RE: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Just Ft.Wayne Washington D.C. - on family visit. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of peter piper Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn? Prof. Pizka, Where will you be in the USA? Sincerely, Peter Henderson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
2008/4/24 Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I play a Vienna Horn and my community orchestra has programmed Mahler's 4th for our next program. I've been assigned 3rd Horn since the pedal F notes in the 2nd and 4th parts are generally not assumed to be playable on a single F horn. I was hoping you could provide me with the solution used by Vienna Horn players for this not, since these parts were in all likelihood written for them. I have a copy of all four parts to hand. The bass clef passages are old notation. The only pedal F I can find is in the 4th part, last movement, rehearsal mark 10, where the 2nd 4th horns are in octaves for a slow pianissimo passage, the 4th starting on a minim pedal F, and going on to crotchet G, A, minim B, then crotchet A, G followed by a final minim F. The tempo marking is Wieder plotzlich zuruckhaltend (apologies Hans for not including the necessary umlauts). In other words, the passage is fairly slow and very quiet, which I imagine would leave an opportunity for the player to use hand and lip to push the pitch down to F from F#. As 2nd is playing the same passage an octave above, you would have a good reference pitch for the purpose of adjusting the tuning. Challenging for a single F horn, Vienna or otherwise, but by no means impossible. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Couldn't it be played as a false note on first valve? Actually, I have found that false notes are sharp, so 12 might be better. My false notes are not strong, but I should think that a good player would be fairly strong. I forget the technical term for false note, but it means the same thing. Herb Foster - Original Message From: Jonathan West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:01:12 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn? 2008/4/24 Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I play a Vienna Horn and my community orchestra has programmed Mahler's 4th for our next program. I've been assigned 3rd Horn since the pedal F notes in the 2nd and 4th parts are generally not assumed to be playable on a single F horn. I was hoping you could provide me with the solution used by Vienna Horn players for this not, since these parts were in all likelihood written for them. I have a copy of all four parts to hand. The bass clef passages are old notation. The only pedal F I can find is in the 4th part, last movement, rehearsal mark 10, where the 2nd 4th horns are in octaves for a slow pianissimo passage, the 4th starting on a minim pedal F, and going on to crotchet G, A, minim B, then crotchet A, G followed by a final minim F. The tempo marking is Wieder plotzlich zuruckhaltend (apologies Hans for not including the necessary umlauts). In other words, the passage is fairly slow and very quiet, which I imagine would leave an opportunity for the player to use hand and lip to push the pitch down to F from F#. As 2nd is playing the same passage an octave above, you would have a good reference pitch for the purpose of adjusting the tuning. Challenging for a single F horn, Vienna or otherwise, but by no means impossible. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
I think you mean factitious note. That is, a manufactured note that isn't on the horn. Such as the low G in the Beethoven Sonata for natural horn. It's pretty easy to produce. Paul Mansur On Apr 25, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Herbert Foster wrote: Couldn't it be played as a false note on first valve? Actually, I have found that false notes are sharp, so 12 might be better. My false notes are not strong, but I should think that a good player would be fairly strong. I forget the technical term for false note, but it means the same thing. Herb Foster ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Right you are. It's factitious note. With all our sports car gadgets, we forget about such things. Herb Foster - Original Message From: Paul Mansur [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:09:11 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn? I think you mean factitious note. That is, a manufactured note that isn't on the horn. Such as the low G in the Beethoven Sonata for natural horn. It's pretty easy to produce. Paul Mansur On Apr 25, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Herbert Foster wrote: Couldn't it be played as a false note on first valve? Actually, I have found that false notes are sharp, so 12 might be better. My false notes are not strong, but I should think that a good player would be fairly strong. I forget the technical term for false note, but it means the same thing. Herb Foster ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Hans We're having the same problem again of the body of your messages not coming through Regards Jonathan West 2008/4/25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jwest%40mvps.org ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Hello Jonathan, I´ll try it again: This is the old problem: people forget completely that modern bass clef was not in use around 1900. It came into use after WW2. Players conductors seem not to know that fact. But anyway, this particular concert Contra B-flat is not an important note there. It is in p dynamics doubled an octave higher by the 2nd horn, as you wrote. There would be a chance to use an E-flat crook pull all three slides out accordingly, if the passage would be that important. It is not ! And playing it as factitious note is not the right way. 123 plus right hand plus eventual bending the missing interval is much better easier. Both techniques require a very good ear. Greetings Hans -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan West Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 2:01 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn? 2008/4/24 Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I play a Vienna Horn and my community orchestra has programmed Mahler's 4th for our next program. I've been assigned 3rd Horn since the pedal F notes in the 2nd and 4th parts are generally not assumed to be playable on a single F horn. I was hoping you could provide me with the solution used by Vienna Horn players for this not, since these parts were in all likelihood written for them. I have a copy of all four parts to hand. The bass clef passages are old notation. The only pedal F I can find is in the 4th part, last movement, rehearsal mark 10, where the 2nd 4th horns are in octaves for a slow pianissimo passage, the 4th starting on a minim pedal F, and going on to crotchet G, A, minim B, then crotchet A, G followed by a final minim F. The tempo marking is Wieder plotzlich zuruckhaltend (apologies Hans for not including the necessary umlauts). In other words, the passage is fairly slow and very quiet, which I imagine would leave an opportunity for the player to use hand and lip to push the pitch down to F from F#. As 2nd is playing the same passage an octave above, you would have a good reference pitch for the purpose of adjusting the tuning. Challenging for a single F horn, Vienna or otherwise, but by no means impossible. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Hello Mark, sorry I do not find my CDs with all the Mahler parts. Can you scan the relevant page send me as an email attachement, please. Pls rush as I will leave for USA next thursday. Anyway, I doubt if he used the written low F below low C. It is possible on the F horn but a very weak note: 123 plus right hand lips. This would not be of any effect. as I do not remember much Mahler (I am not a great Mahler fan), the part would be of great help. But Mahler was in Vienna that time. Stiegler was there Romagnoli. It makes no sense to me. And is it important ??? Waiting for your reply. Greetings Hans ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Mark- I heard the Vienna Philharmonic play Mahler's Third symphony in Carnegie hall about 5 years ago.? One player took out the regular F crook of his horn and played those written low? E's on an A crook. On the Bernstein DVD of this symphony Hans Berger is playing a b-flat horn so I'm sure he handled those low E's perfectly. Pete Jilka Kansas City -Original Message- From: Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:26 pm Subject: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn? Lieber Herrn Hans Pizka! Koennen Sie Mir bitte Helfen? I'm not sure how to post to you privately, but perhaps others on the list will find this question of interest. I play a Vienna Horn and my community orchestra has programmed Mahler's 4th for our next program. I've been assigned 3rd Horn since the pedal F notes in the 2nd and 4th parts are generally not assumed to be playable on a single F horn. I was hoping you could provide me with the solution used by Vienna Horn players for this not, since these parts were in all likelihood written for them. Herzlichen Dank, Mark Phillips Symphony of the Potomac Rockville, MD ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pmjilka%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Prof. Pizka, Where will you be in the USA? Sincerely, Peter Henderson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
