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Horn for sale
A horn has come into my possession that I would like to sell. This Pizka model Ganter HeGa-Classic) is about 4 years old and in pristine condition. The previous owner took exceptional care of it. It has had a leadpipe modification and two sonic cleanings by Ken Pope. The new models sell for about €8,580.00 (Euros) equivalent to about $7,098.00 (USD). This one I have priced at $5,380.00. If you have questions concerning the playing qualities please feel free to contact me. I will gladly supply pictures upon request. Karl Kemm (940) 300-3131 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Karl Kemm Horn and Humanities Del Mar College Corpus Christi, TX (361) 698-1601 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Favorite obscure pieces for horn
I like the following obscure works: Concerto in d minor by Saverio Mercadante (really a Siciliana and Polacca ending in F major) (very Romantic Siciliana, cute Polacca, not unreasonably difficult, I need to have learned Kopprasch better to do the ending a justice) (7:00) The Elusive White Roebuck by Kay Gardner (nice mood, moderate difficulty, idiomatic themes, some low stopped horn effects) (5:00) Alpine Suite by Glen Spring (pleasant piece, fairly easy) (4:30) Fantsie Heroique by Heinrich Gottwald (typical Romantic tripe if not almost a caricature of Romantic solo works, fun and bold) (6:45) What Did You Do Today at Jeffy's House by Peter Schickele (requires some high range flexibility, great jazzy ending) (6:30) Serenade de Printemps by Pierre Gabaye (fairly accessible Paris type work) (2:40) Not very obscure but should get more playtime works: Concerto in Eb by Anton Teyber (one of my favorites ? very difficult high stuff but well written) Andante Polacca by Kuhlau (Sonata style work with typical fragmented sonata themes, stylistically fun) Sonatine Op75a by Bertold Hummel (very accessible work, clever construction and themes) And, I agree with others that have mentioned the following: Sonata by David Gwilt En Irlande by Eugene Bozza Karl Kemm Del Mar College Horn Humanities ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Lavigne dates
Does anyone familiar with French Hunting Horn composers know if the Lavigne listed in the Tyndare-Gruyer Methode Complete de Trompe de Chasse as the composer of La Noisy and Souvenir de Vincennes happens to be the oboist and Bohm ring key innovator Antoine-Joseph Lavigne (1816-86)? Sorry to bother yall about something as mundane as a composer's dates but I have very limited resources (no Fetis or Eitner) at my disposal. The dates seem correct but I remain skeptical about believing an oboist would write trompe de chasse tunes without me finding corroborating or suggestive evidence that he may have done that sort of thing. Karl Kemm Horn and Humanities Del Mar College Corpus Christi, TX [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fitzpatrick book
I thought most people owned the 142 page photo copy edition and only libraries owned a real one. I started looking in 1982 for that book and long since gave up. I resigned to spending just under $15.00 and the good part of an hour with a Xerox machine making my own as apparently several other folks have done. Oxford Univ. Press really blew it when they discontinued its publication. They could have made thousands of dollars profit over the last two decades on this the premier source/reference book for Horn research. I wonder why they never considered re-publishing it. I wonder why IHS hasn't tried to obtain the rights to publish it. I personally refer to it at least twice a semester and imagine other folks use it almost as much. What about this book makes it so un appealing for republication? Karl Kemm Del Mar College David B. Thompson wrote: We have a client in Europe who is earnestly seeking a copy of the Horace Fitzpatrick book The Horn Horn-Playing and the Austro-Bohemian Tradition 1680-1830, now long out of print. If someone happens to have a copy of that book and would be willing to part with it in order to generate some cash, please contact us privately with your asking price. Thank you very much. David B. Thompson, President Thompson Edition, Inc. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Where the air and spit go in a double horn
The wrap of the horn makes a big difference as to how water can accumulate in the Bb tubing. Generally the Kruspe wraps (Holton 179, Conn 8D, etc) collect water in the third valve Bb side because gravity draws it to the lowest point ? the 3rd valve rotor area. Even if you never use your 3rd valve (no G#s or C#s) an inadvertent unconscious finger wiggle, done while not playing, will briefly rotate the rotor sufficiently to allow water drops to fall into the unused third valve. Moisture from the F side can also work its way down the sides of the rotor into the Bb area (as mentioned in Bamberg's response) but probably not enough to cause a noticeable problem. Also, contrary to popular myth we do not spit into our horns but we do blow heated air into a restricted area that causes the air moisture in our horn to condense. I dont know for a scientific fact but I do wonder if the Bb side tubing, when not in use, heats up sufficiently to produce condensation. (Heat dispersion through the metal tubing? Just a speculation). Bambergs comment about the pressure differential between the Bb and F side seems to make sense to me although no doubt the fine nuances of understanding pressure dynamics as he describes it probably escape me. I'd say just take note of where gravity pulls the water as you hold the horn in playing position. You can then imagine how water gets blown over humps and then gets stuck in plumber's elbows of which the horn has many with the Bb 3rd valve as the worst. Happy water hunting, Karl Kemm Del Mar College Horn, Theory, Humanities Steve Freides wrote: Is my horn leaking? I've been playing exclusively on the F horn lately, but when I empty my horn's slides, all the water is in the B-flat slides and none in the F slides. I do know the difference and to confirm this I played some notes both ways and removed the appropriate slides just to be sure I knew where the air was going - the longer slides are for the lower-pitched, F, portion of the horn. I cannot figure out why the water is in the B-flat slides except that something might be leaking somewhere. Thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kkemm%40delmar.edu ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Hunting Horn, Natural Horn, Progress Report
I have one of these (from Lark in the Morning) and I highly do not recommend it as anything other than ornamental. You would do as well equipped with pipe benders, solder, a metallic funnel, and 14 feet of metal tube making one on your own. It does look nice and takes an ornamental position in my office. I found my Perinet for $300.00 in an antique store. I suggest checking antique stores. You will do well looking in high end stores that receive estates located in up-state New York, Maine, or even Louisiana (French and French Canadian influence areas). Many estates have one or two decorating the mantle and when the inheritors sell off the belongings they usually have no regard for the decorative hunting horn that in many cases dates from around 1900. I've seen some Chinese knock-offs at around $150.00 in some antique shops that I would recommend to a beginner cor de chasse enthusiast. Lamenting that I missed our first Rendezvous of the AHHS this weekend. Karl Kemm Del Mar College Corpus Christi, TX Steve Freides wrote: Hunting Horn: ---http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HOR051_A_Large+Hunting+Horn_ E_ Anyone care to comment on this? I thought it might be an inexpensive introduction to the natural horn although it looks to be so inexpensive that I have my doubts. The same web site also has: Furst-pless Hunting Horn, green leather wrapped, nice condition AMD036 $600.00 http://www.larkcamp.com/giffiles/AMISSF/AMD036-1.JPG Natural Horn: - I found one web site with natural horns but no prices, http://members.aol.com/wwwebbrass/natural_horns.htm Progress Report: I'm pleased to report that I've managed to make a noise on the top line written F (concert B-flat) for the first time and am acquiring greater repeatability with the few notes immediately below it. I credit carrying a spare mouthpiece around with me and practicing buzzing it for an increase in the rate of my progress. I'm at about six weeks or so into playing the horn and still having an absolute blast with it, and am also enjoying participating in this list, although you all do have, collectively, a rather odd sense of humor (how many horn parts?). Steve it's natural Freides ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kkemm%40delmar.edu ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Sound reflectors
I can speak from my experience in a military band where the horns have a particularly difficult time projecting their sound (with a desirable tone) in competition with more numerous directional brasses. For three years I tediously experimented with placement of Blast Shields and came to the following conclusions. If you want to boost the horn sound and use deflectors (Blast Shields) you will tend to get out to the audience only the less desirable tone colors of the Horn and create an acoustic environment that encourages bad intonation and alarming quantities of missed notes. I submitted my findings those years ago to my then commander, the now retired Lt.Col. Chevallard and despite some secret protestations from an upper NCO, he agreed that we sounded better directing our sound off to the flanks of the band without Blast Shield assistance. If I had to use reflectors Id consider a wood surface with some irregular facets. Id angle the principal surface face up about 65 degrees. Finally, Id place them at least seven feet away from my bell. Band directors always make the first mistake of burying the horns in the middle of the band in front of the Trombones or Trumpets. The horn sound gets lost in the bodies of the back row. If the Horns play louder it only encourages the back row to play even louder. Then Band directors make the second mistake of placing deflectors behind the Horns to amplify the Horn sound. While it partially protects the Horns from the directional brass assault from behind, the Horns become victims of their own echo. The sound reflected has a brittle tone causing the Horns to reinterpret their intonation and adjust accordingly ? in other words, play out of tune. Perhaps a physicist can clarify this but I found that a reflective surface closer than seven to nine feet from the bell gives off a somewhat less desirable brittle tone (though not necessarily brassy it seems thin and jagged) and has an adverse effect on accuracy and intonation. You can actually feel the feedback interference of your own echo battering your lip buzz. Reflective surfaces more than nine feet and less than 25 offer optimum reflection. Karl Kemm Del Mar College Horn, Theory, Humanities jlmthompson wrote: Sound reflectors...from those who have used and/or experience with them.do they work? Is it best if it's a round or square surface. a flat surface, slightly concave, slightly convex, multi angular like a shell or? What percentage if anyone knows does it enhance or project the volume of the sound compared to without one? Where is the best placement (I know behind the horn and in front of the trumpets :) and at what angle inclination works best? Thanks, Jim ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kkemm%40delmar.edu ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] melody Tchaikovsky 5?
Glenn Miller made the Hit Parade in the early 1940s performing Moon Love - a swing version of the Tchik 5 II melody. Obviously Tchaikovsky didn't have a futuristic swing band in mind with lyrics that have something to do with wanting the previous evenings events relegated to a one night stand (moon love). Karl Kemm Chris Tedesco wrote: Actually, is the solo melody from Tchaik 5 also used in another piece? While practicing it one day, a singer asked me if I was playing Tchaikovsky, and began to sing words to the melody. She couldn't remember the piece it was from, but it was either a vocal(solo) or a choral piece. I asked my teacher and he said she was likely mistaken. I was under the impression that the solo was composed with a certain voice of a singer, baritone I believe, in mind, but I've never heard of any vocal piece with that melody in. Can anyone shed some light on this? Chris --- Joe Duke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Stopped Horn Pitch
You will likely receive an avalanche of responses arguing if the pitch goes up or down but as you have correctly observed it does both. As your hand closes off the bell it effects the sound waves as you mentioned and lowers the pitch. This lowered pitch also maintains its relative position in the overtone series (eg. an 8th harmonic C on the F horn becomes an 8th harmonic C [sounds like a B] on the E horn). The lips respond by vibrating at the friendliest frequency and follow the pitch downward to the optimum resonance without concern of where it sits on the overtone series. I think your question deals with this mysterious transition where the pitch suddenly becomes the lower harmonic of a higher overtone series without the feel of a pop or any noticeable audible click. The hand placement can't account for the change since it simply does not move at all further in from the position of Echo horn to Stopped horn. I've looked for and read several materials but have not found a reasonable explanation for this transition. Keep in mind that most people don't even know this transition exists. You may want to look into the fact that the air column behaves differently in a highly compressed environment. By nearly sealing the bell and continuing to blow air into the tube you increase the air pressure. The sound waves (regular clustering of compressed air themselves) respond relative to the environment and we perceive this as a higher pitch with several stronger than normal overtones (color or buzz). A similar effect happens when you introduce dense air into the column - try filling your horn (and mouth) with helium (very dense compared to nitrogen) and you'll notice the pitch rise quite a bit and a stopped horn tone quality without the hand in the bell. I think you ought to look into how sound behaves with changes in air pressure and remember that the lip buzz (vibration frequency) simply gravitates toward the optimum resonance with no concern of placement in the overtone series. I'd consult studies that deal with sound that travels from air into water for instance. As a side note: many folks don't realize that a fixed length of tube, like let's say what a natural horn has, has three overtone series available to it. A horn pitched in Eb has the Open Eb overtone series, an Echo (hand covering but not sealing) D overtone series, and a Stopped (virtually closed off) E overtone series. Karl Kemm Del Mar College carson smith wrote: I am doing a report for a basic acoustics class on hand stopping. It involves a 1-2 page write up and a five minute presentation. From what I have read so far it seems as though the hand lowers the harmonic series as it is inserted by decreasing the number of standing waves. What I do not understand is why there seems to be a sudden semitone rise in pitch when it is fully stopped. Can anyone explain this to me or point me toward some good references? Thank you, Carson _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/kkemm%40delmar.edu ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] H. Gottwald
Does anyone know anything Heinrich Gottwald? I have looked in Robert Eitner, Francois Joseph Fetis, MGG ? Die Musik, La Musica, Groves, Baker, and Google. It would seem that my graduate training in library research has failed me at the moment and I have to resort to taking my query to the chat room where I should have saved myself a whole lot of time by coming to in the first place. I have programmed Fantasie Heroique by Heinrich Gottwald for two recitals this fall. Dr. Matlick from OU provided me with a piano part and the information that Gottwald flourished around 1840 and that this work comes from the period of early valve exploitation in Germany. The Fantasie Heroique carries the opus number 25 implying Gottwald wrote 24 other works but good luck finding those assuming they have any value worth seeking. The Op. 25 went out of print in 1973 (Cundy Bettoney Co. Boston). Apparently Michael Lewis transcribed it for trombone and recently recorded it. Id like, at the very least, reliable dates for this composer without having to extract them from baptismal records stored in some Saxon monastery. Perhaps somebody has stumbled upon his name in the course of writing or reading a dissertation and can provide additional background. I appreciate any information about Gottwald or this work. Karl Kemm [EMAIL PROTECTED] (361) 698-1601 ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
