RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Why not using the blank brush to clean the toothpaste away too ? Ooops, it does not smell good without toothpaste. Why not buying a new teethbrush once a while ??? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herbert Foster Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 5:17 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope Um, are you trying to tell me something, Loren?? Actually, I doubt that the rinsing we can do in the less than ideal accommodations on the road alway removes all the toothpaste grit. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
I have seen valve rotors full of cheese (kaese !). Yes, if the rotors are taken out of their case (casings !), and be polished by the player often, they will wear indeed. I got the pun. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Mansur Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 3:51 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope Ah, Yes! But will it prevent valve wear OUTSIDE the cases? That's when my valves wear! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Um, are you trying to tell me something, Loren?? Actually, I doubt that the rinsing we can do in the less than ideal accommodations on the road alway removes all the toothpaste grit. Herb Foster --- Loren Mayhew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now Herb, you know that it is very important to play the horn with good > breath; bad breath can lead to sour notes! So if you don't use toothpaste to > brush (and then rinse well) then you should gargle with Listerine or Scope. > :-) > > Loren Mayhew > \@() > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (520) 403-6897 > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Herbert Foster > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope > > Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent > (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. > > Herb Foster > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Ah, Yes! But will it prevent valve wear OUTSIDE the cases? That's when my valves wear! P Mansur On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 05:41 AM, Graeme Evans wrote: Hans wrote: Pack a tooth cleaning pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Now Herb, you know that it is very important to play the horn with good breath; bad breath can lead to sour notes! So if you don't use toothpaste to brush (and then rinse well) then you should gargle with Listerine or Scope. :-) Loren Mayhew \@() [EMAIL PROTECTED] (520) 403-6897 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herbert Foster Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. Herb Foster ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
What does ruin the valves more: dirt particles or not enough oiling ? Simple: if there is NO oil-water-film at all, valves might stuck or not (titanium or bronze valves do not stuck !). If you water them or oil them again, they will move again. If you try to turn them very hard instead, you might ruin them. But remember, the valve action cannot be compared to a simple engines spinning, where even just a little amount of oil is necessary to preserve the spindle from wear. LITTLE AMOUNT OF OIL. BUT: foreign particles as aggressive dust, food particles, acidic particles, all combined, contribute a lot to valve damage. The tolerances between valve casing & rotor are minimal, but still, some particles might be squeezed in between. Then the valves come slow in action. Understood now ? I dont think so, as too many do not want to understand. But it is very funny for me to observe, that as soon as I touch the "change your attitude, change your habit" topic, all come with many arguments of EXCUSE. Yes, these are mostly arguments of EXCUSE for ones own failure. Is it so difficult to accept it, if one points to the right point on you, to your weak point ??? I once had a colleague, who had difficulties with the c#2 (2nd space from top, whatever horn he blew. And I showed him, that the c#2 was there on all these horns. He simply NEVER adjusted the slides as they should be. But when he did not sound well with the c#2, he had this common excuse: "Sorry, the c#2 does not speak very well on this horn." These kind of excuses are not acceptable as they are just used to camouflage the players failure, his or her inability or unwillingness to change a certain attitude. Yesterday we played Puccini´s "Manon Lescaut", this wonderful lyric & dramatic master piece, and my young colleague wondered after the performance, "why do you sometimes play the written forte as forte & sometimes just as a mere solo piano" ? I answered to him, that one has to listen to the other voices in the orchestra, understand the importance of ones own part or its accompanying character plus listen to the singers, to adapt the dynamic level as well as the emphasis on the notes. He has never got to play these many little show or song or parade pieces for horn & piano. His teacher (very well known) never worked on such (silly, in his opinion) pieces to develop the right feeling for taste, nor has his teacher told him to get some information about the stories of the most popular operas. My colleague got this message now & will try to acquire the missing things now. This was only to illustrate what I said above. He also became upset when I first told him about things I miss with his musical education, but he has understood now the difference between my playing & his playing, and he must match with me, otherwise a further cooperation would become difficult. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graeme Evans Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 10:41 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope Hans wrote: >Pack a tooth cleaning >pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It >is more important than oiling the horn every week. and then: > Oooops. Typical plucking the words. I never said that clean mouth & > teeth "will prevent valve wear more than oiling", but it has a lot to do > with "sticking valves" - I repeat: STICKING VALVES, SLOWING VALVES. ??!! ! Cheers, Graeme Evans (Principal Horn, Melbourne Symphony Orchestra) +61 3 9318 0690(H), +61 419 880371(B), +61 3 93180893(Fax) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Hans wrote: >Pack a tooth cleaning >pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It >is more important than oiling the horn every week. and then: > Oooops. Typical plucking the words. I never said that clean mouth & > teeth "will prevent valve wear more than oiling", but it has a lot to do > with "sticking valves" - I repeat: STICKING VALVES, SLOWING VALVES. ??!!! Cheers, Graeme Evans (Principal Horn, Melbourne Symphony Orchestra) +61 3 9318 0690(H), +61 419 880371(B), +61 3 93180893(Fax) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Oooops. Typical plucking the words. I never said that clean mouth & teeth "will prevent valve wear more than oiling", but it has a lot to do with "sticking valves" - I repeat: STICKING VALVES, SLOWING VALVES. - well, those particles do not stuck on the inside wall of the instrument but at the corners (valve section, soldering points). Indeed, oiling is good, if not done in excess, as too much oil accumulates also dust. If the oil is not the right one . And the "red rot" ??? The horn factories do not clean away the excess solder by hand but by a chemical bath, which is quite aggressive. If this chemical is not neutralized properly by extensive rinsing or another bath, the metal is ruined forever. Ken said: Red rot comes from inside the horn. Yes, off course, but created by the chemical situation inside the horn, which is caused to a greater deal by the USER´s habit (saliva, food, drinks, cleaning, oiling inside perhaps - I hate that smell & taste - etc.), but also caused by players demand to get a cheap priced horn & factories forced to production methods to save costs. They could use goldbrass lead pipes instead of brass, or at least special yellow brass. The same would apply to the valve rotors. If they are made of an alloy which is more resistant against wear (like bronze-brass or shipbuilding brass - never seen ? Watch the sailing boats which have a lot of brass, which is even seawater resistant for a long time.) But these things would increase the prices for a few percent. But I repeat here: the main factor is the human factor, the negligence of the users-players. Dents in the horn ? Pack it in the case whenever you leave the horn alone. Hold it properly infront of your chest & wrap it with both arms or at least left arm when walking to the stage or the pit. Just a change of habit will save you a lot of trouble & money. A micro fibre small towel to clean the "touching points" of your horn after use, will keep the horn "shiny" even it is not lacquered, but not forever but for a longer while. Just discipline. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Foster, I suppose you'll rinse the toothpaste off your oral cavity after brushing your teeth, so I don't think toothpaste will go to the valves if we brushed our teeth using toothpaste beforehand. Simone - Original Message - From: "Herbert Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "The Horn List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope > Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent > (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. > > Herb Foster > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hans Writes: >>>>No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, > > during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly > > BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning > > pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It > > is more important than oiling the horn every week. > > > > I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first > > day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are > > still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two > > months.>>>> > > > > > > Hans,,, Wrong Wrong Wrong.. > > Perhaps that worked for you, but I would never tell anyone that brushing > > their teeth before playing will prevent valve wear more than oiling. > > Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! (and I'm even trying to be subtle here) > > The act of oiling creates a thin film on the bore of the instrument - so > > all those food particles, and acids etc can't attach to the brass and > > cause dezincification - and eventually valve wear. > > Hans, by the way, dezinicification/redrot - is NOT the redness that > > occurs due to tarnishing,,, it starts on the INSIDE of the horn. During > > our last go around on this subject you described something that was NOT > > dezincification > > > > So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops > > every other day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card > > handy) > > > > Signed: > > > > Pope Ken Pope Alexander > > > > > > > > "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" > > > > > > Dealer of Kuhn and Durk Horns > > Pope Instrument Repair > > 80 Wenham Street > > Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 > > 617-522-0532 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:00 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 > > > > Send Horn mailing list submissions to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." > > > > > > Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include > > the entire digest in your reply. > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >1. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Steve Selby) > >2. KEN THE POPE? (jdelarosa) > >3. Pope Pope (Ralph Mazza) > >4. Re: Horn testing (kerri c davies) > >5. Getting a job at Holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >6. Re: Re: Horn testing (Russ Smiley) > >7. New 6D old 6D (Leonard & Peggy Brown) > >8. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Hans Pizka) > >9. RE: Re: Horn testing (Hans Pizka) > > 10. Alex serial #'s (Jeremy Ristow) > > 11. Re: Alex serial #'s (Wilbert Kimple) > > 12. RE: Alex serial #'s (Jonathan West) > > 13. RE: Alex serial #'s (Hans Pizka) > > 14. Re: New 6D old 6D (Alan Cole) > > 15. Re: Alex serial #'s (Alan Cole) > > 16. Re: Alex serial #'s ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > > > > -- > > > > message: 1 > > date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) > > from: Steve Selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn > &
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Spill the cleaning agent with a lot of water, but dont ask me how many liters. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herbert Foster Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. Herb Foster --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hans Writes: No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, > during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly > BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning > pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It > is more important than oiling the horn every week. > > I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first > day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are > still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two > months. > > > Hans,,, Wrong Wrong Wrong.. > Perhaps that worked for you, but I would never tell anyone that brushing > their teeth before playing will prevent valve wear more than oiling. > Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! (and I'm even trying to be subtle here) > The act of oiling creates a thin film on the bore of the instrument - so > all those food particles, and acids etc can't attach to the brass and > cause dezincification - and eventually valve wear. > Hans, by the way, dezinicification/redrot - is NOT the redness that > occurs due to tarnishing,,, it starts on the INSIDE of the horn. During > our last go around on this subject you described something that was NOT > dezincification > > So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops > every other day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card > handy) > > Signed: > > Pope Ken Pope Alexander > > > > "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" > > > Dealer of Kuhn and Durk Horns > Pope Instrument Repair > 80 Wenham Street > Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 > 617-522-0532 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 > > Send Horn mailing list submissions to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." > > > Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include > the entire digest in your reply. > > Today's Topics: > >1. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Steve Selby) >2. KEN THE POPE? (jdelarosa) >3. Pope Pope (Ralph Mazza) >4. Re: Horn testing (kerri c davies) >5. Getting a job at Holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >6. Re: Re: Horn testing (Russ Smiley) >7. New 6D old 6D (Leonard & Peggy Brown) >8. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Hans Pizka) >9. RE: Re: Horn testing (Hans Pizka) > 10. Alex serial #'s (Jeremy Ristow) > 11. Re: Alex serial #'s (Wilbert Kimple) > 12. RE: Alex serial #'s (Jonathan West) > 13. RE: Alex serial #'s (Hans Pizka) > 14. Re: New 6D old 6D (Alan Cole) > 15. Re: Alex serial #'s (Alan Cole) > 16. Re: Alex serial #'s ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > -- > > message: 1 > date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) > from: Steve Selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn > > It's fascinating to watch the discussions on whether a > different horn makes a large difference in one's > playing. On the one hand are professionals like Hans > with plenty of skill and time that can adapt to > virtually any horn in a short amount of time. On the > other are many of us amateurs hoping that investing in > a new horn will compensate for a lack of available > time to practice, along with (perhaps) less natural > ability. Along with the "tinkerers", both ameteur and > professional that are constantly trying new horns, > mouthpieces, leadpipes, bells, garlands, wraps, etc. > > I've seen many of the same arguments in sports. > Athletes that have a lot of raw talent sometimes > ignore technique and training, relying on their > physical gifts and telling others to "just do it". > Less gifted athletes hope that focus on technique and > relentless training can compensate for their lack of > ability. Of course, the best athletes combine > abundant talent with flawless technique and training. > Same with horn. > > > > = > Steve Selby > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > -- > > message: 2 > date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:55:20 -0500 > from: "jdelarosa"
[Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
"Pope Ken Pope Alexander" writes: >>> So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops every other >>> day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card handy)>>> Ken, Are you recommending that we continue brushing our teeth because it's good for our teeth and gums, or because it's good for the horn (or both)? --Matt An amateur even more rank than Alan Cole ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Hans Writes: No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It is more important than oiling the horn every week. I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two months. Hans,,, Wrong Wrong Wrong.. Perhaps that worked for you, but I would never tell anyone that brushing their teeth before playing will prevent valve wear more than oiling. Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! (and I'm even trying to be subtle here) The act of oiling creates a thin film on the bore of the instrument - so all those food particles, and acids etc can't attach to the brass and cause dezincification - and eventually valve wear. Hans, by the way, dezinicification/redrot - is NOT the redness that occurs due to tarnishing,,, it starts on the INSIDE of the horn. During our last go around on this subject you described something that was NOT dezincification So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops every other day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card handy) Signed: Pope Ken Pope Alexander "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" Dealer of Kuhn and Durk Horns Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 Send Horn mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include the entire digest in your reply. Today's Topics: 1. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Steve Selby) 2. KEN THE POPE? (jdelarosa) 3. Pope Pope (Ralph Mazza) 4. Re: Horn testing (kerri c davies) 5. Getting a job at Holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 6. Re: Re: Horn testing (Russ Smiley) 7. New 6D old 6D (Leonard & Peggy Brown) 8. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Hans Pizka) 9. RE: Re: Horn testing (Hans Pizka) 10. Alex serial #'s (Jeremy Ristow) 11. Re: Alex serial #'s (Wilbert Kimple) 12. RE: Alex serial #'s (Jonathan West) 13. RE: Alex serial #'s (Hans Pizka) 14. Re: New 6D old 6D (Alan Cole) 15. Re: Alex serial #'s (Alan Cole) 16. Re: Alex serial #'s ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- message: 1 date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) from: Steve Selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn It's fascinating to watch the discussions on whether a different horn makes a large difference in one's playing. On the one hand are professionals like Hans with plenty of skill and time that can adapt to virtually any horn in a short amount of time. On the other are many of us amateurs hoping that investing in a new horn will compensate for a lack of available time to practice, along with (perhaps) less natural ability. Along with the "tinkerers", both ameteur and professional that are constantly trying new horns, mouthpieces, leadpipes, bells, garlands, wraps, etc. I've seen many of the same arguments in sports. Athletes that have a lot of raw talent sometimes ignore technique and training, relying on their physical gifts and telling others to "just do it". Less gifted athletes hope that focus on technique and relentless training can compensate for their lack of ability. Of course, the best athletes combine abundant talent with flawless technique and training. Same with horn. = Steve Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- message: 2 date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:55:20 -0500 from: "jdelarosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: [Hornlist] KEN THE POPE? Jay: Why not go full circle and name him Pope Alexander? Julio de la Rosa - Original Message - From: "Jay Kosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Horn List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: WES-factory horn testing - NHR > Baucom, Fred writes: > > > > > Another question: if Ken somehow becomes the next Pope, w
