Re: [Hornlist] Horn Buying
Back when I was a freshman, you got a single F with an Eb crook, and were glad of it. Seriously, I didn't get my first decent horn until I was a junior. It was a brand new Reynolds. I would have preferred an 8D, but my band director didn't know an agent for 8D, only John Coffee in Boston, and he had Reynolds and Holton. The Reynolds had a higher list price than the Holton or the 8D, so I picked the Reynolds. Even though I have collected nearly twenty horns since then, I still have the Reynolds, and I've yet to find a big horn that is demonstrably better. I do have an Elkhart 8D, that is really nice, but I still like the Reynolds better. Interestingly, The Reynolds I got is one of the early heavy bell Chambers models, and it really is that good, just by chance. The Holton I turned down was the original model 77, and the few I've come across from that era in the late fifties, early sixties, have all been exquisite horns, cherished by their owners. The discounted price for the Reynolds was $479, on a list of $715, compared to list of $695 for the Conn and Holton. Not too long ago I got an Abilene Chambers for my wife, for $210, on eBay, and it plays great, now that the bell isn't crushed. She greatly prefers it to the 8D. As good as the 8D is, she finds it fatiguing, which negates her nice sound. I just put a Lawson pipe on the 8D, and I'm loaning it to a guy making a comeback in the Saddleback Orchestra. I'm just throwing this all out to point out the personal nature of horns, and the perception of value that tribal myth adds to the confusion. I was lucky when I got my first horn. Of course, I was a junior, and your only a freshman. And back then you had to be pretty nearly an adult to go to high school. I drive by the last few years, and see they're letting little kids in now. I started collecting horns in an attempt to find out for myself what makes a horn good or bad. If you line them up, it should be easy. What I've found is that I need at least two horns to cover the range of music I play. I need a big horn if I'm going to play flat out with the big boys, and a smaller, agile horn makes playing quieter, and more complex music so much more enjoyable. As a big horn, my Reynolds is untouchable. It's a great all around horn, but nobody can overblow it. It's forte is forte. Really cranking, several conductors have commented that it adds a 'shimmer' to the whole section sound, but it was designed specifically to match an 8D, so Chambers could play it in the New York Phil. According to his interview with Osmun, he only used it two or three seasons. For a small horn, I play a Paxman 42, medium bell, double Bb, but with an F attachment. It weighs far less than a triple, but gives me the option of playing C, E, and G on an open F horn to keep my tone honest, but I was taught to play fourth horn mostly on the B side. When combined with the F alt capabilities, this horn has more usable range than any horn I've ever played. It also has the beautiful Paxman sound if I'm playing in that kind of section where the 8D clone might be inappropriate. This horn was a great deal, but not cheap, $2700, when I got it from Osmun. It's from the seventies, but in beautiful shape, and I could sell it here in LA for far more than I paid. From my collection, I could put together several other combinations of two horns. My wife is taking a real liking to a small, King, Bb horn that really came to life when I recently tightened the bearings. Converting her old 8D to the Lawson pipe seems to have made it a better all around horn, but her Chambers is a better choice for big stuff, now that she has the option to play intricate parts on the small horn. Since I rely on two completely different instruments, I find I can now make valid comparisons between different horns, but I compare to only one of my horns. The ironic thing is, if I found a horn that was specifically better than one of my present working horns, I could probably pick it up cheap because it won't be a satisfactory all around player. You probably can't go wrong buying a new 8D, I got lucky. However, the one myth I find that does have some basis in fact is that vintage instruments are better than what they're making now. Over the years, the dogs get trashed, and the good ones get cherished. In your position, since you have access to a workable big horn, I'd sink my money into a really good smaller horn. Even though you'll find yourself using the smaller horn most of the time, you'll have the big school horn if you have to play outdoors, or something. A really high end used horn is within your price range. Some of the Geyer wrap horns might be good candidates. There are worldwide listings on the web. I bought my Paxman, sight unseen, from Osmun when I was living in San Jose. We exchanged a check for the horn, and he held the check until I had a good chance to try it out.
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Buying
Another source for both new and used is Wichita Band Instrument. http://www.wichitaband.com/ A number of years ago, they could and would arrange factory visits into Holton and, I believe, Conn, and the prices were better than anywhere else, period. (And if you wanted either a Holton or a Conn, you certainly wanted to pick it out, since the consistency of manufacture was nothing like Yamaha's.) After a look at the website, I'm not sure their price advantage remains absolute, but they are indeed worth checking out. They will indeed ship on approval (you pay the freight, of course). I don't see either new Yamahas or Conns, but Holtons, Alexanders, and Paxmans. It appears they own a piece of Paxman. Used stuff is, of course, any make they happen to have. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, Im thinking of buying a horn for myself, Im a freshman in HS and I am playing on a repaired Holton H180 (in 8th grade i was playing on a Holton H179, the valves sounded like a percusion section.). I take lessons and such. I wanna buy a new french horn for myself, so I dont have to worry about the school taking it, and I dont want to play on something people have treated like crap. I was thinking of buying a Conn 8D with gold or rosebrass and a detachable bell, what model would that make it? Or a Hans Hoyer horn, (my lesson teacher is using one, and I lover her sound), but I dont know which model. There is one problem, my local music store doesnt have horns on shelf, or in there stock (there not gonna have $3000 instruments on shelf when they are not in demand down here.), so what they do is, they special order them for the serious customer, so I cant try them out. Niether can my lesson teacher. Are Conn 8D's and Hoyer Horns more consistent from horn to horn (same brand and model) now days, with our technology? Should I special order one? What are the chances it plays like a piece of crap? Also what other models of horns from different brands do you recommend that are good (and are very consistent from horn to horn, without trying them out) , and are within a $2500-$4200 price range? Your comments and advice will greatly be appreciated. Michael K. P.S. How are the Conn 8D horns nowadays (new, not old ones) and the Hoyers? And what model would a Conn 8D be if I wanted it in gold or rosebrass, with a detachable bell? Thank you. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brunelle%40acm.org ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn Buying
If you are just in a past beginner state of horn playing, why do you think so much about buying a new one ? Keep your money together until you have advanced to a higher class of playing. I had a 14-year boy in a recent class in New Zealand. He played on a old single F military no name horn & produced a very nice sound. I tried the horn & played a solo piece for the class, as I liked the sound of the horn. It is the player, who makes the sound. Keep the old school horn in good condition & care about if it were yours & new. Study carefully to advance. (Remember: I said Carefully not Hard). If you have arrived at near pro level (or higher class amateur level), you have enough time & money to shop around for your own new horn. Check the bumpers on your valves, use some thicker oil for he linkage to reduce the noise. Watch, if the valves rattle if you play common stuff or if they just get noisy when you try to move them fast, which does not happen in the literature except for valve trills. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 4:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Horn Buying Hello everyone, Im thinking of buying a horn for myself, Im a freshman in HS and I am playing on a repaired Holton H180 (in 8th grade i was playing on a Holton H179, the valves sounded like a percusion section.). ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn Buying
Yes, this is a dilemma, trying to find the right horn when you don't have access. Hoss had a good suggestion with "hornplayer.com". If you see something you like there, the seller will generally ship the horn, after receiving a check for the purchase price from you, with the understanding that if you don't want it, you ship it back at your expense and he/she sends you back your money upon receipt of the horn. Don't know where you live, but if you are within driving distance of a major city there should be a larger instrument store where you can try a variety of horns...new and used (placed on consignment). In the San Francisco Bay area, Best Music in Oakland is the place to go; I purchased a used Yamaha 862 there years ago for a very reasonable price. Call these big stores before traveling there and they will certainly tell you what they have at that moment. I think I've heard that "The Woodwind & The Brasswind" (www.wwandbw.com) will accept new instruments back purchased from them, within a couple weeks of the purchase, if found to be unsuitable. Of course they must be in original new condition, and their policies related to this should be checked with them. However, I agree with Hoss that your best value is to find a used horn. This both keeps your costs down and allows for a good resale price (compared to what you paid for it) if and when you want to sell it. One note about Atkinson horns...I hear the custom horns he builds are very good, but that he also imports cheap, student line horns to sell to students not wanting to pay too much. I hear these are to be avoided. I also strongly suggest that since you are relatively new to this activity, you get an experienced hornist involved...one that knows the various makes, their general playing characteristics, and their idiosyncrasies, and what questions to ask the sellers of used horns. Fred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Horn Buying Hello everyone, Im thinking of buying a horn for myself, Im a freshman in HS and I am playing on a repaired Holton H180 (in 8th grade i was playing on a Holton H179, the valves sounded like a percusion section.). I take lessons and such. I wanna buy a new french horn for myself, so I dont have to worry about the school taking it, and I dont want to play on something people have treated like crap. I was thinking of buying a Conn 8D with gold or rosebrass and a detachable bell, what model would that make it? Or a Hans Hoyer horn, (my lesson teacher is using one, and I lover her sound), but I dont know which model. There is one problem, my local music store doesnt have horns on shelf, or in there stock (there not gonna have $3000 instruments on shelf when they are not in demand down here.), so what they do is, they special order them for the serious customer, so I cant try them out. Niether can my lesson teacher. Are Conn 8D's and Hoyer Horns more consistent from horn to horn (same brand and model) now days, with our technology? Should I special order one? What are the chances it plays like a piece of crap? Also what other models of horns from different brands do you recommend that are good (and are very consistent from horn to horn, without trying them out) , and are within a $2500-$4200 price range? Your comments and advice will greatly be appreciated. Michael K. P.S. How are the Conn 8D horns nowadays (new, not old ones) and the Hoyers? And what model would a Conn 8D be if I wanted it in gold or rosebrass, with a detachable bell? Thank you. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Buying
Hi, If you have from 25-4200 to spend don't buy new. You can get an awesome horn for a very reasonable price. Checkout Hornplayer.net usually everyone dealing on there is legit- the majority are pro/semi pro/ or major enthusiast so the horns are good and they want to sell a horn..not just window shop. Look at some yamaha horns- they are the most consistant out of all the factories. Check out Atkinsonhorns.com Mark is a reputable Custom horn builder. i bet for around 4000 you could get a custom horn made for you. Check out Brassarts.com Dave Weiner will hook you up with anything and everything at a reasonable price. Thanks, Josh Johnson Also, don't limit yourself to a Kruspe wrap- you might have a lot of interest in a geyer horn. Aim me at Jjhornman or Jjhosshorn if you'd like more advice, Best of wishes, Hoss ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Buying
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