RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
The horn used by Hermann Bauman is a high G horn definitely, just confirmed by my friend Hermann Baumann two minutes ago by phone. As this recording is nearly 40 years old, the horn must be of the same age. There is nothing altered on the horn. I see on the picture, that the main tube enters the valve section by passing by the third valve, which is not within the main circle but outside for technical reason (´keeping the main circle as wide as possible with this short tube). G-horn requires the player to use 1-3 for the written D-horn g1 (our e1 on the F-horn). Enough information. BTW: Hermann Prey, the wonderful bariton singer (We did Auf dem Strom in transposed version to C together many times), is not the ideal singer for the Quoniam, as this aria would require a bass better than a bariton. But Hermann Preys voice his style sound as he would just speak the text in the classical way of the antique drama in Greece perhaps.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:57 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Owning the Alexander high G with the F extension I do no find Baumann's instrument to be any permutation of the 105. It looks far closer to the 99 in high Bb. Yet there is a variation: the main tuning slide is longer than on the Bb version. I am fairly sure this instrument is in high A with only 3 valves. The old movie is washed out in details and colours on my screen. However I see no stay or rolled ends of tubing indicating a semitone extension piece in the main tuning slide. If any would have the position to ask Alexander for a special version, then Baumann. My take is, that this is a special A version of the 99. That pitch also would be logical considering, that the trumpeters use their piccolos mostly with the A leadpipe in the Baroque repertoire. Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre --- Pandolfi, Orlando [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bob. It looks like an Alex f to me as well, although I continue to be confused by the fingering Hermann is using. Perhaps there is something going on with the fourth valve that I'm not catching, Either that or there are some quirks to that particular horn that he has figured out. Any thoughts? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] u] On Behalf Of Robert Osmun Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:59 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Sorry Bob, with the F-alto Alex the main tube would enter the valve section regularly not passing by the third valve. Should I send you a picture of my high F (also over 40 years old in best - mint like - condition). == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Haflich Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:38 PM To: The Horn List; Robert Osmun Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus From: Robert Osmun [EMAIL PROTECTED] The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Indeed! But I was a little put off that the bassoonists never appeared on camera. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Well, Orlando, at one moment it looks if the were a movement of a 4rth valve, but that is an optical error. This old fashion linkage looks like some movement, but it is from another of the three valves. I got the horn in my hands a few years ago. And Hermann just told me, that he still uses this horn. I used a single high F Alex most of the time when playing high stuff, but used the single F Viennese (rotary valves) for two concerts with the Missa. If the high a2 is perfect, no problem. Requires a light embouchure only soft playing. I also used a high-F-high-Bb hybrid small bell horn for the extreme pieces. This horn was built as high Bb soprano but had the tumb valve reversed, so it was pitched in high F I could switch to high Bb soprano instantly, but had a special device on the first valve slide holding the slide in position, so I could push it shorter within a second, when switching to the extreme Bb-soprano. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pandolfi, Orlando Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:23 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Bob. It looks like an Alex f to me as well, although I continue to be confused by the fingering Hermann is using. Perhaps there is something going on with the fourth valve that I'm not catching, Either that or there are some quirks to that particular horn that he has figured out. Any thoughts? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] u] On Behalf Of Robert Osmun Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:59 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmu n.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40de erfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Thank you Hans. I didn't know of the existence of an Alex G, but why not? The fingerings looked like what one would use if in G, so I should have guessed. As I look more closely, I can see only three rotors, yet I was confused by the extra loop on the player's side that looked like another valve crook. We don't frequently see such instruments in the states...standard doubles double descants, and of course, the sports models. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hans Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:08 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Well, Orlando, at one moment it looks if the were a movement of a 4rth valve, but that is an optical error. This old fashion linkage looks like some movement, but it is from another of the three valves. I got the horn in my hands a few years ago. And Hermann just told me, that he still uses this horn. I used a single high F Alex most of the time when playing high stuff, but used the single F Viennese (rotary valves) for two concerts with the Missa. If the high a2 is perfect, no problem. Requires a light embouchure only soft playing. I also used a high-F-high-Bb hybrid small bell horn for the extreme pieces. This horn was built as high Bb soprano but had the tumb valve reversed, so it was pitched in high F I could switch to high Bb soprano instantly, but had a special device on the first valve slide holding the slide in position, so I could push it shorter within a second, when switching to the extreme Bb-soprano. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pandolfi, Orlando Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:23 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Bob. It looks like an Alex f to me as well, although I continue to be confused by the fingering Hermann is using. Perhaps there is something going on with the fourth valve that I'm not catching, Either that or there are some quirks to that particular horn that he has figured out. Any thoughts? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] u] On Behalf Of Robert Osmun Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:59 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmu n.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40de erfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40deerfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
I recently obtained a recording of Bach's Mass in B Minor performed by the Vienna State Opera Orchestra, conducted by Hermann Scherchen. Any ideas as to who the horn player might be? It doesn't sound like Roland Berger (perhaps Hans Berger?) The recording (from 1960), is on the Westminster label and is quite good. Singers include Pierrette Alarie, Nan Merriman, Leopold Simoneau, and Gustav Neidlinger (famous for his Alberich is Solti's Ring cycle). Best wishes, Paul Rincon ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Perhaps Wolfgang Tomböck sen. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Could have been either Josef Veleba or Wolfgang Tomboeck senior. I´ ll call Wolfgang tomorrow ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmun.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
It probably wasn't that old when he played it! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:24 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Thank you Bob Is it an old Alexander model? I can see that it's not the modern model 105. http://p30983.typo3server.info/typo3temp/pics/b7137273e0.jpg On Baumann's horn the position of the bell tale on the 3rd valve is the same used on model 99. http://p30983.typo3server.info/typo3temp/pics/497d0b2c47.jpg Thank you very much Robson 2008/2/29, Robert Osmun [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmun.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/robson.adabo%40gmail.co m ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmun.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Thank you Bob Is it an old Alexander model? I can see that it's not the modern model 105. http://p30983.typo3server.info/typo3temp/pics/b7137273e0.jpg On Baumann's horn the position of the bell tale on the 3rd valve is the same used on model 99. http://p30983.typo3server.info/typo3temp/pics/497d0b2c47.jpg Thank you very much Robson 2008/2/29, Robert Osmun [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmun.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/robson.adabo%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Hi Bob. It looks like an Alex f to me as well, although I continue to be confused by the fingering Hermann is using. Perhaps there is something going on with the fourth valve that I'm not catching, Either that or there are some quirks to that particular horn that he has figured out. Any thoughts? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Osmun Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:59 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmun.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40deerfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Owning the Alexander high G with the F extension I do no find Baumann's instrument to be any permutation of the 105. It looks far closer to the 99 in high Bb. Yet there is a variation: the main tuning slide is longer than on the Bb version. I am fairly sure this instrument is in high A with only 3 valves. The old movie is washed out in details and colours on my screen. However I see no stay or rolled ends of tubing indicating a semitone extension piece in the main tuning slide. If any would have the position to ask Alexander for a special version, then Baumann. My take is, that this is a special A version of the 99. That pitch also would be logical considering, that the trumpeters use their piccolos mostly with the A leadpipe in the Baroque repertoire. Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre --- Pandolfi, Orlando [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bob. It looks like an Alex f to me as well, although I continue to be confused by the fingering Hermann is using. Perhaps there is something going on with the fourth valve that I'm not catching, Either that or there are some quirks to that particular horn that he has figured out. Any thoughts? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Osmun Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:59 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus Hi Robson, The horn is an Alexander f alto descant. And that is some truly wonderful hornplaying. Bob Osmun www.osmun.com PS-To Richard Burdick: VMI and Hoyer are both brand names owned by JA Musik. After reunification Gerhard Meinl bought up most of the small makers in and around Markneukirchen and reasssembled them under one roof. They're really trying hard to make a high quality product. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robson Adabo de Mello Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus What's the horn that Hermann Baumann is using on this video? Is it a G descant horn? What's the brand? Bach - B minor Mass - 11 - Quoniam tu solus sanctus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5DYhyiJtoE Thank you very much Robson Ps. Do you have any other video with descant horn? Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
