Re: [HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic Institute
Hello Vincent, I had 2 thoughts from the conversation: - if you are worried about online data disappearing, a good tool to help prevent that is https://archive.org/ if you haven't used it before, you can submit a URL and they just grab a copy of the content and keep it forever. It doesn't work for everything, some complex webpages end up broken on their copy, but it's a good way to ensure data remains online in the future. It's free, their goal is just to create a "history" of the internet, as a lot of it is very transient. I'm not sure about the licensing implications. It might be worth checking if the data you mentioned isn't already on it, maybe by looking at the Malian IGM site or the French ones a few years ago? - if you're not able to access the data in Mali, but it was created with EU public funds, you might be able to use freedom of information laws on the EU side (in France, it's called "demande d'accès à un document administratif", you can read more about it, in French, on https://madada.fr, it's free)(for full transparency, I helped setup the site). The gist of FOI is that any person can request data from public bodies, or organizations that do work on behalf of the public. By law, these organizations have to provide the data. In France, the law even says that any data shared this way must be open data (not sure about the licensing though). Obviously, if the data isn't there, it's useless, but if it is in some drawer somewhere, it might help. The OSM community has already used this process before to get data from some public bodies. Might be worth a try if you can't get it any other way. It's a slow process, but sometimes it works :) Good luck! Laurent On 3 April 2020 02:00:58 BST, Vincent Dawans wrote: >Thank you Enock and Jorieke for all that great information! > >I am glad that at the minimum the IGM is aware of the existence of the >OSM >community and that some local OSM volunteers were even involved. I will >definitely get in touch with them to see what help I might be able to >provide to encourage the IGM to release that data or at least part of >it. > >I have worked in the development sector long enough to know that these >seemingly absurd situations are unfortunately common. Not just with >geographic data but with all sorts of information. In an ideal world, >data >produced using public funds would of course be made publicly available >(as >is the case with some organizations -- the UN for instance if >particularly >good with this I think). This is especially true in the context of >developing countries where there is little possibility to monetize the >data >on a large scale anyway, so what happens most of the time is that the >information sits in a drawer somewhere and totally underused and then >forgotten overtime and no longer available. > >The problem lies in part at the origin of the financing, in this case >the >European Development Fund. Ideally a clear mandate could have been >given to >allow some of the data to be open source from the start. I don't think >the >situation is the result of bad intentions, just lack of awareness of >this >problem. I have some contact at the EU delegation in Bamako and will >also >try to get some information from them as to what policies are in place >regarding such matters as data sharing. > >Sincerely, > >Vincent Dawans > >On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:03 AM wrote: > >> Send HOT mailing list submissions to >> hot@openstreetmap.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> hot-requ...@openstreetmap.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> hot-ow...@openstreetmap.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of HOT digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic >> Institute (Vincent Dawans) >>2. Re: Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian >> Geographic Institute (Enock Seth Nyamador) >>3. Re: Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian >> Geographic Institute (Jorieke Vyncke) >> >> >> >-- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:51:03 -0700 >> From: Vincent Dawans >> To: hot@openstreetmap.org >> Subject: [HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian >> Geogra
Re: [HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic Institute
Thank you Enock and Jorieke for all that great information! I am glad that at the minimum the IGM is aware of the existence of the OSM community and that some local OSM volunteers were even involved. I will definitely get in touch with them to see what help I might be able to provide to encourage the IGM to release that data or at least part of it. I have worked in the development sector long enough to know that these seemingly absurd situations are unfortunately common. Not just with geographic data but with all sorts of information. In an ideal world, data produced using public funds would of course be made publicly available (as is the case with some organizations -- the UN for instance if particularly good with this I think). This is especially true in the context of developing countries where there is little possibility to monetize the data on a large scale anyway, so what happens most of the time is that the information sits in a drawer somewhere and totally underused and then forgotten overtime and no longer available. The problem lies in part at the origin of the financing, in this case the European Development Fund. Ideally a clear mandate could have been given to allow some of the data to be open source from the start. I don't think the situation is the result of bad intentions, just lack of awareness of this problem. I have some contact at the EU delegation in Bamako and will also try to get some information from them as to what policies are in place regarding such matters as data sharing. Sincerely, Vincent Dawans On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:03 AM wrote: > Send HOT mailing list submissions to > hot@openstreetmap.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > hot-requ...@openstreetmap.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > hot-ow...@openstreetmap.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of HOT digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic > Institute (Vincent Dawans) >2. Re: Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian > Geographic Institute (Enock Seth Nyamador) >3. Re: Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian > Geographic Institute (Jorieke Vyncke) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:51:03 -0700 > From: Vincent Dawans > To: hot@openstreetmap.org > Subject: [HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian > Geographic Institute > Message-ID: > < > calisao8gv8etno9i+uqyrpptxs_ecsncmq0d5cjfpujcvbo...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi, > > I have been working with a local NGO in Mali for about 10 years, in the > Kayes region (west side of the country). Over the years we have added to > openstreetmap the names of the villages we work in based on local > knowledge. > > About a year ago I became aware of a mapping effort by the French > Geographic Institute that remapped the country from 2012 to 2016. This was > funded by the European Development Fund (EDF). The end result > produced printed maps at 1/20 with quite a bit of details, with a scan > available online at http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ > > There is a LOT of detailed information here, including the localization and > names of villages across the country, many of which are not currently on > openstreetmap. Also there is a lot of details on rivers, etc. It is > actually quite impressive. Unfortunately the web interface only allows to > explore the map and see the underlying data one object at a time (by > selecting specific layers for villages for instance). The main website has > a link to a “geocatalogue” from which data could arguably be downloaded but > unfortunately the side doesn’t load. http://www.igm-mali.ml/geocatalogue/ > > There is a presentation (in French) of the project on the website of the > French Geographic Institute: > https://www.ignfi.fr/fr/portfolio-item/cartographie-mali/ > > I have contacted the people from the French Geographic Institute but they > told me the project is closed and all the data is with their Malian > counterpart. Since the “geocatalogue” is no longer online (probably for > technical reasons), I suspect it will be a challenge to get accessed to > that data. Considering the work was funded with public money (EDF), I am > thinking maybe it was published somewhere else? I looked on > https://data.humdata.org/ and it is not there. I will keep looking... > > I can tell you
Re: [HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic Institute
Hi Vincent, I was in Mali in 2015-2016 and did see this great data collection happening. The IGM (Institut Geographique du Mali) was behind this effort, indeed sponsored by the EU and France I think. The data is indeed owned by the IGM, I thought the plan was also to sell this data. It was certainly not available for usage on OSM. :) The absurdity of the situation was also that several members of the OSM community in Mali (Makan, Doubassin, Karim, etc.) were working as surveyors for the IGM to collect all this data, but couldn't edit this on OSM for their own usage. Those folks were basically doing in their free time the same again to add data on OSM. Besides this, some of the staff of the IGM were really supportive to the OSM Mali community and gave them access to their spaces to come and map on OSM. So I would say, best to get in touch with the OSM Mali community if you are not already. Enock has just given you some core members' contacts. Best wishes, Jorieke Op do 2 apr. 2020 om 01:05 schreef Enock Seth Nyamador : > Interesting and very good data source. Looping in @Nathalie Sidibe > @Araba Coulibaly @Emmanuel > Bama in Mali. The scanned map is copyrighted to > IGN, I believe they are the best institution to talk to. > > Best, > Enock > > Le mer. 1 avr. 2020 à 23:52, Vincent Dawans a écrit : > >> Hi, >> >> I have been working with a local NGO in Mali for about 10 years, in the >> Kayes region (west side of the country). Over the years we have added to >> openstreetmap the names of the villages we work in based on local knowledge. >> >> About a year ago I became aware of a mapping effort by the French >> Geographic Institute that remapped the country from 2012 to 2016. This was >> funded by the European Development Fund (EDF). The end result >> produced printed maps at 1/20 with quite a bit of details, with a scan >> available online at http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ >> >> There is a LOT of detailed information here, including the localization >> and names of villages across the country, many of which are not currently >> on openstreetmap. Also there is a lot of details on rivers, etc. It is >> actually quite impressive. Unfortunately the web interface only allows to >> explore the map and see the underlying data one object at a time (by >> selecting specific layers for villages for instance). The main website has >> a link to a “geocatalogue” from which data could arguably be downloaded but >> unfortunately the side doesn’t load. http://www.igm-mali.ml/geocatalogue/ >> >> There is a presentation (in French) of the project on the website of the >> French Geographic Institute: >> https://www.ignfi.fr/fr/portfolio-item/cartographie-mali/ >> >> I have contacted the people from the French Geographic Institute but they >> told me the project is closed and all the data is with their Malian >> counterpart. Since the “geocatalogue” is no longer online (probably for >> technical reasons), I suspect it will be a challenge to get accessed to >> that data. Considering the work was funded with public money (EDF), I am >> thinking maybe it was published somewhere else? I looked on >> https://data.humdata.org/ and it is not there. I will keep looking... >> >> I can tell you that locally people do not even really know that these >> maps exist. Some paper maps might have been printed and distributed in >> Bamako, but it is not the best way to disseminate that information in the >> rest of the country. Openstreetmap is definitely better for that. It is a >> shame that all that work was done and barely used. Still I will try to have >> my Malian colleagues contact their local Geographic Institute but I know it >> is going to be a slow process. >> >> Is anybody in the HOT community aware of that mapping effort that took >> place in Mali? Is it typical for that kind of publicly funded project to >> NOT share their data with the HOT community? >> >> Still the data is available “manually” from >> http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ (as long as the site is up). What it >> not clear to me is whether I can legally use that data to update >> openstreetmap manually. Considering this was funded with public money, >> would the information be considered public domain? >> >> Any help/pointers is appreciated since mapping is not my main area of >> expertise. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Vincent Dawans >> Senior Technical Advisor >> Virtue Ventures >> >> ___ >> HOT mailing list >> HOT@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> > > > -- > -Enock > ___ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic Institute
Interesting and very good data source. Looping in @Nathalie Sidibe @Araba Coulibaly @Emmanuel Bama in Mali. The scanned map is copyrighted to IGN, I believe they are the best institution to talk to. Best, Enock Le mer. 1 avr. 2020 à 23:52, Vincent Dawans a écrit : > Hi, > > I have been working with a local NGO in Mali for about 10 years, in the > Kayes region (west side of the country). Over the years we have added to > openstreetmap the names of the villages we work in based on local knowledge. > > About a year ago I became aware of a mapping effort by the French > Geographic Institute that remapped the country from 2012 to 2016. This was > funded by the European Development Fund (EDF). The end result > produced printed maps at 1/20 with quite a bit of details, with a scan > available online at http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ > > There is a LOT of detailed information here, including the localization > and names of villages across the country, many of which are not currently > on openstreetmap. Also there is a lot of details on rivers, etc. It is > actually quite impressive. Unfortunately the web interface only allows to > explore the map and see the underlying data one object at a time (by > selecting specific layers for villages for instance). The main website has > a link to a “geocatalogue” from which data could arguably be downloaded but > unfortunately the side doesn’t load. http://www.igm-mali.ml/geocatalogue/ > > There is a presentation (in French) of the project on the website of the > French Geographic Institute: > https://www.ignfi.fr/fr/portfolio-item/cartographie-mali/ > > I have contacted the people from the French Geographic Institute but they > told me the project is closed and all the data is with their Malian > counterpart. Since the “geocatalogue” is no longer online (probably for > technical reasons), I suspect it will be a challenge to get accessed to > that data. Considering the work was funded with public money (EDF), I am > thinking maybe it was published somewhere else? I looked on > https://data.humdata.org/ and it is not there. I will keep looking... > > I can tell you that locally people do not even really know that these maps > exist. Some paper maps might have been printed and distributed in Bamako, > but it is not the best way to disseminate that information in the rest of > the country. Openstreetmap is definitely better for that. It is a shame > that all that work was done and barely used. Still I will try to have my > Malian colleagues contact their local Geographic Institute but I know it is > going to be a slow process. > > Is anybody in the HOT community aware of that mapping effort that took > place in Mali? Is it typical for that kind of publicly funded project to > NOT share their data with the HOT community? > > Still the data is available “manually” from > http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ (as long as the site is up). What it > not clear to me is whether I can legally use that data to update > openstreetmap manually. Considering this was funded with public money, > would the information be considered public domain? > > Any help/pointers is appreciated since mapping is not my main area of > expertise. > > Sincerely, > > Vincent Dawans > Senior Technical Advisor > Virtue Ventures > > ___ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > -- -Enock ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] Mali - Accessing and using data from the Malian Geographic Institute
Hi, I have been working with a local NGO in Mali for about 10 years, in the Kayes region (west side of the country). Over the years we have added to openstreetmap the names of the villages we work in based on local knowledge. About a year ago I became aware of a mapping effort by the French Geographic Institute that remapped the country from 2012 to 2016. This was funded by the European Development Fund (EDF). The end result produced printed maps at 1/20 with quite a bit of details, with a scan available online at http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ There is a LOT of detailed information here, including the localization and names of villages across the country, many of which are not currently on openstreetmap. Also there is a lot of details on rivers, etc. It is actually quite impressive. Unfortunately the web interface only allows to explore the map and see the underlying data one object at a time (by selecting specific layers for villages for instance). The main website has a link to a “geocatalogue” from which data could arguably be downloaded but unfortunately the side doesn’t load. http://www.igm-mali.ml/geocatalogue/ There is a presentation (in French) of the project on the website of the French Geographic Institute: https://www.ignfi.fr/fr/portfolio-item/cartographie-mali/ I have contacted the people from the French Geographic Institute but they told me the project is closed and all the data is with their Malian counterpart. Since the “geocatalogue” is no longer online (probably for technical reasons), I suspect it will be a challenge to get accessed to that data. Considering the work was funded with public money (EDF), I am thinking maybe it was published somewhere else? I looked on https://data.humdata.org/ and it is not there. I will keep looking... I can tell you that locally people do not even really know that these maps exist. Some paper maps might have been printed and distributed in Bamako, but it is not the best way to disseminate that information in the rest of the country. Openstreetmap is definitely better for that. It is a shame that all that work was done and barely used. Still I will try to have my Malian colleagues contact their local Geographic Institute but I know it is going to be a slow process. Is anybody in the HOT community aware of that mapping effort that took place in Mali? Is it typical for that kind of publicly funded project to NOT share their data with the HOT community? Still the data is available “manually” from http://www.igm-mali.ml/Visionneuse/ (as long as the site is up). What it not clear to me is whether I can legally use that data to update openstreetmap manually. Considering this was funded with public money, would the information be considered public domain? Any help/pointers is appreciated since mapping is not my main area of expertise. Sincerely, Vincent Dawans Senior Technical Advisor Virtue Ventures ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
