Re: [HOT] How can I keep English language in Openstreetmap ?
Retrieve name:en tags where available. Paul MALLET 2015-07-16 10:49 GMT+02:00 Ahasanul Hoque hoque.aha...@gmail.com: Hi all, Would you please help me out regarding this ? I want to make a map keeping the OSM as base layer where there should be in Englaish names not the local. Is it possible to turn off the local language ? Thanks in advance. Ahasan Dhaka, Bangladesh Please, Consider the Environment before Printing this Mail !!! ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
John For highways I would say yes to your question. They are quite simple functional infrastructure units - it is what they service that becomes more complicated. So for highways one has paths which are purely pedestrian (or perhaps mountain byc in rural areas ?); tracks only for farm vehicles and four wheel drive; and then various grades of other with, as you suggest, unclassified between small settlement areas and then the normal range of others depending on the size of residential areas that they are linking. I know from the correspondence that there is a concern that links to agricultural land or forestry only is separately identified. In that case I would suggest Farmtrack or similar. Tracks are valid between individual buildings, but would also pass through farmland, by for people on the ground it would be necessary easily to identify tracks that are going nowhere in habitation terms. As mentioned above, it is what this infrastructure serves that gets more complicated. What appears as fairly dense areas of buildings, but scattered over mountain sides such as Nepal or rural areas in Africa I would have trouble identifying as residential areas, no more than I would identify the scatter of farmsteads in Wales, (where I live). But in all these circumstances these scatters of rural buildings would be serviced by villages and small towns. It is inevitable that tags should get more and more complicated as time goes on, in much the same was as, say, the filing system on my computer has become. A sub-directory is set up, then a new item comes in, and this is then divided into more sub-directories, and so on, At some stage it is necessary to step back and review the whole thing, and I feel that this is the current case with tags. However, I am conscious that I am new to this and that the reasoning behind things are unknown to me. Andrew -- Andrew Patterson The information contained in this e-mail and any files transmitted with it is confidential and intended for the addressee only. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Ralf Stephan gtrw...@gmail.com a ?crit : So, essentially, only locals have full knowledge and every tag by nonlocals is preliminary? Well... usual (or historical?) recommendation for OSM contributions is ground check ;-) Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] How can I keep English language in Openstreetmap ?
Hi all, Would you please help me out regarding this ? I want to make a map keeping the OSM as base layer where there should be in Englaish names not the local. Is it possible to turn off the local language ? Thanks in advance. Ahasan Dhaka, Bangladesh Please, Consider the Environment before Printing this Mail !!! ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. Perhaps we can have general regional guidelines and then someone gets charged with developing a country-specific taxonomy for any major activations? Best, Robert On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Given that HOT mappers often do not have a PhD in African road classification and it appears to be subjective perhaps we can come up with a useful simplified interpretation or guidelines for inexperienced mappers? My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 00:23, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: I am adding to the discussion of highway tagging in West Africa. All of the projects that mapped highways in West Africa that I have seen or been a part of followed the guidance of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa). This past Spring I worked with some colleagues to create this tracing guide (http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/liberia.html) for mapping River Cress and Grand Gedeh Counties in West Africa. The tracing guide was based on our interpretation of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. This tracing guide is quite good, and mappers appreciated the pictures and GIFs that show examples. When building the tracing guide I came to a few conclusions. When reading the Highway Tag Africa wiki page I felt it have been wrong for me to alter the instructions. It would have resulted in inconsistent tagging in the region. I trust that a good amount of research and discussion has taken place to get it to the point it is now. - The guidance in the wiki could have been clearer. Although I notice that is has improved since even a few months ago, there are now some example pictures in there. - It is difficult to teach someone how to classify highways. There are eight types and often it is not clear when deciding between primary, secondary, tertiary, and unclassified highways because the only difference between them is the subjective size of the urban areas that are connected by them. - The unclassified road type was unintuitive the first time I read the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. To me unclassified means something that has no classification. Yet in the Highway Tag Africa wiki page it clearly has a classification. I think the term ‘unclassified’ means something else in other places though. I think having pre-set tags available as a plugins to iD editor should be a HOT goal, if it isn’t already. I don’t think we need there to be a universal tagging set. People who set-up projects on the Tasking manager could define the tags that fit best for the project. Although I think it would be useful to further standardize some tags across many geographical areas; it is important to maintain the flexibility for the geographical areas that need unique tags. Thanks, Tom G ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
That makes sense. Would you suggest putting road classification into the validation stage then? Or have a classification stage in between? On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. Perhaps we can have general regional guidelines and then someone gets charged with developing a country-specific taxonomy for any major activations? Best, Robert On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Given that HOT mappers often do not have a PhD in African road classification and it appears to be subjective perhaps we can come up with a useful simplified interpretation or guidelines for inexperienced mappers? My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 00:23, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: I am adding to the discussion of highway tagging in West Africa. All of the projects that mapped highways in West Africa that I have seen or been a part of followed the guidance of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa). This past Spring I worked with some colleagues to create this tracing guide (http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/liberia.html) for mapping River Cress and Grand Gedeh Counties in West Africa. The tracing guide was based on our interpretation of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. This tracing guide is quite good, and mappers appreciated the pictures and GIFs that show examples. When building the tracing guide I came to a few conclusions. When reading the Highway Tag Africa wiki page I felt it have been wrong for me to alter the instructions. It would have resulted in inconsistent tagging in the region. I trust that a good amount of research and discussion has taken place to get it to the point it is now. - The guidance in the wiki could have been clearer. Although I notice that is has improved since even a few months ago, there are now some example pictures in there. - It is difficult to teach someone how to classify highways. There are eight types and often it is not clear when deciding between primary, secondary, tertiary, and unclassified highways because the only difference between them is the subjective size of the urban areas that are connected by them. - The unclassified road type was unintuitive the first time I read the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. To me unclassified means something that has no classification. Yet in the Highway Tag Africa wiki page it clearly has a classification. I think the term ‘unclassified’ means something else in other places though. I think having pre-set tags available as a plugins to iD editor should be a HOT goal, if it isn’t already. I don’t think we need there to be a universal tagging set. People who set-up projects on the Tasking manager could define the tags that fit best for the project. Although I think it would be useful to further standardize some tags across many geographical areas; it is important to maintain the flexibility for the geographical areas that need unique tags. Thanks, Tom G ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Validation can mean many things, in a HOT context to me it means going in and correcting the glaring errors. Highway classification or missclassification is subjective as has been stated so I would not include putting the correct tags on Primary / secondary / tertiary as part of the primary role of the validator. I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. I work with three others who do validation, there aren't many of us who do it if you look through the projects there are very few that are validated completely and setting the bar to high means fewer people will do it. Personally I think we need more validation whether that should be two passes, one a less experienced validator and one a more careful validation is one open to debate. On one project I did a quick and dirty validation that picked up 80% of the errors and it was suggested that I should have done a more complete validation. It's a judgement call, my feeling was the quality and reliability of the mapping was better after a quick and dirty validation which was not to my normal validation standard than without it. In my opinion OSM mapping with no resource constraints often is done to a high quality standard, in HOT mapping we don't have enough trained and experienced mappers and validators to map to the standard we would like to have the maps mapped to in the time that the clients would like the map. So what can we simplify? Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 09:13, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: That makes sense. Would you suggest putting road classification into the validation stage then? Or have a classification stage in between? On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. Perhaps we can have general regional guidelines and then someone gets charged with developing a country-specific taxonomy for any major activations? Best, Robert On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Given that HOT mappers often do not have a PhD in African road classification and it appears to be subjective perhaps we can come up with a useful simplified interpretation or guidelines for inexperienced mappers? My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 00:23, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: I am adding to the discussion of highway tagging in West Africa. All of the projects that mapped highways in West Africa that I have seen or been a part of followed the guidance of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa). This past Spring I worked with some colleagues to create this tracing guide (http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/liberia.html) for mapping River Cress and Grand Gedeh Counties in West Africa. The tracing guide was based on our interpretation of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. This tracing guide is quite good, and mappers appreciated the pictures and GIFs that show examples. When building the tracing guide I came to a few conclusions. When reading the Highway Tag Africa wiki page I felt it have been wrong for me to alter the instructions. It would have resulted in inconsistent tagging in the region. I trust that a good amount of research and discussion has taken place to get it to the point it is now. - The guidance in the wiki could have been clearer. Although I notice that is has improved since even a few months ago, there are now some example pictures in there. - It is difficult to teach someone how to classify highways. There are eight types and often it is not clear when deciding between primary, secondary, tertiary,
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
a narrow, non-motorized vehicle path as a 'path' There are a lot of motorcycles around in these areas, small ones that are economical for gas, they use the paths. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 09:43, Eric Christensen e...@christensenplace.us wrote: On Thursday, July 16, 2015 09:32:38 AM john whelan wrote: I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. It's interesting that you say that as there is a discussion happening on OSM- Talk, and actually in the person's diary[0], where they point out that 'path' seems to be very generic and that we should be aiming to make the description of these ways more specific. While I agree with the thought I think there might be better ways of going about it. I'm not advocating either way but I wonder if you'd agree that people mapping using aerial pictures should tag what appears to be a narrow, non-motorized vehicle path as a 'path' and let the person on the ground update that information with the more specific use (i.e. footpath, track, etc)? [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny/diary/35389 (scroll down a bit to highway=path, highway=footway problems) --Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Given that HOT mappers often do not have a PhD in African road classification and it appears to be subjective perhaps we can come up with a useful simplified interpretation or guidelines for inexperienced mappers? My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 00:23, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: I am adding to the discussion of highway tagging in West Africa. All of the projects that mapped highways in West Africa that I have seen or been a part of followed the guidance of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa). This past Spring I worked with some colleagues to create this tracing guide (http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/liberia.html) for mapping River Cress and Grand Gedeh Counties in West Africa. The tracing guide was based on our interpretation of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. This tracing guide is quite good, and mappers appreciated the pictures and GIFs that show examples. When building the tracing guide I came to a few conclusions. When reading the Highway Tag Africa wiki page I felt it have been wrong for me to alter the instructions. It would have resulted in inconsistent tagging in the region. I trust that a good amount of research and discussion has taken place to get it to the point it is now. - The guidance in the wiki could have been clearer. Although I notice that is has improved since even a few months ago, there are now some example pictures in there. - It is difficult to teach someone how to classify highways. There are eight types and often it is not clear when deciding between primary, secondary, tertiary, and unclassified highways because the only difference between them is the subjective size of the urban areas that are connected by them. - The unclassified road type was unintuitive the first time I read the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. To me unclassified means something that has no classification. Yet in the Highway Tag Africa wiki page it clearly has a classification. I think the term ‘unclassified’ means something else in other places though. I think having pre-set tags available as a plugins to iD editor should be a HOT goal, if it isn’t already. I don’t think we need there to be a universal tagging set. People who set-up projects on the Tasking manager could define the tags that fit best for the project. Although I think it would be useful to further standardize some tags across many geographical areas; it is important to maintain the flexibility for the geographical areas that need unique tags. Thanks, Tom G ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. Perhaps we can have general regional guidelines and then someone gets charged with developing a country-specific taxonomy for any major activations? Best, Robert On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Given that HOT mappers often do not have a PhD in African road classification and it appears to be subjective perhaps we can come up with a useful simplified interpretation or guidelines for inexperienced mappers? My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 00:23, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: I am adding to the discussion of highway tagging in West Africa. All of the projects that mapped highways in West Africa that I have seen or been a part of followed the guidance of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa). This past Spring I worked with some colleagues to create this tracing guide (http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/liberia.html) for mapping River Cress and Grand Gedeh Counties in West Africa. The tracing guide was based on our interpretation of the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. This tracing guide is quite good, and mappers appreciated the pictures and GIFs that show examples. When building the tracing guide I came to a few conclusions. When reading the Highway Tag Africa wiki page I felt it have been wrong for me to alter the instructions. It would have resulted in inconsistent tagging in the region. I trust that a good amount of research and discussion has taken place to get it to the point it is now. - The guidance in the wiki could have been clearer. Although I notice that is has improved since even a few months ago, there are now some example pictures in there. - It is difficult to teach someone how to classify highways. There are eight types and often it is not clear when deciding between primary, secondary, tertiary, and unclassified highways because the only difference between them is the subjective size of the urban areas that are connected by them. - The unclassified road type was unintuitive the first time I read the Highway Tag Africa wiki page. To me unclassified means something that has no classification. Yet in the Highway Tag Africa wiki page it clearly has a classification. I think the term ‘unclassified’ means something else in other places though. I think having pre-set tags available as a plugins to iD editor should be a HOT goal, if it isn’t already. I don’t think we need there to be a universal tagging set. People who set-up projects on the Tasking manager could define the tags that fit best for the project. Although I think it would be useful to further standardize some tags across many geographical areas; it is important to maintain the flexibility for the geographical areas that need unique tags. Thanks, Tom G ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. So, highway=road is made for such a problem. Later, contributors with better local knowledge can make/improve classification. And it is easier to detect roads needing classification if they are tagged with road instead of unclassified. Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] OSM Training workshop in Malawi
Thanks alot mates. Tyler, I will surely do that. On 7/15/15, Tyler Radford tyler.radf...@hotosm.org wrote: Hi Justin, That's great, and thanks for sharing with the community. If you use Twitter, feel free to tweet @hotosm before and during the workshop so we can help get you some added publicity. Best, Tyler *Tyler Radford* Interim Executive Director email: tyler.radf...@hotosm.org U.S. mobile: +1 617.285.2009 *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team * *Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response Economic Development* web http://hotosm.org/ | twitter https://twitter.com/hotosm | facebook https://www.facebook.com/hotosm | donate http://hotosm.org/donate On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:28 PM, Justin Temwani Ng'ambi justinngambi...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, There will be an OSM Training workshop at Chancellor College starting from 31 July 2015. This has been organised by HOT interns in Malawi. You are welcome to the function. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
On Thursday, July 16, 2015 09:51:16 AM john whelan wrote: a narrow, non-motorized vehicle path as a 'path' There are a lot of motorcycles around in these areas, small ones that are economical for gas, they use the paths. Good point! The Wiki defines a path as a generic path, either multi-use or unspecified usage, open to all non-motorized vehicles.[0] I wonder if there is a better way to describe a way that can be used for motorcycles but not a car or truck or if we should broaden our definition of 'path' and then allow more specific tags to come later by on the ground surveys. [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpath --Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Some great input is being provided. Primary / secondary / tertiary highways are not encountered very often in a typical HOT project by the average mapper. Therefore even though they are very important to classify and may be mentioned in the training material, they should not be emphasized. Classifying these highway types is better suited for a ‘meta’ task where a mapper would look at a larger zoomed out area and gain better context for classifying these highway types by analyzing the sizes of the urban areas that are connected by them. In addition, on the ground validation would always be great to have as well. I agree that more validation is greatly needed on HOT projects in general. I think the greatest challenge is how to accomplish this objective; there are simply not enough people doing it. Maybe we can incentivize validation with badges. I think if HOT wants to endorse regional tagging schemes for HOT projects, then West Africa or Africa in general would be a good place to start. Thanks, Tom G On Jul 16, 2015, at 9:32 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Validation can mean many things, in a HOT context to me it means going in and correcting the glaring errors. Highway classification or missclassification is subjective as has been stated so I would not include putting the correct tags on Primary / secondary / tertiary as part of the primary role of the validator. I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. I work with three others who do validation, there aren't many of us who do it if you look through the projects there are very few that are validated completely and setting the bar to high means fewer people will do it. Personally I think we need more validation whether that should be two passes, one a less experienced validator and one a more careful validation is one open to debate. On one project I did a quick and dirty validation that picked up 80% of the errors and it was suggested that I should have done a more complete validation. It's a judgement call, my feeling was the quality and reliability of the mapping was better after a quick and dirty validation which was not to my normal validation standard than without it. In my opinion OSM mapping with no resource constraints often is done to a high quality standard, in HOT mapping we don't have enough trained and experienced mappers and validators to map to the standard we would like to have the maps mapped to in the time that the clients would like the map. So what can we simplify? Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 09:13, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com mailto:rban...@gmail.com wrote: That makes sense. Would you suggest putting road classification into the validation stage then? Or have a classification stage in between? On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com mailto:rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. Perhaps we can have general regional guidelines and then someone gets charged with developing a country-specific taxonomy for any major activations? Best, Robert On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:44 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Given that HOT mappers often do not have a PhD in African road classification and it appears to be subjective perhaps we can come up with a useful simplified interpretation or guidelines for inexperienced mappers? My thoughts would be to suggest that mappers in general ignore primary, secondary, tertiary, classifications, if the road is mapped then a local or classification specialist can tag with one of these if required. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 00:23, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com mailto:tger...@gmail.com wrote: I am adding to the discussion
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
For sure, surface=* (at least paved/unpaved) is a key information on such roads. One should encourages contributors to use it. Indeed, aerial views don't always allow distinction. I saw several asphalt roads with dust on it that look like ground from space. Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: • rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and • detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: Some great input is being provided. Primary / secondary / tertiary highways are not encountered very often in a typical HOT project by the average mapper. Therefore even though they are very important to classify and may be mentioned in the training material, they should not be emphasized. Classifying these highway types is better suited for a ‘meta’ task where a mapper would look at a larger zoomed out area and gain better context for classifying these highway types by analyzing the sizes of the urban areas that are connected by them. In addition, on the ground validation would always be great to have as well. I agree that more validation is greatly needed on HOT projects in general. I think the greatest challenge is how to accomplish this objective; there are simply not enough people doing it. Maybe we can incentivize validation with badges. I think if HOT wants to endorse regional tagging schemes for HOT projects, then West Africa or Africa in general would be a good place to start. Thanks, Tom G On Jul 16, 2015, at 9:32 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Validation can mean many things, in a HOT context to me it means going in and correcting the glaring errors. Highway classification or missclassification is subjective as has been stated so I would not include putting the correct tags on Primary / secondary / tertiary as part of the primary role of the validator. I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. I work with three others who do validation, there aren't many of us who do it if you look through the projects there are very few that are validated completely and setting the bar to high means fewer people will do it. Personally I think we need more validation whether that should be two passes, one a less experienced validator and one a more careful validation is one open to debate. On one project I did a quick and dirty validation that picked up 80% of the errors and it was suggested that I should have done a more complete validation. It's a judgement call, my feeling was the quality and reliability of the mapping was better after a quick and dirty validation which was not to my normal validation standard than without it. In my opinion OSM mapping with no resource constraints often is done to a high quality standard, in HOT mapping we don't have enough trained and experienced mappers and validators to map to the standard we would like to have the maps mapped to in the time that the clients would like the map. So what can we simplify? Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 09:13, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: That makes sense. Would you suggest putting road classification into the validation stage then? Or have a classification stage in between? On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. Perhaps we can have general regional guidelines and then someone gets charged with developing a country-specific taxonomy for any major activations? Best, Robert
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Which road attribute are you attempting to record? Surface type Width Number of lanes Type of vehicle Access control (toll, etc.) Type of user (farmer, commuter) Type of destination (farm, village, city, woodlot) Owner (state, logging company, village) Seasonality (all weather, 4wd, dry season) Steepness Straightness Other It seems that some of the confusion stems from trying to choose one term to encompass all possible attributes combinations. You might need to apply more than one attribute per road (the list above). Or define common attribute sets to cover typical situations (primary, secondary, etc. Or interstate, regional, local, personal). The difficulty with the latter is getting a common understanding of the attribute set for each umbrella term. Every feature should be tagged as Validated=yes/no. A good data dictionary will clearly distinguish between a Feature Type and that feature's attributes. It is difficult to ad hoc a DD once the project is underway. Good luck! . . . . . Cheers . . . . . Spring Harrison, Canada Samsung Tab 4 On Jul 16, 2015 7:31 AM, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: Some great input is being provided. Primary / secondary / tertiary highways are not encountered very often in a typical HOT project by the average mapper. Therefore even though they are very important to classify and may be mentioned in the training material, they should not be emphasized. Classifying these highway types is better suited for a ‘meta’ task where a mapper would look at a larger zoomed out area and gain better context for classifying these highway types by analyzing the sizes of the urban areas that are connected by them. In addition, on the ground validation would always be great to have as well. I agree that more validation is greatly needed on HOT projects in general. I think the greatest challenge is how to accomplish this objective; there are simply not enough people doing it. Maybe we can incentivize validation with badges. I think if HOT wants to endorse regional tagging schemes for HOT projects, then West Africa or Africa in general would be a good place to start. Thanks, Tom G On Jul 16, 2015, at 9:32 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Validation can mean many things, in a HOT context to me it means going in and correcting the glaring errors. Highway classification or missclassification is subjective as has been stated so I would not include putting the correct tags on Primary / secondary / tertiary as part of the primary role of the validator. I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. I work with three others who do validation, there aren't many of us who do it if you look through the projects there are very few that are validated completely and setting the bar to high means fewer people will do it. Personally I think we need more validation whether that should be two passes, one a less experienced validator and one a more careful validation is one open to debate. On one project I did a quick and dirty validation that picked up 80% of the errors and it was suggested that I should have done a more complete validation. It's a judgement call, my feeling was the quality and reliability of the mapping was better after a quick and dirty validation which was not to my normal validation standard than without it. In my opinion OSM mapping with no resource constraints often is done to a high quality standard, in HOT mapping we don't have enough trained and experienced mappers and validators to map to the standard we would like to have the maps mapped to in the time that the clients would like the map. So what can we simplify? Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 09:13, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: That makes sense. Would you suggest putting road classification into the validation stage then? Or have a classification stage in between? On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
I think a two tiered system would work well. Officialverified=yes perhaps? I don't think rendering is an issue. Certainly I've seen JOSM used to render or view maps on a lap top for an area. I was quite surprised but the person said an off line map was easily searchable and you could select and see all the tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 11:13, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net wrote: A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: • rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and • detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Thomas Gertin tger...@gmail.com wrote: Some great input is being provided. Primary / secondary / tertiary highways are not encountered very often in a typical HOT project by the average mapper. Therefore even though they are very important to classify and may be mentioned in the training material, they should not be emphasized. Classifying these highway types is better suited for a ‘meta’ task where a mapper would look at a larger zoomed out area and gain better context for classifying these highway types by analyzing the sizes of the urban areas that are connected by them. In addition, on the ground validation would always be great to have as well. I agree that more validation is greatly needed on HOT projects in general. I think the greatest challenge is how to accomplish this objective; there are simply not enough people doing it. Maybe we can incentivize validation with badges. I think if HOT wants to endorse regional tagging schemes for HOT projects, then West Africa or Africa in general would be a good place to start. Thanks, Tom G On Jul 16, 2015, at 9:32 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Validation can mean many things, in a HOT context to me it means going in and correcting the glaring errors. Highway classification or missclassification is subjective as has been stated so I would not include putting the correct tags on Primary / secondary / tertiary as part of the primary role of the validator. I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. I work with three others who do validation, there aren't many of us who do it if you look through the projects there are very few that are validated completely and setting the bar to high means fewer people will do it. Personally I think we need more validation whether that should be two passes, one a less experienced validator and one a more careful validation is one open to debate. On one project I did a quick and dirty validation that picked up 80% of the errors and it was suggested that I should have done a more complete validation. It's a judgement call, my feeling was the quality and reliability of the mapping was better after a quick and dirty validation which was not to my normal validation standard than without it. In my opinion OSM mapping with no resource constraints often is done to a high quality standard, in HOT mapping we don't have enough trained and experienced mappers and validators to map to the standard we would like to have the maps mapped to in the time that the clients would like the map. So what can we simplify? Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 09:13, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: That makes sense. Would you suggest putting road classification into the validation stage then? Or have a classification stage in between? On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The suggestion is not that Primary / secondary / tertiary should not be mapped, often when the HOT mappers start the major highways are tagged Primary / secondary / tertiary the suggestion is to simplify guidance to new or inexperienced mappers. 76% of HOT Nepal mappers mapped for an hour or two and that was it. I don't think we can afford to give them four hours training in how to classify a road, there would be no time left for mapping. For these sort of highways then map something and let someone else upgrade the tag to Primary / secondary / tertiary is my suggestion. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 08:55, Robert Banick rban...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
Why not the source tag? If it indicates survey or local knowledge instead of or as well as remote imagery, credibility is improved. Tom Taylor On 16/07/2015 1:02 PM, john whelan wrote: I think a two tiered system would work well. Officialverified=yes perhaps? I don't think rendering is an issue. Certainly I've seen JOSM used to render or view maps on a lap top for an area. I was quite surprised but the person said an off line map was easily searchable and you could select and see all the tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 11:13, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net mailto:st...@worldvista.net wrote: A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: •rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and •detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve ... ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
On Thursday, July 16, 2015 08:55:53 AM Robert Banick wrote: Speaking as a humanitarian GISer who's used HOT road layers quite a bit in a few crises, the road classifications really help. Primary / secondary / tertiary are useful, albeit vey incomplete, measures of the importance of roads that we can use to eyeball transit times etc. I would be strongly against ignoring those classification tags. I do agree we need more consistency in how they're applied however. I wonder if you used (or if you feel that it would be useful) surface entries on these roads/paths that are being mapped. I know I added some surface entries when I was mapping parts of Columbia based on what I was seeing. I suspect a road classified as a primary route but is also dirt, or otherwise not paved, would make a difference in calculating route times and knowing what kind of vehicle would be best to send. --Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
On Thursday, July 16, 2015 09:32:38 AM john whelan wrote: I would say changing highway=pedestrian to highway=path in a rural area of West Africa would be part of validation. It's interesting that you say that as there is a discussion happening on OSM- Talk, and actually in the person's diary[0], where they point out that 'path' seems to be very generic and that we should be aiming to make the description of these ways more specific. While I agree with the thought I think there might be better ways of going about it. I'm not advocating either way but I wonder if you'd agree that people mapping using aerial pictures should tag what appears to be a narrow, non-motorized vehicle path as a 'path' and let the person on the ground update that information with the more specific use (i.e. footpath, track, etc)? [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny/diary/35389 (scroll down a bit to highway=path, highway=footway problems) --Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
One issue with using only a verified tag is that you would still have different tag definitions for rough/remote mapping vs detailed/verified mapping. That could be confusing. The current 24 detailed highway tags [1] might distill down to about 5-8 rough classification tags, depending on the country. (Though a verified tag could still be of use.) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway ~~Steve On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 2:42 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: No, sounds too simple and sensible. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 13:22, Tom Taylor tom.taylor.s...@gmail.com wrote: Why not the source tag? If it indicates survey or local knowledge instead of or as well as remote imagery, credibility is improved. Tom Taylor On 16/07/2015 1:02 PM, john whelan wrote: I think a two tiered system would work well. Officialverified=yes perhaps? I don't think rendering is an issue. Certainly I've seen JOSM used to render or view maps on a lap top for an area. I was quite surprised but the person said an off line map was easily searchable and you could select and see all the tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 11:13, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net mailto:st...@worldvista.net wrote: A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: •rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and •detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve ... ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
I like the idea of using the source tag for highways that are tagged for more importance than unclassified. As has been stated before most HOT mappers will be using a small subset of the highway tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 16:43, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net wrote: One issue with using only a verified tag is that you would still have different tag definitions for rough/remote mapping vs detailed/verified mapping. That could be confusing. The current 24 detailed highway tags [1] might distill down to about 5-8 rough classification tags, depending on the country. (Though a verified tag could still be of use.) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway ~~Steve On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 2:42 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: No, sounds too simple and sensible. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 13:22, Tom Taylor tom.taylor.s...@gmail.com wrote: Why not the source tag? If it indicates survey or local knowledge instead of or as well as remote imagery, credibility is improved. Tom Taylor On 16/07/2015 1:02 PM, john whelan wrote: I think a two tiered system would work well. Officialverified=yes perhaps? I don't think rendering is an issue. Certainly I've seen JOSM used to render or view maps on a lap top for an area. I was quite surprised but the person said an off line map was easily searchable and you could select and see all the tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 11:13, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net mailto:st...@worldvista.net wrote: A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: •rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and •detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve ... ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
No, sounds too simple and sensible. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 13:22, Tom Taylor tom.taylor.s...@gmail.com wrote: Why not the source tag? If it indicates survey or local knowledge instead of or as well as remote imagery, credibility is improved. Tom Taylor On 16/07/2015 1:02 PM, john whelan wrote: I think a two tiered system would work well. Officialverified=yes perhaps? I don't think rendering is an issue. Certainly I've seen JOSM used to render or view maps on a lap top for an area. I was quite surprised but the person said an off line map was easily searchable and you could select and see all the tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 11:13, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net mailto:st...@worldvista.net wrote: A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: •rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and •detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve ... ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
That’s a good point. The current definitions take a variety of attributes into account to define what type of highway it is (physical attributes of the highway, size of urban areas connected by highway, the type of use the highway is used for, and whether cars can travel on the highway). Looking at it from a data dictionary perspective it is better to have less highway types, and put some of the information used to define highway types into the highway attributes instead. Changing the tagging scheme and updating the existing features would be a really big undertaking though. -Tom G On Jul 16, 2015, at 10:17 AM, Springfield Harrison stellar...@gmail.com wrote: Which road attribute are you attempting to record? Surface type Width Number of lanes Type of vehicle Access control (toll, etc.) Type of user (farmer, commuter) Type of destination (farm, village, city, woodlot) Owner (state, logging company, village) Seasonality (all weather, 4wd, dry season) Steepness Straightness Other It seems that some of the confusion stems from trying to choose one term to encompass all possible attributes combinations. You might need to apply more than one attribute per road (the list above). Or define common attribute sets to cover typical situations (primary, secondary, etc. Or interstate, regional, local, personal). The difficulty with the latter is getting a common understanding of the attribute set for each umbrella term. Every feature should be tagged as Validated=yes/no. A good data dictionary will clearly distinguish between a Feature Type and that feature's attributes. It is difficult to ad hoc a DD once the project is underway. Good luck! . . . . . Cheers . . . . . Spring Harrison, Canada Samsung Tab 4 ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
The source tag is a good option to add for surveys or local knowledge. It has been used for the Malawi Flood Preparedness project (http://hotosm.org/projects/osm_community_mapping_for_flood_preparedness_in_malawi http://hotosm.org/projects/osm_community_mapping_for_flood_preparedness_in_malawi). If you look for example at this node (http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3057310198 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3057310198). You will see the tag ‘source:survey’ and also in the changeset you see the tag ‘source:Survey of 2014’. A two-tiered system might make things more confusing. However, I do think that adding a tag that specifies ‘uncertainty’ is a good idea. I e-mailed the tagging listserv earlier this year and they pointed me to the ‘fixme’ tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fixme http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fixme). I then created the Probable features wiki page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Probable_features https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Probable_features) that basically says the fixme tag can be used to specify that a feature needs additional validation. I would like to hear opinions on this, I haven't asked for any previously. Thanks, Tom G On Jul 16, 2015, at 12:22 PM, Tom Taylor tom.taylor.s...@gmail.com wrote: Why not the source tag? If it indicates survey or local knowledge instead of or as well as remote imagery, credibility is improved. Tom Taylor On 16/07/2015 1:02 PM, john whelan wrote: I think a two tiered system would work well. Officialverified=yes perhaps? I don't think rendering is an issue. Certainly I've seen JOSM used to render or view maps on a lap top for an area. I was quite surprised but the person said an off line map was easily searchable and you could select and see all the tags. Cheerio John On 16 July 2015 at 11:13, Steve Bower st...@worldvista.net mailto:st...@worldvista.net wrote: A fundamental problem is that the current road/path tagging scheme does not distinguish between: •rough tagging used for remote mapping during activations, and •detailed tagging based on local knowledge. Current tags are used for both, which leads to confusion since the custom activation definition may differ somewhat from the permanent definition. Also, there is future confusion since the level of detail (local knowledge) is not recorded. A 2-tier scheme could solve that, with separate tags for rough tagging, and detailed tags based on local knowledge. Another solution would be a separate tag recording the level of certainty or verification, but a 2-tier scheme might be easier to manage and to render. ~~Steve ... ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
On 7/16/2015 8:17 AM, Springfield Harrison wrote: Every feature should be tagged as Validated=yes/no. As a crowd-sourced project OSM doesn't have a concept of validated or official data. This is different than validation in the tasking manager, which is external, and is more about reviewing what are often new mappers to see that they understand what they're doing. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] paths, tracks and unclassified in West Africa
On 7/15/2015 5:40 AM, Ralf Stephan wrote: So, essentially, only locals have full knowledge and every tag by nonlocals is preliminary? It's the importance of the road that determines its classification, and a local will have a better idea of the classification than someone remote. The local will also have a better idea of the surface and/or tracktype, as that's easier to tell from the ground than from a photo or aerial imagery. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
