Re: [Hornlist] Confusing transposition (double post)
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Re: [Hornlist] Different Wiener Horn
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Playing under a Ceiling Fan
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Ifor James playing Neruda
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Re: [Hornlist] abbreviations (was: Rare horn piece...)
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Re: [Hornlist] Horn Parts
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Leadpipe Question
But why not combining ear right hand to fine tune the 23 g# Or 1 on the F-side open right hand a bit ? == -Original Me ssage- Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:27:49 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Leadpipe Question From: Steven Mumford mumfordhornwo...@att.net To: horn@music.memphis.edu First of all, please send all your original Kruspe leadpipes to me! G# above the staff has been sharp on pretty much all the pre-war Kruspes I've tried using the 2-3 fingering. 2nd valve locks it in nicely, open for the A. That's with an original pipe. It's anybody's guess with a brand X pipe. If a note is squirrely on a particular horn, it's often because that note wants to be very flat or sharp. You want it to be in tune, so you're trying to play it somplace that it isn't. Try and figure out where the horn wants that note to be and go from there. - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Slide Grease and Valve Oil
Sorry, Ken, these red rot story is a bit different. It does occur on unlacquered instruments rarely, but it does occur a lot on lacquered instruments. Why ? Because many makers, even famous, do not remove the excess solder by hand (scratching it away; enormous extra costs because time consuming), but remove it in an acidic bath. This bath has to be neutralized most carefully, otherwise some particles of the acid may remain on the metal surface be over lacquered. Then the process of zinc pest can begin. Ken´s recommendation of oiling the horns inside can be special supported for those players, who produce a very acidic saliva. I am fortunate, as I never had such kind of a problem. And finally: all the recommendation can be made only on an average, not for special situations, climate, etc. -Original Message- Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:31:24 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Slide Grease and Valve Oil From: Kenneth Pope k...@poperepair.com To: h...@music. memphis. edu horn@music.memphis.edu Luke Zyla writes: About oiling the valves. There are only two bearings on rotor valves.? The rotor surfaces do not touch the sides of the valve casing, so it in not necessary to oil inside the valve.? Adding oil inside the valve only creates a mess that must be cleaned out or diluted by adding more and more oil.? Start by removing the valves and clean them well.? Oil only the bearings upon reassembly.? Your valves will work quickly and need only very occasional oiling on the top and bottom bearings.? Heed Hans' advice and stop over oiling your valves. CORdially, Luke Zyla Boy, Luke, I couldn't disagree with you more on your advice. To me, the oiling of your horn is less for the sake of providing lubrication on the thrust bearings, but more for PROTECTION from Red Rot. It is when the moisture comes in contact with the Zinc in the brass of your horn that the horn can become more susceptible to dezincification (red rot). A thin film of oil not only prevents this, but it also keeps your horn CLEAN. Of course, it's also a good idea to provide oil for all parts that come in conctact with each other, AND the film of oil will also create a better seal for your valves. If a player finds that their valves are getting slow - that typically is from the over use of the Linkage or Bearing oils (under the cap and by the bumpers). Hans' advice is to stop OVER oiling your valves - NOT to stop oiling them. But, Luke, your advice might be good for my business! :) Sincerely Ken Pope 'Just put your lips together and Blow' Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham St. Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 (617)522-0532 http://www.poperepair.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Slide grease - different perspective
Why do slides get loose ? Because of too much polishing. Basta. I have used one horn from 1989 to 1999 extensively, means about 300 services in my orchestra/year plus all the other gigs concerts solo work, but the slides are as tight as on the first day, even the two tuning slides are not loose, but what the hell are so many doing with their horns, that the slides get loose What kind of junk horns are they playing ? -Original Message- Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:07:03 +0100 Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Slide grease - different perspective From: Reicher, Tom treic...@cooley.com To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Agree about the loose slide theory, based on two horns that I use, one with loose slides and the other with tight slides. The former requires more frequent applications of slide grease than the latter. Presumably, the valve oil is able to seep over the sliding surface and decompose the slide grease. This thread is beginning to resemble the puzzler, for those familiar with the radio program, Car Talk. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] NBC horn player under Toscanini 1948
Hello friends, anybody out there who could identify or name the two horn players on the March 1948 NBC Video of Wagner´s Tannhaeuser ouverture conducted by Toscanini, please ? The two players are shown for over a minute at least again later. Han Pizka ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Strauss concerto
The conductor could use the original score plus his ears. The regular score would be available from Universal Edition, Vienna, perhaps, but I am not sure if the have it on sale. Normally they have these things on rental only. Strauss is not public domain. It will take another ten years (here in Europe) plus four months. The piano reduction would also work for the conductor. = -Original Message- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:03:08 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Strauss concerto From: Mathew James hornboy...@gmail.com To: horn list horn@music.memphis.edu Hey list, I am in need of a fairly large favor. (i hope i have a few brownie points saved up) I am performing the Strauss horn concerto no.1 with my university wind ensemble, the issue, we have all the parts but are lacking a score for the band version, inter library loans are not finding any, and we are having issues contacting Thompson editions. Is there anyone out there with access to the score for this. I would be forever in debt if anyone can provide assistance here. CORdially, -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] experience - mouthpiece
Phil, this particular buyer blamed the customership. I do not blame my trust worth customers to whom I invested a lot of confidence. But I had to change my payment policy (for certain products as e.g. mouthpieces) due to an extreme rare black sheep. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] August Kiel horn concerto
There is a recording with Michael Hoeltzel and another with Radek Baborak (live from the Munich competition). I have both. But why do you need tzhe recording ? Everything is written in the parts. You also should remember, this kind of recordings does not sell that many copies that the producers get another 1000 copies made after a while. They simply do not care about. So they will not be found in any catalogue after five years time ... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] When Things Go Bad
Dear Bill, such things happen out of nowhere. I remember the Olympic summer of 1972, when I was very busy with the opera with the studio. One morning we had a recording session - the day after a very heavy opera - and not a single note was possible. This was a real shock for me. No, it was a warning by the nervous costume the muscles NOT to exaggerate their potentials. Your case seems different. There are some influences in our lives, we have no influence upon. Extreme weather changes, changing earths magnetism or electric (cosmic) energy created by extreme tensions in he earths crust, released by earth quakes thousands of miles away. But we feel that, mostly non consciously, but our body our nerves do that. Do you remember relaxed days, where you hit everything with your foot, your head your hand. You knew before that it might happen, just seconds before or just at the moment when it happen. You have no explanation for that. Well, watch the international news relate your body´s strange behavior to the geologic movements, catastrophes you hear about. You will be surprised. How to overcome that ? Lay down the horn for the day, as you would not profit anything, but damage a lot if you continue practicing with force. Use the time to read the music for better memorization, read music books, prepare parts, maintain your horn. But never use FORCE to make your embouchure work. Best wishes. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: Wagner tuba and John Ericson [was: Fwd: AW: AW: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17]
This kind of experience - having participated on a few productions requiring Wagnertuba - is a no-experience compared with other people playing wagnertuba regularly in large opera houses, which have THE RING, ELEKTRA FRAU OHNE SCHATTEN in their repertory, not just as a one season program. This makes the difference. Even playing them asleep perhaps. In your country, well, Dallas, New York, San Francisco, Chicago Seattle perhaps will provide the chance for such an experience, but the better experience in such fields is acquired in such places as the opera houses of Vienna, Budapest, La Scala di Milan, Munich, Cologne, Duesseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin, Dresden, Nuernberg, Stuttgart, Karlsruhe, Hannover, London, Stockholm, Oslo few others. Furthermore, players do not switch places between opera symphony here as frequently as they do in the USA. Scholars, and Dr.Ericson is an excellent scholar, have just the chance to play the Wagnertuba occasionally if they are called to fill a vacancy in a big production. So they have not the chance to get a really experience with these particular instruments. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: Fwd: AW: AW: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17
Martin, if you just read a horn forum to become a better player, you might reading at the wrong place, as there are just very few professionals as contributers. Contributions by non professionals might be interesting for discussion, but they are not designed to make you a better player. We have a similar case in the recent horn call, where a Non-specialist with nearly zero experience on the particular field write wrote an article or book about the use of Wagnertuba. He has received a strong critic for that by the long time expert Shelley Civil. William Melton (on the other hand) wrote extensively about the history the use of the Wagnertuba was lauded for his great true effort. Martin, following a discussion does not require that you agree or not. It is also a brain game. The whole thing about the shorter valve the assembly history was also initiated continued by colleagues missing the required informations. They also seemed not to understand the acoustical physical relations between horn construction, intonation, pitches available pitches due to inadequate informations (studies) experiences with related instruments. It seems to me, that a lot of folks look at things just from a very particularpoint of view. One thing comes to mind reading your last sentence (happy practising): isn´t a lot overpractised ?? Isn´t it much better, practising just things needing improvement ? Isn´t it more important, to practise less, but very thoughtful. So time remains for reading music listen to music - or reading other stuff too (art history, biographies, music theory). = -Original Message- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:29:34 +0100 Subject: Fwd: AW: AW: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17 From: Martin Bender em...@magma.ca To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Begin forwarded message: From: Martin Bender em...@magma.ca Date: February 12, 2009 9:20:45 AM GMT-05:00 To: c.j.l.w...@newcastle.ac.uk, The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: AW: AW: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17 Just a thought here-- try and imagine how much progress one might achieve by re-focusing the same amount of (extremely valuable!) mental energy expended in debating this pedantic issue, to practising orchestral excerpts. In utmost deference to those involved, I believe that one's time is better utilized pursuing a more result-oriented line of thought, rather than a tangential exploration of arcane, esoteric minutia. Leave the epistemological exercises to the musicologists; apply Occam's razor to this shorter second valve slide issue and answer two questions: will it make me a better player? If so, how? Happy practising, martin bender ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17
Kit, the order of the olympic podium brought up by you is mere nonsense, if you relate it to the valves assembly. You forgot, that the middle podium is higher than the two others to expose the winner. The middle position is given just by symetric reason. What experience do you have regarding instruments from mid or early 19th century ? Why do you suspect that the makers could not make precise instruments or precise technical parts ? How do you come to such assumptions ? The best valves today are not made by robots but by hand, still using old drilling machines from about 1920. Some old valves - my example is the old Ottenstein Horn used by Franz Strauss - were built so carefully, that the valves are still tight on this 140 year old horn, the valve shanks still perfect parallel, cut at a precision of less than one tenth of a millimeter. They fit perfect into the other shank of the other valve. If I use the tuning slide of my Viennese horn stick it into the shanks of the tuning slide of my 110 year old Uhlmann, the slide fits perfectly. Remember, these old masters of their trade were extremely strict regarding measurement. They had special tools, self made tools, to hold the shanks parallel 100% before soldering them together and soldering them on the ears of the valve casings. So your arguments fit very poorly made instruments only. I do have the experience with a lot of historic horns from my own collection of over eighty horns through the centuries. You would not believe, but horn players played duets facing the bells, during the golden age of the hand horn. You simply forgot a mechanical reason, why horn players play their instrument at one side only (the right side): if the bells face each other, there is the danger of touching each other resulting in the bang noise disturbing the performance. Your arguments about sitting on the left side of the stage if the horns would be played with the bell to the left side, confirms that you are missing a lot of experience. First, orchestra play is not just symphony. When the horn entered the orchestra, it was the opera orchestra. Here the horns would play verse the underside of the stage result in a muffled sound, if sitting at the usual place to the left of the conductor. In the middle of the pit it would not matter right or left handed horns. On the stage, the horns are shifted to both sides at will of the conductors. It does not matter if it is the same piece. I have seen Vienna Philharmonic (as one example) horns sitting at half right position (seen from the audience), at far right, also at middle left position or far left (Alpine symphony or Mahler no.2) when have the section has to exit come back for the back stage band. I know orchestras where the conductor wants a complex wall of brass in the middle. Even in the pit, the classical position of 4 horns is far left (same view, conductors view), for Mozart in the middle, Italian operas sometimes at right, with Zubin Mehta streight infront of the timpani at right side, etc. Please, do not come with such arguments. I have seen horns with two valves in the 1/2 1/1 oder, but they were assembled wrong, so I reversed the slides, even in the collection. Do you really believe the illustrations with baroque horn players play bells up ? This was the freedom of the engraver (we probably talk about the same engraving ? Would you believe the players were that stupid playing bell high up to get all the green oxide enriched moist into their mouth ? To your recent post with the nice links to the instruments: There is just one horn with two valves included. These valves are in the usual order 1/1 1/2 steps. The other picture shows an alto-horn (silver color), also with two valves in the correct order. Any other shown instruments are very early two valved trumpets or bugles or upright altos with vales in the reversed order or special instruments made for special players, but have nothing to do with our horn. Andreas Barth his pupil in Augsburg the maker in Dillingen were not within the rank of the best makers of their time. The crown on the one leadpipe of a trumpet does not mean that the instrument belonged to the Munich Hoforchestra, as an opera orchestra would have no use for a trumpet without a tuning slide. It might have belonged to the Royal Cavalry instead used for signals, never to an orchestra. Another sign, that the so called self established specialists far off the real world of music often run into severe errors. Half a dozen catholic instruments out of two hundred instruments is a ratio of 3% only. These very very few example were made in Bavaria by second grade makers with no experience with valved instruments then. And again, trumpets had completely different requirements than horns. The horn played in a higher octave of the harmonics than the trumpet had no immediate need for a half tone valve as the right hand could manage that very easily, but it needed the full step valve to reach
Re: [Hornlist] shortest valve slide
To some extent, Yes, but one has to think, how these instruments were used that time. A complete chromatic use needed some time for development. Just think, how much todays players still struggle with fingerings, as they have never understood the harmonic series, probably being never taught about. Further, the trumpet is playing one octave lower in the harmonic series, making the situation somewhat different. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Sansone design
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Bb slides on top
This happen to the French custom people, because they have no brain like most custom people. It happen to your daughter, because she did not think right forward. Two sets of slides: the two shortest must be very easy to select. Well the shorter of the two belongs to the Bb-side. The next selection is between the remaining slides. Here also the two shorter can be taken for the first valve. Remain the two longer slides, logically for the third valve. Now just select the shorter each of these two sets of two slides and put them into the shanks for the Bb-side. The rest is known. - But your daughter is not alone. We had a low player (professional), whose horn´s slides we modified somewhat during the intermission. He noticed some intonation problems, looked weird on his horn but did not find out. (your music coming soon). ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Why is shortest valve slide in the middle?
Simon, you are right about the rigid system of education, which is not only in Japan, but in many countries. Many band instructors around the world contribute much to this rigid system, as they are lacking most of the basic instructions themselves, thus being victims of these rigid systems themselves. Does it really matter, who got the first valves added, trumpet or horn ? When the horn got its first valve after or the same time as the trumpet, the horn was chromatic allready, but the pitches were not equal in strength accuracy. So the first valve, more important than others obviously, was added as a full step. The second was added soon to correct these inaccurate pitches (semitones), and the 1 1/2 valve was added finally. As it is used much less than the others (1st valve, full step is most used), it was added behind the two other valves. The WHy WHEN is absolutely of NO importance for students of these rigid systems, as there is ZERO chance to convince them. They just think about memorizing everything so they can pass the tests. After the tests their memory seems to be erased completely. I also had some students, whom I told to correct f2 by 1st valve when on the Bb-side the pitch was flat. Yes, yes, I understand. And it was mentioned by myself, that this fingering were necessary, if the f2 were to play very openly as a held note longer than 1/8. Yes, yes, I understand. - Sorry, it worked just ONCE was forgotten the very next second due to the inadequate instructions by the rigid system, where trumpet instructors instruct horn players or where stupid ignorant instructors write the study books which become a part of the ministerial rules about every study of every instrument. If we do not break these rules frequently, we will end up in the trees like monkeys. Regarding design, you should remember, what was the old design. The Uhlmann Viennese of 1824 never had the problem of the third slide protruding verse the bell nor had the Paris models any difficulty. By the way, I remember two or three single instruments, where the valves were assembled as 1-2-3 as 1/2-1/1-1 1/2 steps, but I suspect, that they had just the slides inserted the wrong way. I had some students there in my master classes, telling them to adjust ALL slides, if not, I would not accept them the following day. But they returned the following day with all slides in fully. When I asked them, why they did so, they responded: our band teacher said to do so - or my idol, Mr.xy, has his horn set that way. To continue teaching in such HOPELESS situation, is throwing pearl before swine. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Hans, setup and Sansone
Leonard, I have pictures (out of old catalogues books) of nearly every horn made during the centuries, so I have seen these Sansone horns poorly made band horns a well. The main problems are that many makers rely on questionable players as advisors and many makers are not able to combine perfect functionality with esthetic design. Punctum ! Who are to be blamed at first ? Players (professionals included) having a extreme narrow view of the things. Punctum, the second time. Back to the original question: why the shortest valve (1/2 step) in the middle ? As said before by myself: the full step was more important for two reasons: 1st: it allowed the instant switch from F (the central tonality of the horns, then Lieblich pompoese Waldhoerner in F) to the tonality E-flat, the main tonality of the horns in the orchestra at the time of the transition from hand horn to valve-equipped horns. 2nd: with the one full step valve (the horn in E-flat) one could play a nearly full chromatic scale from f# below staff (plus the bottom C Bb - all written read in F-Horn - up to g2 on top of the staff in nearly equal quality strength, involving the bell hand just minimally. Bb, C - gb - g - a - bb - bnat - c1 - c# - d - eb - e - f - gb(f#) - g - ab - a - bb1 - bnat - c2 - c# - d - eb2 - e - f - gb(f#) - g2 That is the main compass of the orchestral horn, while the solo goes up more, pitches available anyway. Problematic the g#2 only, a pitch still problematic on most modern doubles due to the involved valve combination (23), as just 2nd valve is rather flat. A only 1/2 step valve would enable cleaner half steps, perhaps, but leave some uncovered pitches. I hope, this answers Simon Varnams original question. == ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] re: Pizka and Hypochondriacs
Gratulation, Ross, to your comment to one of my letters from several months ago. It must have cost you many sleepless nights, perhaps (just an unqualified assumption by myself). And it is just a confirmation of my assumptions, that you - not you only - address things as insults as soon as the things are addressed by their names right on the nail. It is also a confirmation, that amateurs professionals (what is your source of the 1 to 40 ratio ? do you think your area is representative for the musical world as a whole ?) as well look for excuses of certain playing inabilities, which could be cured by changing a personal habit or more, instead of changing e.g. fingerings, postures, lip technique, selection of repertory etc. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Why is shortest valve slide in the middle?
The valves were invented to replace the most commonly used crooks for Eb, E D. It is right, that just the full step valve would be the most practical, as a full chromatic scale with nearly no loss in quality was made possible, just involving the right (muting) hand a bit. Further, the valves were invented, to enable the player to perform an instant switch between the tonalities AND the chromatic scale. The second valve brought an additional first fine tuning for the half steps. As players found out, that the combination of the two valves were insufficient as being too sharp in the combination, the third valve was added. Simon, there are some examples of single or two-valved horns preserved. But just a few, as few have been built before the three-valved-horn came into existence. The third slide, by the way, touches the bell only on poorly designed horns. As a designer, one has to care not only for the right function, but for the esthetics also. You do not see single horns with a design, where the third slide hits the bell, no single F, no single Bb. But you see a lot of imbalanced design with double horns. If your friends in Japan would think more natural-horn-wise, they would understand. But they are not alone. They are in the same community of fingering-thinking-only players. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Notations on sheet music
The second was meant D.C.dal Segno (from the beginning at the sign) not aL sEGNO2: -Original Message- Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:53:45 +0100 Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Notations on sheet music From: Jeremy Cucco jer...@sublymerecords.com To: 'The Horn List' horn@music.memphis.edu I don't recall the piece of music, but one summer, I was attending a music camp and a colleague of mine and I noticed that the publisher had placed the word Smile in the text below the notes. While we're certain that it meant Simile, we did indeed take it literally. During all rehearsals and the concert, we proceeded to take our horns away from our mouths long enough to give a enormous smile to the stick waver. At the end of the camp, he commented on our pleasant demeanor during all of the rehearsals. On another note, in the Concone book, there are several instances (at least 2 that I know of) where at the end of the piece, it's noted: D.C. al Segno (It uses the sign, but I don't have that on my keyboard). Sadly, the first measure of the piece contains only 1 note and the 2nd measure of the piece contains the segno. It's apparently a short repeat?? Cheers- Jeremy -Original Message- From: Bill Gross [mailto:william.s.gr...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:38 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: [Hornlist] Notations on sheet music The comments added by editors to sheet music are sometimes useful sometimes, amusing and sometimes you wonder why they wrote that. We just finished a program that included Ashokan Farewell (from the PBS Series on the War of Northern Aggression). At the end of a repeated 32 measure of rests there is a note, 2nd time to next strain above the repeat sign. The most unusual is from Delius' In A Summer Garden, poco rit, more respectfully muted then a little later, take of mutes. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven quintet in E flat
It has a contrabasso ad lib. (added by Peter Steidle). ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] authentification of email
Dear friends, if you inquire or order from me expect any answer, you must authentificate my email ID first, so to receive my answer. Otherwise I write write again, but mail bounces back. I really do not have the time, to write mails just for a bounce back. I also would be most thankful, if you would transmit your POSTAL ADDRESS together with your oder. An email ID is not sufficient for delivery nor is it a valid postal address. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Decca Ring
Hello Lindsay, Yes, it was not nice, that Culshaw omitted mentioning my teacher Gottfried von Freiberg, who suffered his first heart infarct in 1958. There were some problems with the Rheingold prelude, but where do they not occur. Somewhen, Solti mentioned ( travelling the elevator), if Roland should play the first entrance of the horns. But I have no witness about the outcome. After my opinion, it was usual is usual in many orchestras (ask Zubin Mehta !) that the first pair of horns takes over the first entrance instead of horn 8 7. As trusting my ears, it sounds like Freiberg playing on first chair all the Rheingold. Roland could have done the very first solo (that´s what Solti wanted) but he was not principal during Rheingold. And: all 8 + 1 players play horn for the prelude. = -Original Message- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:25:25 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Decca Ring From: Lindsay Carrick lindsaycarr...@hotmail.com To: horn@music.memphis.edu I have just finished re-reading Ring Resounding by John Culshaw which is his account of the famousrecording.Strangely whilst many references are made to Roland Berger as Principal Horn throughout therecording there is no reference to Gottfried von Freiberg.As I understand from speaking to Viennese players von Freiberg was Principal for Rheingoldrecorded in 1958 assisted by Josef Veleba and Roland Berger played 5th/1st Tuba with hisfather on 6th/2nd Tuba.I have further information that the only opera on which Berger played every session was Siegfried.It does seem wrong that Culshaw should omit to mention such a distinguished player who definitelywas Principal on Rheingold and especially when describing the recording of the famous Prelude.In fact he implies that Berger was Principal by stating Roland Berger nodded his approval to trythe prelude againPerhaps Culshaw did not get on with Freiberg but in any case it is a glaring omission, even insultingyou might say.Lindsay Carrick _ Cut through the jargon: find a PC for your needs. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/130777504/direct/01/___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] email from Donato Inglese
Valerie, you are quite funny. What is clownery of his youtube video clips ? Tell me, please. Besides his Long Call under the blanket ? Or the half naked Strauss no.2 ? Or was it funny how he presented/blamed old Hermann Baumann, who had some cups of wine before ??? Is it fun or clownery how he played Strauss no.1 in a church concert ? Yes, he is fearless like a terrorist. And I might say, you seem to understand grotesque as fun, an understanding which I cannot share with you. His video clips from the competition in Sannicandro are not fun but scandalous. He performed the wonderful lyrical first part of Nino Rota´s Castel del Monte if he wanted to demolish the walls of Jericho. I witnessed that first hand, as I sat in the jury, which you can see on the clip. And a musical competition with a highest award of 5.000.- EUR (equal 6.500 USD) is not a joke or fun, as you might assume. A competition is a serious thing. If it were not serious, I would have interrupted stopped his most ugly performance. I had no information about him except his name age on the name list, so not having any preoccupation. His performance was an insult. You find it funny perhaps, but why ? You should explain, what´s so funny there, please. Yes, clams aren´t liver cancer, I agree, but what a comparison ? And nobody talked about clams regarding Donato Inglese. Nobody talked about his musical style, if any. We talked about his insulting ugly way of playing the horn, which is not fun at all to listen to. It is not fun, but disgusting. You hope to be as fun fearless with your horn as is Donato. Well, Valerie, having fun be fearless is not the essential of horn playing, special as most amateurs (you are an amateur, who loves horn playing) have not the playing skill, to fool around at will. Most of them fool, because it happen to them and giggle even at mini-clams (of their colleagues or others, being completely destroyed by their own clams !!!). If you like to make fun with the horn, you must be even better than most professionals, controlling the horn in all aspects. Yes, then you will be able to make fun, but in this case, you would never do such ugly things as did Donato, as you would not want to ruin your reputation as a player. Fun has nothing to do with primitivity. May-be, you have mixed up the priorities. Some TV show use a technique similar to Donato´s art, where people receive their applaud even for back door air escape noise, as soon as the show master claps with his hands or as soon as the laughing machine is turned on. -Original Message- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:39:20 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] email from Donato Inglese From: wells123...@juno.com wells123...@juno.com To: horn@music.memphis.edu Yes, I did get a very nice email from Donato. He thanked me for my warm words. I believe he is frustrated that people judge him harshly because they misunderstand the purpose of his youtube videos. His you-tube videos are for fun, not nose-in-the-air arteeestry. I enjoy his you-tube videos because Donato is FUN, fearless, un-inhibited, spirited and shows a refreshing sense of humor. These are rare qualities to find publically expressed by professional horn players. I believe it's sad when people take their horn playing so seriously that they can't clown around. We need to keep things in perspective. Clams aren't liver cancer, they won't kill us, so we should have fun with our horns! I hope someday to be as fun fearless with my horn as Donato is. ~~Valerie Financial aid not enough? Click here for information on funding your education. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbwYl988o7V89XjpoZrQ1AdSKm3vezoPaurjJfsqtfvrZn8Is/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] email from Donato Inglese
Hello Peter, yes, I got a letter from Donato inglese, not unfriendly, but telling that he does not care at all what we think or talk about his playing nor were he interested in comments by any jury at any competition. Obviously he has an extreme EGO a very disturbed relation about esthetics in music. It is with him as with the particular ghostdriver: Voice from car radio: Attention on ... freeway. A ghost driver is driving on the wrong track against the flow of the traffic. All be extremely careful, best by driving at most right. - Says the particular driver to himself: Just ONE ghost driver ? There are thousands .! === -Original Message- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:08:41 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] email from Donato Inglese From: phir...@nypl.org To: horn@music.memphis.edu Has anyone on this list recently gotten a message from Donato Inglese? I just received something from that name using gmail and it is close to a random sequence of words, but seems to be responding to some of the comments I made on this list about his youtube performances afew weeks back. I can not tell if he liked what I said (I felt I was mostly positive, even as I was struck by the anachistic character of his playing and whole persona in my contributions to the list). I have enough friends that might get some jollies by putting me on, but the signature says greet Italian donated English horn which seems like Donato Inglese feed through babelfish or some other translator. Peter Hirsch ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil New Years
Why dont you read my messages ? I told all allready ! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Digest time (re Vienna Phil)
I tried that exactly that in my first messages after the concert ==. -Original Message- Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 20:15:39 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Digest time (re Vienna Phil) From: Leonard Peggy Brown waldh...@sbcglobal.net To: horn@music.memphis.edu message: 11 date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:15:04 +0100 from: hans.pi...@t-online.de hans.pi...@t-online.de subject: Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil New Years Why dont you read my messages ? I told all allready ! Hans, Happy New Year.Please calm down, like many folk I am on the digest and so I often don't see answers or questions until they show up several hours later. Sorry for asking a question that had all ready been answered.. but how would I know it has already been answered? You need to start answering questions BEFORE they have been asked in order to save us all some time : ) LLB ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil
Klaus, not diasphora but DIASPORA. Sorry, I know about your sight typing problems. But I had Greek lessons for 7 years. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] YouTube - COR DE CHASSE CADENCE A CHEVAL A MORMAL
Leonard, the video is lovely, but this horn playing technique has not much to do with the ancient horn technique some 200-250 years ago. It is a revival of hunting horn playing made easier (no much practising !) by the organizers of this custom. Their mouthpieces are much different from the old ones. Today they use very tiny shallow cups with a 2,5 mm bore and knifelike rim, thus the penetrating pinching sound, while the old mouthpieces were not much different from todays mouthpieces (deep funnel type, bore of 5 mms more, small rim made of thicker thread). This does not say, one should not like this kind of a sound. If done well, it is exciting - but has not much to do with hornplaying of ours, rather imitating the barking of a crowd of howling (positive !) hunting dogs: ppeow-ppeow-doohtt-doohtt Thanks for pointing us to this video. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Wunderluch
Sorry, not Wunderluch but Wunderlich. There were three Wunderlich companies: Wunderlich in Chicago around 1914 later, made first model of Sansone´s 5-valve Bb Wunderlich C.A. in Siebenbrunn , Vogtland, near Czech border, founded 1854, but no horns known Wunderlich R. in Berlin around 1927, advertising in Das Orchester. So your horn might be made by the Wunderlich in Chicago. Sorry, have nomore other info. = -Original Message- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:32:14 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Wunderluch From: Wilbert Kimple wkkim...@prodigy.net To: horn@music.memphis.edu I just bought a Wunderluch double horn. Can anyone out there supply me with information on this company? The horn was made in the 20s or 30s and is in excellent condition. Thanks. Wilbert wkkim...@prodigy.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil
YEs. my source in Vienna confirmed that he used the Paxman f-high F. The other hornplayers were: Lars Michael Stransky, as assistant, sitting left from Tomboeck (from viewer perspective), Jancovic on 2nd (sitting right from Tomboeck, from our view), second row: left: Thomas Joebstl playing 3rd right: Manuel Huber on 4rth. All horns sound as terrific as the whole orchestra. I have the impression, Barenboim has still kept his beautiful naive romantic musicianship as a very young man. Rare wonderful. There is no orchestra in the world with a similar warm, velvet rich light sound the same time. -Original Message- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:18:30 +0100 Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil From: pmji...@aol.com To: horn@music.memphis.edu From the glimpse I got from the broadcast, it looked like Tomboeck was playing a Paxman. I have a DVD of the Mozart little G-minor Symphony on which he and Roland Berger play the Paxman F/ high F doubles. I love hearing Tomboeck, he has such a terrific sound.. Pete Jilka Kansas City, MO -Original Message- From: Paul Rincon parsifal560...@gmail.com style=margin:0px; To: hans.pi...@t-online.de hans.pi...@t-online.de; The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 8:52 am Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil It seemed as though Tomböck was using a shorter crook for the Haydn Farewell. If I remember correctly, it had one little turn on it. Maybe an A crook? Probably the best playing of that solo that I've ever heard. The 2nd horn (don't know who it was) sounded amazing as well. Paul On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:36 AM, hans.pi...@t-online.de hans.pi...@t-online.de wrote: After Herbert von Karajan conducted the 1988 New Year´s Concert, Daniel Barenboim conducted a wonderful romantic concert. The Vienna Phil sounded incredibly sweet, velvet light this year. And Wolfgang Tomböck . and his colleagues . not only the single F Horns, but also the players . there is no better adjectiv than IDEAL. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/parsifal560sec%40gmail.com ___ post: h...@mu sic.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pmjilka%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil
After Herbert von Karajan conducted the 1988 New Year´s Concert, Daniel Barenboim conducted a wonderful romantic concert. The Vienna Phil sounded incredibly sweet, velvet light this year. And Wolfgang Tomböck . and his colleagues . not only the single F Horns, but also the players . there is no better adjectiv than IDEAL. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpiece
The problem is a problem of standards similar to the problem of different heights of car bumpers. If all horn makers would use the American Zero morse taper for the initial (reverse) taper - so to speak mouthpiece receiver - and all mouthpieces had the same taper on their shank, the problem would be solved. But most horns are (initially) built for a very particulat mouth piece to be used on that particular horn. Why ? Because most advising horn players cannot jump over their own shadow get the leadpipe´s beginning built according to the most used mouthpieces. As long we do not have an accord between mouth piece makers horn makers the problem will continue. It is better to clear the problems at the root than to repair or adapt the things later. == -Original Message- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:30:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [Hornlist] mouthpiece From: Milton Kicklighter kicklighg...@yahoo.com To: lewho...@yahoo.com, Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Actually Tom and Moosewood solved the problem for me. I made a trip to Phoenix so that he could fit the shank perfectly. I cannot believe that I spent so many years as a pro without knowing this little trick. Another: At least three times a year I take my horns to Ted Woehr in Pittsburgh to have minor adjustments made to the horn. I have never had this done without the horn playing better. And I mean never. Having these two little things done the first adjustments to the horn were very extensive and a bit expensive but worth every penny with out there being a noticeable difference in the way the horn plays. Thirty years of playing before I discovered this Duddd. So far I have never seen a horn even already very good ones... that did not play better after Ted did his thing. Milton --- On Thu, 1/1/09, lewho...@yahoo.com lewho...@yahoo.com wrote: From: lewho...@yahoo.com lewho...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Hornlist] mouthpiece To: kicklighg...@yahoo.com, The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 9:42 PM Since Milton brought up the bore problem, I suggest you check with Tom Greer at his mouthpiece company, MooseWood. He will take time to make sure the taper is correct for your new 8D. I know there has to be a bunch of us playing on MooseWood's. Walt Lewis --Original Message-- From: Milton Kicklighter Sender: horn-bounces+lewhorn9=yahoo@music.memphis.edu To: horn@music.memphis.edu ReplyTo: kicklighg...@yahoo.com ReplyTo: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] mouthpiece Sent: Jan 1, 2009 7:53 PM Joe, Just a quick one from me. I have been away from my computer for some time and didn't have time to read all the mouthpiece replies to you. BUT: How the shaft of the mouthpiece fits into the lead-pipe is critical I have two Alexanders, and I use the exact same mouthpiece for both horns: rim. bore etc. However the two lead pipes are totally different diam and even though both mouthpiece's will fit both horns, the sound, response, register, etc. is awful if I don't use the correct mouthpiece shaft with its horn. Meaning: if the shaft doesn't fit, then the mouthpiece won't work as it should. If someone else already said this forgive. As I said I didn't have time to read all of the other responses. Happy New Year All Milton Milton Kicklighter 4th horn Buffalo Phil ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lewhorn9%40yahoo.com Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT gobbley goop
They have landed, beware they have landed. And they send out this kind of messages to inform us that horn players will be safe, if they do not play with this ugly even by Prof.Gestopftmitscheisst von Lippenspucken Hornoxen viscount of Oedland duke de Maison du Toilet (alias Scheisshausen) disliked alto trombone sound special in combination with nachdruecken. - That´s what I deciphered from this impotent message.- Nevertheless A Happy Healthy New Year 2009 soon to arrive. Hans ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Flugel horn subbed for French horn -- it worked!
Hello Valerie, this was a perfect decision for another reason: Joseph (=correct spelling) Haydn Mozart do not require the ordinary horn sound but a much lighter sound as most horn players are used too, the sound of a narrow bore natural horn. Special for the tonalities G A, the fluegelhorn (not flugel) can be ideal. But a question: why did the player need the part rewritten ? I thought, the trumpet/fluegelhorn players can transpose too. Anyway, you made it easier for him, preparing the part. But may I recommend to you, to give the higher part to him, as it may be better balance the sound. As these kind of pieces do not require much study (all open harmonics) it should work on the spot even in amateur only ensembles. Happy New Year to you. -Original Message- Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:36:12 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Flugel horn subbed for French horn -- it worked! From: Valerie WELLS valleriewe...@msn.com To: horn list horn@music.memphis.edu On a Tuesday in December I learned that my second horn player had gotten the dates mixed up and had a set-in-stone conflict for our holiday concert the following Friday. I contacted every horn player I knew in the south Puget Sound area every single one was booked. I was desparate. We were playing this totally cool Franz Josef Haydn Organ Concerto in F in a local church w/ a fabulous pipe organ. This piece has a horn duet that's absolutely critical for the success of the piece. So at the final rehearsal, I had to face the conductor w/ the terrible news that I'd have to play the part alone. Our trumpet principal overheard me asked, Could you rewrite the second horn part in Bb and let me try it on my flugel horn? I went home rewrote it having no idea how it would turn out. The trumpet principal I got together early before the concert went over the part. To my amazement, he was able to make his flugel horn sound like a French horn. (He's very skilled.) There were a few notes he had to play up an octave, but it all turned out great. Who knew a flugel horn could sound so warm sonorous as to pass for a second horn part? Have any of you had the priviledge of playing this rarely played piece? It's SOOO fun. Another piece we did that was especially fun for me was Mozart's Three German Dances (with Sleigh Ride and hand bells). In the second movement (or dance) the horn carries the melody all the way through. It was so cool. Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] thumb lever action
Why dont you push the trigger hold it to get F tonality add 1 3 to get a perfect C-Horn then continue to play Mozarts coronation mass on a mere C-basso natural horn. It works. I do not remember, if Mozart used any manipulated tone during this composition. Explore the C-basso-horn with few arpeggios. That´s it. Very simple. If there is G-horn, use Bb plus 12. == -Original Message- Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:21:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [Hornlist] thumb lever action From: daniel.canaru...@unifi.it To: horn@music.memphis.edu First, many thanks to Bob Osmun and Paul Navarro: the matter worked exactly as described, though at first I feared I couldn't undo the lock ring on the articulated arm; but eventually it gave up easily, and then it was a matter of two minutes. Thanks also to Hans, even if this time I'm trying something which is not according to his advise. I now have more than two weeks till the next rehearsal, and that's the reason why I thought I'd try this right now. I practiced a couple of hours this morning (and played my daughter's Hoyer in the last two days). When I play only in Bb, then I'd say I have no big problem. The main difficulty is switching from Bb to F and back. I prefer g2 and f#2 on the F horn, so certain passages won't come at the proper speed, for the moment. We'll see. It's funny to think that, right now, I'd even have difficulties coming through a fairly easy C-horn program I played recently (Mozart's Coronation Mass and Concerto for Flute and Harp). On the other hand I feel less tension on average, and that seems to make some things easier. If I think of it, it's also an interesting experiment on how my brain works: trying to change 40-years old habits. Of course I'm interested in knowing about similar experiences. Daniel mathematical physicists dedicated amateur hornist - Messaggio da irich...@flash.net - Data: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:12:29 -0600 Daniel, When I was in my mid-30's, I tried reversing the thumb valve action on my Moennig horns - they are engineered for it, so it was simple to do. My idea was to make the double horn and descant horn fingerings consistent (and single Bb would fall out as well). I found that 20 years of habit was a great obstacle to overcome. I tried for about two years, but I could never get the fingerings to come automatically and finally gave up. When I returned all horns to their original settings, there was hardly any residual habit to get rid of. On the other hand, Dale Clevenger could pick up horns set up either way and immediately play with ease and facility - his horns stand in Bb. When you get the linkage reversed, let us know how you do. Regards, Richard Hirsh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] thumb lever action
Hello Daniel, why do you want to change this action ? It is much easier to push (in) the valve (for help with the Bb) than to release it (see the beginning of Rheingold !!). And if you play e.g. Strauss op.11, the beginning of the solo (not the initial fanfare) with the octave slur is much easier started on 1F push the Bb trigger to arrive at the one octave higher f (with 1Bb), or from the two f2 before high Bb, playing the first f2 on 1Bb, release for the second f2 (1F) kick you up to the high Bb with the trigger, like kicking yourself into your back to jump. Think about before changing the trigger. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: embouchure
Sorry, sorry, Valerie, but my ranting was not directed to you, but to the community. And, isn´t it much better, not to speak about ones own very very particular problem, which cannot be places upon the entire community ? We can learn nothing from it. It is more important, than outing oneself, to report on problems which influence a greater number of people ??? players ??? And there we find a lot of hypochondriac people. As you mastered your very particular more the inherited problem with great discipline, you could be an example how discipline can help mastering such problems. But as I said, you mastered it well, but how about many others ... And believe me, I have witnessed a lot of the problems described in this thread. I have encountered a lot of hypochondriac colleagues of all ranks. As a pro you have to keep extreme discipline. Why should it be difficult for semi-pros lay musicians. Merry Christmas a Happy New Year. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Embouchure
Well, all these theories about the influence of food or medication on the embouchure SERVE WELL as a most welcome EXCUSE. The only thing to be avoided would be strong coffee, as it might result in shaking (nerves) but not on the embouchure. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Embouchure
Cinnamon contains some tannic acid as also is in the skin of certain fruits (pears, strawberries e.g.) or fruit juices, which has a negative effect upon mucuous membranes. But this effect is of short duration. Some liquids or pastes used by the dentists have a similar effect. But must not think, it has a negative effect upon ones embouchure as there would be a certain time period between eating or drinking using such substances and playing the horn. If one keeps that in mind, he or she would not intake such during intermissions or just before a concert. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Embouchure
Hello Valerie, all very well said. But didn´t all these precautions all these food supplements CREATE all these allergies together with OUR contribution to the common pollution of the environment ? When I was pre-school early school after 1945 we had no choice what to eat. Important was just getting some food. And surely, we intook a lot of stuff which would nearly kill us today. So we became quite resistant against a lot of bad influences through food. I eat fresh fruits including kiwis pineapples, - nourishing myself by fruits only in the evenings - with exceptions -, have no problems with tomatoes. But I do not eat at all prior to performances. Well, this time is over, as I just perform rarely and only for fun. It meant, I had my last food in the late afternoon prior to driving to the opera. This was never a problem. The body does not need that much food. And all this kind of food did never influence the embouchure. I avoided coffee prior to performances principally except my home brew, as you never know what they mix into the coffee. Certain substances may have a bad influence upon your stomach, which is not good, if you are in a demandig performance. Certain coffees are so strong, that you start shaking at the soli. But it did not influence the embouchure with swelling lips etc. I knew some hypochondric colleagues, who suffered under the influence of quite everything. Poor guys. But I noticed also, that these bad effects on the embouchure due to allergies are more known to amateurs. And we seem to sensibilize ourselves a lot by taking pills against all everything. Our hypochondric approach will eventually kill ourselves sometimes. -Original Message- Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:41:33 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Embouchure From: Valerie WELLS valleriewe...@msn.com To: horn list horn@music.memphis.edu This is going to sound strange. But does anyone know if there are any dietetic things that promote a healthier embouchure - more strength, less fatigue, that kind of thing.Ron, I don't think it's strange at all. I recently posted about my chops being adversely effected by certain foods. Anything that is allergenic, pro-inflammatory or highly acidic can irritate the lips cause them to swell. Some of the effects are short term, some are not. Not only food allergies, but seasonal and environmental allergies can make the lips swell. This is what I do to maintain my embouchure:(1) I limit kiwis, fresh pinneapple, high oxalate foods, tomatoes other shade vegetables. I've read recommendations to avoid citrus fruits, but thankfully haven't noticed any problems from eating them myself. (2) I take low dose antihistamines during allergy season (which is almost year round for me). (3) I take Joint MD as directed on the package. Joint MD is an inexpensive non-drug, dietary supplement made to increase flexibility reduce pain in arthritic joints. This product reduces inflammation ALL over the body, not just the joints and has been beneficial to my chops making me less sensitive to the effects of allergens. (4) I practice The Balanced Embouchure (BE for short) -- Nothing but nothing has made as huge a positive impact on my chops as BE has. BE exercises techniques have made my embouchure more efficient so I don't need brute strength to play high, long strong. I've used BE for 2 1/2 years am very pleased w/ the results. (I've promoted it so successfully in the horn community that the author recently asked me to handle all the BE book sales to horn players. Email me if you are interested.) Valerie Wells in Tacoma___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] practising dilemma
The practising dilemma is a real dilemma, but rather a dilemma of WRONG TEACHING. It is not necessary to practice everything on on, but it is necessary to concentrate the practising effort to the things which dont work as good as desired. One must also be aware of ones own (physical) limitations. It is never necessary to play continuously for one hour, as there are rests always interspersed in the music. This means, playing one etude, but rest a few minutes after the etude, reflect your playing practise the delicate or difficult spots again. Rest again. Practise a solo piece, movement by movement, rest again. What to do during the rests ? Read the next music prepare it brainwise while your lip muscles pause. What do during the next rest ? Erase all the fingering markings FOREVER. Learn to memorize certain fingerings e.g. the f2 on topline with 1Bb if it is flat as open Bb, do the g 2nd line from bottom on open F, if the a1 (2nd space from below) is sharp on a well hear held note, etc, etc. remember that playing a beautiful sounding carrying piano is a much greater art than playing all the forte blast stuff. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom
That is not true, may-be it was so outside Vienna, but they were on high pitch in Vienna then. See the Paris pitch conference around 1850/60. One has to see it in relation to the other ´tonalities used then. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] YouTube - Beethoven Horn Sonata Dennis Brain from BEULAH
A four valve Alex single Bb with a F-extension placed into the shanks of the stopping valve. Later this F-extension was divided to an A-valve-F-extension, folded twice. Did you notice the difference in the look of the horn after the first movement ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] A Practicing dilemma
The practising dilemma is a real dilemma, but rather a dilemma of WRONG TEACHING. It is not necessary to practice everything on on, but it is necessary to concentrate the practising efort to the things which dont work as good as desired. One must also be aware of ones own (physical)limitations. It is never necessary to play continuously for one hour, as there are rests always interspersed in the music. This means, playing one etude, but rest a few minutes after the etude, reflect your playing practise the delicate or difficult spots again. Rest again. Practise a solo piece, movement by movement, rest again. What do during the rests ? Read the next music prepare it brainwise while your lip muscles pause. What do during the next rest ? Erase all the fingering markings FOREVER. Learn to memorize certain fingerings e.g. the f2 on topline with 1Bb if it is flat as open Bb, do the g 2nd line from bottom on open F, if the a1 (2nd space from below) is sharp on a well hear held note, finger it with 3 on F on Bb, if the written Eb is sharp on the F, play it on the Bb no matter in what range, etc Worst would be, if you practise entire symphonies as a tutti player. This is absolutely unnecessary. Practice with your eyes sing the particular passage. It helps to get things into your brain, but saves energy. If you move your fingers if you were using your horn the same time, you will get the things into your fingers also. Very important might be, how you build up your EGO, just as you like including exaggerating your ambitions OR rather realistic, knowing what you can do well what less good. If you have not the chops for the real high passages (means up from written e2 - first space from top - to high c more), leave the higher notes alone let the colleagues take over that part. This is not coward, it is smart. If you cannot reach down to the deep ground and you are better firm in the middle to higher range, try to swap your part with the other player, who struggles with the high notes, but would do it easier in the bottom area ? It is not a shame to do so. But remember, you cannot force things NEVER, things you are not built for. Why practice in the stratosphere if you get giddy too easy in the high altitude You will ruin everything. Why practice in the low, very low, if you play on a tiny mouthpiece. You will profit nothing, but you embouchure will become wobbling without any centered note. Remain realistic about yourself. Put your targets not higher than your potentials. Place the targets lower increase just step by step. Check about your mouthpiece if it is a real horn mouthpiece not a hidden cornet or bugle mouthpiece with thicker rim narrow bore. Do long note exercises, but remember, going up 1/2 step will be followed by 1/2 step down. Do not exceed g2 (on top of the staff) but no limit for the bottom. It will increase tone quality, endurance, security, breath control: start the not at 3 - 4 - go command ALWAYS. Count 4 measures at 4/4 in Andante (speed 72 beats per minute). Practice long notes with crescendo decrescendo, Fp held, ff held, pp increse to f decrease to pp. There are so many variations, explore them. Followed all by a 5 min. rest, then continue with arpeggios in staccato or slurred, plain rhythm or triplets, alsways ending on the good note (tonica). If you cannot remember the single exercises, get a music paper or load it down write your own exercises. See the profit in a while. -Original Message- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:45:18 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] A Practicing dilemma From: sirgallihad sirgalli...@gmail.com To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Hi horn listers, I've been having a sort of practicing dilemma for the past couple weeks, and I was hoping someone could shed some light on my problem. Lately, it seems like the more I practice during a day, the more I loose the feeling of how I should play horn (ie airflow, tone, embrosure pressure, musicality, high range, the list goes on) and I begin to feel like I'm regressing in technique rather than getting better. I am currently practicing for about 2 and 1/2 hrs a day, and the effect is a LOT more pronounced when I try and ease into 3 hours a day (spread into 1 hour chunks). When I do this, my abilities suffer greatly for the next two days or so, and I'm forced to play very little in order to get my sound and endurance back. Additionally, I develop an air leak on one side of my mouth, which is sort of a red flag as to when I'm too tired. If anyone could shed some light on this problem, it would be a huge help for me, Sirgallihad ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom
It sounds most brilliant in E, but is quite taxiing for the horn. But I am sure, he would not mind listen to it when in D or C or Eb. But he would mind, if we would NOT play this wonderful piece. Greetings Hans -Original Message- Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:14:27 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom From: Daniel B. Hrdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu That's good, Hans, I should have ordered it from you. Do you think Schubert would mind all these different keys? Why did he pick E? There are supposed to be certain moods associated with certain keys, but I've never really believed that when it comes to horn playing. Dan message: 3 date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:43:44 +0100 from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] Auf dem Strom That´s the reason, why I published Auf dem Strom in E, Eb, D C Greetings Hans ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] re:Auf dem Strom
The piece is not composed with the horn in the foreground, just decent in the back. And the miking that time when Pears DB recorded it . There are several live recordings with DB. I just remember Holland Festival -Original Message- Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:27:35 +0100 Subject: [Hornlist] re:Auf dem Strom From: Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn list memphis horn@music.memphis.edu I have a recording of Brain and Pears doing Auf dem Strom. I imagine it was quite a struggle for Brain to play loud enough to match Pears. Pears sounds like he is trying to ingest the microphone. LLB ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: Transposition WAS: RE: [Hornlist] Transpostion Assistance
Bob, Wagner did not use different methods while writing his four operas wagner tuba parts. This is not correct. He wrote them the upper pair (Bb) in Eb and the lower pair in Bb-basso - in the score ONLY, but he wished that the single parts were written out in Bb (tuba 1 2) and in F (tuba 3 4), occasionally using bass clef old notatin. There is a remark in the Rheingold score (1st page) that the pars must be written out in this way and this should be the rule for all his future operas. Further, mostly not observed: 2 tenor tubas in B-flat, which corresponds in register to the horns in F and thus be played by he first (rem.: high) players of the third fourth pair of horns, and 2 bass tubas in F, which correspond in register to the low horns in B-flat and thus would be most effectively played by the second players of the horn pairs mentioned. So it might be wise, to assign the Bb tubas to horn 5/7 and the F tuba parts to horns 6/8, the horn parts 5 to 8 be arranged be seated accordingly. It does not matter much in Rheingold, as there are just a few more notes left for the horns after the introduction the rest be just tuba. In Walkuere the horns 5 - 8 play tuba for the acts 1/2 and horn in act 3. Siegfried does not bring conflicts either, as horns 5-8 resp. tubas 1 - 4 have not much to do in the first two acts, but play horn exclusively in act 3. Conflicts occur in Goetterdaemmerung, so the parts must be arranged as said above, so horn 6 is a high player playing tuba 2 in Bb and horn 6, which is a bit lower than usual for this position. Player of horn seven has to play tuba 3 in F, which should be the appropriate range but also playing horn 7 which is a bit higher than the usual range for this position. This should be logical tradition in Munich Vienna elsewhere in Germany. High horns play the Bb tubas low horns play the F tubas and the players have to arrange themselves, a no problem in the modern horn world. As we used the first (means the parts of the premieres their copies later) tuba parts evere here in Munich, there were some very practical tricks implemented. The rather low pars were written out in F-basso so to avoid the many ledger lines remain in trebble clef. Richard Strauss hads his very special methode to avoid too many accidentals in his horn parts: he used transposition. So the horn parts are quite clean only those notes have accidentals, where must keep attention. Greetings from unusual cold Munich (5 centigrades mid afternoon) Hans ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
